Super Episode 111 (15 October 2017)

[avasatu]

He was frozen in time. Breaking the stage would have done nothing, as evidenced by the rocks that were falling off the edge of the stage also being frozen.

Really, having a whole bunch of explosions go on around him to smash the stage away wouldn't have propelled him anywhere? Being frozen in time doesn't mean outside forces can't force you someplace else.

Says who? You'd have to be extremely powerful to physically affect he region inside the time prison, or you have to be Hit. You're just guessing. So am I, admittedly, but I think I see the writers' intent. Also, I'll repeat: "as evidenced by the rocks that were falling off the edge of the stage also being frozen."

Everyone complaining about this seems to believe they have a complete understanding of DB physics, and, to be honest, no one does. I think we can all agree on that. You don't think the writers thought of this? You sincerely don't believe Toriyama thought of this beforehand? The dialog even acknowledges it by having Hit tell the Saiyans not to interfere, for goodness sake.

There's clearly something there we aren't be spoon-fed, is all I'm saying. Call it bad writing if you want, but I think it's better to call it "unexplored." And to be honest, I extrapolated a working interpretation immediately, so I don't care for it to be explored further.

[kinisking]

I'm sorry to say... But the figthers are just fucking stupid.

Hit is stopping Jiren for some moment. Instead of just kicking him out... They are staying there doing nothing... Not talking about Cabba and Co cuz Hit told them to leave... But the other universes and Goku included who was right next to it.

Hell they could have even kicked out Hit as well

Most of them are nothing to even Hit, and Goku isn't fully recovered.

And that explains nothing. They still could use the chance to try it like the 2 guys tried after Jiren went on hiatus.

It was the best chance ever... But nope everyone is watching

Do people forget that a ssbkkx20 kick literally bounced off jirens head? Nothing anyone there would do could affect Jiren, even if he couldn't move.

[HeroR]

Hit had already resigned that he was fighting a losing battle when he took on Jiren. Hit says himself that the moment he couldn't end the fight in one hit, he was doomed to lose. He didn't want to drag down any other person along with him when he knew that was the case. Hit could help other people in the tournament because Jiren hadn't truly interjected himself into the tournament battle yet and hadn't made himself a figure of intimidation with how he fought against Goku.

The keyword in that statement is "killer". As in, technique(s) used to kill an opponent. Not in the context of "killer" as in "awesome" or "cool". Because by all means, Hit would have used those techniques. But he didn't because had developed them yet. And given the context of that statement, and what we know about tournament based rules in Dragon Ball, it's obviously referring the techniques that Hit uses as an assassin to kill his targets. And we've seen just the type of killing technique Hit can incorporate into battle or when he's doing his job. The techniques he performed against Jiren can't be classified as "killer" techniques because those techniques were used for more defensive, counterattack and evasive reasons in battle as supposed to being techniques used to kill an opponent. Which Hit isn't allowed to do in either tournament in the Champa arc or the Universal Survival arc.

He says he was doomed to lose when his last resort attack failed, not beforehand. Before that he has Jiren vulnerable and alone and with a simple smashing of the aforementioned stage, he could have very easily ringed Jiren out and made the ToP infinitely more winnable for U6. It literally makes no sense for a scene meant to showcase Hit's smarts & realization that he needs other people to paint him as an idiot and a lone wolf who ignores good tactical judgment.

Making phantom time clones or sealing someone in a time prison is by no mean a 100% lethal move, nor is him firing the various ranged attacks against Goku and Jiren. When they fight in the 70s episodes, Goku tells him they can go all out this time around and when they do, Hit showcases the very same techniques he has in the ToP, meaning they're moves he already had before but didn't use them because reasons.

Hit literally says, "The moment I couldn't end it in one hit, my loss was confirmed." Hit was obviously referring to the first time he used the Time-Skip against Jiren and tried to end the fight with the first blow and Jiren managing to countering it.

Hit goes all out against Goku by killing him with a single strike. I mean, Hit is an assassin. And If you ask a guy like him to go all out against you, don't be surprised if he ends up killing you instantly. Goku put the hit on himself for a reason. (No pun intended) Also, for the record, the only ability we see Hit utilise in his rematch with Goku is intangibility. And Hit doesn't even use that technique in the Tournament Of Power. He just used his good ol' Time-Skip.

He used intangibility against Dyspo and Jiren. He nearly rung Dyspo out with it and Jiren just no sold it by attacking the real Hit.

[HeroR]

Jiren being faster than time itself is really a ridiculous new feat in the franchise

Animation was good imo

I like how Hit landed a pretty good (that hole in his chest) blow on Jiren. It drives home the fact that yes, Jiren is fucking strong as strong can be, but he's not invincible.

Goku did it first in Episode 39.

[Lord Beerus]

He says he was doomed to lose when his last resort attack failed, not beforehand. Before that he has Jiren vulnerable and alone and with a simple smashing of the aforementioned stage, he could have very easily ringed Jiren out and made the ToP infinitely more winnable for U6. It literally makes no sense for a scene meant to showcase Hit's smarts & realization that he needs other people to paint him as an idiot and a lone wolf who ignores good tactical judgment.

Making phantom time clones or sealing someone in a time prison is by no mean a 100% lethal move, nor is him firing the various ranged attacks against Goku and Jiren. When they fight in the 70s episodes, Goku tells him they can go all out this time around and when they do, Hit showcases the very same techniques he has in the ToP, meaning they're moves he already had before but didn't use them because reasons.

Hit literally says, "The moment I couldn't end it in one hit, my loss was confirmed." Hit was obviously referring to the first time he used the Time-Skip against Jiren and tried to end the fight with the first blow and Jiren managing to countering it.

Hit goes all out against Goku by killing him with a single strike. I mean, Hit is an assassin. And If you ask a guy like him to go all out against you, don't be surprised if he ends up killing you instantly. Goku put the hit on himself for a reason. (No pun intended) Also, for the record, the only ability we see Hit utilise in his rematch with Goku is intangibility. And Hit doesn't even use that technique in the Tournament Of Power. He just used his good ol' Time-Skip.

He used intangibility against Dyspo and Jiren. He nearly rung Dyspo out with it and Jiren just no sold it by attacking the real Hit.

Nah. That instance was the Time-Skip, too. Because it produced the same altered background and even the same sound effect as what would happen when Hit would usually activate the Time-Skip. And when Hit used the basic Intangibility, there wasn't any sound affect or background change like you would get when Hit used the Time-Skip.

[ekrolo2]

He was frozen in time. Breaking the stage would have done nothing, as evidenced by the rocks that were falling off the edge of the stage also being frozen.

Really, having a whole bunch of explosions go on around him to smash the stage away wouldn't have propelled him anywhere? Being frozen in time doesn't mean outside forces can't force you someplace else.

Says who? You'd have to be extremely powerful to physically affect he region inside the time prison, or you have to be Hit. You're just guessing. So am I, admittedly, but I think I see the writers' intent. Also, I'll repeat: "as evidenced by the rocks that were falling off the edge of the stage also being frozen."

Everyone complaining about this seems to believe they have a complete understanding of DB physics, and, to be honest, no one does. I think we can all agree on that. You don't think the writers thought of this? You sincerely don't believe Toriyama thought of this beforehand? The dialog even acknowledges it by having Hit tell the Saiyans not to interfere, for goodness sake.

There's clearly something there we aren't be spoon-fed, is all I'm saying. Call it bad writing if you want, but I think it's better to call it "unexplored." And to be honest, I extrapolated a working interpretation immediately, so I don't care for it to be explored further.

I don't think I'm guessing when I say the stage around Jiren can get smashed enough to plummet him off the ring into the void. Time manipulation makes you vulnerable to attacks, that's the whole gimmick behind it in fighting series.

And no, I don't think anyone thought of this, Super's been going on for 111 episodes and there's more then enough evidence for me to say with utmost confidence that nobody thinks things through on the writing side. Toriyama very much included, in fact, he's probably one of the primary reasons the planning phase doesn't work.

[HeroR]

Nah. That instance was the Time-Skip, too. Because it produced the same altered background and even the same sound effect as what would happen when Hit would usually activate the Time-Skip. And when Hit used the basic Intangibility, there wasn't any sound affect or background change like you would get when Hit used the Time-Skip.

Thst wasn't Time Skip since Whis used almost the same explaination as Vados to explain the illusion Hit made. We even see the same purple outline Hit had in Epsoide 71 and 72. And he used Intangibility against Dyspo to nearly ring him out and Toppo acknowled that Hit crosses dimensions.

[SilverPlaqueVII]

Outstanding episode. It takes 15 episodes to have the first 24 minutes of the Tournament worked out well.

RATING: 8.6/10

[Ziegander]

Look, without teleportation, which is neither scientific, nor has any explanation in the series, moving through physical space takes time. Regardless of how fast you are moving, moving, through space, takes time. There's a reason we measure speed in units of distance/time. I know this is just going to be dismissed as conjecture, but I'm saying it anyway: for Jiren to be frozen in time, ie entirely immobilized via time, he would have to be unable to cross any amount of distance by virtue of being unable to interact with time. That's the only way that works. I have no idea how the DBS writing team thinks Hit's Time Stop ability worked in the episode, but, scientifically, that's the only way such a feat should be able to work. As such, no, destroying the stage beneath Jiren's feet wouldn't have caused him to fall out of the ring unless Hit released him from Time Prison. Again, Jiren could not have fallen if time is not flowing for him, because there cannot be any movement without any time. The stage could be obliterated, the pieces of it would fall down, all of which takes place over the course of a few seconds - a few seconds which Jiren, by virtue of being imprisoned by time, does not actually experience. To Jiren, those seconds simply don't pass. Even though there's nothing for him to stand on, Jiren doesn't fall, because, without Time, he can't. If Cabba, Caulifla, and Kale did destroy the floor underneath Jiren's feet, and Hit did release Jiren from Time Prison, then Jiren would be free to catch himself before he fell into the void, which, sure as you're born, Jiren would do. Even if they eradicated a whole swathe of the arena, no small feat, so that no portion of it was within Jiren's reach as he was released from Time Prison, Jiren would be free to do what Krillin did when saving 18, blast himself back onto the arena. There's simply no way Jiren was going out that way.

Now, actually, I can think of another way Hit's Time Prison ability might work. It was stated that he was essentially using his Time Skip offensively, causing Jiren to skip time, instead of himself. The only way that makes any sense is if Hit were causing Jiren to skip time backwards. Hit, using his Time Skip, skips through time so that his actions happen faster than they should by cutting seconds out here and there from the total time it would take him to perform an action. I don't know how it works, but that's what it seems to do as far as I can tell. So, then, what seemed to be happening was Hit was continually causing Jiren to skip that first second of his movement, placing him back, rather than ahead, to the instant before he began moving. How this operates, in terms of physics, is... a bit more fuzzy. In this case Jiren is not necessarily frozen in time, he is simply... not moving. He is continually in a state of being just about to move. The time in which he would move is still "happening," but over and over it is being reset to "not having happened yet." What this seems to suggest to me is that, again, while Hit is maintaining this effect, any attempt to move Jiren through gravity will likewise be skipped and reset to Jiren "not having fallen yet," unless, of course, Hit releases Jiren from the effect, but, as stated above, if he did that it is obvious to me that Jiren would catch himself or in some other way simply not ring out because of falling.

[Sandubadear]

Or the simply answer that Hit just learned Paralysis like Guldo.

[Noah]

Outstanding episode. It takes 15 episodes to have the first 24 minutes of the Tournament worked out well.

So more 15 episodes to go then?

[Bruma rabu]

Fun episode, I give it 8 time skips out of 1 Jiren glare.

[Fwahm]

Really, having a whole bunch of explosions go on around him to smash the stage away wouldn't have propelled him anywhere? Being frozen in time doesn't mean outside forces can't force you someplace else.

Says who? You'd have to be extremely powerful to physically affect he region inside the time prison, or you have to be Hit. You're just guessing. So am I, admittedly, but I think I see the writers' intent. Also, I'll repeat: "as evidenced by the rocks that were falling off the edge of the stage also being frozen."

Everyone complaining about this seems to believe they have a complete understanding of DB physics, and, to be honest, no one does. I think we can all agree on that. You don't think the writers thought of this? You sincerely don't believe Toriyama thought of this beforehand? The dialog even acknowledges it by having Hit tell the Saiyans not to interfere, for goodness sake.

There's clearly something there we aren't be spoon-fed, is all I'm saying. Call it bad writing if you want, but I think it's better to call it "unexplored." And to be honest, I extrapolated a working interpretation immediately, so I don't care for it to be explored further.

I don't think I'm guessing when I say the stage around Jiren can get smashed enough to plummet him off the ring into the void. Time manipulation makes you vulnerable to attacks, that's the whole gimmick behind it in fighting series.

And no, I don't think anyone thought of this, Super's been going on for 111 episodes and there's more then enough evidence for me to say with utmost confidence that nobody thinks things through on the writing side. Toriyama very much included, in fact, he's probably one of the primary reasons the planning phase doesn't work.

You are guessing, and you're guessing wrong. Hit was literally sealing Jiren off into an alternate dimension of frozen time (we can see Jiren's point of view when he's first put into it), and he can't be affected at all like that (with Hit or other characters as strong as him being the only exception). If they attacked him, 99% chance it would do nothing, and if they destroyed the stage below him, he would just float, unaffected by gravity.

That's not even counting the fact that since he could still move slightly due to being "beyond time", his defenses were still far too strong to do anything to him even if they could affect him. Attack him directly? Ki barrier or he just no sells you. Destroy the ground below him? He shows a few minutes later that he can literally levitate, and he also likely had enough freedom of motion to propel himself with a blast like Krillin did.

There is literally nothing that the four of them could have done to ring him out.

[Arugela]

Says who? You'd have to be extremely powerful to physically affect he region inside the time prison, or you have to be Hit. You're just guessing. So am I, admittedly, but I think I see the writers' intent. Also, I'll repeat: "as evidenced by the rocks that were falling off the edge of the stage also being frozen."

Everyone complaining about this seems to believe they have a complete understanding of DB physics, and, to be honest, no one does. I think we can all agree on that. You don't think the writers thought of this? You sincerely don't believe Toriyama thought of this beforehand? The dialog even acknowledges it by having Hit tell the Saiyans not to interfere, for goodness sake.

There's clearly something there we aren't be spoon-fed, is all I'm saying. Call it bad writing if you want, but I think it's better to call it "unexplored." And to be honest, I extrapolated a working interpretation immediately, so I don't care for it to be explored further.

I don't think I'm guessing when I say the stage around Jiren can get smashed enough to plummet him off the ring into the void. Time manipulation makes you vulnerable to attacks, that's the whole gimmick behind it in fighting series.

And no, I don't think anyone thought of this, Super's been going on for 111 episodes and there's more then enough evidence for me to say with utmost confidence that nobody thinks things through on the writing side. Toriyama very much included, in fact, he's probably one of the primary reasons the planning phase doesn't work.

You are guessing, and you're guessing wrong. Hit was literally sealing Jiren off into an alternate dimension of frozen time (we can see Jiren's point of view when he's first put into it), and he can't be affected at all like that (with Hit or other characters as strong as him being the only exception). If they attacked him, 99% chance it would do nothing, and if they destroyed the stage below him, he would just float, unaffected by gravity.

That's not even counting the fact that since he could still move slightly due to being "beyond time", his defenses were still far too strong to do anything to him even if they could affect him. Attack him directly? Ki barrier or he just no sells you. Destroy the ground below him? He shows a few minutes later that he can literally levitate, and he also likely had enough freedom of motion to propel himself with a blast like Krillin did.

There is literally nothing that the four of them could have done to ring him out.

That is why they could have taken the entire earth out under him and possible hit with him to hold him on the way down. If hit was going he could hold jiren in the freeze while they both fell and he would probably not be able to levitate unless he broke out first. And then he should be most of the way out of bounds. If he can fly or jump high enough he might be able to get back, but only if he breaks out of the time skip. If he can only levitate it's another story. If the grounds moving down he can't do anything. If hit could hold him all the way down then he could take him with him just like tien did.

Logically they had an opportunity to react quickly and get him out of the ring while Hit was holding Jiren in his move.

[Fwahm]

I don't think I'm guessing when I say the stage around Jiren can get smashed enough to plummet him off the ring into the void. Time manipulation makes you vulnerable to attacks, that's the whole gimmick behind it in fighting series.

And no, I don't think anyone thought of this, Super's been going on for 111 episodes and there's more then enough evidence for me to say with utmost confidence that nobody thinks things through on the writing side. Toriyama very much included, in fact, he's probably one of the primary reasons the planning phase doesn't work.

You are guessing, and you're guessing wrong. Hit was literally sealing Jiren off into an alternate dimension of frozen time (we can see Jiren's point of view when he's first put into it), and he can't be affected at all like that (with Hit or other characters as strong as him being the only exception). If they attacked him, 99% chance it would do nothing, and if they destroyed the stage below him, he would just float, unaffected by gravity.

That's not even counting the fact that since he could still move slightly due to being "beyond time", his defenses were still far too strong to do anything to him even if they could affect him. Attack him directly? Ki barrier or he just no sells you. Destroy the ground below him? He shows a few minutes later that he can literally levitate, and he also likely had enough freedom of motion to propel himself with a blast like Krillin did.

There is literally nothing that the four of them could have done to ring him out.

That is why they could have taken the entire earth out under him and possible hit with him to hold him on the way down. If hit was going he could hold jiren in the freeze while they both fell and he would probably not be able to levitate unless he broke out first And then he should be most of the way out of bounds.

He was frozen in time! He wouldn't fall even if he had nothing to stand on.

He also was immediately free enough to put up a ki barrier, so he was free enough to levitate the whole time.

The entire point of this episode is that Jiren cannot be beaten by gimmicks.

[Arugela]

You are guessing, and you're guessing wrong. Hit was literally sealing Jiren off into an alternate dimension of frozen time (we can see Jiren's point of view when he's first put into it), and he can't be affected at all like that (with Hit or other characters as strong as him being the only exception). If they attacked him, 99% chance it would do nothing, and if they destroyed the stage below him, he would just float, unaffected by gravity.

That's not even counting the fact that since he could still move slightly due to being "beyond time", his defenses were still far too strong to do anything to him even if they could affect him. Attack him directly? Ki barrier or he just no sells you. Destroy the ground below him? He shows a few minutes later that he can literally levitate, and he also likely had enough freedom of motion to propel himself with a blast like Krillin did.

There is literally nothing that the four of them could have done to ring him out.

That is why they could have taken the entire earth out under him and possible hit with him to hold him on the way down. If hit was going he could hold jiren in the freeze while they both fell and he would probably not be able to levitate unless he broke out first And then he should be most of the way out of bounds.

He was frozen in time! He wouldn't fall even if he had nothing to stand on.

He also was immediately free enough to put up a ki barrier, so he was free enough to levitate the whole time.

The entire point of this episode is that Jiren cannot be beaten by gimmicks.

The majority or all of the time they show Hits attack it is only affecting a small area around hit or his target. It's possibly they could have just taken both out to get jiren. He would not have to remove the time skip to get him. I'm assuming the entire ring was not held in Hits move.

[Fwahm]

That is why they could have taken the entire earth out under him and possible hit with him to hold him on the way down. If hit was going he could hold jiren in the freeze while they both fell and he would probably not be able to levitate unless he broke out first And then he should be most of the way out of bounds.

He was frozen in time! He wouldn't fall even if he had nothing to stand on.

He also was immediately free enough to put up a ki barrier, so he was free enough to levitate the whole time.

The entire point of this episode is that Jiren cannot be beaten by gimmicks.

The majority or all of the time they show Hits attack it is only affecting a small area around hit or his target. It's possibly they could have just taken both out to get jiren. He would not have to remove the time skip to get him. I'm assuming the entire ring was not held in Hits move.

Are you even reading what I'm saying? Jiren was frozen in time. He cannot be moved by gravity or anything else that isn't on his level

If the ground was destroyed, he would just float until he completely broke free, at which point he'd levitate back to the stage.

[Ziegander]

I don't think I'm guessing when I say the stage around Jiren can get smashed enough to plummet him off the ring into the void. Time manipulation makes you vulnerable to attacks, that's the whole gimmick behind it in fighting series.

And no, I don't think anyone thought of this, Super's been going on for 111 episodes and there's more then enough evidence for me to say with utmost confidence that nobody thinks things through on the writing side. Toriyama very much included, in fact, he's probably one of the primary reasons the planning phase doesn't work.

You are guessing, and you're guessing wrong. Hit was literally sealing Jiren off into an alternate dimension of frozen time (we can see Jiren's point of view when he's first put into it), and he can't be affected at all like that (with Hit or other characters as strong as him being the only exception). If they attacked him, 99% chance it would do nothing, and if they destroyed the stage below him, he would just float, unaffected by gravity.

That's not even counting the fact that since he could still move slightly due to being "beyond time", his defenses were still far too strong to do anything to him even if they could affect him. Attack him directly? Ki barrier or he just no sells you. Destroy the ground below him? He shows a few minutes later that he can literally levitate, and he also likely had enough freedom of motion to propel himself with a blast like Krillin did.

There is literally nothing that the four of them could have done to ring him out.

That is why they could have taken the entire earth out under him and possible hit with him to hold him on the way down. If hit was going he could hold jiren in the freeze while they both fell and he would probably not be able to levitate unless he broke out first And then he should be most of the way out of bounds.

That's not how this works. That's not how any of this works!

Look, without teleportation, which is neither scientific, nor has any explanation in the series, moving through physical space takes time. Regardless of how fast you are moving, moving, through space, takes time. There's a reason we measure speed in units of distance/time. I know this is just going to be dismissed as conjecture, but I'm saying it anyway: for Jiren to be frozen in time, ie entirely immobilized via time, he would have to be unable to cross any amount of distance by virtue of being unable to interact with time. That's the only way that works. I have no idea how the DBS writing team thinks Hit's Time Stop ability worked in the episode, but, scientifically, that's the only way such a feat should be able to work. As such, no, destroying the stage beneath Jiren's feet wouldn't have caused him to fall out of the ring unless Hit released him from Time Prison. Again, Jiren could not have fallen if time is not flowing for him, because there cannot be any movement without any time. The stage could be obliterated, the pieces of it would fall down, all of which takes place over the course of a few seconds - a few seconds which Jiren, by virtue of being imprisoned by time, does not actually experience. To Jiren, those seconds simply don't pass. Even though there's nothing for him to stand on, Jiren doesn't fall, because, without Time, he can't. If Cabba, Caulifla, and Kale did destroy the floor underneath Jiren's feet, and Hit did release Jiren from Time Prison, then Jiren would be free to catch himself before he fell into the void, which, sure as you're born, Jiren would do. Even if they eradicated a whole swathe of the arena, no small feat, so that no portion of it was within Jiren's reach as he was released from Time Prison, Jiren would be free to do what Krillin did when saving 18, blast himself back onto the arena. There's simply no way Jiren was going out that way.

Now, actually, I can think of another way Hit's Time Prison ability might work. It was stated that he was essentially using his Time Skip offensively, causing Jiren to skip time, instead of himself. The only way that makes any sense is if Hit were causing Jiren to skip time backwards. Hit, using his Time Skip, skips through time so that his actions happen faster than they should by cutting seconds out here and there from the total time it would take him to perform an action. I don't know how it works, but that's what it seems to do as far as I can tell. So, then, what seemed to be happening was Hit was continually causing Jiren to skip that first second of his movement, placing him back, rather than ahead, to the instant before he began moving. How this operates, in terms of physics, is... a bit more fuzzy. In this case Jiren is not necessarily frozen in time, he is simply... not moving. He is continually in a state of being just about to move. The time in which he would move is still "happening," but over and over it is being reset to "not having happened yet." What this seems to suggest to me is that, again, while Hit is maintaining this effect, any attempt to move Jiren through gravity will likewise be skipped and reset to Jiren "not having fallen yet," unless, of course, Hit releases Jiren from the effect, but, as stated above, if he did that it is obvious to me that Jiren would catch himself or in some other way simply not ring out because of falling.

If Cabba, Kale, and Caulifla took out like a quarter of the arena so they could knock out Hit as well as Jiren, assuming Hit maintained his Time Hold on Jiren, then Hit would fall but Jiren would not. The whole point is that Jiren can't move because Hit is either imprisoning him with Time or depriving him of the time he needs to have a speed greater than 0. Without time there can not be any movement. And that doesn't just mean movement of your own free will, either. If you do not experience time, you can not move. The cells in your body can't move, you can't age or die, a bullet can't harm you because to do so it would have to move into your body, severing your flesh, moving your cells out of the way to make room for itself, thereby causing you damage. You, and every part of your body, down to the electrons in the atoms that make up your body's cells, are locked in place simultaneously unable to move and unable to be moved. That's how that works. Not even gravity can move you if you don't experience time, because if you start at point A, to move through space to point B, time has to pass for you. If it doesn't, then you cannot move through that space, or any space. Jiren would remain exactly where was before the stage was blown up.

Or you can interpret the power the reverse Time Skip way, but you still get the same result. This time you can move, Hit just resets you back to where you were before you actually did move.

[Arugela]

When he had goku in the other dimension(the time skip) I'm pretty sure they could move and be affected by gravity within the dimension.Hit was also continuously applying time skip. Why could he not let him fall inbetween applications or something. Jiren obviously could brute force it. It depends on what time skip is. It's a dimension. That does not mean he can't be made to move at all. Did they not fight in the dimension with goku and hit?

I'm rewatching the episode. I don't see anything about rocks not falling because of time skip in the episode.

Nothing says hit can't allow or make him move. What was the point of the attack he was saving up to knock him off if he didn't think he could make jiren move with his ability. He was obviously getting ready to knock him off while he was held in place. If that attack could do anything in any way let alone Jiren brute forcing it there is no reason to say he can't be made to move or any of the other arguments. The fact it's called time skip does not void the other applications. Or the things presented to us don't make sense already. You just have to think that out.

If it was true absolute time holding the attack he tried to use while he was held could never effect him while he was held. And he was planning to hit him while he was held in time stasis. So there is no way of saying nothing can effect jiren. Didn't Hit effect things in stasis in the past before being out of stasis?

If it were a true stopping of time they couldn't or wouldn't need to breathe or react to anything. So it's not on that level of an ability. It's called time skip for a reason. It's not total absolute time stasis.

In episode 39 when he attacks goku in the time stasis he moves around in the 0.5 seconds. There is no reason to think he can't make him drop or anything else. The definition of people not moving is not correct. they breath in that time. In fact he hits goku and makes him move. He's just using a really long time skip or similar. I'm still watching for the other episode. I forget which ones the rematch is in.

In fact I think the time skip is like a slow down. It's slowing down time by a certain amount. I think goku in episode 39 simply used the speed application of KKx10 to go fast enough to move on par.... Might explain what jiren did. Say Time skip was slowing everthing down by 100x. And goku sped up from 10x10=100 for even time movement. Or approximately. so the enemies speed may be able to counter it depending on slow down. I think Hit uses the dimension to go faster or make the enemy slower like a time wizard. I don't think it's full time stop. I don't think that makes sense in context.

It might even be like the concept of certain time slow down sci fi things where if you are moving slower and you hit something it hits harder. This would be from relative velocity and force. So hit might be able to apply more force to something slowed down. He may be going into a dimension that makes him move in a fluidly faster way as the dimension is faster. This means he can do a lot of stuff to his enemy because of increased attack speed of matter. This is logical for an assassin technique. If he slows the enemy in a slower dimension it could also make them easier to toss around equally. Of course some similar concepts make slower things harder to hit also because their mass is more dense... I guess it depends on the fiction or specific application. It could also be the time skip length is a variable increasing the speed or something...

[Jables]

Fantastic episode.

- Freeza paying his debt to Goku was an interesting development and furthermore telling him about Ultra Instinct.

- I'm surprised Hit wasn't learning faster from Jiren's attacks and movements. Perhaps the difference in their power was so significantly higher than Hit's, he struggled to adapt. I'm glad Goku was able to spend some time studying the fight and hopefully develop a plan to attain Ultra Instinct again.

- I'm a little shocked that Jiren doesn't consider Vegeta, Gohan or Freeza a threat to be honest.

- How does Goku plan to tap back into Ultra Instinct without a power source?

- I think the question everyone is wondering right now is: What will wake up Jiren?
My guess: Vegeta, Gohan or Berserker Kale

- I'm growing more curious what species Jiren is. I was previously thinking "Okay, if there is a Jiren in Universe 11, there must be one in Universe 12" but they confirm he is one of a kind. That is interesting to me. Perhaps, the God of Destruction from Universe 11 created Jiren. Possibly from dragon balls?

- MY PREVIOUS POINT MAKES ME EVEN MORE CONFUSED ALL OF THE SUDDEN. Aren't Dragon balls a Nemekian thing? Or do they have guardian species in every universe?

- I also don't think Jiren is the person who can defeat a God of Destruction for 1 reason: Wouldn't Beerus recognize him if he had previously lost to him in an arm wrestle?