ekrolo2 wrote: dbs fanboy wrote:
It's not a matter of real world dynamics for me, it's making some sense as its own thing, which Super's idea of "strategery & tactix!" doesn't. Why the fuck would Krillin's +30 years of experience at aaaallll save him if the guy he's fighting can smash him out of bounds so fast Krillin can't even register it. Strategy and tactics, when used right in Dragon Ball, work just fine. Everyone vs Vegeta in the Saiyan arc is a perfectly example, nobody gets +1000000000000 PL points because of experience or whatever the fuck, it's a combination of dumb luck and varied power usage that ultimately lets them beat someone who'd usually kick their shit in even severely wounded. In Super? Strategy and tactics is just a nothing statement that makes worthless fodder like the Earthlings stand toe to toe with opponents who are completely beyond them in every capacity. Until the classic Z rule kicks in and power = trumps all.
You're right, thought i can't see how does this apply to this tournament. There's a vast difference between those situations on the saiyan saga and this arc. The difference is the fact, that on those fights, the warriors were trying to kill each other, so yeah, no problem. Howevern in the ToP , killing is not allowed so a lot of strong characters have to hold back their power, giving the weaker characters an opportunity to do something against them, even if it's not much, as the objective is to throw everyone out of bounds, without necessarily knocking them out.
For example the talisman user from U4 could have (maybe) defeated stronger characters such as maybe Gohan and co by using deception, to beat them and she wasn't defeated on a classical way. Krillin defeated that wolf guy (forgot his name) by outsmarting him and blocking the only way he could sense him, and use the brief moment to threw him off.
If killing was allowed, or knocking out the opponent were the only rules, then yeah, even with a lot of strategy, the weakling would only be able to try to survive.
So far, the only times i have seen super bullshitting it's way with these fights, were in this recent match, and when Roshi was able to defeat the bird guy by using power (even thought he put EVERYTHING
on that kamehameha)
This is by far the laziest and most wrong defense of the practice. Goku powers up to a higher strength just fine and he smashes the Ginyu Force's entire shit in WITHOUT killing them! FFS! Goku makes himself considerably more powerful then Nappa and in the burst of a moment can hit him precisely enough to leave him disabled, but alive. Cell is leagues above Vegeta but he doesn't kill him when he smashes him in the back while suppressed.
Can we please by Thor's fucking beard stop acting like everyone's too incompetent/stupid to fight at higher levels of power without killing somebody?
But wouldn't the tournament's rules still provide a way for weaker characters to hold their own? I don't know, given the fact that to defeat someone you just need to knock them out, that the own environment could be used to plan a strategy while hiding from other opponents, and that weird atacks/techniques could prove to be effective under certain circumstances....
If character X it's much stronger than character Y but character Y knows a technique that allows him/her to mask his/her identity completely (being 100% invisible and unnoticeable) and knows an attack that could poison the opponent (not necessarily in a kethal way) couldn't character Y still win the fight?
Roshi being able to dodge someone much faster than him may not make sense (depending on the gap of power thought) but i don't see any problem on him defeating that guy by using hypnosis, making him fall asleep (even thought it didn't work on ep 105)
Of course as i said before, super still fucked up some moments with some episodes having a character that's completely weak outpower someone stronger,or other one completely being able to magically defeat a an opponent with a really op move/strategy, without any reason. But i can't see what's the problem in these other situations.
There's also the fact that members of one team can help each other so they don't get their shit stomped against stronger rivals, like Vegeta did with Roshi in ep 107 (even thougth the only reason Roshi made it out was because Frost is a pshyco that likes torturing his victims).
Some of them even making combinations, for example Botamo and Magetta. Botamo is not a really capable fighter and he can easily be outsmaerted, and Magetta it's really weak to insults, but them together could actually do much better than being spearated (i don't fucking understand why did they stop helping eahc other after a while).