TheShadowEmperor8055 wrote:Also, looks like Jiren has Ultra Instinct himself or something really close to it, given how he was able to react even to Hit's time-stopping attacks. Man... even Freeza readily admitted he couldn't beat Jiren. Guy's a monster.
Pretty much. I like that this episode gave more character to Jiren as well. I'm liking him even more. I loved the fight. Jiren adapting to Tokitobashi and Cross Dimension. Jiren creating a barrier with his eyes while being paralyzed was insane to me. Freeza admitting he wants to avoid fighting Jiren at all costs.
Unfortunate for Hitto, but it was expected. Respectable performance by the assassin given the freak of nature he went up against. Jiren is just too much.
I absolutely laughed my ass off at Goku legit being insulted to the fore when Jiren stares at him and states there's currently nobody worth his time. Lol'd hard seeing Goku so triggered.
I'm the only who think it's retarded that Universe 6 and 7 one time fight together and other time fight between themselves? We have Piccolo and Gohan fighting with the U6 namekians and Vegeta helping Cabba in the same episode for God's sake. What's the matter with them?
Vegeta should just let Freeza smash Cabba's head through the ring floor, he's on the opposite team, no Saiyan compassion bullsh*t!
Are we too old to enjoy new Dragon Ball movies/series?
Spoiler:
Nickolaidas wrote: ↑Sun Jun 14, 2015 2:10 am
Guys, I'm going to be straight with you. If you feel the show has gotten 'silly' ... it hasn't. You're just 'too old for this shit'. Seriously, 95% of the people in those boards do not fit the target demographic of the show, so don't expect the show to be 'everything you hoped for'. I'm referring to the people here who expect Super to be rich with dark moments, serious storytelling, meaningful characters etc etc. It won't. It's a show for kids. A show for kids being kids. Everyone in those boards has a manchild in him/her, clamoring to get out, and that's fine. But having unrealistic expectations (such as believing the show grew up alongside you) is naïve at best. Honestly, do you take seriously a story where the supposed God of Destruction halts his urges to blow up stuff in order to eat ice cream sundae? That's the show's silliness at full force, take it for what it is. The show hasn't matured one bit, so don't expect it too. Again, I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I'm saying *that* is DB and always will be.
namekiansaiyan wrote:Hit put up a good fight but it is now up to the rest of team Universe yl6 to do the job for them.
The Namekians made a appearence and this fight seems like it is going to go over many episodes. I think they will be the last 2 from Universe 6 and I still think they are hiding something.
Jiren is going to regret being cocky.
Why did the pride troopers not knock out the Biarra and Catopesra when they need to.
Cabba is in deep trouble next episode and I do not knoe how he is going to getaway from Frieza who probably cant wait to knock him out of the arena.
The best scenario I can think of, would be that the U6 Namekians prove to be some really strong powerhouses, hence they are able to stay till the end, however getting beaten by Piccolo and Gohan, they beg Piccolo to let them merge with him in a effort to ensure the existence of the Namekian race, even if it is in a different universe.
if they play their cards well, Piccolo could easily be top tier again.
I liked hit,his character was good and his strategy was great but he was kinda stupid for not letting the saiyans attack jiren,i at least wanted to see some effort from U6.
Jiren is growing on me,he is speaking a lot and is leaving an impact for every universe,he has no bs attitide which i'm liking and is very competent since he adapted to hit movement so he is not a brute
I also liked freeza saving goku here,is so beautiful and ironic can't say the same for u2 which i'm not fond of right now
Overall i enjoyed this episode through the pride trooper need to attack goku up there otherwise there idiots as well get rid of those peeps from U3
Last edited by The gr on Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Bullza wrote:A lot of people mentioning about the Saiyans knocking Jiren off the edge while he was froze but considering the last episode and Super Saiyan 2 Goku ever so slightly budging his neck then chances are they couldn't have knocked him off even if they tried.
I don't see why one of them coudn't be strong enough to try to take out the ledge and make him fall while hit holds him in suspension. He can possibly fly. so this was the perfect chance to knock the ground out. A much weaker guy did it against Tien. There is no reason for the 3 sayians not to go all out and take the ground out from beneath him and win a huge victory. That would have been good for the show as tactics would finally take out brute force. And intelligently. would have been a massive shift in the TOP's flow and made lots of sense. Especially goku weak and others from doing stupid brute force attacks and getting what they deserve for their stupidity. It would have made things a bit more right again. If only this were going the smart way.
That was the perfect opportunity to show how not watching out for seemingly smaller units using strategy can't be extremely dangerous in a situation. Exactly what the tournament should be about.
Last edited by Arugela on Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Lord Frieza wrote:I wonder why some call Jiren brute when he A) completely adpated to Hit's time-skip, B) saw through Hit's clone powers without seeing it befor and C) was smart enough to stop Hit's attack short befor trying to full break out of the time freeze.
Yeah all the hall marks of a brute with coasts on power and has no skill . Not saying anyone has to like Jiren or anything but lets not sell the guy short ether.
dbzfan7 wrote:
I'm not arguing logics. It's true raw power will be more important most of the time. But these are martial artist with supreme skill. It's just a shame in a martial arts tournament, skill doesn't matter all that much. It makes a difference for sure, but not nearly as much as it should.
I agree with you nor do I think your arguing agnest it. But as I've pointed out above, Jiren is pretty skilled himself and Hit's skill allowed him to out perform the more powerful SSBKKx20 Goku. But their battle of skill had reached is limite and Jiren had both the power and moves to counter Hit's last gabbit. Its the closest thing to a real fight as we are going to get.
I don't get it either. He displayed he's a pretty smart fighter clearly enough. Him using raw power doesn't take away that it was stated hat he was quickly adapting to Tokitobashi and Hitto Dimension hopping. Don't have to like the guy, but he certainly isn't a brute.
I liked hit,his character was good and his strategy was great but he was kinda stupid for not letting the saiyans attack jiren,i at least wanted to see some effort from U6.
Jiren is growing on me,he is speaking a lot and is leaving an impact for every universe,he has no bs attitide which i'm liking and is very competent since he adapted to hit movement so he is not a brute
I also liked freeza saving goku here,is so beautiful and ironic can't say the same for u2 which i'm not fond of right now
Overall i enjoyed this episode through the pride trooper need to attack goku up there otherwise there idiots as well get rid of those peeps from U3
I agree with your statements and just wish that Hit could have stayed longer but oh well.
Majinwarman So I'm 'evil', huh? Interesting."
A world without Dragon Ball is just meh.
Noah wrote:I'm the only who think it's retarded that Universe 6 and 7 one time fight together and other time fight between themselves? We have Piccolo and Gohan fighting with the U6 namekians and Vegeta helping Cabba in the same episode for God's sake. What's the matter with them?
Vegeta should just let Freeza smash Cabba's head through the ring floor, he's on the opposite team, no Saiyan compassion bullsh*t!
Until we actually see the episode it's really hard to comment because previews can be misleading but as I said I think this conflict for Vegeta is interesting. It's not as clear cut as you make out.
And if you don't get why Vegeta may not want Freeza of all characters to attack a Saiyan he has become fond of. I know on one hand it is stupid because they are on opposite teams but...
Sometimes a character can do something that that doesn't benefit them but they still can't help but do it.
Piccolo and Gohan on the other hand have no special feelings towards those Namekians. They saw they were about to attack Goku when his back was turned. The situation is not the same.
ekrolo2 wrote:Two theings are reinforced once more: Time Skip does whatever they need it to and strategery & tactix matter over raw power until they magically don't, again.
Strategy and tactics have NEVER worked with overwhelmingly powerful foes.
namekiansaiyan wrote:Hit put up a good fight but it is now up to the rest of team Universe yl6 to do the job for them.
The Namekians made a appearence and this fight seems like it is going to go over many episodes. I think they will be the last 2 from Universe 6 and I still think they are hiding something.
Jiren is going to regret being cocky.
Why did the pride troopers not knock out the Biarra and Catopesra when they need to.
Cabba is in deep trouble next episode and I do not knoe how he is going to getaway from Frieza who probably cant wait to knock him out of the arena.
Vegeta is most likely going to save Cabba, which might be the reason for Vegetas Resolve.
ekrolo2 wrote:Two theings are reinforced once more: Time Skip does whatever they need it to and strategery & tactix matter over raw power until they magically don't, again.
Strategy and tactics have NEVER worked with overwhelmingly powerful foes.
In the real world they always do. Bigger powerful things always need protection or they are targeted faster than anything. Have you heard of david and goliath. Tanks and Battleship and other things in real war are the same thing. They are meant for specific situation. You loose them you loose a lot. If you use them right you gain a lot. The wrong way and you waiste precious materials and time. It's the same with knights and horseback. The more you invest in a single entity the more dangerous it is to both you and the enemy potentially. Strong things always have strong weaknesses by nature. This is not fantasy. This is how things always work in the real world. The show should write on this premise. It would improve it drastically.
This general topic is what is wrong with almost all video games and tv shows and similar today. They have no concept of real world dynamics. Those dynamics are the very basis of what they claim they want to design and make. And what make up basically the entirety of what they are trying to do and what they should be doing.
Last edited by Arugela on Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
jplaya2023 wrote:i like the episode but i didn't like the episode.
Why didn't hit tell his kids to knock jiren off when he had him trapped.
Also in the pre tournament hit was said to grow stronger the stronger the opponent is so he could've improved time skipped until it overwhelmed jiren.
Why didn't goku use IT to save hit? That isn't flying. Seems like they needed him eliminated in this tournament because of his hax..
If they went and helped Push Jiren off, he could've potentially knocked all three of them off at once. Hit told them to go do something else while he handles Jiren.
Miracles wrote:
See Frost vs Vegeta when he tricked him with the Mafuba.
See Hit tricking Dyspo off the ring.
Strategy has won over power in the tournament.
Neither of those were successful in eliminating them.
Only due to more strategy or teamwork saving the day.
Check Roshi vs the Hulk bird. Roshi won with tactic.
The point is, TOEI gave the audience a mixture of both brains and brawn.
ekrolo2 wrote:Two theings are reinforced once more: Time Skip does whatever they need it to and strategery & tactix matter over raw power until they magically don't, again.
Strategy and tactics have NEVER worked with overwhelmingly powerful foes.
In the real world they always do. Bigger powerful things always need protection or they are targeted faster than anything. Have you heard of david and goliath. Tanks and Battleship and other things in real war are the same thing. They are meant for specific situation. You loose them you loose a lot. If you use them right you gain a lot. The wrong way and you waiste precious materials and time. It's the same with knights and horseback. The more you invest in a single entity the more dangerous it is to both you and the enemy potentially. Strong things always have strong weaknesses by nature. This is not fantasy. This is how things always work in the real world. The show should write on this premise. It would improve it drastically.
This is a cartoon. In the world of dragon ball, it doesn't work. Period. If you try to apply real life logic to a cartoon, you'll have a boring show.
TekTheNinja wrote:
Neither of those were successful in eliminating them.
Only due to more strategy or teamwork saving the day.
Check Roshi vs the Hulk bird. Roshi won with tactic.
The point is, TOEI gave the audience a mixture of both brains and brawn.
Tactics beat other tactics but never beat power.
That is only true if you refer to fiction. That is never true in the real world.
TheOne wrote:
Arugela wrote:
TheOne wrote:
Strategy and tactics have NEVER worked with overwhelmingly powerful foes.
In the real world they always do. Bigger powerful things always need protection or they are targeted faster than anything. Have you heard of david and goliath. Tanks and Battleship and other things in real war are the same thing. They are meant for specific situation. You loose them you loose a lot. If you use them right you gain a lot. The wrong way and you waiste precious materials and time. It's the same with knights and horseback. The more you invest in a single entity the more dangerous it is to both you and the enemy potentially. Strong things always have strong weaknesses by nature. This is not fantasy. This is how things always work in the real world. The show should write on this premise. It would improve it drastically.
This is a cartoon. In the world of dragon ball, it doesn't work. Period. If you try to apply real life logic to a cartoon, you'll have a boring show.
No, if you don't apply real world logic you will have a boring show. The nature of real world to fiction is literally a matter of complexity. The fiction is merely a simplified reality. If you use the real world things in fiction it will be less boring. That is the proper viewpoint of writing and creative works. Let alone anything else.
Lord Frieza wrote:I wonder why some call Jiren brute when he A) completely adpated to Hit's time-skip, B) saw through Hit's clone powers without seeing it befor and C) was smart enough to stop Hit's attack short befor trying to full break out of the time freeze.
Yeah all the hall marks of a brute with coasts on power and has no skill . Not saying anyone has to like Jiren or anything but lets not sell the guy short ether.
dbzfan7 wrote:
I'm not arguing logics. It's true raw power will be more important most of the time. But these are martial artist with supreme skill. It's just a shame in a martial arts tournament, skill doesn't matter all that much. It makes a difference for sure, but not nearly as much as it should.
I agree with you nor do I think your arguing agnest it. But as I've pointed out above, Jiren is pretty skilled himself and Hit's skill allowed him to out perform the more powerful SSBKKx20 Goku. But their battle of skill had reached is limite and Jiren had both the power and moves to counter Hit's last gabbit. Its the closest thing to a real fight as we are going to get.
Fair enough. I don't see though anything he did was any different from what Goku did to counter those moves.
The difference is a mix of how they fight and what abiliyes they use them. First of let me point out that I veiw kaiokin in the sma vain as Time skip, while what they do is different they are both techniques.
when faced with Jiren Goku to the head on approch, hitting Jiren with all his raw power.....and played right into Jiren's hands. In a strait fight Goku was never going to win because while both of them ar skilled warriors the power gap came into play. At no point was Jiren at any real disadvantage and Goku was soundly beaten.
Hit by contrast never took Jiren head on. Like his fight wih Dyspo, Hit's head on attacks were just a frount to his real objective, find a weak spot. He cannot counter Jiren, and even though Cabba said Hit is trying to minise damage aganst Jiren's attacks like he did with Dyspo.......Jiren is just to powerful to that to work for any length of time. But as we saw he was able to find just a small enough edge to exploit. So thats what I mean when I say he did better then Goku even though the power gap came into play again here to. Hit was able to at keast do something, even if it was freezing him in place.
Last edited by Lord Frieza on Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
TekTheNinja wrote:
Neither of those were successful in eliminating them.
Only due to more strategy or teamwork saving the day.
Check Roshi vs the Hulk bird. Roshi won with tactic.
The point is, TOEI gave the audience a mixture of both brains and brawn.
Tactics beat other tactics but never beat power.
Roshi vs the bird did IIRC.
This is Dragonball, power will override tactics most of the time.
Last edited by Miracles on Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.
BlueBasilisk wrote:Wasn't terribly impressed by this episode. The fight between Hit and Jiren was decent, but it was absolutely stupid not to have the three Saiyans rush Jiren while he was frozen or blow up the ring at his feet to knock him out of bounds. And he thinks Toppo and Dyspo can win alone when he had to save Dyspo's bacon just a few minutes ago before Maji=Kayo ganked him with scissors?
NEP looks okay. I'm betting Vegeta attacks Frieza to get him off of Cabba.
Why have 3 Saiyan rush Jiren when he was showing that his attack was starting to not work? If Jiren was desperate enough, it's pretty clear he would've broken out of it and probably knocked out the Saiyans as well.
Miracles wrote:
Only due to more strategy or teamwork saving the day.
Check Roshi vs the Hulk bird. Roshi won with tactic.
The point is, TOEI gave the audience a mixture of both brains and brawn.
Tactics beat other tactics but never beat power.
As I have stated before. This is Dragonball, that will not happen.
As I have stated before, THEN WHY DID THEY HYPE UP TACTICS SO MUCH?! If you can't answer this, you have no argument.
precita wrote:Hit/Jiren was very good. I'm really curious why Ribianne is getting so much focus, is she going to get some new form or something?
Gohan/Piccolo Vs. Nameks looked interesting for the 10 seconds of it we saw.
I liked how U6 reacted to Hit's downfall. I guess next week is Cabba's.
Nah. Cabba is probably gonna last a bit longer. It's starting to look like Vegeta will save him from Frieza. Which would explain why the episode is called Vegetas Resolve. Saving a fellow Saiyan from being harassed by a teammate.
. Not saying anyone has to like Jiren or anything but lets not sell the guy short ether.
