Super Episode 112 (22 October 2017)

[Jigurashi]

Why would he still be there? I don't think they ever crossed off Kuririn from the list either.

I'm pretty sure he was. Some think what got kicked out was a copy which could be true or the animators forgot to take him off the list.

The only real problem with that is that Hitto's clones can't be physically touched. So for a Hitto to be on the bench and even be talking, it means that's the real one.

Hm, now the neogaf has been wiped off the face of the earth I wonder if all the users from the Dragonball Super thread will come here.

Funny that it happened the night a new Super ep aired.

Why did Neogaf get wiped off?

[Asura]

Because Cabba's development will clearly continue after the tournament as they set up the trip to Planet Salad again. Likewise, him getting quick elimination by Freeza was perfect. I don't see the point of nitpicking this when SSJ2 was to give him a moment of glory, and others like Caulifa attaining it before means we've seen it so many times now.

Cabba was introduced in the U6 arc over 70 episodes ago, and this is the first development he's gotten. You're telling me we have to wait for yet another arc just to make anything interesting about this character?

Yes, what more do you want?

An interesting character with a personality.

[Forte224]

Yeah Vegeta, you definitely haven't delusionally peaked by thinking you can beat Jiren.

The theories that Vegeta has something special planned are getting more believable. His calmness during Goku's fight mixed with him thinking he himself can take on Jiren are raising flags for me. I still think he'll get eliminated by Jiren though...but who knows? I'm sure they won't have him fight Jiren just to be one-shot by him. Or he's just gone of his rocker. One of the two

They had Hitto fight Jiren just for Hitto to not actually hurt Jiren at all and get bodied by him for like 95% of that fight.

Yeah but he still did something that seemed like it might work. If Vegeta is going to actually get a shot at fighting him, they'll have him doing something we weren't expecting at the very least, even if it fails. He's not just going to say "Hey Jiren let's fight" *one-punch-K.O. on Vegeta...returns to meditation*

[Jigurashi]

The theories that Vegeta has something special planned are getting more believable. His calmness during Goku's fight mixed with him thinking he himself can take on Jiren are raising flags for me. I still think he'll get eliminated by Jiren though...but who knows? I'm sure they won't have him fight Jiren just to be one-shot by him. Or he's just gone of his rocker. One of the two

They had Hitto fight Jiren just for Hitto to not actually hurt Jiren at all and get bodied by him for like 95% of that fight.

Yeah but he still did something that seemed like it might work. If Vegeta is going to actually get a shot at fighting him, they'll have him doing something we weren't expecting at the very least, even if it fails. He's not just going to say "Hey Jiren let's fight" *one-punch-K.O. on Vegeta...returns to meditation*

Well obviously not. Unless they want to be cruel to Vegeta fans, they're not going to have Jiren one-shot him. He probably will have something new. Unfortunately, this is Vegeta, so they'd probably just give him another generic ki blast technique which will likely not do much. I'm honestly wondering why nobody running Super (anime and manga) bother to actually give this guy a technique that isn't just another ki blast.

[Noah]

The hints were there all along that she would get SSJ3, heck Goku tells her she is gonna get it. If it makes you feel better, I'm certain her getting SSJ3 won't be as bad as Gotenks getting it.

You thought Gotenks was bad? I think we had good excuses like "it was the fusion between Saiyans hybrids with great potential" and "they being a fused being allowed them to achieve such thing". In the Boo arc we learned that SSJ3 is not a transformation unlocked by common methods like raw anger or casual training.

Goku achieved after doing God King Kai knows what in the Afterlife for seven years and Gotenks due being a fused being, no one else has acquired the transformation after. Even with Goku implying Caulifla may get SSJ3 in battle, I still think it's lame that a couple of episodes earlier she thought Grade 3 was a good transformation.

[Hana Midorikawa]

Cabba was introduced in the U6 arc over 70 episodes ago, and this is the first development he's gotten. You're telling me we have to wait for yet another arc just to make anything interesting about this character?

Yes, what more do you want?

An interesting character with a personality.

Cabba has a personality. You and others need to stop acting as if a character has no personality when they clearly do. Not every character needs to be super complex or eccentric or overly animated. Whether or not you find him interesting is subjective, I for one find him completely interesting and loved seeing him in action this episode.

[SirTorra]

A couple of things here
1. Caulifla getting ss3 will be the biggest piece of garbage this show has produced. Anyway you look at it its bad/lazy writing. I understand the whole potential thing but ss1, ss2, ss3 achieved in two days is nonsense.
2. I feel bad for Vegeta. Although he hasn't show it, he truly misses his people. He's a king with no kingdom and the thought of being around other saiyans will probably make him a much more happier person. He truly wants what's best for his people. He also probably regrets killing nappa.

[Jigurashi]

Yes, what more do you want?

An interesting character with a personality.

Cabba has a personality. You and others need to stop acting as if a character has no personality when they clearly do. Not every character needs to be super complex or eccentric or overly animated. Whether or not you find him interesting is subjective, I for one find him completely interesting and loved seeing him in action this episode.

Yeah, people in general say this stuff a lot. Commonly for Cabba and Jiren. Both have personalities, but what I feel is really the issue with their characters is that (mostly for Jiren at the moment) their personalities are extremely basic. The character is there, it's just with little depth.

[Tombstone1988]

Things I Liked:

-Cabba's fight with generic fighter #34 (AKA Monna) was alright and Cabba vs. Freeza was satisfying.
-Vegeta referenced Planet Sadala? Praise be, our prince has a heart! Seriously though, good touch Toshio/Toriyama.
-Kale wasn't insufferable for the first time all arc. That's substantial improvement in my book.
-Freeza being Freeza. Gotta love it, even if you're sick of seeing him come back like me.

Things I'm Mixed On:

-"Hey everyone, I know Goku just fought Jiren using Kaioken x20 and a Spirit Bomb, as well as Ultra Instinct, but I definitely think I can take him." Vegeta was being developed so well this episode, then this delusion happened. At least Toppo was there to knock him down a peg.
-The little beginning fight with Goku and the Universe 3 fighters was actually fairly interesting, since Goku is still weak and everything. Then Caulifla just comes and knocks all 3 of them away in base form. *Deep sigh*
-You're trying to make Champa less repulsive as a character Toshio, I can tell. I still don't like him, but I can see the effort you're putting in there.
-This fight with the universe 6 Namekians is actually really interesting! Please stop giving it to us in 60 second increments each week, Toei.

Things I Disliked:

-If someone out there could edit each episode of Super to remove all of the Omni Kings' useless fluff dialogue, I would he a happy viewer... sometimes.
-You get a transformation! And you get a transformation! Everyone gets a transformation! It seems Super is skipping the middle man with transformations and just using them as the character development themselves. Spoiler warning, it's not. I guess if your teacher pep talks you by telling you to stop being pathetic, your opponent talks smack about said teacher, and you're at least level 37, you too can unlock Super Saiyan 2. Seriously, the universe 6 saiyans currently feel like that kid who gets into an MMO 6 months after launch, sees a bunch of max level players, and uses his parent's credit card to buy EXP boosts to quickly get up to max level himself. Nobody likes that kid.
-Scaling is still atrocious. Cabba can barely do anything as a Super Saiyan, despite one-shotting 2 different fighters in his base form earlier; afterwards, Vegeta knocks Monna away in his base form, then Cabba overpowers her as a Super Saiyan 2. I guess Vegeta's base is close to Cabba's SSJ2 in power now? So he's, like, almost 100 times stronger than he was in the Universe 6 arc? I don't even know anymore.
-Can't stand Caulifla. She's a cocky Saiyan brute with a pair of boobs. So compelling. Kale is becoming a better character than her. KALE.

Overall, this was another mixed episode for me. The stuff with Vegeta and Cabba was all quite good, minus the shoehorned SSJ2 transformation. Freeza continues to be a treat. The little skirmishes in the first half looked quite intriguing. Kale actually seemed like a character instead of a clone. But there were some low points as well. Caulifla is slowly turning into one of my least favorite characters, power scaling continues to be dragged through the dirt, and transformations are still a dime a dozen. I'd say overall the episode is above average, leaning on good. Probably Toshio's weakest episode this tournament. And I can't say I'm all too excited for next week's episode either, so we may be on a downward slope for a bit. We'll wait and see, I guess.

[Asura]

Yes, what more do you want?

An interesting character with a personality.

Cabba has a personality. You and others need to stop acting as if a character has no personality when they clearly do. Not every character needs to be super complex or eccentric or overly animated. Whether or not you find him interesting is subjective, I for one find him completely interesting and loved seeing him in action this episode.

Alright, I'll title up his personality to "basic bitch" since all he is is basic. He doesn't need to be super complex or eccentric or overly animated, he just needs to be interesting. He was interesting this episode, but before this he had absolutely nothing going for him. Got shit on since the beginning of the arc with Caulifla and Kale completely outclassing him, and he's been useless the entire tournament, occasionally we get small cuts to him getting his ass kicked by someone like Toppo. He just feels like a mixture of the worst/most boring parts of multiple other characters.

An interesting character with a personality.

Cabba has a personality. You and others need to stop acting as if a character has no personality when they clearly do. Not every character needs to be super complex or eccentric or overly animated. Whether or not you find him interesting is subjective, I for one find him completely interesting and loved seeing him in action this episode.

Yeah, people in general say this stuff a lot. Commonly for Cabba and Jiren. Both have personalities, but what I feel is really the issue with their characters is that (mostly for Jiren at the moment) their personalities are extremely basic. The character is there, it's just with little depth.

If there's little depth to someone's personality then they may as well have no personality.

[TheGodfather93]

Man, and here I thought Super was going in the right direction in regards to phasing out SSJ3, since Goku hasn't used it in ages. If he was going to bring it back, it would've made much more sense to use it against Gohan or Jiren, but to bust out a form that drains so much stamina just to show Caulifla, who's probably going to pull another transformation out of her ass? While he's already struggling to recover his strength after getting his ass beat by Jiren? Piss off. This has to be yet another 'brilliant' marketing decision by Toei to create even more potential merchandise.

I'm not a Super hater. I find the series entertaining a lot of the time, even though it has plenty of issues. But the constant adherence to flashy fanservice over substance makes it really hard to like the series sometimes. Ugh.

[Torturephile]

Hm, now the neogaf has been wiped off the face of the earth I wonder if all the users from the Dragonball Super thread will come here.

Funny that it happened the night a new Super ep aired.

Why did Neogaf get wiped off?

The site owner got struck with sexual assault allegations (again) and most moderators quit following that.
https://mobile.twitter.com/NeoGAFNewThr ... gr%5Etweet

[OverHeaven]

Shirtless SS3 Goku hype. Also, just as I've expected. Caulifla is totally getting that form. Goku didn't use it since episode 5 and he'll use it against her.

[Jigurashi]

Hm, now the neogaf has been wiped off the face of the earth I wonder if all the users from the Dragonball Super thread will come here.

Funny that it happened the night a new Super ep aired.

Why did Neogaf get wiped off?

The site owner got struck with sexual assault allegations (again) and most moderators quit following that.
https://mobile.twitter.com/NeoGAFNewThr ... gr%5Etweet

Lol what? The craziest part is that these allegations have been struck more than once.

An interesting character with a personality.

Cabba has a personality. You and others need to stop acting as if a character has no personality when they clearly do. Not every character needs to be super complex or eccentric or overly animated. Whether or not you find him interesting is subjective, I for one find him completely interesting and loved seeing him in action this episode.

Alright, I'll title up his personality to "basic bitch" since all he is is basic. He doesn't need to be super complex or eccentric or overly animated, he just needs to be interesting. He was interesting this episode, but before this he had absolutely nothing going for him. Got shit on since the beginning of the arc with Caulifla and Kale completely outclassing him, and he's been useless the entire tournament, occasionally we get small cuts to him getting his ass kicked by someone like Toppo. He just feels like a mixture of the worst/most boring parts of multiple other characters.

Cabba has a personality. You and others need to stop acting as if a character has no personality when they clearly do. Not every character needs to be super complex or eccentric or overly animated. Whether or not you find him interesting is subjective, I for one find him completely interesting and loved seeing him in action this episode.

Yeah, people in general say this stuff a lot. Commonly for Cabba and Jiren. Both have personalities, but what I feel is really the issue with their characters is that (mostly for Jiren at the moment) their personalities are extremely basic. The character is there, it's just with little depth.

If there's little depth to someone's personality then they may as well have no personality.

Having little depth doesn't mean they don't have a personality though. There's really no issue if you don't like the personality or find it boring, but I don't see how having little depth means you don't have personality.

[Asura]

-Can't stand Caulifla. She's a cocky Saiyan brute with a pair of boobs. So compelling. Kale is becoming a better character than her. KALE.

Kale's broly clone bullshit form can never be redeemed. It's awful and it will always be awful. However, Kale still has a chance of redemption herself, and so far I agree that she's slightly more interesting now that she's not a complete pussy, but she's still nowhere near Caulifla's level.

Caulifla did annoy me a bit this episode though, I won't lie. When Kale asked her if she was scared and she said she was scared of her own overwhelming power or something, I expected there to be a brief cut of her thinking/saying to herself that yeah, she actually is scared. But nope, just really annoying bravado. I like her arrogant and holier-than-thou attitude, but she should be feeling at least a bit overwhelmed/frightened after seeing how strong Goku is multiple times and how he still got bodied by Jiren, plus then seeing her team leader, Hit, get knocked out by said Jiren, it should all add up to her getting less cocky and more cautious. She's already a controversial character but people will start disliking her a lot more if her cockyness and Mary Sue like nature doesn't change at all.

Bad writing for Caulifla this episode. Boo!

Having little depth doesn't mean they don't have a personality though. There's really no issue if you don't like the personality or find it boring, but I don't see how having little depth means you don't have personality.

If a character has so little depth to them, it essentially means there's nothing to them. They have the most basic form of a personality, which may as well just be considered having no personality because it's basically the lowest common denominator as far as personalities go.

[HeroR]

Man, and here I thought Super was going in the right direction in regards to phasing out SSJ3, since Goku hasn't used it in ages. If he was going to bring it back, it would've made much more sense to use it against Gohan or Jiren, but to bust out a form that drains so much stamina just to show Caulifla, who's probably going to pull another transformation out of her ass? While he's already struggling to recover his strength after getting his ass beat by Jiren? Piss off. This has to be yet another 'brilliant' marketing decision by Toei to create even more potential merchandise.

I'm not a Super hater. I find the series entertaining a lot of the time, even though it has plenty of issues. But the constant adherence to flashy fanservice over substance makes it really hard to like the series sometimes. Ugh.

Super Saiyan 3 was used recently in the manga and Goku used Super Saiyan 3 in Episode 75. He also didn't used Super Saiyan 3 against Gohan because Gohan asked for his 'full power'. And if Goku is showing Cali how do Super Saiyan 3, it really isn't Cali pulling it out of her butt, no more than Vegeta showing Cabba Super Saiyan.

[Li'l Lemmy]

Cabba at least somewhat suffers for his transformations. Yeah, there's a bullshit magical quality to people getting new forms these days, but he at least gets triggered. Cauli will probably fart and get SSj3, thereby completing her mockery of Goku's lifetime of pain and sacrifice by getting all three of the basic SSj forms in about as many days.

I don't have any overwhelming issue with Cabba as a character, but damn did I loathe him in this episode. All of Vegeta's interactions with him could have been with kid Trunks instead, if anyone had bothered to bring him; instead I have to watch Vegeta play tsundere with his new son and grumble about what could have been.

[Super Saiyan Swagger]

I don't have any overwhelming issue with Cabba as a character, but damn did I loathe him in this episode. All of Vegeta's interactions with him could have been with kid Trunks instead, if anyone had bothered to bring him; instead I have to watch Vegeta play tsundere with his new son and grumble about what could have been.

It wouldn't have had the same effect if it was with Trunks. Vegeta reveals that he wants the Saiyan race of Universe 6 to survive through their possible erasure by wishing them back with the Super Dragon Balls. He's already lost his own Saiyan race, he doesn't want to lose another one, even if they are from another universe. I really like that.

When interacting with Cabba, Vegeta has this Saiyan leader persona that he never had the chance of using to anyone else because he lost his own people, but the fact that a whole other Saiyan race exists in another universe that Vegeta can help out is obviously interesting to him. I really want to see what happens when he goes to Planet Sadala (if that ever happens).

[TheGodfather93]

Man, and here I thought Super was going in the right direction in regards to phasing out SSJ3, since Goku hasn't used it in ages. If he was going to bring it back, it would've made much more sense to use it against Gohan or Jiren, but to bust out a form that drains so much stamina just to show Caulifla, who's probably going to pull another transformation out of her ass? While he's already struggling to recover his strength after getting his ass beat by Jiren? Piss off. This has to be yet another 'brilliant' marketing decision by Toei to create even more potential merchandise.

I'm not a Super hater. I find the series entertaining a lot of the time, even though it has plenty of issues. But the constant adherence to flashy fanservice over substance makes it really hard to like the series sometimes. Ugh.

Super Saiyan 3 was used recently in the manga and Goku used Super Saiyan 3 in Episode 75. He also didn't used Super Saiyan 3 against Gohan because Gohan asked for his 'full power'. And if Goku is showing Cali how do Super Saiyan 3, it really isn't Cali pulling it out of her butt, no more than Vegeta showing Cabba Super Saiyan.

When was it used in the manga? Unless I'm mistaken, the last time Goku used SSJ3 in the manga was when he fought Trunks, which I don't think counts as recently. Anyway, when I said it's another form that Caulifla is going to pull out of her ass, I was talking about how she learnt SSJ1 and SSJ2 in the space of a few minutes, and is now supposedly going to learn SSJ3 a day or so later. It's absurd. Goku had to train in the afterlife for seven years to get SSJ3. Goten and Trunks, who are prodigies themselves, needed up to two weeks of concentrated training in a magical room, as a fused being no less, to learn SSJ3. Caulifla's situation just can't compare. It's turning the Super Saiyan transformations into an even bigger joke than they already are.

Cabba learning SSJ1 from Vegeta makes a lot more sense, since he was clearly strong enough to achieve the form, he just needed the proper motivation. Plus, it's just SSJ1. Even Goten and Trunks as kids could turn SSJ1 with ease, but they never went SSJ2, which is a form Gohan, Goku, Vegeta and Future Trunks had to go through intense training (and intense mental trauma in the case of Gohan and Trunks) to achieve.

[Super Saiyan Swagger]

When was it used in the manga? Unless I'm mistaken, the last time Goku used SSJ3 in the manga was when he fought Trunks, which I don't think counts as recently.

He used it in the latest chapter against Toppo.