Super Episode 114 (5 November 2017)

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Re: Super Episode 114 (5 November 2017)

Post by TheOne » Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:49 pm

Animation was spot on! They need to keep this up.

Am I the only one who is bothered by how easily kefla is making a joke of SSG? The same form that Beerus was impressed with not too long ago? If kefla was this powerful then Vegetto would’ve been able to show Beerus a good time. Which would’ve made SSG unnecessary. Sometimes I wonder how Toei/Toriyama can look back on this stuff and say they’ve done a good job with series when there are glaring issues like that? It kinda looks like they’re making it up as they go along :wtf:

Overall cool episode. I really hope Frieza steps in and wipes the floor with her.
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Re: Super Episode 114 (5 November 2017)

Post by Noah » Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:49 pm

My goodness, this episode was magnificent! Way better than last week, for sure!

- Good thing they showed a few moments of Vegeta vs. Toppo, NEP will see more about Gohan and Piccolo fights, nice :thumbup:

- I don't get it? Kale turned into LSSJ but then came back to 'control' so it means she mastered the form that not even Broly could? That's quite an interesting concept :)

- I was just waiting for Freeza knock out that U3 Policeman, who was amazing in this episode by the way! :D

- Did Goku used a little energy blast from his feet? They could use this strategy more :think:

- I'm not the only who got that Goku stopping Freeza attempt to attack the Saiyans girls was a reference to this?

- So Caulifla could figure it out Goku's Instant Transmission tactic and Gohan couldn't? What a shame :P

- Did Goku used Sokidan on Caulifla? Cause that was AWESOME! :mrgreen:

- Caulifla was not able to stand on foot before fusing with Kale, she was weak. Doesn't that impact on the fusion? :think:

- Man I really digging Kefla personality, I mean will she be a playful fighter just like Gotenks? :D

- By the NEP it seems that Goku will need to use Blue + Kaioken to top LSSJ Kefla, this should be an interesting match :)
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Re: Super Episode 114 (5 November 2017)

Post by Lord Beerus » Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:53 pm

Fantastic episode. Best episode since the double episode/special.

I know I'll just going to repeating what has already been said but the art-style was jaw-droppingly amazing. Dragon Ball has not look that good since the Studio Cockpit lead episodes in Z.

I really loved the payoff of Kale and Caulifla relationship. Kale grew so much as a character. She went from being a Broly mythology gag to her own full fledged Saiyan character and the show brilliantly demonstrated that with her ditching her SSJ Berserker form and maintaining her original SSJ form. She's come a long way from being Broly 2.0. and I couldn't be happier. But this I'm really happy about the most is that the show made Kale and Caulifla's relationship actually mean something beyond lip service. It made the concept of them fusing together all more meaningful and poetic, and even made the events of Episode 113 feel more significant, because in hindsight, it was laying down the foundation to what would eventually happen with Kale being more confident in herself, controlling her SSJ Beserker form and eventually Kale and Caulfia fusing to demonstrate that their bond can make a significant difference in battle. Fantastic stuff. Also, their first bump was the cutest and greatest thing ever.

Freeza, as usual, stole the fucking show. Katopesla was going full Kamen Rider/Super Sentai, and Freeza just no sold that shit.

"I'll ignore that."

God I love Freeza in this arc. He's just the best. :lol: :clap:

I don't enjoy being blue balled. So Super, please just give us Vegeta vs Toppo already. I so wanna see that fight.

I'm really digging Kefla's design and personality. it's a neat hybrid. Also, I can see now why Toriyama and Toei didn't want to touch Potara again. It's stupidly broken. Base Kefla being able to speedblitz and dominate even a tired SSJG is quite extreme. I'm guessing that much like Goku and Vegeta had their "rivalry boost" to make Vegetto stronger, Kale and Caulifla must have that "lesbian sexual tension" that makes Kefla more powerful.

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Re: Super Episode 114 (5 November 2017)

Post by Cetra » Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:53 pm

Noah wrote: - I don't get it? Kale turned into LSSJ but then came back to 'control' so it means she mastered the form that not even Broly could? That's quite an interesting concept :)
Broly was fully conscious and enjoyed every bit of using his power. He just needed to release the energy sometimes ... man, that sounds wrong. Anyway, he could, she could not. Until now and then she channeled it instead of using it in the same form (which is kinda unfortunate? she seemed to be able to earlier in another episode) What Kale did reminded me heavily of Oozaru -> SSJ4 Goku.
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Re: Super Episode 114 (5 November 2017)

Post by Sandubadear » Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:59 pm

Salad of vegetables, it's healthier if you eat with a lot of colors :thumbup:

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Re: Super Episode 114 (5 November 2017)

Post by giovanni02 » Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:59 pm

TheOne wrote:Animation was spot on! They need to keep this up.

Am I the only one who is bothered by how easily kefla is making a joke of SSG? The same form that Beerus was impressed with not too long ago? If kefla was this powerful then Vegetto would’ve been able to show Beerus a good time. Which would’ve made SSG unnecessary. Sometimes I wonder how Toei/Toriyama can look back on this stuff and say they’ve done a good job with series when there are glaring issues like that? It kinda looks like they’re making it up as they go along :wtf:

Overall cool episode. I really hope Frieza steps in and wipes the floor with her.
I think Goku and Vegeta wouldn't have fused to fight Beerus, since Beerus was not a fused being, and they only use fusion against those who are using it in the first place (and with a lot of difficulty already lol). I do believe though that Vegetto SSJ3 would be able to entertain Beerus as much as SSJ Blue with Kaioken 4x or something along those lines. I did get a little bit bothered with her making a joke of SSG, but since it's potara I believe it's passable, after all, anyone can use potaras, it's not like they obtained a new transformation out of thin air or anything. And I do hope Frieza is the one to finish her off, he seems like he would steal the potaras and possibly give them to Goku and Vegeta later haha. From the preview, though, it seems like Kefla will meet her challenge with Goku Blue, at least she looks damaged and is already using LSSJ.

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Re: Super Episode 114 (5 November 2017)

Post by Kataphrut » Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:00 pm

What can I say, bloody fantastic episode yet again. It's amazing how much life has been injected into the show since the special. The stakes are clearer, character motivation is informing action and the animation is through the roof.

The fighting itself was a lot of fun, much like last week it went back and forth for a while until Goku's God transformation established a pretty clear hard limit. Caulifla and Kale's teamwork was great to see, even as it all fell apart once the red hair came out. And, yes, the shipping fuel is on fire. I'm a little disappointed we didn't see the moment of impact with the fusion, but Kafla's debut was fun nontheless. I love how she zipped by God Goku fast enough to freak him out, but almost tripped over herself as she did. Like, she doesn't immediately have a handle on her own strength. Next episode is going to be fun.

On the whole, this really was just a continuation of last week's episode, with the next episode looking to get back to feeling more like a battle royale. We got a few more cutaways to other characters, but it was mostly for reactions. The halftime show with Freeza and the space cop was funny, but jarring as hell. Also, Dyspo of the "Justice Universe" doesn't want to deal with Freeza, but this guy is taking him on with gusto? Why isn't he on Universe 11?

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Re: Super Episode 114 (5 November 2017)

Post by Noah » Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:01 pm

OLKv3 wrote:[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
I missed that guy! :lol: :clap:
Torturephile wrote:Seriously, who makes these? I love these comics.
It's a mystery that we try to discover for several months now, I wish somebody had a compilation of all these :D
Sandubadear wrote: I wouldn't really mind if base Kafla was beating SSJ3 Goku, but God is completely nonsensical. Goku God is supposedly stronger than pre-BoG Vegetto, so a fusion of some weakass Saiyans who barely got SSJ2 shouldn't be beating God.
Are you seriously still wishing for this series make sense with power levels? Give up man, just try to enjoy the series for what it is, no matter how nonsensical it has become :lol:
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Artorias wrote:If anything, this episode proves that it's impossible to make Caulifla and Kale interesting. It was written by Toshio, Super's best writer, and even HE couldn't do anything with their characters.
I disagree. The episode shows that Kale and Caulifla play off each-other fantastically, from a character and personality standpoint.
I also disagree and we all know that I despise both characters, but in this actual episode they were pretty good in terms of characterization.
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Re: Super Episode 114 (5 November 2017)

Post by Cabba » Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:14 pm

This episode was so much hype, I loved it and it fixed the inconsistency introduced in episode 100 with Berserk withstanding a Kamehameha from blue, this confirms Goku blue can diminish his energy to test opponents like he did against Krillin
SSG was shown as superior to Kale Berserk+ i loved that consistency and how it owned Kale and Caulifla
[spoiler]Image
Image
Image[/spoiler]
About NEP, i think Blue defeated means Goku is going to use Kaioken Blue to match or exceed Kefura

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Re: Super Episode 114 (5 November 2017)

Post by Kataphrut » Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:16 pm

OLKv3 wrote:[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
Looking at it that way, it does make Goku seem like some sort of masochist, which wouldn't be completely out of character. "Oh yes, hit me. Hit me harder."

He's also a thief, and this episode was basically watching a kleptomaniac in action. Like, he apologised to Tien for stealing the solar flare, but at least that's kind of a free-for-all move. He also nicked the Spirit Ball from Yamcha out of nowhere and even stole Yusuke's Spirit Gun! That's not even the same show! It was bad enough that since Black everybody's been ripping off Kuwabara's Spirit Sword but now this too. I suppose it's just as well there's no weapons allowed or we'd be looking out for the Rose Whip as well.

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Re: Super Episode 114 (5 November 2017)

Post by giovanni02 » Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:21 pm

Cabba wrote:This episode was so much hype, I loved it and it fixed the inconsistency introduced in episode 100 with Berserk withstanding a Kamehameha from blue, this confirms Goku blue can diminish his energy to test opponents like he did against Krillin
SSG was shown as superior to Kale Berserk+ i loved that consistency and how it owned Kale and Caulifla
[spoiler]Image
Image
Image[/spoiler]
About NEP, i think Blue defeated means Goku is going to use Kaioken Blue to match or exceed Kefura
Yeah, I think Goku can also highly control his Base Form energy, as he was fighting SSJ2 in Base Form (martial arts differences asides, it's the difference between blowing a planet and a solar system, seriously lol). That would explain a lot, especially the Frieza Saga, Goku and Vegeta just keep reducing their base level to about Boo Saga level to keep the fights interesting and when they need something more they transform for the cool effect and/or fanservice.

And I think Blue Kaioken 10x or 20x should be more than enough to take care of Kefla unless she gets a new LSSJ boost. But at the current near-SSJ2 level, around 4x Kaioken should be enough to deal with them I suppose. Though hopefully Frieza will take them out and steal the potaras.

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Re: Super Episode 114 (5 November 2017)

Post by Tombstone1988 » Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:22 pm

Artorias wrote:I've been seeing a lot of people say they liked this "version" of the fight more than last week's, and I couldn't disagree more. Neither fight was a 10/10 or anything, but last weeks had a much better flow to it to me. This episode, for as great as the ART was, I found the actual fighting to be sloppy and awkward as hell. It was clearly rushed overall.
When you say this, are you referring to the animation, the pacing, or both? In terms of the animation, I'd agree; as great as the art was, the animation was a little on the rushed side. In terms of pacing though, this one actually seemed to be moving forward. Last week felt like padding, whereas this week the fight felt like it had weight and progression. When characters took hits this episode, it actually felt like damage was being inflicted. I mean, Caulifla could barely stand by the end of the episode. The transition from Goku fighting in a weaker state (SSJ2) to fighting in a stronger state (SSG) also felt like it had more impact. As I've said before, the visuals didn't do a good job of portraying Goku's increase in power last week. This week, however, you could clearly tell he was faring better against Kale and causing a lot more harm to Caulifla as an SSG than as an SSJ2. To me, this episode just felt better in terms of execution, which is why I say it has a better flow.
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Re: Super Episode 114 (5 November 2017)

Post by Xeztin » Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:26 pm

Very good episode, Seems Kalefla will have Kale's forms. Kale mastered Broly's LSSJ form and now has that power under control in her normal SSJ form. (That makes her taller for some reason.) I'm bothered they called the LSSJ form Berserk and not even bother to explain the green SSJ hair or the way her SSJ form changes her height. Is it unique to her? I wonder if Broly will be on planet Sadala as Kales brother or something?

Anyways great episode!!! :clap:

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Re: Super Episode 114 (5 November 2017)

Post by TheShadowEmperor8055 » Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:28 pm

Noah wrote: - I'm not the only who got that Goku stopping Freeza attempt to attack the Saiyans girls was a reference to this?
No, I recognized that one too. :wave:

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Re: Super Episode 114 (5 November 2017)

Post by Zagacious » Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:28 pm

Good to finally see the fusion, I knew after the spoiler of fusion was released they were going to jack around for 3 episodes before it happened though, can't say I'm surprised, of course they had to wait to the very last second to show the fusion, there's really no reason for episode 113 to even exist now as it's the same as this episode but far more pointless just to drag things on. I'm fine with them spending this much time on the U6 saiyans, but they're dragging this on now as long as possible, so much more should have happened in this time period of episodes 112-114.
avasatu wrote:Great animation, decent but not great modeling. The pace was choppy, and there was too much talking. I need more choreographed fighting from Super. I've been lax on it until now, but I have to begin speaking my mind on the issue. The fights we do get are incredibly short and chopped up, and there is 1-5 seconds of actual choreography per fight, in total, on average. Not acceptable in 2017. I have great respect for the animators and realize all too well how hard it is to make anime, so I will never speak negatively of the staff at Toei, but I believe they can certainly do better in this aspect.
This is my main complaint about the fights, it feels like they're over before they even begin, which also makes these episodes 112-114 more pointless than they need to be. People talk about how great the Hit vs Dyspo fight was but it was INCREDIBLY short, like total maybe 2 minutes of actual action where they weren't just staring at each other. This needs to stop because it's going to make a majority of the fights entirely forgettable. It doesn't matter if they look awesome if they're incredibly short.
Last edited by Zagacious on Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Super Episode 114 (5 November 2017)

Post by Cabba » Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:30 pm

Sandubadear wrote:Good episode, superb art, but man, why can't Super make even a little bit of sense? I wouldn't really mind if base Kafla was beating SSJ3 Goku, but God is completely nonsensical. Goku God is supposedly stronger than pre-BoG Vegetto, so a fusion of some weakass Saiyans who barely got SSJ2 shouldn't be beating God.
And that's because I don't care much for power levels! The guys at the power level thread must be going crazy!!!
Bolded is where your reasoning falls apart and part of the reason it doesn't make sense to you. Power levels dont stay static, SS2 Goku didnt get stuck in DBZ levels hell base Goku is probably as strong if not more than Majin Saga SS2
Goku and Vegeta SS2 are more or less on the Vegeto tier from DBZ now. Cauli was almost as powerful as Goku SS2 and Kale Berserk+ surpassed him. It makes sense their fusion would be much more powerful than DBZ based Vegetto

I just hope they reserve/Keep Ultra instinct Goku for Jirens fight, UI Goku should still be on a different dimension of power otherwise it would take importance away from the form that was just recently introduced
Hopefully Blue 10xKaioken is enough to take Kefura down
giovanni02 wrote:[
Yeah, I think Goku can also highly control his Base Form energy, as he was fighting SSJ2 in Base Form (martial arts differences asides, it's the difference between blowing a planet and a solar system, seriously lol). That would explain a lot, especially the Frieza Saga, Goku and Vegeta just keep reducing their base level to about Boo Saga level to keep the fights interesting and when they need something more they transform for the cool effect and/or fanservice.

And I think Blue Kaioken 10x or 20x should be more than enough to take care of Kefla unless she gets a new LSSJ boost. But at the current near-SSJ2 level, around 4x Kaioken should be enough to deal with them I suppose. Though hopefully Frieza will take them out and steal the potaras.
Yep, i would put Base Goku and Vegeta at DBZ SSJ2 tier and their SSJ2 transformations at aproximately DBZ Vegetto tier now
Bolded: Who would he use it with though? lol

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Re: Super Episode 114 (5 November 2017)

Post by majinwarman » Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:33 pm

Anyways great episode!!! :clap:[/quote]
Baggie_Saiyan wrote:I called them already having the Potara! It was super obvious! Also yes. The Broly homage is overrrrrrrr. They got #100 out their system and we have moved on! Goku and Freeza are still a joy to watch this arc, especially Freeza "I will ignore that" :lol: dude his hilarious. Also this just proves how smart, resourceful and a great fighter Goku is, he is so cool! A freakin energy blast from his foot! How often do we see that!

Also Daisuki is still 1080p yay! :D
Man I just love Goku using some classic moves and Freeza is the best. I really liked this episode and can't wait for the next.
Xeztin wrote:Very good episode, Seems Kalefla will have Kale's forms. Kale mastered Broly's LSSJ form and now has that power under control in her normal SSJ form. (That makes her taller for some reason.) I'm bothered they called the LSSJ form Berserk and not even bother to explain the green SSJ hair or the way her SSJ form changes her height. Is it unique to her? I wonder if Broly will be on planet Sadala as Kales brother or something?
I wonder why does Kalefla have Kale's super Saiyan hair.
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Re: Super Episode 114 (5 November 2017)

Post by TheShadowEmperor8055 » Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:34 pm

Also, so berserker Kale tanks an SSB Kamehameha, but (a fatigued) SSG Goku tanks a berserker Kale kikoha? Huh. Either SSB Goku was holding back hella before or it's just Super being Super. Either way, it's all confusing.

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Re: Super Episode 114 (5 November 2017)

Post by Lord Beerus » Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:35 pm

Does this episode pretty confirm that Goku can make SSJB as strong as he wants it to? I mean, that case was the most blatant and in-your-face with the Kamehameha beam struggle with Krillin in Episode 84, but given how events transpired in Episode 100 and here in Episode 114, I think it's safe to say that Goku has made SSJB his defacto form in that he can make SSJB as powerful or as weak as he needs or wants it to be. Kale simply overhyped from the get-go and was never SSJB or SSJG tier to begin with. Here walking through SSJB Goku's Kamehameha was simply a red herring in terms of how powerful she was. In fact, individually, both Kale and Caulifa are both below a fatigued SSJG Goku. But them fused together brings them to above that tier of strength. Which would tie into Vados' statement of Potara making the fused user tens of times stronger. It actually all works together pretty well when you think about it.

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Re: Super Episode 114 (5 November 2017)

Post by HeroR » Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:38 pm

TheShadowEmperor8055 wrote:Also, so berserker Kale tanks an SSB Kamehameha, but (a fatigued) SSG Goku tanks a berserker Kale kikoha? Huh. Either SSB Goku was holding back hella before or it's just Super being Super. Either way, it's all confusing.
Kale is a tank. She takes attacks, but her attacks seemed to be fairly weak. Like Berserk Kale couldn't really hurt Super Saiyan 2 Goku, but Goku couldn't escape either and went to Blue. Even then, Super Saiyan God Goku and Kale were more or less even with neither of them doing any real damaged to each other.
Lord Beerus wrote:Does this episode pretty confirm that Goku can make SSJB as strong as he wants it to? I mean, that case was the most blatant and in-your-face with the Kamehameha beam struggle with Krillin in Episode 84, but given how events transpired in Episode 100 and here in Episode 114, I think it's safe to say that Goku has made SSJB his defacto form in that he can make SSJB as powerful or as weak as he needs or wants it to be. Kale simply overhyped from the get-go and was never SSJB or SSJG tier to begin with. Here walking through SSJB Goku's Kamehameha was simply a red herring in terms of how powerful she was. In fact, individually, both Kale and Caulifa are both below a fatigued SSJG Goku. But them fused together brings them to above that tier of strength. Which would tie into Vados' statement of Potara making the fused user tens of times stronger. It actually all works together pretty well when you think about it.
She is a "god-tier" since she fought evenly with Super Saiyan God Goku and Goku's attack did no damaged to her. She even deflected on his blasts. Also, the episode said that Goku was surpassing his limits. Heck, Jiren even reacted to Kale powering up when he gave two-shits about Golden Freeza or Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Vegeta.
Last edited by HeroR on Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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