Super Episode 114 (5 November 2017)

[giovanni02]

Yep, i would put Base Goku and Vegeta at DBZ SSJ2 tier and their SSJ2 transformations at aproximately DBZ Vegetto tier now
Bolded: Who would he use it with though? lol

I'd hope he'd give them to Goku and Vegeta when things get though. But hell, that's just the hope in me for Vegetto, might be hard but one can hope haha. Yeah, but I do think however that SSJ2 Caulifla is probably at the SSJ2 Boo Saga level, because unlike Goku and Vegeta they haven't seem much difficulty on Universe 6, I mean they didn't even unlock SSJ1. Goku and the others achieved lots of zenkais and trained with Whis, that's much more than you can get from just training and especially training without being in any kind of real danger. I think he just holds back to have interesting fights, but he could totally use around God power in base form, like he did against Beerus.

[Jigurashi]

Does this episode pretty confirm that Goku can make SSJB as strong as he wants it to? I mean, that case was the most blatant and in-your-face with the Kamehameha beam struggle with Krillin in Episode 84, but given how events transpired in Episode 100 and here in Episode 114, I think it's safe to say that Goku has made SSJB his defacto form in that he can make SSJB as powerful or as weak as he needs or wants it to be. Kale simply overhyped from the get-go and was never SSJB or SSJG tier to begin with. Here walking through SSJB Goku's Kamehameha was simply a red herring in terms of how powerful she was. In fact, individually, both Kale and Caulifa are both below a fatigued SSJG Goku. But them fused together brings them to above that tier of strength. Which would tie into Vados' statement of Potara making the fused user tens of times stronger. It actually all works together pretty well when you think about it.

Yes. People need to just accept that SSB Goku can regulate his power to whatever he wants.

[Artorias]

I've been seeing a lot of people say they liked this "version" of the fight more than last week's, and I couldn't disagree more. Neither fight was a 10/10 or anything, but last weeks had a much better flow to it to me. This episode, for as great as the ART was, I found the actual fighting to be sloppy and awkward as hell. It was clearly rushed overall.

When you say this, are you referring to the animation, the pacing, or both? In terms of the animation, I'd agree; as great as the art was, the animation was a little on the rushed side. In terms of pacing though, this one actually seemed to be moving forward. Last week felt like padding, whereas this week the fight felt like it had weight and progression. When characters took hits this episode, it actually felt like damage was being inflicted. I mean, Caulifla could barely stand by the end of the episode. The transition from Goku fighting in a weaker state (SSJ2) to fighting in a stronger state (SSG) also felt like it had more impact. As I've said before, the visuals didn't do a good job of portraying Goku's increase in power last week. This week, however, you could clearly tell he was faring better against Kale and causing a lot more harm to Caulifla as an SSG than as an SSJ2. To me, this episode just felt better in terms of execution, which is why I say it has a better flow.

I'm talking mainly animation, and a bit of directing. I just found the the actual fight itself to look really sloppy and slow. It just wasn't a very engaging battle to me. The art was phenomenal, but the second it started moving I found it to be pretty mediocre, even by Super standards.

It was just weird to me to have such a gorgeous episode in terms of art coupled with largely unremarkable actual animation.

[MajinMan]

On a side note, THANK GOD Broly-Kale is gone. I was hopeful that this episode would finally do away with that schtick, and I am happy they actually did. Kale can finally be her own character now that Broly's ugly mug isn't consuming her anymore. I still don't really care for her all too much, but this is how it should have been from the start. Glad Super got that shit out of the way.

[Kaiosama]

Lol at Vegeta's cocky ass saying he's "The best saiyan" What a delusional moron. Can't wait to see Toppo or Jiren trash him.

[Jigurashi]

Lol at Vegeta's cocky ass saying he's "The best saiyan" What a delusional moron. Can't wait to see Toppo or Jiren trash him.

It'll probably be Jiren.

[Danfun64]

So Kale and Caulifla have Potara fused. There's only one proper response to this...

Vegetto/Gogeta or riot

[Drellz26]

So the potaras aren’t cheating?

[Noah]

Lol at Vegeta's cocky ass saying he's "The best saiyan" What a delusional moron. Can't wait to see Toppo or Jiren trash him.

Delusional for whom? He punched Toppo after he said that. Knows that Goku got UI by mere luck and don't know how to active again, he also trained and I hope that this "best Saiyan" thing is not usual Vegeta bragging about himself but yes that he has something up his sleeve.

So the potaras aren’t cheating?

Nah, I guess only weapons and healing items are forbidden.

[precita]

So the potaras aren’t cheating?

Since they already had the potaras and Champa didn't throw it to them from the stands, no it's not cheating.

[Cabba]

Either SSB Goku was holding back hella before or it's just Super being Super. Either way, it's all confusing.

Thats the right answer, SSB Goku holding back, there is a precedent for this in his fight against Krillin
It makes much more sense for SSG Goku to be stronger than Berserk+ Kale , she is likely not that far off SSG though. To make an analogy it would be a similar difference as Namek Saga 50% Final Form Freeza vs Pre SSJ Goku
Its interesting how characters who lack God ki achieve similar results through sheer raw power, like Golden Freeza, Kale or Kefura in next episode

Does this episode pretty confirm that Goku can make SSJB as strong as he wants it to?

Yep and it also explains inconsistencies on past episodes like Krillins Kamehameha pushin SSB Gokus for a brief moment
[spoiler]



[/spoiler]

She is a "god-tier" since she fought evenly with Super Saiyan God Goku and Goku's attack did no damaged to her. She even deflected on his blasts. Also, the episode said that Goku was surpassing his limits. Heck, Jiren even reacted to Kale powering up when he gave two-shits about Golden Freeza or Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan Vegeta.

Yeah she is god tier, but still slightly below SSG Goku, this episode made clear Gokus SGG superiority while fighting both at the same time and the Reason why Caulifla told Kale to fuse
The reason for Jirens reaction its because its something new and its not like a big reaction anyways he barely flinched his hand, Berserk+ ki feel different than God Ki. Jiren is already familiar with that and with SSB. Berserk utilizes sheer raw power to get on the God tier. The tremendous amount of regular old brute force ki that must take to reach that God tier its whats impressive . Berserk+ is below SSG after all let alone Blue

[Kaiosama]

Lol at Vegeta's cocky ass saying he's "The best saiyan" What a delusional moron. Can't wait to see Toppo or Jiren trash him.

Delusional for whom? He punched Toppo after he said that. Knows that Goku got UI by mere luck and don't know how to active again, he also trained and I hope that this "best Saiyan" thing is not usual Vegeta bragging about himself but yes that he has something up his sleeve.

So the potaras aren’t cheating?

Nah, I guess only weapons and healing items are forbidden.

Vegeta doesn't have KKX20 or UI. Unless the writers give him UI in this tourney (which would be horrible writing) he's going to get wrecked either by Toppo or Jiren. Does he have MSSB?

[Cetra]

On a side note, THANK GOD Broly-Kale is gone. I was hopeful that this episode would finally do away with that schtick, and I am happy they actually did. Kale can finally be her own character now that Broly's ugly mug isn't consuming her anymore. I still don't really care for her all too much, but this is how it should have been from the start. Glad Super got that shit out of the way.

Inbefore she does it again and people do the same thing as with SSJG and SSJ to Ultimate aka "but we fans know they cannot do it anymore so it is a fact".

[Noah]

Vegeta doesn't have KKX20 or UI. Unless the writers give him UI in this tourney (which would be horrible writing) he's going to get wrecked either by Toppo or Jiren. Does he have MSSB?

MSSJB is manga only. Vegeta could pretty much have a technique that rivals the Kaioken boost, he's very calm for someone who saw a guy like Jiren moments ago. I think he has something...

[Cabba]

I'd hope he'd give them to Goku and Vegeta when things get though. But hell, that's just the hope in me for Vegetto

Nah.. fuck that, this arc is all about Ultra Instinct thats the main dish, just like the main dish of Namek saga was SSJ and the main dish of Cell Saga was SSJ2, are people forgetting it so soon how UI Goku managed to fight evenly with Jiren. Sure we dont know if Jiren was using his full power but we also know Ultra Instinct its getting a boost when Goku finally controls it. Vegetto would take importance away from UI and remove its impact, besides Vegetto is nerfed, he is too powerful for his own good he cant exist for more than a few minutes

You are also underestimating the U6 saiyans, just because they didnt find themselves in a rage inducing situations to become SSJ2 doesn't mean their base power isnt incredibly strong which is why Cauliflas SSJ2 form is not that far below Gokus

Lol at Vegeta's cocky ass saying he's "The best saiyan" What a delusional moron. Can't wait to see Toppo or Jiren trash him.

Delusional for whom? He punched Toppo after he said that. Knows that Goku got UI by mere luck and don't know how to active again, he also trained and I hope that this "best Saiyan" thing is not usual Vegeta bragging about himself but yes that he has something up his sleeve.

Yep, it was obvious he meant stronger without considering UI which as far as he knows was a one time thing
He is pushing Toppo back without using his full power yet. Not to mention the twitter comment from DBS staff about Vegeta and Goku not showing their true power yet, he likely got an important breakthrough which would explain his confidence after he finished training in the RoSaT which was similar to when he finished his training in the Black arc. I'm hopping this puts him at least on par with Goku Blue Kaioken x20

Fixed editing is a bitch hahaha

[Noah]

^ Mate, you just quote me twice

[SansrivaaL]

Very fun episode! told ya'll Goku's line from ep 100 meant something, he was holding back, a lot.
Now that Kale not at God level is finally dealt with, this ep was so lit thanks to Yuya Takahashi! those smug spirit gun Goku shots and spirit wave ones, felt like those were nods to Yu Yu Hakusho, and the move in the OP that Goku was playing around with was actually used as a move in the episode! I thought they wouldnt use that. I hope we get more from him in the near future or at least on the Goku V Jiren PT2.
Only downside was.. Base Kefla speedblitzing SSJG Goku, granted he is still tired but still... that did not look good.

[Cabba]

Vegeta doesn't have KKX20 or UI. Unless the writers give him UI in this tourney (which would be horrible writing) he's going to get wrecked either by Toppo or Jiren. Does he have MSSB?

Easy, Vegeta SSB is superior to Toppo, and Jiren is only fighting Goku
Hopefully Vegeta is now as strong if not more than Goku Blue Kaiokenx20

[Noah]

... and the move in the OP that Goku was playing around with was actually used as a move in the episode! I thought they wouldnt use that. I hope we get more from him in the near future or at least on the Goku V Jiren PT2.

You mean Yamcha's Sokidan?

[TheShadowEmperor8055]

Does this episode pretty confirm that Goku can make SSJB as strong as he wants it to? I mean, that case was the most blatant and in-your-face with the Kamehameha beam struggle with Krillin in Episode 84, but given how events transpired in Episode 100 and here in Episode 114, I think it's safe to say that Goku has made SSJB his defacto form in that he can make SSJB as powerful or as weak as he needs or wants it to be. Kale simply overhyped from the get-go and was never SSJB or SSJG tier to begin with. Here walking through SSJB Goku's Kamehameha was simply a red herring in terms of how powerful she was. In fact, individually, both Kale and Caulifa are both below a fatigued SSJG Goku.

Which of course, is what I also thought, but there are those that actually believe berserker Kale was SSB level from her walking through SSB Goku's Kamehameha.