Super Episode 114 (5 November 2017)

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Re: Super Episode 114 (5 November 2017)

Post by dbs fanboy » Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:37 am

Totamo wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:
Totamo wrote: Not in the manga , zamasu was said to not be permanent. Then again the manga and the anime are very different when it comes to that so, maybe you are right. This is on Toei.


and i don't think that was said in the anime or manga versions that vegito line.
The whole "Even Vegetto wouldn't enough to defeat Beerus" was in the anime retelling of BOG but not in the manga retelling of the BOG.
The anime really loves shoot themselves in the foot. its like when they made base vegetto curbstomp buuhan.
That's hilariously sad, just like making Ft Trunks hair blue and change things up so it seems it's always been like that (talking about anime version)
Last edited by dbs fanboy on Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Super Episode 114 (5 November 2017)

Post by Lord Beerus » Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:47 am

Kafla's strength in her base form is far from a big issue for me. Kale and Caulifla at this stage could finger flick anyone in Z. They're fucking beats in the strength department when you take into consideration that the main cast are far stronger than their Majin Boo arc counterparts. A lot of shit has happened since SSJ3 Goku fought Beerus on King Kai's planet, that I'm honestly really surprised that people still put SSJ Vegetto in the Majin Boo arc on such a pedestal when he's really nothing compared to what we've seen in Super so far. The top tier characters in Super are dozens upon dozens of time stronger than anything we see in Z. It may like a radical jump in power, but it's happened.

Plus, the Potara is stupidly powerful in how much of boost it gives the fused user. I really don't see Base Kale being at least on par with a weakened SSJG Goku that much of an issue.

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Re: Super Episode 114 (5 November 2017)

Post by Forte224 » Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:51 am

Story wise I wasn't a fan. Didn't Blue Goku's Kamehameha not even make Kale flinch when she first went berserk? Now she's mastered that power, and a drained Goku fended her off with a small blue Ki blast for a while. Also I really don't like Kale of Caulifla. They're getting to strong to fast and it's being shoved in our faces, like "GUYZ LOOK HOW STRONG THEY ARE!!" Otherwise it was a fun episode and the animation was nice.

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Re: Super Episode 114 (5 November 2017)

Post by SansrivaaL » Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:57 am

I just noticed something in the sub, in the part where Goku was shaking the sub said its because of *her* saiyan instinct, thats not right, he's talking about himself, his saiyan instincts are kicking in, he's excited to fight them to the point of stopping Freeza and solo them.

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Re: Super Episode 114 (5 November 2017)

Post by RedHeat » Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:59 am

Forte224 wrote:Story wise I wasn't a fan. Didn't Blue Goku's Kamehameha not even make Kale flinch when she first went berserk? Now she's mastered that power, and a drained Goku fended her off with a small blue Ki blast for a while. Also I really don't like Kale of Caulifla. They're getting to strong to fast and it's being shoved in our faces, like "GUYZ LOOK HOW STRONG THEY ARE!!" Otherwise it was a fun episode and the animation was nice.
I mean, they have to get very strong very fast because the plot requires it. If people had it their way, they would be instantly fodderized by Super Saiyan God Goku, and their fusion would be moot.
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Re: Super Episode 114 (5 November 2017)

Post by gohan_black » Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:04 am

kefla is stronger then red ssj god? bullshit. the power scaling in super is a fucking joke. kefla isnt even stronger then base vegito on the buu sega

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Re: Super Episode 114 (5 November 2017)

Post by dbs fanboy » Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:15 am

Doctor. wrote:Also, the two fused while transformed, so... here's (another) plot hole for you.
But we don't know if they were transformed when they fused or not. Everything went dark, and boom new character born from (lesbian?) love.


Doctor wrote:
Why do people not seem to understand something so simple? Kale is a threat when she's transformed, her base form is weak. Kafla, likewise, should be a threat when she's transformed, she shouldn't be a threat to SSG Goku in her base form.
Shit you're right, then i guess they pulled a Vegetto vs Buuhan didn't they, fucking Toei being consistent with fuck ups lol.
Doctor wrote:
It doesn't matter to which Vegetto it's referring. Goku basically says "The power boost of Super Saiyan God is bigger than the power boost of the Potara (with Super Saiyan on top)." We're not talking about character strength or powerlevels, we're talking about an established plot point: SSG's boost is bigger than Potara's.
I don't remember Goku saying that, what i do remember is Goku stating That Vegetto wouldn't be enough because Beerus was so fucking insanely powerful, so yeah, at that point god ki gave him a major boost than the earrings but it was at that point not know. Back then Beerus could casually finger flick ssj 3 and roughly do the same to Vegeta, no wonder they wouldn't stand a chance without being introduced to a new league of power. But currently the potara earrings obviously would give them much more power.

Also, both of these situations are different, in one you get a cat casually bitch slapping the two saiyan and in this one, two saiyan women actually holding their own, (hell Kale wasn't even injured to begin with), so wouldn't make sense that in this case, fusion would be a big deal?

Now if we put the two of them against idk Merged Zamasu then i could see your point
Doctor wrote:
He used "too much power" by firing off a Final Kamehameha. Via the same logic, any time Kafla attempts a strong Ki attack, she should defuse.
Well, then lets wait until Kefla or whatever goes full power and fires her strongest attack. And still idk if the same situation applies since Vegetto was TRYING to kill Zamasu with that full powered blast. We also don't know at which point a fusion uses so much power that it runs out of time or how it even works, i mean, if Vegetto had used just the exact amount of power he was capable off without using much more of what he actually got (the extra power comes from the one mantaining the fusion ) could things have gone on a different way?. But anyway that whole thing was pretty much stupid so Toei is still on a corner on that one.
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Re: Super Episode 114 (5 November 2017)

Post by Olympian » Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:22 am

Super continues to not give a flick about fanbase`s set expectations.

I like the whole show just for that alone. 10/10.
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Re: Super Episode 114 (5 November 2017)

Post by Doctor. » Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:25 am

dbs fanboy wrote:I don't remember Goku saying that, what i do remember is Goku stating That Vegetto wouldn't be enough because Beerus was so fucking insanely powerful, so yeah, at that point god ki gave him a major boost than the earrings but it was at that point not know. Back then Beerus could casually finger flick ssj 3 and roughly do the same to Vegeta, no wonder they wouldn't stand a chance without being introduced to a new league of power. But currently the potara earrings obviously would give them much more power.
You don't understand. It doesn't matter which version of Goku or which version of Vegetto it was. We're not talking about powerlevels. It was a plot point that Super Saiyan God's boost was bigger than the Potara's boost. This should always be the case because Goku's base, Goku's Super Saiyan God and a (current) Vegetto are all relative to each other.

I hate using numbers in these kinds of discussion, but picture this: If Goku's base in BoG was a 1, Vegetto was a 50, and SSG was a 100, then if Goku's base now is a 2, Vegetto would be a 100 and SSG would be a 200. It doesn't matter the time period and it doesn't matter Goku's strength level, because the difference will always remain the same. A base Vegetto (or SS1, 2 or 3, really) would ALWAYS be weaker than SSG Goku.
dbs fanboy wrote:Also, both of these situations are different, in one you get a cat casually bitch slapping the two saiyan and in this one, two saiyan women actually holding their own, (hell Kale wasn't even injured to begin with), so wouldn't make sense that in this case, fusion would be a big deal?
Kale and Caulifla are both individually weaker than Goku, this is obvious due to the fact that a tired Goku is taking them both on. If it was already established that any non-God Vegetto would be weaker than SSG Goku, then a fusion of these two in a non-God (or non-Berserker) form should ALSO be weaker than God Goku. It's not even about being obsessed with powerlevels, this is just basic consistency with established plot points: base Kafla should never, under these circumstances, be stronger than Super Saiyan God Goku.

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Re: Super Episode 114 (5 November 2017)

Post by dbs fanboy » Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:32 am

Doctor. wrote:
dbs fanboy wrote:I don't remember Goku saying that, what i do remember is Goku stating That Vegetto wouldn't be enough because Beerus was so fucking insanely powerful, so yeah, at that point god ki gave him a major boost than the earrings but it was at that point not know. Back then Beerus could casually finger flick ssj 3 and roughly do the same to Vegeta, no wonder they wouldn't stand a chance without being introduced to a new league of power. But currently the potara earrings obviously would give them much more power.
You don't understand. It doesn't matter which version of Goku or which version of Vegetto it was. We're not talking about powerlevels. It was a plot point that Super Saiyan God's boost was bigger than the Potara's boost. This should always be the case because Goku's base, Goku's Super Saiyan God and a (current) Vegetto are all relative to each other.

I hate using numbers in these kinds of discussion, but picture this: If Goku's base in BoG was a 1, Vegetto was a 50, and SSG was a 100, then if Goku's base now is a 2, Vegetto would be a 100 and SSG would be a 200. It doesn't matter the time period and it doesn't matter Goku's strength level, because the difference will always remain the same. A base Vegetto (or SS1, 2 or 3, really) would ALWAYS be weaker than SSG Goku.
dbs fanboy wrote:Also, both of these situations are different, in one you get a cat casually bitch slapping the two saiyan and in this one, two saiyan women actually holding their own, (hell Kale wasn't even injured to begin with), so wouldn't make sense that in this case, fusion would be a big deal?
Kale and Caulifla are both individually weaker than Goku, this is obvious due to the fact that a tired Goku is taking them both on. If it was already established that any non-God Vegetto would be weaker than SSG Goku, then a fusion of these two in a non-God (or non-Berserker) form should ALSO be weaker than God Goku. It's not even about being obsessed with powerlevels, this is just basic consistency with established plot points: base Kafla should never, under these circumstances, be stronger than Super Saiyan God Goku.

OH..... you were talking about base Vegetto in your argument, i get you now.
Then, yeah, their base shouldn't be that strong thought transformed it may make sense that they could fight blue.

Edit:
Althought, i don't see why it would be a problem given the fact that ssgod Goku is currently weakened; however if we take the fact that next episode he'll go Blue and Maybe even use kaioken, one could argue that he's at full power right now because if not how would he have stamina enough to go Blue? Thought that's more speculation than anything, Maybe on ep 115 Goku will go full power and make Kafla transform, which would result on trouble, making Goku transform again. We could also argue that Kafla caught Goku by surprise and that he wasn't weakened but holding back to "try to rest while fighting" like he would say. But then again, that's speculation.
Last edited by dbs fanboy on Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Super Episode 114 (5 November 2017)

Post by Noah » Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:33 am

gohan_black wrote:The power scaling in Super is a fucking joke.
Oh and you just figure it out that now? :D
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Re: Super Episode 114 (5 November 2017)

Post by gohan_black » Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:43 am

Noah wrote:
gohan_black wrote:The power scaling in Super is a fucking joke.
Oh and you just figure it out that now? :D
off course it was well known before but now its even more stupid

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Re: Super Episode 114 (5 November 2017)

Post by Freeza9000 » Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:48 am

gohan_black wrote:
Noah wrote:
gohan_black wrote:The power scaling in Super is a fucking joke.
Oh and you just figure it out that now? :D
off course it was well known before but now its even more stupid
Didn't you guys said you'd disown Super after 66 happened?

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Re: Super Episode 114 (5 November 2017)

Post by Noah » Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:50 am

Freeza9000 wrote:Didn't you guys said you'd disown Super after 66 happened?
Frankly, I stopped to care about power levels ever since I saw SSJ F. Trunks managing to hit Rosé Black moments prior he almost killed Blue Vegeta.
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Re: Super Episode 114 (5 November 2017)

Post by gohan_black » Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:50 am

Freeza9000 wrote:
gohan_black wrote:
Noah wrote:
Oh and you just figure it out that now? :D
off course it was well known before but now its even more stupid
Didn't you guys said you'd disown Super after 66 happened?
i said it? i dont think so. I'm too much of a dragon ball fan and i will never stop watching super

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Re: Super Episode 114 (5 November 2017)

Post by HeroR » Sun Nov 05, 2017 11:58 am

I find it more weird that a lot of the complaints about Super's scaling being mess up and this episode making no sense are from people comparing Cali and Kale's fusion to Super Vegetto from the Buu Saga and thinking Super Saiyan God Goku in this episode is the exact same strength as Super Saiyan God Goku from Battle of Gods.

Like, how can you complain about scaling when you don't have a firm understanding that Super Saiyan isn't a level? Not all Super Saiyan 2 are Cell or Buu Saga Goku and Vegeta's level.
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Re: Super Episode 114 (5 November 2017)

Post by Noah » Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:04 pm

HeroR wrote:I find it more weird that a lot of the complaints about Super's scaling being mess up and this episode making no sense are from people comparing Cali and Kale's fusion to Super Vegetto from the Buu Saga and thinking Super Saiyan God Goku in this episode is the exact same strength as Super Saiyan God Goku from Battle of Gods.
Well what we can do with people who thinks likes of Goku and Vegeta remained static with their power levels though they trained with Whis and spend 3 years straight in the Room Of Spirit and Time? It's clear that Super Saiyan 3 is way more stronger now than it was in the Boo arc for F's sake.
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Re: Super Episode 114 (5 November 2017)

Post by Freeza9000 » Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:07 pm

HeroR wrote:I find it more weird that a lot of the complaints about Super's scaling being mess up and this episode making no sense are from people comparing Cali and Kale's fusion to Super Vegetto from the Buu Saga and thinking Super Saiyan God Goku in this episode is the exact same strength as Super Saiyan God Goku from Battle of Gods.

Like, how can you complain about scaling when you don't have a firm understanding that Super Saiyan isn't a level? Not all Super Saiyan 2 are Cell or Buu Saga Goku and Vegeta's level.
Apparently, people still abide by the whole "SSJG Goku made Beerus use 70-80% of his power" myth.

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Re: Super Episode 114 (5 November 2017)

Post by HeroR » Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:07 pm

Noah wrote:
HeroR wrote:I find it more weird that a lot of the complaints about Super's scaling being mess up and this episode making no sense are from people comparing Cali and Kale's fusion to Super Vegetto from the Buu Saga and thinking Super Saiyan God Goku in this episode is the exact same strength as Super Saiyan God Goku from Battle of Gods.
Well what we can do with people who thinks likes of Goku and Vegeta remained static with their power levels though they trained with Whis and spend 3 years straight in the Room Of Spirit and Time? It's clear that Super Saiyan 3 is way more stronger now than it was in the Boo arc for F's sake.
Sadder, I got down voted into the dirt on Reddit when I pointed this out. Some petty people.
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precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Super Episode 114 (5 November 2017)

Post by gofishus » Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:11 pm

Doctor. wrote:Remember when they established the previous arc that Potara at this level of power is basically useless because you burn through all your Ki in an instant? Funny, that.

Remember when they established back in BoG that Super Saiyan God was a bigger power boost than a Potara fusion (with SS forms on top of that)?

More hilarious is the fact that Toei thinks we care about that forced terrible emotional moment at the start when they've given us NOTHING to care about with these characters.

What a terrible episode, thank God the visuals were great.
Well each episode in the TOP seems to be 1 minute in the tournament - there's 21 minutes left, so even if Kefla gets 10 minutes in her form max thats still 10 episodes.. pretty good actually. You forget that time passes by slower in this arc than in the Black arc.

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