Super Episode 115 (12 November 2017)

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Re: Super Episode 115 (12 November 2017)

Post by TheSaiyanGod » Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:38 pm

I really liked how Super Saiyan Blue was "treated" in this episode.
Some people complain that this transformation does not pass a sensation of power at times, but this EP did not miss that.

His use not only surprised those who followed the fight, but also worried Vados, who implied that it would be dangerous for Kefura to face Goku in that state (with Champa stressing that this would not be a problem since Goku was still recovering).
Not only that, it demonstrated a vast power difference between God and Blue. While the God showed difficulties against base Kefla (of course, being tired) the Blue (also tired) managed to rival the same in SSJ Berserker.
Vegeta Blue still managed to let go of Toppo's grip and let him fall for a long time.

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Re: Super Episode 115 (12 November 2017)

Post by PsionicWarrior » Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:15 pm

Lord Beerus wrote: Considering Goku wasn't fighting anywhere near 100%, it's not really all the impressive. There every chance that ig Goku was fighting at 100%, he would have kicked Kafla's ass as either a SSJB or SSJB Kaioken.
Hey Goku is Goku, he may have had not fully recovered SSJBKK is not exactly childplay...

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Re: Super Episode 115 (12 November 2017)

Post by PsionicWarrior » Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:52 pm

Ok anyway now that I've recovered from that awesome UI moment guess I can review a bit more on the negatives.

So well, not so much of a great episode after all, I mean the whole fight vs Kale/Caulifla then Kefla since last episodes is basically same as vs Jiren but not as good. It's not that bad, but I hope we can move on fast. I want to see more Vegeta vs Toppo, that small moment was awesome: "If you're so interested in the other fight maybe you can watch it from the seats!" Bam that's what I can call a punchline. I also like a lot, the two eternal #2s, I want to see more of this. Gohan/Piccolo vs Namekians too I want to see more.

Potaras is my most major problem in Super currently. The most cheated item of all DB history, everybody can use (btw, why make rules in the first place if Zeno can change them on a whim) them, it's seriously one of most mythic item but, no, not interested "oh we don't need". Seriously??! Ok for the robots I can figure but for the others? It's sad to see Potaras reduced to, kinda trivialized, yes trivialized. :thumbdown:

Besides that, Ultra Instinct was pure DBZ and I loved it, it was really really super cool.

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Re: Super Episode 115 (12 November 2017)

Post by Olympian » Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:23 pm

Nero<>Akira wrote:
Olympian wrote:
Nero<>Akira wrote:People need to calm down. The episode was good.

Stop trying to justify the mindless hate by saying we don't know the multiplier of Kaioken or by mentally blocking the fact that Beerus said he can't even use Kaioken x one for very long or that Champa said Goku is too tired to hear Caulifla essentially meaning he can beat her at full strength. Its Kaioken x ONE. Stop pretnding. Goku always says how much he is using or its stated by someone else what level he's at.
And to those that felt the episodes have been boring for other reasons than power scalling, because I could care less about it..?

Outside new characters and new added mythos which I can always appreciate and UL which I agree like everyone, "looks cool", the episodes have been lackluster because the direction and treatment of characters have been sucky.
Just don't see how the treatment is bad in this ep? 18 didn't want 17 to help. yeah whatever. Not that big of a deal. it's not character assassination or anything. it's as forgivable as Krillin being "impressed" by two SSJ2's fighting when he's seen something crazier a few minutes ago.
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Re: Super Episode 115 (12 November 2017)

Post by dualist » Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:06 pm

I know DBZ was known for random powerups to a certain degree. But am I the only one a little annoyed at UI? Basically if you best Goku, then he becomes unstoppable. I get the whole breaking your limits thing. You can even compare it to that old adrenaline rush adage about mothers finding the strength to lift cars when their children are in danger. But I just find it a little unfair that you can literally beat this dude and he just comes back stronger without even recovering his energy. This is not like your typical Zenkai boost, characters had to be healed to benefit. With UI, Goku just gets his ass beat and comes back powerful than ever and can achieve a state of being that even difficult for the gods.

With that being said, it's not stopping me from enjoying the show, I'm just bothered by it and I think they could've been more creative with it. Also, is anyone else worried where this show will go next? What villains can possibly follow after facing someone like Jiren? What enemy is going to be able to handle Goku once he masters UI? I feel like the writers have taken power scaling to a point of no return and really painted themselves into a corner.

Just my thoughts though, still having fun with the show.
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Re: Super Episode 115 (12 November 2017)

Post by Nero<>Akira » Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:16 pm

dualist wrote:I know DBZ was known for random powerups to a certain degree. But am I the only one a little annoyed at UI? Basically if you best Goku, then he becomes unstoppable. I get the whole breaking your limits thing. You can even compare it to that old adrenaline rush adage about mothers finding the strength to lift cars when their children are in danger. But I just find it a little unfair that you can literally beat this dude and he just comes back stronger without even recovering his energy. This is not like your typical Zenkai boost, characters had to be healed to benefit. With UI, Goku just gets his ass beat and comes back powerful than ever and can achieve a state of being that even difficult for the gods.

With that being said, it's not stopping me from enjoying the show, I'm just bothered by it and I think they could've been more creative with it. Also, is anyone else worried where this show will go next? What villains can possibly follow after facing someone like Jiren? What enemy is going to be able to handle Goku once he masters UI? I feel like the writers have taken power scaling to a point of no return and really painted themselves into a corner.

Just my thoughts though, still having fun with the show.
Toei acts according to AT and DB always has someone stronger. plus, it's not like every other enemy has to completely dwarf everyone. Jiren does but that doesn't mean someone else will exponentially be greater than him. They can still be a bit above him and provide a challenge. plus, Jiren is only confirmed to possibly be stronger than Belmond regarding GoDs. not anyone else.
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Re: Super Episode 115 (12 November 2017)

Post by mAcChaos » Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:28 pm

There are still four whole other universes out there who aren't even in the tournament. There is bound to be more strong people.
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Re: Super Episode 115 (12 November 2017)

Post by Basaku » Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:29 am

Man the last few episodes sure reminded me well what an ugly design SSG is ugh. I'll take Blue SSJ1 recolor and wind-machine Ultra Instinct over that, SSG just looks like a disproportionate eyesore fan recolor from MS Paint...

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Re: Super Episode 115 (12 November 2017)

Post by JazzMazz » Tue Nov 14, 2017 1:32 am

Basaku wrote:Man the last few episodes sure reminded me well what an ugly design SSG is ugh. I'll take Blue SSJ1 recolor and wind-machine Ultra Instinct over that, SSG just looks like a disproportionate eyesore fan recolor from MS Paint...
But, isn't SSB the misproportionate eyesore fan recolour from MS Paint?

In all seriousness though, SSG had some interesting things going for it design wise. The first of which being Goku's body was slightly leaner, which was complimented well by red by a very strong colour. It was simple and effective with only some minor changes to keep it from being a recolour.

SSB, is a complete recolour on the other hand. There is literally nothing different about his design besides the fact his hair and aura is blue.

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Re: Super Episode 115 (12 November 2017)

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Tue Nov 14, 2017 5:13 am

Comments on this episode:

- Wait, who the hell is this guy? Some fourth-wall breaking announcer? A self-insert of one of the writers of the show? Just seems random to me
- A lot of people were complaining that Kefla being this strong doesn't make sense, comparing her to Vegeto. But I think it does sort of make sense, as I would put her fusees as stronger than the ones used for Vegeto in the Buu Saga. Caulifla was probably stronger than SSJ2 Vegeta was at that time (she was also improving super rapidly and seemed close to reaching SSJ3) and Kale in Berserker form was even stronger than that (she walked through a Kamehameha from SSJB Goku ealier, broke Cocotte's dimension technique, and got even stronger once she learned to control her power). So Kefla being above SSJG Goku (especially since Goku is still injured and low on stamina from his fight with Jiren, and because Caulifla and Kale were improving so rapidly) is not so unbelievable.
- If Kefla gets any more overconfident she's going to forget the tournament entirely and charge at Zeno next...
- Beerus grabbing the Potara from Shin made me laugh
- I have no idea what Universe 3's strategy could be. Someone suggested that their remaining fighters could already have the ability to fuse together, but if that's so why haven't they done it yet? As for Universe 4, I'm pretty sure they're relying on Damom and Gamisaras to remain hidden and then win due to having 2 fighters after the time limit while no other universe would have more than 1.
- Toppo was able to keep with with Kaio-Ken x10 SSJB Goku, so why is he having so much trouble with Vegeta, and only getting an edge once he gets distracted? Is he taking it easy on him? Did Vegeta get that much stronger? Or is Toppo exhausted/weakened from previous fights?
- For a second there I thought Vegeta was going to bite Toppo's arm to get out of the hold... that would be too much of a Goku thing to do I guess
- Krillin's reaction to the idea of 17 and 18 fusing was funny. He does know it would be temporary, right?
- Do they really think two fodder characters like Zarbuto and Rabanra could beat Goku or Jiren, even with potara?
- So are those two eliminated? The episode synopsis seemed to suggest they were but I'm not seeing any announcement from Daishinkan or Zeno crossing them off.
- So Katopesra's speed boost wasn't just a worthless joke. Makes me wonder how fast he was originally. And a suit like that should still be considered a weapon, but I guess the Zenos think it's neat, so it's okay
- I recall some people thinking that 17 and 18 were going to be portrayed as roughly equal in power during the tournament, or 17 having only a slight advantage, but they're actually doing a good job of showing that he's significantly above her now due to all of that training
- Champa also seems to be confirming that Goku at this point is not near the peak of the SSJG form's power
- Why is it so odd to feel her energy from the stands? They've routinely felt ki from people across the planet, or even from other planets. Or does Krillin mean feeling the physical wind and shockwaves caused by her powering up, rather than just sensing her ki?
- Again, it seems Kefla can only handle SSJB Goku due to his lessened stamina - as I've said before, this fight actually does make sense in terms of power levels
- Using this song again for anything other than the Goku vs. Jiren fight seems to cheapen its impact a bit... even if it is just the instrumental version
- Don't tell Goku to bite you... he might take that literally
- These reaction shots of Jiren are reminding me of Hit during the last tournament, how he would just sit with his eyes closed and only barely react when a fighter showed a large power
- Freeza is still acting like he's stronger than both of them...
- They're mentioning again that using Kaio-ken like this could hurt his body, but I don't see that happening, at least not from a narrative perspective. They've been having him use it too often for too long now.
- Again, this result makes sense, as Kaio-ken was taxing his already weakened stamina too much
- Um, Champa, have you forgotten about Jiren?
- If Kefla actually had finished him when she had the chance, this wouldn't have happened...
- Maybe try one large blast covering the whole area instead of a bunch of little ones? Or make them proximity detonate or something?
- So is Jiren going to actually do something in the next episode or was that just a red herring in the next episode preview?

I liked this episode, but I would have liked to see more eliminations since we haven't had any for a while
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Re: Super Episode 115 (12 November 2017)

Post by Basaku » Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:06 am

JazzMazz wrote:
Basaku wrote:Man the last few episodes sure reminded me well what an ugly design SSG is ugh. I'll take Blue SSJ1 recolor and wind-machine Ultra Instinct over that, SSG just looks like a disproportionate eyesore fan recolor from MS Paint...
But, isn't SSB the misproportionate eyesore fan recolour from MS Paint?

In all seriousness though, SSG had some interesting things going for it design wise. The first of which being Goku's body was slightly leaner, which was complimented well by red by a very strong colour. It was simple and effective with only some minor changes to keep it from being a recolour.

SSB, is a complete recolour on the other hand. There is literally nothing different about his design besides the fact his hair and aura is blue.
Nobody said SSB wasn't a recolor too, but it's just a recolor of an otherwise good, proportionate design (SSJ1). Plus, blue/cyan is far less heavy on the eyes than this awful magneta shade Toriyama picked. If it WAS actually red, it may have been different but it's not. As for proportions, the leaner design just looks out of place in the entire series while the magneta irides are far too big.

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Re: Super Episode 115 (12 November 2017)

Post by Torturephile » Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:46 am

Basaku wrote:
JazzMazz wrote:
Basaku wrote:Man the last few episodes sure reminded me well what an ugly design SSG is ugh. I'll take Blue SSJ1 recolor and wind-machine Ultra Instinct over that, SSG just looks like a disproportionate eyesore fan recolor from MS Paint...
But, isn't SSB the misproportionate eyesore fan recolour from MS Paint?

In all seriousness though, SSG had some interesting things going for it design wise. The first of which being Goku's body was slightly leaner, which was complimented well by red by a very strong colour. It was simple and effective with only some minor changes to keep it from being a recolour.

SSB, is a complete recolour on the other hand. There is literally nothing different about his design besides the fact his hair and aura is blue.
Nobody said SSB wasn't a recolor too, but it's just a recolor of an otherwise good, proportionate design (SSJ1). Plus, blue/cyan is far less heavy on the eyes than this awful magneta shade Toriyama picked. If it WAS actually red, it may have been different but it's not. As for proportions, the leaner design just looks out of place in the entire series while the magneta irides are far too big.
I like the more muscular SSJG from episode 114. It looked more badass for me than the usual skinny design.
From Super episode 113 thread:
MaskedRider wrote:
Torturephile wrote:
hunduel wrote:I liked this episode. I seriously don't know why people hate it.
namekiansaiyan wrote:I seriously don't see why some of you like this episode when nothing happened and was basically filler.

The fandom in a nutshell.

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Re: Super Episode 115 (12 November 2017)

Post by PsionicWarrior » Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:20 pm

Tbh this is highly subjective guys lol

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Re: Super Episode 115 (12 November 2017)

Post by Ziegander » Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:26 pm

What is with "shut up, that's subjective" on this forum? We're here to talk about how we feel about each episode or what are our opinions of what just happened, what might happen, and of what we know is going to happen. All of that is, by definition, subjective. 90% of what EVERYONE here who is not a mod posts is, by nature, subjective. I just wonder if everyone who constantly brings up, "yeah, well, that's subjective," is trolling or if they literally don't understand what subjective means or how the nature of expressing opinions works.
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Re: Super Episode 115 (12 November 2017)

Post by Android350 » Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:02 pm

If 18 goes down.... without anything major on her own, immense growth in strength or at least something with a long term purpose, then (*after 15 years of waiting) I think this will be the last DB thing I'll ever watch.

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Re: Super Episode 115 (12 November 2017)

Post by JazzMazz » Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:53 pm

Android350 wrote:If 18 goes down.... without anything major on her own, immense growth in strength or at least something with a long term purpose, then (*after 15 years of waiting) I think this will be the last DB thing I'll ever watch.
Um, 18 has taken out 3 competitors, which is currently more than either Gohan, Piccolo and even 17 have taken out.

Also why does she deserve an immense growth in strength when she doesn't actively train because she is a mother. Kuririns the one that had that big training arc. Not 18.

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Re: Super Episode 115 (12 November 2017)

Post by PsionicWarrior » Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:07 pm

Ziegander wrote:What is with "shut up, that's subjective" on this forum? We're here to talk about how we feel about each episode or what are our opinions of what just happened, what might happen, and of what we know is going to happen. All of that is, by definition, subjective. 90% of what EVERYONE here who is not a mod posts is, by nature, subjective. I just wonder if everyone who constantly brings up, "yeah, well, that's subjective," is trolling or if they literally don't understand what subjective means or how the nature of expressing opinions works.
Fair enough guess I was having a bad day and seeing yet another debate about cosmetics in general in an episode-specific thread kind of rubbed me in the wrong way, wasn't really necessary indeed sorry lol

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Re: Super Episode 115 (12 November 2017)

Post by Android350 » Wed Nov 15, 2017 5:28 pm

JazzMazz wrote:
Android350 wrote:If 18 goes down.... without anything major on her own, immense growth in strength or at least something with a long term purpose, then (*after 15 years of waiting) I think this will be the last DB thing I'll ever watch.
Um, 18 has taken out 3 competitors, which is currently more than either Gohan, Piccolo and even 17 have taken out.

Also why does she deserve an immense growth in strength when she doesn't actively train because she is a mother. Kuririns the one that had that big training arc. Not 18.
Which is exactly my point... after being a bad*ss enemy, she joined the z-fighters.... but it hardly did her or them any good (strength-wise). She's been training with Krillin. Did some fighting without him as well. And she was way stronger than him to begin with.

For me personally it feels like I have been waiting 15 years... for nothing relevant yet.
The androids really were the reason I started watching DB. So to you it may not make much sense, but I feel a bit let down.

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Re: Super Episode 115 (12 November 2017)

Post by Lord Beerus » Wed Nov 15, 2017 9:07 pm

Polyphase Avatron wrote:- Toppo was able to keep with with Kaio-Ken x10 SSJB Goku, so why is he having so much trouble with Vegeta, and only getting an edge once he gets distracted? Is he taking it easy on him? Did Vegeta get that much stronger? Or is Toppo exhausted/weakened from previous fights?
Huh? That fight never happened.

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Re: Super Episode 115 (12 November 2017)

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:33 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:
Polyphase Avatron wrote:- Toppo was able to keep with with Kaio-Ken x10 SSJB Goku, so why is he having so much trouble with Vegeta, and only getting an edge once he gets distracted? Is he taking it easy on him? Did Vegeta get that much stronger? Or is Toppo exhausted/weakened from previous fights?
Huh? That fight never happened.
Maybe I'm misremembering it
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