Artorias wrote: JazzMazz wrote:
Kafla/Caulifla and Kale were major players in the tournament. I'd say them getting eliminated is pretty damn narratively significant. I'd actually say that this might have the been the single most consequential episode of this whole tournament next to the one where Hit got knocked out.
Again, how so?
How have their eliminations changed the tournament?
I would say that Kale's first powerup and Universe 2's first bout had more of an impact on the tournament than their elimination.
Don't get me wrong, their elimination should
have had a lot of narrative, it would have been a good way to lead into the final act of the tournament and battle with Jiren, as the stakes would only continue escalating from that fight. However, thats not the case. The only major thing that was different from before was that Universe 6 is down 2 more fighters and Jiren is back to standing around and doing nothing.
Goku is still weak.
Vegeta is still cocky about obtaining the form.
Freeza is still cocky about using Goku like he was in 111.
and everyone else is kind of just there.
I think the fact that a major player is now out of the tournament is inherently a fundamental change to said tournament. I don't really see what you mean about how nothing has changed. Eliminating someone who could possibly win (in theory, obviously we all know Toei wouldn't actually make her win) seems fairly significant. I don't know how else you would really further the narrative in a tournament other than having the major players get knocked out (a flaw of the tournament structured arc, but I digress).
The progression is all kinds of fucked up, no doubt, but even still, I see this as quite possibly the only actually consequential episode so far other than the episodes where universes are erased and Hit's elimination. Even the special really didn't amount to much compared to this.
Narratively, everyone is a competitor with a chance to win.
What I'm saying this is a big fight, the biggest fight of the tournament, but for such a big fight, it looks likes its going to have very little impact on the flow of the narrative. It feels a little self-contained from the rest of the tournament, however, it really hasn't changed the playing field all that much and narratively from what it was before the fight, it has really lead onto much considering the huge amount of time devoted to the fight.
The Jiren fight had two important consequences narratively.
-Goku discovering a new power and also being tired out, which lead to him being targetted by other universes.
-Hits defeat to Jiren, which lead to universe 6 being targetted as was demonstrated in 112.
This fights consequences are:
-Goku's still low on stamina and is still being targetted by other universes.
-Universe 6 is on its final legs.
The first of those things was already a consequence of the previous big battle, and the second didn't need to have 4 episodes devoted to eliminating 2 competitors.
My problem with the fight is less with the fight itself, but with the placement of the fight.
This would have been a great way to lead into the final act of the tournament, maybe they could have saved it for the last 11 minutes and have it end at the last five, so you could have your big Goku vs Jiren fight, which would further up the tensions and stakes.
Instead we've gone from an excitement high in episode 116, to a fairly rudimentary episode with far less scope or scale to it, which kind of kills any of the excitement from this episode.
Hell, I would have preferred if all sides in the tournament took an episode to recover after such a devasting fight, that would be better than just continuing having these miny boss fights one episode after another, because they do become a bit of a drag. At the very least a relaxation episode of sorts would allow both sides to recuperate and reflect on their next course of action after such a massive fight.
Generally, I'm just saying the handling could have been much better. I don't have a problem with the fight itself, I just don't feel like it really lead onto anything important narratively and due to that ends up feeling a little bit like a waste of time.
EDIT: Sorry for my incoherent rambling.