Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by Noah » Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:14 am

Nickolaidas wrote: I freely and openly admit that my dislike of the U6 female saiyans is because of sexism. Caulifla is written as a male character and this is what is putting me off. My male mind cannot grasp the fact that a woman can be so battle-hungry and competitive and calls BS when it sees Caulifla/Kefla.
Pardon, but that's one of the most stupid things I ever read in this forum, you can talk that to yourself but not to everyone. I have no problem with Caulifla being a tomboy or whatever they call a girl that acts like that, Videl was kinda like it and nobody hated her, my problem with Caulifla as Doctor. addressed before is her lame power-ups and nothing else.
HeroR wrote:Yes. I am often mistaking for a boy because of how headstrong, competitive, and forceful I can be. This is exactly why everyone thinks I am boy, even when I say I'm a girl. No one believes me. lol
Then why not call yourself HeroineH? :P
Last edited by Noah on Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by HeroR » Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:17 am

Noah wrote:
Nickolaidas wrote: I freely and openly admit that my dislike of the U6 female saiyans is because of sexism. Caulifla is written as a male character and this is what is putting me off. My male mind cannot grasp the fact that a woman can be so battle-hungry and competitive and calls BS when it sees Caulifla/Kefla.
Pardon, but that's one of the most stupid things I ever read in this forum, you can talk that to yourself but not to everyone. I have no problem with Caulifla being a tomboy or whatever they call a girl that acts like that, Videl was kinda like it and nobody hated her, my problem with Caulifla was Doctor. addressed before is her lame power-ups and nothing else.
HeroR wrote:Yes. I am often mistaking for a boy because of how headstrong, competitive, and forceful I can be. This is exactly why everyone thinks I am boy, even when I say I'm a girl. No one believes me. lol
Then why not call yourself HeroineH? :P
I personally always saw 'hero' as gender neutral. Like, heroes have no gender.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by The gr » Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:25 am

Chuquita wrote:
The animation in this arc is really what's saving it for me. There's not enough meat in the execution of this tournament for me and it definitely didn't help coming off the plot high that was the first 3/4ths of the Goku Black arc imo. All I can do is hope the next arc has more in the way of plot to it or at least isn't another tournament.

Depending on how the manga's pacing goes I could see them abridging Ribrianne's role so that instead of fits and starts her battle against 17 and 18 is one uninterrupted fight.
Well tournament can have a compelling plot like how the buu saga was at the beggining,is just that here there there is no tone,compelling antogonist and it just drags making this arc dull,i really want a cool villain like black again.
Noah wrote:
Pardon, but that's one of the most stupid things I ever read in this forum, you can talk that to yourself but not to everyone. I have no problem with Caulifla being a tomboy or whatever they call a girl that acts like that, Videl was kinda like it and nobody hated her, my problem with Caulifla was Doctor. addressed before is her lame power-ups and nothing else.
Agreed with Noah my problem with caulifla are only her power ups and that's it.
HeroR wrote:Yes. I am often mistaking for a boy because of how headstrong, competitive, and forceful I can be. This is exactly why everyone thinks I am boy, even when I say I'm a girl. No one believes me. lol
Well i met some girls that are headstrong and competitive and i see no one complaining about their attitudes,don't know why everyone have that mindset of girl not being headstrong and competitive in media and real life.
Last edited by The gr on Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:28 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by Doctor. » Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:26 am

Nickolaidas wrote:
Doctor. wrote:Caulifla cried and yelled and learned nothing. Why should we like a character who thinks she's always right?
Because that's exactly what the fandom did with Vegeta. For the entirety of DBZ, he never once admitted that Goku was his superior. Do you honestly claim that Vegeta started having fans in the last few episodes of DBZ when he called Goku #1?
Because Vegeta learned other lessons throughout Z.

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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by HeroR » Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:28 am

The gr wrote:
Chuquita wrote:
The animation in this arc is really what's saving it for me. There's not enough meat in the execution of this tournament for me and it definitely didn't help coming off the plot high that was the first 3/4ths of the Goku Black arc imo. All I can do is hope the next arc has more in the way of plot to it or at least isn't another tournament.

Depending on how the manga's pacing goes I could see them abridging Ribrianne's role so that instead of fits and starts her battle against 17 and 18 is one uninterrupted fight.
Well tournament can have a compelling plot like how the buu saga was at the beggining,is just that here there there is no tone,compelling antogonist and it just drags making this arc dull,i really want a cool villain like black again.
HeroR wrote:
Noah wrote:
Pardon, but that's one of the most stupid things I ever read in this forum, you can talk that to yourself but not to everyone. I have no problem with Caulifla being a tomboy or whatever they call a girl that acts like that, Videl was kinda like it and nobody hated her, my problem with Caulifla was Doctor. addressed before is her lame power-ups and nothing else.
Well i met some girls that are headstrong and competitive and i see no one complaining about their attitudes.Agreed with Noah my problem with caulifla are only her power ups and that's it.
The Buu Saga wasn't the tournament. The tournament was just the setup for everyone to meet Shin and Kibito.
Doctor. wrote:
Nickolaidas wrote:
Doctor. wrote:Caulifla cried and yelled and learned nothing. Why should we like a character who thinks she's always right?
Because that's exactly what the fandom did with Vegeta. For the entirety of DBZ, he never once admitted that Goku was his superior. Do you honestly claim that Vegeta started having fans in the last few episodes of DBZ when he called Goku #1?
Because Vegeta learned other lessons throughout Z.
It took Vegeta two sagas to learn something, and that is after he caused the plot for two of them.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by The gr » Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:30 am

HeroR wrote: The Buu Saga wasn't the tournament. The tournament was just the setup for everyone to meet Shin and Kibito.
True, i'm seeing a lot of people speculating the TOP will be similar to the buu saga that it will lead to another plot line,don't know how to feel about this
Last edited by The gr on Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by Doctor. » Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:31 am

HeroR wrote:It took Vegeta two sagas to learn something, and that is after he caused the plot for two of them.
Yes, he was a villain in the first one and learned his lesson in the second one, after becoming a part of the cast. What's the problem here?

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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by ekrolo2 » Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:31 am

Why am I not surprised the sexism card got played to immediately shut down grievances.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.

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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by HeroR » Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:32 am

Doctor. wrote:
HeroR wrote:It took Vegeta two sagas to learn something, and that is after he caused the plot for two of them.
Yes, he was a villain in the first one and learned his lesson in the second one, after becoming a part of the cast. What's the problem here?
I was talking about the Cell and Buu Sagas. He also didn't learn his lesson on Namek, other than being a worst character by losing what made him charming on Namek.
The gr wrote:
HeroR wrote: The Buu Saga wasn't the tournament. The tournament was just the setup for everyone to meet Shin and Kibito.
True, i'm seeing a lot of people speculating the TOP will be similar to the buu saga that it will lead to another plot line,don't know how to feel about this
If it does lead into another arc, it will probably be closer to the 22nd Tournament.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by Nickolaidas » Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:33 am

Noah wrote:Pardon, but that's one of the most stupid things I ever read in this forum, you can talk that to yourself but not to everyone.
I *was* talking only about myself. I never said that my stance is everyone's stance.

And if the problem with Caulifla was mainly her lame power-ups, almost all of the fandom should be hating Goku. Guy's pulling power-ups out of his ass all the time.

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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by mfwlegend3 » Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:36 am

Noah wrote:you can talk that to yourself but not to everyone.
That's pretty ironic.
Noah wrote:
MasterofSix wrote:
chickensguys wrote:I think I speak for everyone when I say FUCK Ribrianne and good riddance. Now I just need to wait a few more episodes to see the whole worthless universe erased to which I will cheer. I really hated that character.
No, you don't.
Yes, he does.

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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by Doctor. » Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:39 am

HeroR wrote:I was talking about the Cell and Buu Sagas. He also didn't learn his lesson on Namek, other than being a worst character by losing what made him charming on Namek.
Saying Vegeta didn't change at all after witnessing his death on Namek is being disingenuous.

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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by SansrivaaL » Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:44 am

Just to put my thoughts on this from my perspectives.
Nickolaidas wrote: Is Gotenks so universally hated as Kefla? If not, why? Isn't he also acting like an arrogant spoiled brat? Didn't he also effortlessly reached the Big Bad's power level without actually breaking a sweat? So why is Kefla any different?
Part of the reason is because Goten's a literal copy paste of Goku in terms of design and Kid ver of Trunks who I already liked since the Cell arc, to top that they're the sons of the 2 big badasses of the series, thats not to say I liked Kid Trunks, I hate his ass, Goten's a meh, and I'm not a fan of Gotenks but I can let it slide due to the reasons I said above (and this was before finding out that half breeds are supposed to be strong) and the next is.. they are literally physically small kids which is a norm when it comes to being a brat.
Why was 18 loved for kicking Vegeta's ass but Caulifla is hated for (somewhat) giving Goku a run for his money?
Unlike a certain noisy cocky all over your face brat, 18 was chill and cold while whoopin ass. One of the problems I have with those saiyan girls is how they leap through powers, its like they skipped a lot of stuffs, I would have been fine if they were already strong and already had SSJ forms prior, but no, they had to show them getting form after form in a short amount of time with little to no effort and some sisterly love. God kill me.
Why was Vegeta praised for fighting Frieza back on Namek despite doing the same things Caulifla did (praising his own self while doing absolutely nothing to hurt the Big Bad)?
Because Vegeta looked like a scrub and even died in the process (badass prince even cried) hence the backlash of actually liking him, unlike Cauli who looked good fighting someone she should be leagues below and still eats her shit like "I would have won that, you just got lucky!" when Vegeta gets like that he normally gets the beating of his lifetime hence the people sympathize.
An example is Ribrianne, I dont like her yeah, but I learned to like her after her loss, she took it like a champ, thats how you earn respect and like from viewers.
Last edited by SansrivaaL on Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by HeroR » Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:44 am

Doctor. wrote:
HeroR wrote:I was talking about the Cell and Buu Sagas. He also didn't learn his lesson on Namek, other than being a worst character by losing what made him charming on Namek.
Saying Vegeta didn't change at all after witnessing his death on Namek is being disingenuous.
I said, 'he didn't learn his lesson on Namek', not that he didn't change. Vegeta after Namek is still an arrogant prick who has his head so far up his ass it's shocking that he can move.

And he changed into a worst character since he gained an inferiority complex, lost his magnificent bastard traits, because all about 'surpassing Kakarot', and becoming a bitter character because no one was kissing his ass. Namek Saga Vegeta had a bit of humbleness in him since he knew where he stood next to Freeza and acted accordingly, the same with the Ginyu Force. Cell and Buu Saga Vegeta is Too Dumb to Live more often than not.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by Doctor. » Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:46 am

HeroR wrote:
Doctor. wrote:
HeroR wrote:I was talking about the Cell and Buu Sagas. He also didn't learn his lesson on Namek, other than being a worst character by losing what made him charming on Namek.
Saying Vegeta didn't change at all after witnessing his death on Namek is being disingenuous.
I said, 'he didn't learn his lesson on Namek', not that he didn't change. Vegeta after Namek is still an arrogant prick who has his head so far up his ass it's shocking that he can move.

And he changed into a worst character since he gained an inferiority complex, lost his magnificent bastard traits, because all about 'surpassing Kakarot', and becoming a bitter character because no one was kissing his ass. Namek Saga Vegeta had a bit of humbleness in him since he knew where he stood next to Freeza and acted accordingly, the same with the Ginyu Force. Cell and Buu Saga Vegeta is Too Dumb to Live more often than not.
He still changed, whether or not you liked that change isn't very important; he learned to give Goku respect whenever its due. Caulifla hasn't changed at all.

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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by Nickolaidas » Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:48 am

HeroR wrote:
Doctor. wrote:
HeroR wrote:I was talking about the Cell and Buu Sagas. He also didn't learn his lesson on Namek, other than being a worst character by losing what made him charming on Namek.
Saying Vegeta didn't change at all after witnessing his death on Namek is being disingenuous.
I said, 'he didn't learn his lesson on Namek', not that he didn't change. Vegeta after Namek is still an arrogant prick who has his head so far up his ass it's shocking that he can move.

And he changed into a worst character since he gained an inferiority complex, lost his magnificent bastard traits, because all about 'surpassing Kakarot', and becoming a bitter character because no one was kissing his ass. Namek Saga Vegeta had a bit of humbleness in him since he knew where he stood next to Freeza and acted accordingly, the same with the Ginyu Force. Cell and Buu Saga Vegeta is Too Dumb to Live more often than not.
THANK GOD. I thought I was the only one who felt that way about Vegeta. I also thought that the cell arc 'ruined' him because of taking his backstabbing traits and ambition, and instead turned him into an ass who was obsessed with the protagonist. So basically, like any other previous big bad in early DB except that he actually prolonged his status to every subsequent arc, while Yamcha, Tien and Piccolo stopped being rivals and became ... what's the word? Jobbers, I think?

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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by Nickolaidas » Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:49 am

Doctor. wrote:
HeroR wrote:
Doctor. wrote:
Saying Vegeta didn't change at all after witnessing his death on Namek is being disingenuous.
I said, 'he didn't learn his lesson on Namek', not that he didn't change. Vegeta after Namek is still an arrogant prick who has his head so far up his ass it's shocking that he can move.

And he changed into a worst character since he gained an inferiority complex, lost his magnificent bastard traits, because all about 'surpassing Kakarot', and becoming a bitter character because no one was kissing his ass. Namek Saga Vegeta had a bit of humbleness in him since he knew where he stood next to Freeza and acted accordingly, the same with the Ginyu Force. Cell and Buu Saga Vegeta is Too Dumb to Live more often than not.
He still changed, whether or not you liked that change isn't very important; he learned to give Goku respect whenever its due. Caulifla hasn't changed at all.
But you're comparing a Vegeta with 300 episodes on his back with a Caulifla with 20 episodes on her back. Compare Caulifla to an early Vegeta and think of whether Vegeta back then got all the hate Caulifla did.

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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by Simere » Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:50 am

Doctor. wrote:
HeroR wrote:I said, 'he didn't learn his lesson on Namek', not that he didn't change. Vegeta after Namek is still an arrogant prick who has his head so far up his ass it's shocking that he can move.

And he changed into a worst character since he gained an inferiority complex, lost his magnificent bastard traits, because all about 'surpassing Kakarot', and becoming a bitter character because no one was kissing his ass. Namek Saga Vegeta had a bit of humbleness in him since he knew where he stood next to Freeza and acted accordingly, the same with the Ginyu Force. Cell and Buu Saga Vegeta is Too Dumb to Live more often than not.
He still changed, whether or not you liked that change isn't very important; he learned to give Goku respect whenever its due. Caulifla hasn't changed at all.
Caulifla very quickly came to respect Goku.

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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by Noah » Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:50 am

Nickolaidas wrote:And if the problem with Caulifla was mainly her lame power-ups, almost all of the fandom should be hating Goku. Guy's pulling power-ups out of his ass all the time.
Are you comparing a character that was introduced 6 months ago to the frickin' protagonist? You cannot be serious.

mfwlegend3 wrote:That's pretty ironic.
It's the context that matter and in that stance he did spoke for everyone, good riddance Ribrianne :wave:
Last edited by Noah on Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by HeroR » Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:51 am

Doctor. wrote:
HeroR wrote:
Doctor. wrote:
Saying Vegeta didn't change at all after witnessing his death on Namek is being disingenuous.
I said, 'he didn't learn his lesson on Namek', not that he didn't change. Vegeta after Namek is still an arrogant prick who has his head so far up his ass it's shocking that he can move.

And he changed into a worst character since he gained an inferiority complex, lost his magnificent bastard traits, because all about 'surpassing Kakarot', and becoming a bitter character because no one was kissing his ass. Namek Saga Vegeta had a bit of humbleness in him since he knew where he stood next to Freeza and acted accordingly, the same with the Ginyu Force. Cell and Buu Saga Vegeta is Too Dumb to Live more often than not.
He still changed, whether or not you liked that change isn't very important; he learned to give Goku respect whenever its due. Caulifla hasn't changed at all.
Your argument was:
Doctor. wrote: Because Vegeta learned other lessons throughout Z.
You said nothing about changing, unless this is the context you meant by Vegeta learning other lessons. My point was that Vegeta didn't learn his lesson in the Cell Saga and it took until the end of the Buu Saga to finally learn his lesson.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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