Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

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Nickolaidas
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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by Nickolaidas » Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:53 am

SansrivaaL wrote:Unlike a certain noisy cocky all over your face brat, 18 was chill and cold while whoopin ass. One of the problems I have with those saiyan girls is how they leap through powers, its like they skipped a lot of stuffs, I would have been fine if they were already strong and already had SSJ forms prior, but no, they had to show them getting form after form in a short amount of time with little to no effort and some sisterly love. God kill me.
And you're proving my point. It's not the power-ups but her attitude that vexes you. An attitude that you yourself claimed you, and I quote, let it slide with Gotenks because of their (fathers') genes. You also prove my point for liking 18 because she was silent and deadly (as I said in a previous post, men seem to like more a woman who acts more and talks less).

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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by Doctor. » Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:54 am

HeroR wrote:You said nothing about changing, unless this is the context you meant by Vegeta learning other lessons. My point was that Vegeta didn't learn his lesson in the Cell Saga and it took until the end of the Buu Saga to finally learn his lesson.
Yes, he learned other lessons, such as giving Goku respect when its due.
Nickolaidas wrote:But you're comparing a Vegeta with 300 episodes on his back with a Caulifla with 20 episodes on her back. Compare Caulifla to an early Vegeta and think of whether Vegeta back then got all the hate Caulifla did.
Early Vegeta was a villain, this isn't a comparison you can make.

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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by SansrivaaL » Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:55 am

Nickolaidas wrote: And you're proving my point. It's not the power-ups but her attitude that vexes you. An attitude that you yourself claimed you, and I quote, let it slide with Gotenks because of their (fathers') genes.
Dont know if you missed it but I did say I hate Kid Trunks and Goten's a meh and only let it slide because they're literally kids who are supposed to be brats.
You also prove my point for liking 18 because she was silent and deadly (as I said in a previous post, men seem to like more a woman who acts more and talks less).
What does being a woman have to do with liking a chill and deadly character? its why I liked Hit and UI Goku as well, I dont see why this only refers to female characters. We are in a fighting genre, who the hell would prefer a character who talks to much and acts less unless they're gag characters like Satan?
Last edited by SansrivaaL on Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:59 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by Nickolaidas » Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:56 am

Noah wrote:
Nickolaidas wrote:And if the problem with Caulifla was mainly her lame power-ups, almost all of the fandom should be hating Goku. Guy's pulling power-ups out of his ass all the time.
Are you comparing a character that was introduced 6 months ago to the frickin' protagonist? You cannot be serious.

mfwlegend3 wrote:That's pretty ironic.
It's the context that matter and in that stance he did spoke for everyone, good riddance Ribrianne :wave:
Your last words border on troll behavior, so I'm not sure whether I should grace you with a response, but I'll give it one last shot.

Yes, I'm comparing the complaint that people hate the lame-power ups when the protagonist is also guilty of such a 'crime'. You can't turn a blind eye to Goku and Vegeta's ridiculous zenkais and Ultra Instincts, abilities they got because plot, and claim that Caulifla sucks for getting lame power ups because plot. That's hypocrisy.

And for the last time, I called myself, and myself only sexist for disliking the U6 female saiyans.

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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by HeroR » Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:58 am

Doctor. wrote:
HeroR wrote:You said nothing about changing, unless this is the context you meant by Vegeta learning other lessons. My point was that Vegeta didn't learn his lesson in the Cell Saga and it took until the end of the Buu Saga to finally learn his lesson.
Yes, he learned other lessons, such as giving Goku respect when its due.
Nickolaidas wrote:But you're comparing a Vegeta with 300 episodes on his back with a Caulifla with 20 episodes on her back. Compare Caulifla to an early Vegeta and think of whether Vegeta back then got all the hate Caulifla did.
Early Vegeta was a villain, this isn't a comparison you can make.
It took to the end of the Buu Saga before Vegeta respected Goku. I guess he kinda did in the Cell Games, but it was so much bitterness behind it, that he was closed to coughing up blood. Cali is already mostly there with far less drama and less people killed.
Last edited by HeroR on Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by Nickolaidas » Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:58 am

Doctor. wrote:
HeroR wrote:You said nothing about changing, unless this is the context you meant by Vegeta learning other lessons. My point was that Vegeta didn't learn his lesson in the Cell Saga and it took until the end of the Buu Saga to finally learn his lesson.
Yes, he learned other lessons, such as giving Goku respect when its due.
Nickolaidas wrote:But you're comparing a Vegeta with 300 episodes on his back with a Caulifla with 20 episodes on her back. Compare Caulifla to an early Vegeta and think of whether Vegeta back then got all the hate Caulifla did.
Early Vegeta was a villain, this isn't a comparison you can make.

Wait, I'm confused ... characters can only be disliked when they're good guys? Or do you claim that Vegeta being hated back then made sense because he was a villain? But that's the thing! Vegeta wasn't universally hated, EVEN when he was a villain.

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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by Doctor. » Sun Nov 26, 2017 12:01 pm

HeroR wrote:It took to the end of the Buu Saga before Vegeta respected Goku. I guess he kinda did in the Cell Games, but it was so much bitterness behind it, that he was closed to coughing up blood. Cali is already mostly there.
No, it took until the Boo arc for him to admit Goku was superior. Before then, he already had given Goku credit multiple times on his strength and rate of improvement, which is a sharp contrast to his Saiyan arc self who wouldn't accept that Goku could be anything more than a weakling.
Nickolaidas wrote:Wait, I'm confused ... characters can only be disliked when they're good guys? Or do you claim that Vegeta being hated back then made sense because he was a villain? But that's the thing! Vegeta wasn't universally hated, EVEN when he was a villain.
No, I'm saying you're making a false equivalence. You can't point to Caulifla and Saiyan arc Vegeta and claim the circumstances are the same, because they're not. People are more easily forgiving of scummy behavior coming from villains because... they're villains, and it's their scummy behavior that gives them their charm. If a good guy (which is what Caulifla is repeatedly portrayed as) is a cunt or a scumbag, then we have no reason to like the character.

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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by HeroR » Sun Nov 26, 2017 12:05 pm

Doctor. wrote:
HeroR wrote:It took to the end of the Buu Saga before Vegeta respected Goku. I guess he kinda did in the Cell Games, but it was so much bitterness behind it, that he was closed to coughing up blood. Cali is already mostly there.
No, it took until the Boo arc for him to admit Goku was superior. Before then, he already had given Goku credit multiple times on his strength and rate of improvement, which is a sharp contrast to his Saiyan arc self who wouldn't accept that Goku could be anything more than a weakling.
Nickolaidas wrote:Wait, I'm confused ... characters can only be disliked when they're good guys? Or do you claim that Vegeta being hated back then made sense because he was a villain? But that's the thing! Vegeta wasn't universally hated, EVEN when he was a villain.
No, I'm saying you're making a false equivalence. You can't point to Caulifla and Saiyan arc Vegeta and claim the circumstances are the same, because they're not. People are more easily forgiving of scummy behavior coming from villains because... they're villains, and it's their scummy behavior that gives them their charm. If a good guy (which is what Caulifla is repeatedly portrayed as) is a cunt or a scumbag, then we have no reason to like the character.
It took until the Buu Saga before he freely admitted that Goku's gift surpassed his, but it isn't really given Goku respect and he only accepted Goku being his better after he sold his soul to bridge the gap. Before, he more or less said that Goku shouldn't be better than him since he's low class garage.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by Doctor. » Sun Nov 26, 2017 12:07 pm

HeroR wrote:It took until the Buu Saga before he freely admitted that Goku's gift surpassed his, but it isn't really given Goku respect and he only accepted Goku being his better after he sold his soul to bridge the gap. Before, he more or less said that Goku shouldn't be better than him since he's low class garage.
Yes, and before then, in the Saiyan arc, he was saying that Goku shouldn't even be comparable to him. Then he accepted that Goku was his rival, only that he was still weaker than himself. They're small steps, but he does change his perspective of him every arc. His respect grows, it doesn't suddenly spike during the Boo arc.

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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by HeroR » Sun Nov 26, 2017 12:14 pm

Doctor. wrote: Yes, and before then, in the Saiyan arc, he was saying that Goku shouldn't even be comparable to him. Then he accepted that Goku was his rival, only that he was still weaker than himself. They're small steps, but he does change his perspective of him every arc. His respect grows, it doesn't suddenly spike during the Boo arc.
Vegeta still said that Goku shouldn't even be comparable to him in the Namek and Cell Saga, which is why he turned into a bitter pile of salt when Goku was stronger. It took until the Buu Saga for him to finally acknowledge that Goku had a superior gift. He didn't see Goku as a rival so much as that low class trash that insulted his honor.
Kanassa wrote:
precita wrote:Goku will still be around but take a Buu saga approach backseat.
Goku barely took a backseat in the Buu saga, at best he took a leisurely stroll round back while everyone else cried for him to come back.

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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by Kanassa » Sun Nov 26, 2017 12:14 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:Why am I not surprised the sexism card got played to immediately shut down grievances.
Because it's 2017, you *Insert Buzzword here*!
HeroR wrote:
Doctor. wrote:
HeroR wrote:I was talking about the Cell and Buu Sagas. He also didn't learn his lesson on Namek, other than being a worst character by losing what made him charming on Namek.
Saying Vegeta didn't change at all after witnessing his death on Namek is being disingenuous.
I said, 'he didn't learn his lesson on Namek', not that he didn't change. Vegeta after Namek is still an arrogant prick who has his head so far up his ass it's shocking that he can move.

And he changed into a worst character since he gained an inferiority complex, lost his magnificent bastard traits, because all about 'surpassing Kakarot', and becoming a bitter character because no one was kissing his ass. Namek Saga Vegeta had a bit of humbleness in him since he knew where he stood next to Freeza and acted accordingly, the same with the Ginyu Force. Cell and Buu Saga Vegeta is Too Dumb to Live more often than not.
It's weird to look back on Z and remember that Vegeta actually feared Frieza and acknowledged he was stronger, showing caution and actively avoiding a confrontation until he was pushed into a corner and got a power boost.
When Super apparently shoves Goku down our throats:


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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by FortuneSSJ » Sun Nov 26, 2017 12:16 pm

Lord Beerus wrote: Zeno(s) imitating Rozie style of offense may me fall out of my chair in laughter. How can anyone stay mad at that guy? He's a riot.
Probably because he reminds some people they are watching a kids show.
A world without Dragon Ball is just meh.

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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by Noah » Sun Nov 26, 2017 12:30 pm

Nickolaidas wrote:Yes, I'm comparing the complaint that people hate the lame-power ups when the protagonist is also guilty of such a 'crime'. You can't turn a blind eye to Goku and Vegeta's ridiculous zenkais and Ultra Instincts, abilities they got because plot, and claim that Caulifla sucks for getting lame power ups because plot. That's hypocrisy.
No, it isn't because we are used to them and it's part of the story, but Caulifla achieving levels that Goku had to bust his ass in training it is a valid complaint and before you say "Goten and Trunks" it was also pretty bad back then so don't pull that. I'm glad she only stick at SSJ2, because it could be so much worse, like pulling an unseen SSJ4 out of nowhere or something.
Last edited by Noah on Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by MegaBossMan » Sun Nov 26, 2017 12:57 pm

Glad to see Caulifla is still being continued to be brought up, even in episodes where she doesn't even show up once and really doesn't have any relevancy.
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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by Spencer_23 » Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:04 pm

People still trying to defend the awful shitshow that Caulifla and Kale brought lol.

Pretty average at best episode, next week looks exciting.

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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by Asura » Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:11 pm

I liked the interaction between 17 and 18 this episode with the whole bandaging her leg thing, and 18's ankle being a liability but...

This whole thing would carry a lot more weight if TOEI actually showed how this fucking injury occurred instead of it being off-screen.
Spencer_23 wrote:People still trying to defend the awful shitshow that Caulifla and Kale brought lol.

Pretty average at best episode, next week looks exciting.
Awful shitshow? Regardless of what you think of Kale and Caulifla they brought us some of the best fights of the tournament. 114 and 116 were incredible and far from an awful shitshow.

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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by Scorpio Kardia » Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:13 pm

The word "love" was used over 50 times in this episode alone. Just something to think about. For that reason alone I'm glad she's out.
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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by Swifticuffs » Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:15 pm

Scorpio Kardia wrote:The word "love" or some type of the word love was used over 50 times in this episode. Just something to think about.
All the more reason to be happy the magical girls are gone. At first it was funny, cute, and unique. Then it just became annoying. Love is a noun, pronoun, verb, sound effect, etc. It became too much.

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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by Scorpio Kardia » Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:19 pm

Swifticuffs wrote:
Scorpio Kardia wrote:The word "love" or some type of the word love was used over 50 times in this episode. Just something to think about.
All the more reason to be happy the magical girls are gone. At first it was funny, cute, and unique. Then it just became annoying. Love is a noun, pronoun, verb, sound effect, etc. It became too much.
Yup it was certainly used to the point of saturation. It's a shame they couldn't figure out something else for them to say. "Love", "beautiful", that's really all there is to them isn't it?

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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by Swifticuffs » Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:21 pm

Scorpio Kardia wrote:
Swifticuffs wrote:
Scorpio Kardia wrote:The word "love" or some type of the word love was used over 50 times in this episode. Just something to think about.
All the more reason to be happy the magical girls are gone. At first it was funny, cute, and unique. Then it just became annoying. Love is a noun, pronoun, verb, sound effect, etc. It became too much.
Yup it was certainly used to the point of saturation. It's a shame they couldn't figure out something else for them to say. "Love", "beautiful", that's really all there is to them isn't it?
The part that grinded my gears the most was that I believed the writers were going for a deeper meaning. That love is love no matter what, or beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. I mean the girls went from what the average male is going to justify as good looking to "wat". Then Ribrianne spouts nonsense that Krillin is unattractive and I literally facepalmed. There was nothing more to them in the anime than random "love this" and "love that". Absolutely awful. I expected so much more... I'm probably dumb for expecting it.

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