Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by mAcChaos » Sun Nov 26, 2017 4:31 pm

I didn't mind her, but I was annoyed because all of her scenes ended up being filler of sorts.

I never found out what she even meant by "love." It was just a catchphrase. If there was some meat to it then it would have been interesting.
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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by CJStriker_CBR » Sun Nov 26, 2017 4:37 pm

mAcChaos wrote:I didn't mind her, but I was annoyed because all of her scenes ended up being filler of sorts.

I never found out what she even meant by "love." It was just a catchphrase. If there was some meat to it then it would have been interesting.
Before the end of 117 it was the ideals like an idol warrior, being loved by many threw-out her universe and by those that admire her, short of like being famous. It is all she mostly knew, a showing of her young age and need for more experience.

By the end of the episode she learned about true love from 18 and Krillian showing class a maturity in doing show. It also open a new character are for her that I think if Toei goes one would be really good. Allot came full circle for Brianne by the end, I go into more detail in the link below.

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=40428&start=220#p1419439
Let it Bloom. Let it Ring. The Song of Love & Victory!”
~~ Brianne De Chateau ~ Episode 102, of Dragon Ball Super!
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Brianne De Chateau~~Ribrianne!~~
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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by fadeddreams5 » Sun Nov 26, 2017 4:39 pm

CJStriker_CBR wrote:
fadeddreams5 wrote:The entire concept of Ribrianne is hilarious, but the execution was so, so bad. This is the sort of character that severely overstayed her welcome and, as lord turbo mentioned, beat a dead horse with the same tired joke over and over. Literally all her lines included "love" in them, and I swear she's had more screen time than Vegeta. Just a cringe-inducing character because they took what should have been a gag, and took the entire concept and character seriously enough to reward her with an abundance of scenes and focused episodes.

Ribrianne should have been a one-off, gags galore character that was immediately eliminated:
>Sailor Moon transformation interrupted once midway
>Sailor Moon transformation executed, only to reveal she turned fat instead.
>Should have been out of shape and easily taken out.

^ That should have been it. A parody of magical girls, 10-15 minutes of screentime max. Funny sequence. And done. No more Ribrianne.
The Concept had silliness to it and that was good but I think also it was an coming of age and maturity story. I think the truth behind a decent deal of Toei's Writing of these new characters, young ones like Brianne, Caulifla, Kale, Cabba, Sanka Ku and Su Roas is that they are the New Generation, the New Mutants, the ones with Great Gifts that need guidance from the older generation, aka U7 and U11 to say.

They would not have gotten that if they where one-off or just for a quick gimmick, I think we as fans including me saw one thing about them but Toei by the last few episodes was getting at something entirely else and it was pretty interesting when they got Done.

Brianne showed class, maturity and understand their is more ideals of love out their then her own already known ones, not that hers are bad just their are better ones out their and that is the whole ideal of a coming of age story, learning more mature and solid ideals in life, becoming more mature and a more seasoned person.

I think this might be a major point in the next arc if Toei is going down this road.
Eh. I get that she developed as a character after being beaten, but I didn't like her character to begin with, beyond the novelty of being a parody. I have a feeling Toyotaro might execute the character radically differently. He already has with Toppo and Jiren. The former hasn't said "Justice" once in the manga, and is actually a GoD candidate, which is like the opposite of justice. The latter actually has a personality.
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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by Ziegander » Sun Nov 26, 2017 4:44 pm

Do people really not understand the inherent sexism in calling Caulifla, Kale, or Brianne whores, but complain only that the writing was bad when, for example, Hermila & Prum "seriously challenge" most of team U7? I don't recall anyone getting viscerally pissed off at Prum for being such a threat to Our Boy Gohan, or him being called a fat fucking slob or anything else like that.

When a community uses slurs and insults solely in reference to female characters they don't like, no other conclusion can be made except to say that sexism is involved. It doesn't mean every man or boy involved with that community is sexist, you don't all have to get defensive by a simple observation.
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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by CJStriker_CBR » Sun Nov 26, 2017 4:47 pm

fadeddreams5 wrote:
CJStriker_CBR wrote:
fadeddreams5 wrote:The entire concept of Ribrianne is hilarious, but the execution was so, so bad. This is the sort of character that severely overstayed her welcome and, as lord turbo mentioned, beat a dead horse with the same tired joke over and over. Literally all her lines included "love" in them, and I swear she's had more screen time than Vegeta. Just a cringe-inducing character because they took what should have been a gag, and took the entire concept and character seriously enough to reward her with an abundance of scenes and focused episodes.

Ribrianne should have been a one-off, gags galore character that was immediately eliminated:
>Sailor Moon transformation interrupted once midway
>Sailor Moon transformation executed, only to reveal she turned fat instead.
>Should have been out of shape and easily taken out.

^ That should have been it. A parody of magical girls, 10-15 minutes of screentime max. Funny sequence. And done. No more Ribrianne.
The Concept had silliness to it and that was good but I think also it was an coming of age and maturity story. I think the truth behind a decent deal of Toei's Writing of these new characters, young ones like Brianne, Caulifla, Kale, Cabba, Sanka Ku and Su Roas is that they are the New Generation, the New Mutants, the ones with Great Gifts that need guidance from the older generation, aka U7 and U11 to say.

They would not have gotten that if they where one-off or just for a quick gimmick, I think we as fans including me saw one thing about them but Toei by the last few episodes was getting at something entirely else and it was pretty interesting when they got Done.

Brianne showed class, maturity and understand their is more ideals of love out their then her own already known ones, not that hers are bad just their are better ones out their and that is the whole ideal of a coming of age story, learning more mature and solid ideals in life, becoming more mature and a more seasoned person.

I think this might be a major point in the next arc if Toei is going down this road.
Eh. I get that she developed as a character after being beaten, but I didn't like her character to begin with, beyond the novelty of being a parody. I have a feeling Toyotaro might execute the character radically differently. He already has with Toppo and Jiren. The former hasn't said "Justice" once in the manga, and is actually a GoD candidate, which is like the opposite of justice. The latter actually has a personality.
I will take not of Brianne in the Manga when it comes around, I hope for good things from it as well but I am pretty please with her Anime Interpretation as well. But that is the point and what is ok about it, we have different views of the same character but we can have a respectful and engaging conversation which is good. :thumbup:

Indeed I was just giving my 411 to help give a different view on her and to know what was gotten out of her character by others and what toei might have been going for. :arrow: :idea:
Let it Bloom. Let it Ring. The Song of Love & Victory!”
~~ Brianne De Chateau ~ Episode 102, of Dragon Ball Super!
:clap:

Brianne De Chateau~~Ribrianne!~~
My #1 Favorite in All of Dragon Ball!
:thumbup:

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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by Orb » Sun Nov 26, 2017 4:59 pm

I don't post my individual episode posts a lot but felt like doing one for this episode. Mainly because its about Ribrianne. A character that I feel got too much flack. I can understand why some people might not like her but honestly I have no idea how one didn't find her fights entertaining. Especially this episode where it played out like a slapstick Looney Tunes skit with her face caving in or her head being stuck inside the side of a mountain or how Rozie and her keep accidentally attacking each other. It's just flat out fun. Her attacks were also probably one of the most unique styles in the entire tournament (or DB as a whole), illuminated by unique and beautiful animation. Just look at how much care is put in by the animators whenever she is performing an attack.

As for her story, I liked that fact the she is a character that spouts love but doesn't understand it. She is someone who lives inside her own world, filled with fame and glamour. She is a hotshot celebrity like Paris Hilton or Kendall Jenner. Like Jenner's Pepsi commercial, Ribrianne believes that using her fame and image can solve issues but isn't in touch with reality and doesn't understand when things don't go her way. It is fitting that she is ultimately defeated by "true love". That's what she finally begins to understand when she is eliminated. Sure it could have been fleshed out a bit better but the episode left her on a place where she could grow. I hope we get to see her again.

Also shout to 18 for really surprising me throughout this tournament. The fact that she and Roshi are in the Top 5 in the tournament according to all those sheets ppl have made makes me happy.

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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by Retan » Sun Nov 26, 2017 5:02 pm

I think she got off to a bad start when people started saying she'd beat Vegeta in hand to hand combat. That didn't sit well with DB fans and especially Vegeta fans so she was already fighting an up hill battle to be likeable. Now that we all realize she and her comrades are gag characters at heart, I'm gonna say I don't mind her as much now. I also think watching here realize there's more to love then what she initially thought from #18 and Kuririn was actually kind of touching.

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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by CJStriker_CBR » Sun Nov 26, 2017 5:17 pm

Orb wrote:I don't post my individual episode posts a lot but felt like doing one for this episode. Mainly because its about Ribrianne. A character that I feel got too much flack. I can understand why some people might not like her but honestly I have no idea how one didn't find her fights entertaining. Especially this episode where it played out like a slapstick Looney Tunes skit with her face caving in or her head being stuck inside the side of a mountain or how Rozie and her keep accidentally attacking each other. It's just flat out fun. Her attacks were also probably one of the most unique styles in the entire tournament (or DB as a whole), illuminated by unique and beautiful animation. Just look at how much care is put in by the animators whenever she is performing an attack.

As for her story, I liked that fact the she is a character that spouts love but doesn't understand it. She is someone who lives inside her own world, filled with fame and glamour. She is a hotshot celebrity like Paris Hilton or Kendall Jenner. Like Jenner's Pepsi commercial, Ribrianne believes that using her fame and image can solve issues but isn't in touch with reality and doesn't understand when things don't go her way. It is fitting that she is ultimately defeated by "true love". That's what she finally begins to understand when she is eliminated. Sure it could have been fleshed out a bit better but the episode left her on a place where she could grow. I hope we get to see her again.

Also shout to 18 for really surprising me throughout this tournament. The fact that she and Roshi are in the Top 5 in the tournament according to all those sheets ppl have made makes me happy.
This was a Pleasure to read you post Orb and I like your Viewpoint on Brianne's Character, her arc and the unnecessary flank she got, Well said post and glad to have you back and it being for the Topic of Brianne. :thumbup:
Let it Bloom. Let it Ring. The Song of Love & Victory!”
~~ Brianne De Chateau ~ Episode 102, of Dragon Ball Super!
:clap:

Brianne De Chateau~~Ribrianne!~~
My #1 Favorite in All of Dragon Ball!
:thumbup:

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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by Asura » Sun Nov 26, 2017 5:18 pm

FortuneSSJ wrote:
Asura wrote: It's like if Cell had to include the word "perfect" into literally every single sentence after he obtains his perfect form. Do you know how annoying that would be?
And ironically that's how a lot of people remember him to be.
And who are these people you speak of? I've never seen anyone claim that they only remember Cell saying "perfect" in every sentence. Maybe they'd mean it as a joke or exaggeration, but in Ribrianne's situation it's no joke or over-exaggeration, she literally does say the word in almost every sentence.
Ziegander wrote:Do people really not understand the inherent sexism in calling Caulifla, Kale, or Brianne whores, but complain only that the writing was bad when, for example, Hermila & Prum "seriously challenge" most of team U7? I don't recall anyone getting viscerally pissed off at Prum for being such a threat to Our Boy Gohan, or him being called a fat fucking slob or anything else like that.

When a community uses slurs and insults solely in reference to female characters they don't like, no other conclusion can be made except to say that sexism is involved. It doesn't mean every man or boy involved with that community is sexist, you don't all have to get defensive by a simple observation.
Oh my god enough already. No one is calling Caulifla, Kale, or Brianne whores. No one. Where are you seeing people say this? I have a feeling you're either completely making it up or you saw one or two YouTube comments and decided that's what the majority of people are like who dislike these characters.

I remember plenty of people calling Prum an ugly fucker. There was a pretty funny term people were using for him, I can't remember it. Maybe something along the lines of "stupid fucking rock" because his character design is quite awful.

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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by Swifticuffs » Sun Nov 26, 2017 5:28 pm

Asura wrote:
FortuneSSJ wrote:
Asura wrote: It's like if Cell had to include the word "perfect" into literally every single sentence after he obtains his perfect form. Do you know how annoying that would be?
And ironically that's how a lot of people remember him to be.
And who are these people you speak of? I've never seen anyone claim that they only remember Cell saying "perfect" in every sentence. Maybe they'd mean it as a joke or exaggeration, but in Ribrianne's situation it's no joke or over-exaggeration, she literally does say the word in almost every sentence.
Ziegander wrote:Do people really not understand the inherent sexism in calling Caulifla, Kale, or Brianne whores, but complain only that the writing was bad when, for example, Hermila & Prum "seriously challenge" most of team U7? I don't recall anyone getting viscerally pissed off at Prum for being such a threat to Our Boy Gohan, or him being called a fat fucking slob or anything else like that.

When a community uses slurs and insults solely in reference to female characters they don't like, no other conclusion can be made except to say that sexism is involved. It doesn't mean every man or boy involved with that community is sexist, you don't all have to get defensive by a simple observation.
Oh my god enough already. No one is calling Caulifla, Kale, or Brianne whores. No one. Where are you seeing people say this? I have a feeling you're either completely making it up or you saw one or two YouTube comments and decided that's what the majority of people are like who dislike these characters.

I remember plenty of people calling Prum an ugly fucker. There was a pretty funny term people were using for him, I can't remember it. Maybe something along the lines of "stupid fucking rock" because his character design is quite awful.
Yeah I'm pretty sure nobody has said these things, and if so, they've been scared away from here. People need to stop trying to silence anything that doesn't fit their narrative. Dragonball fans are not male sexists who spout names all because they're upset Caulifla got a ton of asspulls (people were upset with Future Trunks for this). They also are not sexists because they dislike Kale and her silly reason for becoming LSSJ, and they're certainly not sexist for disliking an annoying character who has a terrible personality, and was a running gag that didn't die when it should have. For real. And this is coming from a guy who likes Kefla and loved the fights Cauli and Kale brought us. You can dislike these characters and not use slurs nor be a sexist. Enough with the raging third wave nonsense.

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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by Orb » Sun Nov 26, 2017 5:41 pm

Language like that very much exists in this fandom. Simply look at any Youtube comment thread or Reddit post that focus on Ribrianne or Cauli. I have seen ppl strictly hate these characters simply because their about "love" and that automatically makes Dragon ball "childish" because its "kiddie crap". They dont want "Sailor Moon" in their very edgy and masculine fighting show because that's for "kids". This is about the general audience not ppl you see here. Many top voted comments about them complaining that Dragon ball is being trashed and they loved DBZ because it had absence of love. The language used against females characters like Cauli and Rib DOES matter regardless of what reason they hate them.

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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by nato25 » Sun Nov 26, 2017 5:43 pm

Swifticuffs wrote:
Asura wrote:
FortuneSSJ wrote: And ironically that's how a lot of people remember him to be.
And who are these people you speak of? I've never seen anyone claim that they only remember Cell saying "perfect" in every sentence. Maybe they'd mean it as a joke or exaggeration, but in Ribrianne's situation it's no joke or over-exaggeration, she literally does say the word in almost every sentence.
Ziegander wrote:Do people really not understand the inherent sexism in calling Caulifla, Kale, or Brianne whores, but complain only that the writing was bad when, for example, Hermila & Prum "seriously challenge" most of team U7? I don't recall anyone getting viscerally pissed off at Prum for being such a threat to Our Boy Gohan, or him being called a fat fucking slob or anything else like that.

When a community uses slurs and insults solely in reference to female characters they don't like, no other conclusion can be made except to say that sexism is involved. It doesn't mean every man or boy involved with that community is sexist, you don't all have to get defensive by a simple observation.
Oh my god enough already. No one is calling Caulifla, Kale, or Brianne whores. No one. Where are you seeing people say this? I have a feeling you're either completely making it up or you saw one or two YouTube comments and decided that's what the majority of people are like who dislike these characters.

I remember plenty of people calling Prum an ugly fucker. There was a pretty funny term people were using for him, I can't remember it. Maybe something along the lines of "stupid fucking rock" because his character design is quite awful.
Yeah I'm pretty sure nobody has said these things, and if so, they've been scared away from here. People need to stop trying to silence anything that doesn't fit their narrative. Dragonball fans are not male sexists who spout names all because they're upset Caulifla got a ton of asspulls (people were upset with Future Trunks for this). They also are not sexists because they dislike Kale and her silly reason for becoming LSSJ, and they're certainly not sexist for disliking an annoying character who has a terrible personality, and was a running gag that didn't die when it should have. For real. And this is coming from a guy who likes Kefla and loved the fights Cauli and Kale brought us. You can dislike these characters and not use slurs nor be a sexist. Enough with the raging third wave nonsense.
Yeah I honestly haven't seen any blatant sexism displayed on this board in regards to female characters and I hope that continues. I want to hear legit criticisms on these characters, male or female, not just shes a whore.

I can't qualify at all people saying that Cauliflas transformations and Trunks transformations are comparable. At least Caulifla had seen the forms previously, had a teacher (somewhat in Cabba) and was known as a prodigy and most importantly, transformed into real levels of SSJ. Trunks did what, got mad and became some weird amalgamation of SSJ with it's own visual style that no one even thought to mention or comment on, despite it seemingly giving him power comparable to SSB. Sorry to go off on that tangent I just despise some elements of the Trunks arc.

Lastly in respone to Orb, yes I very much enjoyed the fight and most of Ribrianne's techniques (although she seemed to have a lot of different names even though the attacks were almost identical looking just being a heart.) The comedy in the fights paid off rather well, it's obviously her dialogue people had the most issue. I'm assuming this is the same reason a lot of people aren't fond of Helles (I think thats the GoD of Universe 2 name) either as she constantly just says beautiful. It's so refresing when they say something other than that.

Makes me wonder if the dub will choose to take some liberties with these characters dialogue and how the manga will handle it.

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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by Swifticuffs » Sun Nov 26, 2017 5:47 pm

Orb wrote:Language like that very much exists in this fandom. Simply look at any Youtube comment thread or Reddit post that focus on Ribrianne or Cauli. I have seen ppl strictly hate these characters simply because their about "love" and that automatically makes Dragon ball "childish" because its "kiddie crap". They dont want "Sailor Moon" in their very edgy and masculine fighting show because that's for "kids". This is about the general audience not ppl you see here. Many top voted comments about them complaining that Dragon ball is being trashed and they loved DBZ because it had absence of love. The language used against females characters like Cauli and Rib DOES matter regardless of what reason they hate them.
I should have edited my post to say "here". That it does not happen here, but I did not, so fair reply.

That said, you cannot wipe out all forms of evil. Gonna take time before we live in a world where language like that isn't used. Nothing wrong with love and stuff. Heck nothing wrong with Sailor Moon. Everything wrong (annoying) with them saying love every 15 words in an environment where an emotion like that has never meant a damn thing in the franchise. It's overkill.

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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by Asura » Sun Nov 26, 2017 5:53 pm

Orb wrote:This is about the general audience not ppl you see here.
You can't just see a handful of kids (and I mean a really tiny handful compared to the entire fanbase) on YouTube comments saying these things and then attribute it to being the opinion of the ENTIRE general audience. Gigantic generalizations like that is what's causing people to think this is a much bigger issue than it really is, and they use it as an excuse to defend why people might dislike these characters.

Thus, this causes people to think every criticism against the girl characters has to do with sexism, and makes people feel self validated that nothing is wrong with these characters, it's just that everyone else is sexist, or misogynistic, or X buzzword which automatically makes every criticism of them invalid.
Last edited by Asura on Sun Nov 26, 2017 5:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by Swifticuffs » Sun Nov 26, 2017 5:55 pm

Asura wrote:
Orb wrote:This is about the general audience not ppl you see here.
You can't just see a handful of kids (and I mean a really tiny handful compared to the entire fanbase) on YouTube comments saying these things and then attribute it to being the opinion of the ENTIRE general audience. Gigantic generalizations like that is what's causing people to think this is a much bigger issue than it really is, and they use it as an excuse to defend why people might dislike these characters.
This style of hivemind thinking affects real world issues as well. This isn't new to dragonball. You're fighting a war that can't be won, but I commend you for trying.

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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by Asura » Sun Nov 26, 2017 5:58 pm

Swifticuffs wrote:
Asura wrote:
Orb wrote:This is about the general audience not ppl you see here.
You can't just see a handful of kids (and I mean a really tiny handful compared to the entire fanbase) on YouTube comments saying these things and then attribute it to being the opinion of the ENTIRE general audience. Gigantic generalizations like that is what's causing people to think this is a much bigger issue than it really is, and they use it as an excuse to defend why people might dislike these characters.
This style of hivemind thinking affects real world issues as well. This isn't new to dragonball. You're fighting a war that can't be won, but I commend you for trying.
It's a war that can very easily be won by disregarding people who actually think this way, which is definitely what you should do when you see anyone here, or anywhere else for that matter complain about widespread sexism against the female characters.

Point out that they're full of shit, and make it so other people don't fall into their lies.

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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by Swifticuffs » Sun Nov 26, 2017 6:02 pm

Asura wrote:
Swifticuffs wrote:
Asura wrote:
You can't just see a handful of kids (and I mean a really tiny handful compared to the entire fanbase) on YouTube comments saying these things and then attribute it to being the opinion of the ENTIRE general audience. Gigantic generalizations like that is what's causing people to think this is a much bigger issue than it really is, and they use it as an excuse to defend why people might dislike these characters.
This style of hivemind thinking affects real world issues as well. This isn't new to dragonball. You're fighting a war that can't be won, but I commend you for trying.
It's a war that can very easily be won by disregarding people who actually think this way, which is definitely what you should do when you see anyone here, or anywhere else for that matter complain about widespread sexism against the female characters.

Point out that they're full of shit, and make it so other people don't fall into their lies.
True that brother. I honestly like the Saiyan girls due to the fights they brought us and the fantastic voice acting of Kefl'a mixed voice.

That said, here's an example of my girl. Let's see if someone calls her sexist.

I live with my fiance who's a girl who loves Sailor Moon, is dressed in pink currently, and exhibits very feminine behavior. When introduced to Ribrianne she was immediately chuckling, then after another episode of her said "can we make this stop... it's ridiculous now". When deliberating the Saiyan girls she said "this is cool, and I like female characters that are strong, but Cauli is just a brat and Kale is literally meek and timid... they could have done so much better". I guess she's sexist too for expecting the writers to expand a bit on the Saiyan girls or make Ribrianne stop with love for two seconds. :/

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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by Ziegander » Sun Nov 26, 2017 6:04 pm

You're hilarious. YouTube and reddit are vastly more enormous communities than this website, but because there's no sexist comments made against the female characters on this site (and there still is, just not nearly as many or as transparently), then there simply is no widespread sexism in the overall Dragonball community? That's the position it sounds like you're arguing. And that anyone claiming there is widespread sexism in the DB community is a liar. Hilarious.
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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by Swifticuffs » Sun Nov 26, 2017 6:05 pm

Ziegander wrote:You're hilarious. YouTube and reddit are vastly more enormous communities than this website, but because there's no sexist comments made against the female characters on this site (and there still is, just not nearly as many or as transparently), then there simply is no widespread sexism in the overall Dragonball community? That's the position it sounds like you're arguing. And that anyone claiming there is widespread sexism in the DB community is a liar. Hilarious.
So a few comments, you'll compile a list of maybe 10 or 20 that have 1k like or something silly, means millions of viewers are sexist. Great logic broski. Bump into a few ignoramuses and that means it's WIDESPREAD. Unreal.

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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by Asura » Sun Nov 26, 2017 6:06 pm

Ziegander wrote:You're hilarious. YouTube and reddit are vastly more enormous communities than this website, but because there's no sexist comments made against the female characters on this site (and there still is, just not nearly as many or as transparently), then there simply is no widespread sexism in the overall Dragonball community? That's the position it sounds like you're arguing. And that anyone claiming there is widespread sexism in the DB community is a liar. Hilarious.
They're so much more vastly enormous yet you can't even seem to find any widespread examples of what you're claiming. So yes, until you're able to actually prove that there's a large, considerable amount of people who are calling them whores and sluts, you're a liar.

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