Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by Ziegander » Sun Nov 26, 2017 7:04 pm

Acknowledging sexism or racism as issues is political now, I guess. Still not sure why everyone's so defensive if there's no problem and no one is accusing anyone of being part of the non-problem...
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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by Asura » Sun Nov 26, 2017 7:18 pm

Ziegander wrote:Acknowledging sexism or racism as issues is political now, I guess. Still not sure why everyone's so defensive if there's no problem and no one is accusing anyone of being part of the non-problem...
This'll be the last post I make on this subject.

You claim you've accused no one, and that you were never talking about the majority of the community. Apparently all you've been trying to tell us this entire time is that sexism (and now racism) exists. Well no shit, but why would you even bring this up if it was not an inherent problem within the Dragon Ball community? You're not shocking anyone by saying things like sexism and racism exist, and unless you had a reason to tie it to the community as being a problem, you'd never have brought sexism up in the first place.

But you're saying much more than just "sexism exists". You're accusing the widespread community of being sexist. You claim you're accusing no one and aren't talking about the majority of the community, but you are. In fact, the greatest piece of evidence is something you posted only one month ago on the Episode 112 discussion thread:
Ziegander wrote:There is a MASSIVE amount of sexism and overt male chauvinism and even just general toxic masculinity in at least the American Dragon Ball fanbase, so much it's often appalling to read through youtube comments on Dragon Ball videos. Not saying there's a lot of it HERE, but I do think some of the less obvious characteristics of those issues tend to permeate the fanbase as a whole and seep into fans' thought patterns without them even noticing.
I don't really think I even need to say anything more.

My apologies for derailing this thread, but I felt like this especially needed to be pointed out and disproven, especially on the episode where the most disliked female character gets KOed out of the ring, because otherwise it gives off a false impression and a bad rep for the DB community as a whole.

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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by Noah » Sun Nov 26, 2017 7:24 pm

Can't we just celebrate that Ribrianne is finally out and hopefully in the next episode we will see her, Kale and Caulifla being erased at same time? :D
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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by CJStriker_CBR » Sun Nov 26, 2017 7:34 pm

Noah wrote:Can't we just celebrate that Ribrianne is finally out and hopefully in the next episode we will see her, Kale and Caulifla being erased at same time? :D
Honestly I rather celebrate their character arcs and how far they come in development and where in hopes toei has teased where they all can Go next, Brianne, Sanka Ku, Su Roas, Kale, Caulifla and Cabba! :wink:

That is if Toei goes that route, but after 116 and 117 they have left those next arcs of Training open. :thumbup:
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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by Doctor. » Sun Nov 26, 2017 7:40 pm

Ziegander wrote:Do people really not understand the inherent sexism in calling Caulifla, Kale, or Brianne whores
Correct, it's an insult to whores, or, rather, 'sex workers', to be compared to those fictional characters.

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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by Noah » Sun Nov 26, 2017 7:55 pm

CJStriker_CBR wrote:That is if Toei goes that route, but after 116 and 117 they have left those next arcs of Training open. :thumbup:
Nah, they probably will be erased for good.
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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by CJStriker_CBR » Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:06 pm

Noah wrote:
CJStriker_CBR wrote:That is if Toei goes that route, but after 116 and 117 they have left those next arcs of Training open. :thumbup:
Nah, they probably will be erased for good.
In the Spirit of Nah........ :wink: ....Nah, you don't want a series where the Heroes of U7, if they win, go on existing while multiple universes with Trillions of Lives are dead and they could not reverse it. So that is not a likely scenario, espically if U6 is gone.
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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by BWri » Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:15 pm

Asura wrote:
Ziegander wrote:Acknowledging sexism or racism as issues is political now, I guess. Still not sure why everyone's so defensive if there's no problem and no one is accusing anyone of being part of the non-problem...
This'll be the last post I make on this subject.

You claim you've accused no one, and that you were never talking about the majority of the community. Apparently all you've been trying to tell us this entire time is that sexism (and now racism) exists. Well no shit, but why would you even bring this up if it was not an inherent problem within the Dragon Ball community? You're not shocking anyone by saying things like sexism and racism exist, and unless you had a reason to tie it to the community as being a problem, you'd never have brought sexism up in the first place.

But you're saying much more than just "sexism exists". You're accusing the widespread community of being sexist. You claim you're accusing no one and aren't talking about the majority of the community, but you are. In fact, the greatest piece of evidence is something you posted only one month ago on the Episode 112 discussion thread:
Ziegander wrote:There is a MASSIVE amount of sexism and overt male chauvinism and even just general toxic masculinity in at least the American Dragon Ball fanbase, so much it's often appalling to read through youtube comments on Dragon Ball videos. Not saying there's a lot of it HERE, but I do think some of the less obvious characteristics of those issues tend to permeate the fanbase as a whole and seep into fans' thought patterns without them even noticing.
I don't really think I even need to say anything more.

My apologies for derailing this thread, but I felt like this especially needed to be pointed out and disproven, especially on the episode where the most disliked female character gets KOed out of the ring, because otherwise it gives off a false impression and a bad rep for the DB community as a whole.
DB is huge, especially as far as anime goes. It has one of the most diverse communities out there who like the show for various reasons. Labels such as sexist or misogynist cannot be placed on the community because we are not a monolith. We are a plurality. But of course that stuff has existed in the fandom for a while, it's just never been a major part of it and never will. People who are sexist watch Dragon Ball but Dragon Ball watchers are not sexist, if that makes sense.

But back on topic. I don't mind U7 being this strong anymore. It has eliminated the possibility of real tension being present in this tournament and has diminished much of the mystic of other universes. I'm not that upset over it, because they've managed to get me intrigued in some of these other universes despite that. I want to see more magical girls, more U6 Saiyans, Namekians, and Earthlings. More of U11 and U9. More of U3 and U10. I don't know how they did it, but by the end I ended up kinda liking characters I didn't care for AT ALL initially. I want to see more proper buildup of Kale and Caulifla even.
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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by CJStriker_CBR » Sun Nov 26, 2017 8:24 pm

BWri wrote:
Asura wrote:
Ziegander wrote:Acknowledging sexism or racism as issues is political now, I guess. Still not sure why everyone's so defensive if there's no problem and no one is accusing anyone of being part of the non-problem...
This'll be the last post I make on this subject.

You claim you've accused no one, and that you were never talking about the majority of the community. Apparently all you've been trying to tell us this entire time is that sexism (and now racism) exists. Well no shit, but why would you even bring this up if it was not an inherent problem within the Dragon Ball community? You're not shocking anyone by saying things like sexism and racism exist, and unless you had a reason to tie it to the community as being a problem, you'd never have brought sexism up in the first place.

But you're saying much more than just "sexism exists". You're accusing the widespread community of being sexist. You claim you're accusing no one and aren't talking about the majority of the community, but you are. In fact, the greatest piece of evidence is something you posted only one month ago on the Episode 112 discussion thread:
Ziegander wrote:There is a MASSIVE amount of sexism and overt male chauvinism and even just general toxic masculinity in at least the American Dragon Ball fanbase, so much it's often appalling to read through youtube comments on Dragon Ball videos. Not saying there's a lot of it HERE, but I do think some of the less obvious characteristics of those issues tend to permeate the fanbase as a whole and seep into fans' thought patterns without them even noticing.
I don't really think I even need to say anything more.

My apologies for derailing this thread, but I felt like this especially needed to be pointed out and disproven, especially on the episode where the most disliked female character gets KOed out of the ring, because otherwise it gives off a false impression and a bad rep for the DB community as a whole.
DB is huge, especially as far as anime goes. It has one of the most diverse communities out there who like the show for various reasons. Labels such as sexist or misogynist cannot be placed on the community because we are not a monolith. We are a plurality. But of course that stuff has existed in the fandom for a while, it's just never been a major part of it and never will. People who are sexist watch Dragon Ball but Dragon Ball watchers are not sexist, if that makes sense.

But back on topic. I don't mind U7 being this strong anymore. It has eliminated the possibility of real tension being present in this tournament and has diminished much of the mystic of other universes. I'm not that upset over it, because they've managed to get me intrigued in some of these other universes despite that. I want to see more magical girls, more U6 Saiyans, Namekians, and Earthlings. More of U11 and U9. More of U3 and U10. I don't know how they did it, but by the end I ended up kinda liking characters I didn't care for AT ALL initially. I want to see more proper buildup of Kale and Caulifla even.
IMO when 117 ended the dominance of U7 was official IMO as well. Toei at this point anyways made that clear so I don't really feel their will be anymore tension with anyone else that is not of U11. What it is is what it is, that is the Route Toei Took and I indeed still Highly Disagree with it, if I was writing this the Tensions would be allot more even as well as all the universes, but I am not and we have to accept where they are going.

But No Matter what I am with you on Liking the other Universes and at this point Power Levels are so screwy all I care about it Character and Character arcs that can lead to power, but lead to better character development. I hope further down the Road with the teases they gave us in develop of the U6 Girls and Cabba at the end of 116 and the teases of personal development they gave to Brianne at the end of 117 that we will have an arc of exploration and character arcs of training for this new generation of warriors.

As of right now the other Universes are what I care about most and really only at this point! :wink:
Let it Bloom. Let it Ring. The Song of Love & Victory!”
~~ Brianne De Chateau ~ Episode 102, of Dragon Ball Super!
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Brianne De Chateau~~Ribrianne!~~
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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by Tombstone1988 » Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:33 pm

Hanging out with the in-laws this Thanksgiving weekend, so don't really have time for my usual in-depth post. Thought the episode was better than I expected it to be but nothing particularly amazing. Hope everyone else had a happy Thanksgiving!
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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by BWri » Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:38 pm

CJStriker_CBR wrote:IMO when 117 ended the dominance of U7 was official IMO as well. Toei at this point anyways made that clear so I don't really feel their will be anymore tension with anyone else that is not of U11. What it is is what it is, that is the Route Toei Took and I indeed still Highly Disagree with it, if I was writing this the Tensions would be allot more even as well as all the universes, but I am not and we have to accept where they are going.
Yeah, I thought of all those left that #18 would be one of the weaker characters here and that Ribrianne would be one of the moderately stronger ones, but to my surprise with a little motivation and some assistance from #17 (mostly defensive), #18 proved she could go toe to toe with Ribrianne's powered up transformed state and basically one shot her. I'm not sure if this says that #18 is far stronger than we think or if Ribrianne is much weaker than some of us think, but whatever the case, U7 has truly proven to be the undisputed dominators here, especially when the likes of Roshi gets 5(???) eliminations.
But No Matter what I am with you on Liking the other Universes and at this point Power Levels are so screwy all I care about it Character and Character arcs that can lead to power, but lead to better character development. I hope further down the Road with the teases they gave us in develop of the U6 Girls and Cabba at the end of 116 and the teases of personal development they gave to Brianne at the end of 117 that we will have an arc of exploration and character arcs of training for this new generation of warriors.

As of right now the other Universes are what I care about most and really only at this point! :wink:
That's one of the better aspects of Super at the moment, the fact that power levels means less means that more characters can be better utilized and treated with more respect. That was a problem Z had, otherwise characters like Roshi and Kami could have been used better. I don't know what to expect, but I do hope they give us some snippets of the lives of other universe contestants, if they survive that is :lol:
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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by CJStriker_CBR » Sun Nov 26, 2017 10:05 pm

gofishus wrote:I'm just going to be blunt with this: if you are fat in today's society and age, you are not going to be as well liked or respected as someone who is slim (everything else equal). Call it body shaming or whatever you want but unless its a genetic disorder or medical condition that prevents them from excercising, those people should take care of their bodies better.
Yea I don't find this much in Real Life at all. In my whole life it has been a rarity when people shame someone cause of their weight or put them down. It is just not a fact I see much or hear much about when in the real world.

I'm a Man and When it comes to women, size of a Lady has never been a determining factor for me on Attractiveness of a lady. A lady can be Skinny, Heavy, Medium, does not matter. A Woman is a Woman and weight has never taken away form their attractiveness to me or really most any other dude I have known in my whole life. Hench, why this hyper dislike of heavy ladies is only a problem online like everything else is Major Problem online these days but never a factor in Real Life. :roll:

So really no, I don't weight shaming rarely ever in Real Life or think one would preach it without getting put down.
Let it Bloom. Let it Ring. The Song of Love & Victory!”
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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by avasatu » Sun Nov 26, 2017 10:06 pm

Nickolaidas wrote:
mfwlegend3 wrote:
Hero wrote:Plus neither of these females were powerful
I actually had a discussion about this with a friend of mine. Many people like to use No. 18 as an example of a character that's liked whenever someone pulls the sexism card. But #18 really hasn't been "out there" in terms of power. She was never a menace in any way to the cast, even when she was first introduced and broke Vegeta's arm. She was immediately just shifted off to the side for the rest of that arc, and she never rivaled anyone in power. Attention was never the focus of her that much. Plus, she's literally waifu for most of the men who watch this shit.

I'm glad I'm not the only one as I see from this thread that Caulifla really has not demonstrated a personality that's different from any past characters. There's more to it than just "she's annoying," IMO. Whether it's not liking a literally who walk all over the macho MCs, or sexism, I can't say for certain. If it's the latter, I doubt they'd actually admit it.
I freely and openly admit that my dislike of the U6 female saiyans is because of sexism. Caulifla is written as a male character and this is what is putting me off. My male mind cannot grasp the fact that a woman can be so battle-hungry and competitive and calls BS when it sees Caulifla/Kefla.

Ribrianne I don't like because she's embarrassing to watch. I don't dislike her as much as the U6 saiyans and if she wasn't a gag character and was more serious in defending love in the universes I'd her really liked her as a character. The scene in a previous episode where she was questioning her resolve was on the verge of amazing. The only scene of hers that I liked.

CJStriker, please don't thank me for writing the last two lines. :D
This doesn't make you sexist. It makes you observant of the fact that human females are generally not competitive or battle hungry. At worst, you're just guilty of some generalizing, not prejudice. Remember, these are Saiyan females, though! ;)

Caulifla and Kale (and Cabba, for that matter) are bad characters because they have done absolutely nothing resembling earning even a fraction of their powers. Their personalities and behaviors are excellent. I don't mind Caulifla and Kafla's bragging at all, personally. In fact, I've become somewhat fond of the two girls on a behavioral level. They do not have my respect as warriors yet, though. Only Kafla has done anything remotely respectable in battle, but since she is merely an extension of two atrociously developed characters, I can only give her the smallest nod.

Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, and gang have multiple times been savagely and brutally beaten senseless, tortured, had their bodies completely broken, have died (or nearly died), trained with both utter intensity and clever thinking for multiple grueling and long stretches of time, and have experienced unimaginable loss to get where they are today. And yet most fans I know, including myself will absolutely complain at the asspulls Gohan, Piccolo, and Roshi have (apparently) received coming into the ToP. Why, then, should our dislike for the ultimate Mary Sues not be exponentially greater? Cuz women? Cuz feminism? I think not.

Oh, and no one would be mad if Vados mopped the floor with UI Goku, even if she did it while bragging.

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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by Melee_Sovereign » Sun Nov 26, 2017 11:53 pm

Kataphrut wrote:The scene with 17 fixing 18's leg at the start was cute, and had me convinced they'd be going out.
You do know they're siblings, right?

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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by Ballistictiger » Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:00 am

avasatu wrote:
Nickolaidas wrote:
mfwlegend3 wrote:
I actually had a discussion about this with a friend of mine. Many people like to use No. 18 as an example of a character that's liked whenever someone pulls the sexism card. But #18 really hasn't been "out there" in terms of power. She was never a menace in any way to the cast, even when she was first introduced and broke Vegeta's arm. She was immediately just shifted off to the side for the rest of that arc, and she never rivaled anyone in power. Attention was never the focus of her that much. Plus, she's literally waifu for most of the men who watch this shit.

I'm glad I'm not the only one as I see from this thread that Caulifla really has not demonstrated a personality that's different from any past characters. There's more to it than just "she's annoying," IMO. Whether it's not liking a literally who walk all over the macho MCs, or sexism, I can't say for certain. If it's the latter, I doubt they'd actually admit it.
I freely and openly admit that my dislike of the U6 female saiyans is because of sexism. Caulifla is written as a male character and this is what is putting me off. My male mind cannot grasp the fact that a woman can be so battle-hungry and competitive and calls BS when it sees Caulifla/Kefla.

Ribrianne I don't like because she's embarrassing to watch. I don't dislike her as much as the U6 saiyans and if she wasn't a gag character and was more serious in defending love in the universes I'd her really liked her as a character. The scene in a previous episode where she was questioning her resolve was on the verge of amazing. The only scene of hers that I liked.

CJStriker, please don't thank me for writing the last two lines. :D
This doesn't make you sexist. It makes you observant of the fact that human females are generally not competitive or battle hungry. At worst, you're just guilty of some generalizing, not prejudice. Remember, these are Saiyan females, though! ;)

Caulifla and Kale (and Cabba, for that matter) are bad characters because they have done absolutely nothing resembling earning even a fraction of their powers. Their personalities and behaviors are excellent. I don't mind Caulifla and Kafla's bragging at all, personally. In fact, I've become somewhat fond of the two girls on a behavioral level. They do not have my respect as warriors yet, though. Only Kafla has done anything remotely respectable in battle, but since she is merely an extension of two atrociously developed characters, I can only give her the smallest nod.

Goku, Vegeta, Gohan, and gang have multiple times been savagely and brutally beaten senseless, tortured, had their bodies completely broken, have died (or nearly died), trained with both utter intensity and clever thinking for multiple grueling and long stretches of time, and have experienced unimaginable loss to get where they are today. And yet most fans I know, including myself will absolutely complain at the asspulls Gohan, Piccolo, and Roshi have (apparently) received coming into the ToP. Why, then, should our dislike for the ultimate Mary Sues not be exponentially greater? Cuz women? Cuz feminism? I think not.

Oh, and no one would be mad if Vados mopped the floor with UI Goku, even if she did it while bragging.
Well said.

All this problem with Kale and Caulifla would have been averted with the U6 Saiyans knew transformations in the first place and that wouldn't necessitate asspulls if done properly.

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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by Kataphrut » Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:00 am

Melee_Sovereign wrote:
Kataphrut wrote:The scene with 17 fixing 18's leg at the start was cute, and had me convinced they'd be going out.
You do know they're siblings, right?
Ha ha.

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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Mon Nov 27, 2017 5:33 am

Comments on this episode:

- Okay, how does that suit not count as a weapon again? Could it be he's cybernetically linked to it so it's part of his body or something?
- This is what, the second or third time this guy has been beaten up, but no one has even tried to knock him out of bounds yet? Why not?
- It's not really a surprise attack if you're announcing it beforehand...
- What, now dodging isn't 'fighting fair'?
- How does she know that Ribrianne isn't married and doesn't have kids? She might...
- Finally we get another elimination. We haven't had any for a while, discounting Kefla.
- Am I the only one, or is Brianne actually really cute in her base form?
- So are they just cheering her on or are they sending power to her? Considering the Spirit Bomb was allowed I guess this doesn't break the rules either, but if she's getting power from Helles or her angel that wouldn't be fair...
- So is 'love' a different type of ki like genki now?
- And again 17 didn't knock that guy out when he could have... though I guess it's justified if he didn't have time to both do that and save his sister
- I actually think Ribrianne went down a bit too easy here... but most people don't seem to like her so they're probably not complaining
- So it's okay for combatants inside the ring to attack people outside of it? Because if it wasn't, 18 might have gotten erased for that...
- First the Namekians, and now these 3 - are they just suicidally overconfident or are they putting up a facade? They should know that they can't beat Jiren
- Goku's trapped in a black hole? Must be some weird technique or it must be contained somehow, because a real black hole would devour the whole arena pretty quickly.
- I hope we get some Universe 7 eliminations soon... just to increase the tension

Average episode IMO
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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by AndyAvenue91 » Mon Nov 27, 2017 6:13 am

Little bit late to this one but I am so, so glad that that episode panned out the way it did. 18 finally getting a decent fight, teamwork with 17 AND Ribrianne is out! :clap:

Ribrianne had been starting to annoy me for a while so her final rant at 18 about love and beauty made her defeat so much more satisfying. However, I really liked her moment back in the stands observing Krillin and 18.
Lord Beerus wrote:Ribrianne: "Is that guy your husband? He's not beautiful. He doesn't have a nose."

I don't know why, but that made me laugh more than it should have.
I did laugh at this part, although initially I thought Ribrianne was going to find Krillin attractive for his baldness with the way it was shown.
gofishus wrote: I'm just going to be blunt with this: if you are fat in today's society and age, you are not going to be as well liked or respected as someone who is slim (everything else equal). Call it body shaming or whatever you want but unless its a genetic disorder or medical condition that prevents them from excercising, those people should take care of their bodies better.
As it's off topic I am going to keep this pretty short too: I don't think this is the case at all. As CJStriker said, the only time I have witnessed this mentality is online or in playgrounds. Someone's size shouldn't influence respect and from my own experience I am far more likely to have a better first impression of someone who is bigger built than someone who is slim or muscular. I appreciate everybody is different and has different tastes but there is no reason to treat someone as lesser because of their size.
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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by Zillamon51 » Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:52 am

Finally, they're out! Ribrianne and co. were gag characters that waaay overstayed their welcome.

I love it how Ribrianne was like, How can you stand against the power of love? And instead of some sappy speech, 18 just said, "Figure it out." Total boss moment for her. Considering what happened with Roshi, though, I get the feeling she may soon be reunited with "baldy" in the stands.
"...It’s still going to be the same sort of easy-to-understand content as always." - Akira Toriyama, on transitioning from DBZ to DBS.

"Just repeat to yourself, It's just a show,
I should really just relax..." - MST3K theme song

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Super_Divine_Genki
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Re: Super Episode 117 (26 November 2017)

Post by Super_Divine_Genki » Mon Nov 27, 2017 11:02 am

A 10/10 episode of Super. Ribrianne being knocked away repeatedly into and through what had been the tournament grounds is going to be greatly missed -- one of my favorite recurring happenings during this whole run. Also, some great stuff with #18.

Seriously though, I never disliked Ribrianne. She was just kinda there for me. Great entertainment provided throughout her screentime (mainly on the receiving end :P ). Her seiyuu is ace. :)

And Super, as much as Goku is the main man (and how much most of us adore Nozawa-san), please don't be afraid to let other characters (such as Piccolo; we know that Gohan will get spotlighted big-time eventually) have some super-standout screentime too. With Goku "out of stamina" this could've been the best opportunity to give him a rest for a few episodes (after having several to himself already). Goku's position being at the top of any official popularity polls isn't going to be affected. The audience won't leave the show. It'll be ok, trust me. *points at Z*

Zillamon51 wrote:Considering what happened with Roshi, though, I get the feeling she may soon be reunited with "baldy" in the stands.
That's my next U7 elimination as well.

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