Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by JazzMazz » Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:37 am

Polyphase Avatron wrote:
Pannaliciour wrote:
Polyphase Avatron wrote:Comments on this episode:

- So the tournament is being broadcasted live to Universe 2, but what about the other universes? Obviously the majority of Universe 7 has no idea it's happening. Do the Kaioshins decide whether the inhabitants should know or not, or something?
- Vados is such a troll
- I actually though that Saonel and Pirina might have fused with the other Namekians in their universe for the tournament, but I figured that would be the kind of fan-made strategy that most of the teams wouldn't end up using (not to mention they would have to sacrifice the entire species except for those two...)
- So again, I think the 'love' ki is similar to genki that is gathered from other beings to charge the Genki Dama. But if they could gather it from Universe 2, doesn't that mean that Goku could have gathered genki from everyone in universe 7 when forming the Genki Dama?
- The transformation sequence was pretty funny
- I wonder why they didn't have the two of them fuse as well, and then they could add an extra member to the team
- Also the thing about their power needing time to stabilize seems like a retcon, as when Piccolo fused with Nail and Kami, he got a power boost immediately, but maybe it takes longer if you fuse with so many others at once
- Fusing with other Namekians doesn't explain how one of them apparently knows Magic Materialization - was one of the Namekians in their universe a Kami too?
- So Zarbuto absorbing that 'love' allowed him to learn Rosie's technique as well? How does that work?
- That was an interesting scene with Kami and Nail
- I'd complain about the powerscaling with Piccolo matching fighters who are equal to max power Chou Gohan, but that would be minor compared to a lot of the stuff we've seen so far
- I'd also complain about how they can fight in mid-air like that without flying and without jumping so far as to land outside of the ring, but that's old hat by now
- Pretty neat attack, but I still don't understand how people can think that heart-shaped thing is a real black hole... people mentioned it absorbing 18's attack but it also wouldn't distort in form like that when it happened... there's also no singularity inside, it's just a uniform area of high gravity. Not to mention all the hearts everywhere.
- I like the music and the way this scene is executed
- As I have been saying before, though, I would really like to see some more Universe 7 eliminations, because otherwise things will just get boring
- I suppose it's at least nice that Zeno gives them some time to say goodbye
- So is that heart thing that drifted off proof that some part of them survived, or just a visual effect not meant to be taken literally?
- I'm glad that Vados is at least showing some remorse
- Somehow I don't see Katopesla lasting past the next episode

This was a pretty good episode, all things considered. It's starting to seem like we're really getting to the climax of the tournament.
If they call it black hole and they say that even light can't escape = Black Hole in real life. Its a kid show therefore it doesn't look like a real black hole (a form of a heart)
That's very poor logic. If you want to define it as a 'real' black hole, you have to accept the underlying physics that define a real black hole. You ignore them and invoke them simultaneously. It doesn't have properties anywhere close to a real black hole. I can even name shounen anime that did portray accurate black holes (i.e. Gunbuster).
Does this show have the same tone as gunbuster, and has it ever adhered to the accurate representation of anything? The answer to that is no. Hell, Goku went to the friggin moon in some of the earliest chapters of the series, and Super Buu was somehow able to scream out of a dimension. I think those examples alone highlight DB's complete lack of adherence to potraying real life scientific anomolies. Its a cartoon(comic/manga), so it treats those scientific premises in cartoonish(exaggerated) fashion that fits the style of the series.

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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:40 am

JazzMazz wrote:
Polyphase Avatron wrote:
Pannaliciour wrote:
If they call it black hole and they say that even light can't escape = Black Hole in real life. Its a kid show therefore it doesn't look like a real black hole (a form of a heart)
That's very poor logic. If you want to define it as a 'real' black hole, you have to accept the underlying physics that define a real black hole. You ignore them and invoke them simultaneously. It doesn't have properties anywhere close to a real black hole. I can even name shounen anime that did portray accurate black holes (i.e. Gunbuster).
Does this show have the same tone as gunbuster, and has it ever adhered to the accurate representation of anything? The answer to that is no. Hell, Goku went to the friggin moon in some of the earliest chapters of the series, and Super Buu was somehow able to scream out of a dimension. I think those examples alone highlight DB's complete lack of adherence to potraying real life scientific anomolies. Its a cartoon(comic/manga), so it treats those scientific premises in cartoonish(exaggerated) fashion that fits the style of the series.
Which just reinforced the point I'm making, which is that you can't say it's the same as a real-life scientific phenomenon. But this discussion doesn't belong on this thread anyway and I don't want to drag it off topic.
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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by Pluto » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:48 am

We do need a thread like "DB and Physics, a shady love story"
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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by TekTheNinja » Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:54 am

The universe 6 namekians were really cool, which only makes me angrier that while the shitty universe 6 female saiyans got about 6 whole damn episodes, these guys who should have been major threats given all the Namekians they fused with (and would have been an even greater threat if Champa gave THEM the potara) only got HALF OF THIS ONE EPISODE AS FOCUS. I do like that it still appears they are stronger than Piccolo and Gohan, and only got eliminated because of being out-skilled. After all, they hardly seemed phased even with holes through them from Piccolo's makankosappo.
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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by TekTheNinja » Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:00 pm

Loved the Kami and Nail scene, loved Piccolo and Gohan's fantastic fight and win, but honestly wish we had more of this fight instead of the universe 2 stuff. They should have made that it's own episode because as-is, it feels like two separate episodes blended together. That being said, I liked universe 2's unique optimism in the face of being erased.
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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by namekiansaiyan » Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:08 pm

TekTheNinja wrote:The universe 6 namekians were really cool, which only makes me angrier that while the shitty universe 6 female saiyans got about 6 whole damn episodes, these guys who should have been major threats given all the Namekians they fused with (and would have been an even greater threat if Champa gave THEM the potara) only got HALF OF THIS ONE EPISODE AS FOCUS. I do like that it still appears they are stronger than Piccolo and Gohan, and only got eliminated because of being out-skilled. After all, they hardly seemed phased even with holes through them from Piccolo's makankosappo.
Gohan was slightly stronger than them but Piccolo's attack was so strong that Saonel and Pirina could not recover quick enough so Gohan's attack and Piccolo's attack which was still going through them pushed them out the arena.

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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by TekTheNinja » Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:15 pm

namekiansaiyan wrote:Piccolo's attack was so strong that Saonel and Pirina could not recover quick enough so Gohan's attack and Piccolo's attack which was still going through them pushed them out the arena.
I mean... yes? What's your point exactly though? That is in fact the part I said I liked, but what about it?
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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by Michsi » Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:16 pm

TekTheNinja wrote:Loved the Kami and Nail scene, loved Piccolo and Gohan's fantastic fight and win, but honestly wish we had more of this fight instead of the universe 2 stuff. They should have made that it's own episode because as-is, it feels like two separate episodes blended together. That being said, I liked universe 2's unique optimism in the face of being erased.
Me too, but seeing how often they had to re-use animation, I think we should count ourselves lucky we got as much as we did.

Animation aside, the direction and storyboarding was excellent this episode, and the way the two fights came together at the end with the combined Kamehameha was really well executed.

And there was something incredibly effective about U2's send-off, the upbeat talk with that emotional soundtrack playing at the end, Ribrianne's enthusiastic waving as she said bye-bye and then the last shot of that heart floating away and their angel sitting there solemnly watching it go. I did not get attached to anyone from U2 yet that scene still somehow managed to get to me. Well done!

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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by namekiansaiyan » Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:22 pm

TekTheNinja wrote:
namekiansaiyan wrote:Piccolo's attack was so strong that Saonel and Pirina could not recover quick enough so Gohan's attack and Piccolo's attack which was still going through them pushed them out the arena.
I mean... yes? What's your point exactly though? That is in fact the part I said I liked, but what about it?
There really was no point to this apart from they were not really outskilled and was caught by a surprise powerful attack. My main point was Gohan being a little bit stronger then Saonel and Pirina.

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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by kinisking » Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:15 pm

Whatever wrote:
Kataphrut wrote:
Whatever wrote: Gohan needed to be saved both times Piccolo used the spc,he even apologises for the 1st time since he needed to be saved and he pretty much admitted it was his mistake.
Gohan saved Piccolo 2 times in episode 118 as well.
Yes, but it didn't feel like an unequal relationship. Not like in 106 where Gohan choked and Piccolo had to step in. Piccolo firing off the Special Beam Cannon early to help him the first time was treated as a mistake that forced the two of them to do better and trust each other. They both acknowledged their faults. And in the end, Gohan and Piccolo were covering each other to launch their final attacks.

This was more than just sacrificing Piccolo to big up Gohan. This felt like genuine teamwork.
And whatever or not was genuine teamwork is not the point,you said Gohan did not need any help when Piccolo fired the sbc early,something which is not true as Gohan himself admitted it was his fault that Piccolo fired it early because Gohan needed to be saved at that point.
Gohan didn't need help actually. He was just being humble. Piccolo's special beam cannon didn't actually do anything. It didn't stop Pirina(?) from shooting off hjs mouth blast and the namekians plan went off exactly as planned but Gohan was able to defend against it. So even if piccolo didn't shoot off that special beam cannon, nothing would have changed.
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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by Michsi » Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:27 pm

kinisking wrote:[
Gohan didn't need help actually. He was just being humble. Piccolo's special beam cannon didn't actually do anything. It didn't stop Pirina(?) from shooting off hjs mouth blast and the namekians plan went off exactly as planned but Gohan was able to defend against it. So even if piccolo didn't shoot off that special beam cannon, nothing would have changed.
That would defeat the whole purpose or the message of the episode. Gohan was about to be skewered by Saonel; the only reason he didn't look worried was because he had faith in Piccolo as very expertly implied by the camera work . And Gohan was able to fend off the blast but didn't actually defeat Pirina until he got impaled. The scene was pretty clear about that.

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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by kinisking » Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:34 pm

Michsi wrote:
kinisking wrote:[
Gohan didn't need help actually. He was just being humble. Piccolo's special beam cannon didn't actually do anything. It didn't stop Pirina(?) from shooting off hjs mouth blast and the namekians plan went off exactly as planned but Gohan was able to defend against it. So even if piccolo didn't shoot off that special beam cannon, nothing would have changed.
That would defeat the whole purpose or the message of the episode. Gohan was about to be skewered by Saonel; the only reason he didn't look worried was because he had faith in Piccolo as very expertly implied by the camera work . And Gohan was able to fend off the blast but didn't actually defeat Pirina until he got impaled. The scene was pretty clear about that.
I'm talking about the first special beam cannon. He definitely needed the second one and he needed Piccolo's help over all. Not denying that .
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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by namekiansaiyan » Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:37 pm

kinisking wrote:
Whatever wrote:
Kataphrut wrote:
Yes, but it didn't feel like an unequal relationship. Not like in 106 where Gohan choked and Piccolo had to step in. Piccolo firing off the Special Beam Cannon early to help him the first time was treated as a mistake that forced the two of them to do better and trust each other. They both acknowledged their faults. And in the end, Gohan and Piccolo were covering each other to launch their final attacks.

This was more than just sacrificing Piccolo to big up Gohan. This felt like genuine teamwork.
And whatever or not was genuine teamwork is not the point,you said Gohan did not need any help when Piccolo fired the sbc early,something which is not true as Gohan himself admitted it was his fault that Piccolo fired it early because Gohan needed to be saved at that point.
Gohan didn't need help actually. He was just being humble. Piccolo's special beam cannon didn't actually do anything. It didn't stop Pirina(?) from shooting off hjs mouth blast and the namekians plan went off exactly as planned but Gohan was able to defend against it. So even if piccolo didn't shoot off that special beam cannon, nothing would have changed.
Pirina attacked Piccolo because of the Special Beam cannon. Saonel grabbed Gohan and told Pirina to finish Gohan which is why Piccolo fired early.

They would have got Gohan again with Saonel's Ki blade at the end but Piccolo was charged this time and was enough to finish them with the Kamehameha.

If Piccolo never used his Special Beam Cannon, Gohan would have been out of the tournament both times.
Last edited by namekiansaiyan on Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by Michsi » Mon Dec 04, 2017 1:44 pm

kinisking wrote:
Michsi wrote:
kinisking wrote:[
Gohan didn't need help actually. He was just being humble. Piccolo's special beam cannon didn't actually do anything. It didn't stop Pirina(?) from shooting off hjs mouth blast and the namekians plan went off exactly as planned but Gohan was able to defend against it. So even if piccolo didn't shoot off that special beam cannon, nothing would have changed.
That would defeat the whole purpose or the message of the episode. Gohan was about to be skewered by Saonel; the only reason he didn't look worried was because he had faith in Piccolo as very expertly implied by the camera work . And Gohan was able to fend off the blast but didn't actually defeat Pirina until he got impaled. The scene was pretty clear about that.
I'm talking about the first special beam cannon. He definitely needed the second one and he needed Piccolo's help over all. Not denying that .
Aaahhh, ok. Well, assuming it was a blast as strong as the one he used to battle with Gohan's kamehameha, I'd say Gohan might have needed help there too. The one Pirina sent towards Piccolo, the one Gohan was able to guard against fairly easily, came after he got hit in the gut. I assume it diminished some of its force.

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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by kinisking » Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:32 pm

Michsi wrote:
kinisking wrote:
Michsi wrote:
That would defeat the whole purpose or the message of the episode. Gohan was about to be skewered by Saonel; the only reason he didn't look worried was because he had faith in Piccolo as very expertly implied by the camera work . And Gohan was able to fend off the blast but didn't actually defeat Pirina until he got impaled. The scene was pretty clear about that.
I'm talking about the first special beam cannon. He definitely needed the second one and he needed Piccolo's help over all. Not denying that .
Aaahhh, ok. Well, assuming it was a blast as strong as the one he used to battle with Gohan's kamehameha, I'd say Gohan might have needed help there too. The one Pirina sent towards Piccolo, the one Gohan was able to guard against fairly easily, came after he got hit in the gut. I assume it diminished some of its force.
I thought the point of the scene was to show the Namekian durability but honestly it could go either way.
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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by Whatever » Mon Dec 04, 2017 3:32 pm

kinisking wrote:
Gohan didn't need help actually. He was just being humble. Piccolo's special beam cannon didn't actually do anything. It didn't stop Pirina(?) from shooting off hjs mouth blast and the namekians plan went off exactly as planned but Gohan was able to defend against it. So even if piccolo didn't shoot off that special beam cannon, nothing would have changed.
The first sbc gave him enough time escape from Saonel's grab.Gohan even admits that Piccolo had/was forced to do it.
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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by Noah » Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:34 pm

Pluto wrote:We do need a thread like "DB and Physics, a shady love story"
Yes, we do!
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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by Tombstone1988 » Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:59 pm

*DISCLAIMER: My speakers for my computer broke this weekend so I didn't have audio when watching this episode. As this is a subtitled show, I still got most of the necessary info, like animation and plot.*

Things I Liked:

-The character writing was fairly strong this episode.
-Little throwbacks to Kami/Nail and the Gohan vs. Cell beam struggle were neat.
-The action was mostly pretty good, mainly on the Namekian side of things.
-The ending was well-done.

Things I'm Mixed On:

-A lot of the art and animation, particularly in the second half of the episode, was quite well done; conversely, there was a lot (and I mean a LOT) of reused animation this episode.
-I thought the fight between Universes 6 and 7 was good, but after hyping it up for about 5 episodes, relegating it to half an episode (at most) was pretty disappointing.
-After such a badass showing last week, 17 and 18 did a whole lot of standing around doing nothing this episode. I'm glad they were here and all, but they could have contributed a bit more to the episode.

Things I Disliked:

-Why did they make such a big deal about stamina in the first half of this tournament if Goku can still just activate SSB (with Kaioken) whenever he wants to anyway? You'd think being tired would be some sort of, you know, weakness for the character. Instead, he can just shrug off everything Universe 2 throws at him like it's no big deal. Come on, Super. Please. A little consistency.
-Hey, did you guys get the joke with Universe 2? They inherited the power of love, and they transformed like the Kamikaze Fireballs did! Except, they're not pretty maidens, they're ugly aliens! It's so funny! (Yeah, I didn't care for the comedy this episode. I know a lot of people will have liked it, so I don't expect this to be a negative for most, but my opinion is just that.)
-Cramming both universes' erasures into one episode seems great for dramatic effect, but it also has the unfortunate consequence of rushing their demises. As such, the fights were both quite short and lackluster overall. Combined with all of the cutaways, there was very little to the actual fights themselves this episode.

Overall, I thought this episode was above average but not great. I liked the stronger writing and emotional impact of this episode. However, the episode felt too rushed with having 5 fighters that needed to be eliminated for their end-of-episode drama. The Universe 6 Namekians therefore had a less-than-impressive showing despite the interesting build-up beforehand and Universe 2 just fell back on comedy (which is hit-or-miss, depending on your enjoyment of said comedy). It's by no means a bad episode, and if we could maintain this level of character writing in episodes with better action and focus, I think Super's headed in the right direction. Also, the NEP seems fairly interesting.
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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by CJStriker_CBR » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:51 am

I highly suggest watching the Video Review of Episode 118 below, it is Very Good at breaking down why Episode 118 is not only one of the Best Episodes in the ToP, but one of the Best in ALL of Super so Far! :thumbup:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9jBFYrlavg
--- ADMIN NOTE: THIS SIGNATURE IS FAR TOO LONG. PLEASE REDUCE IN SIZE. ---
Let it Bloom. Let it Ring. The Song of Love & Victory!”:clap:
Brianne De Chateau/Ribrianne!
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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by buutenks » Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:10 am

I must say, apart from the ending, the episode felt lackluster, rushed. They IMO should have spent less time on kefla/kale/caulifla vs Goku and more on the u6 namekians. i found them much more interesting.

Also, seriously, why do they bother with the stamina thing if it doesnt freaking matter?

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