Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by mAcChaos » Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:17 am

I am starting to realize why. It's a plot point to give Goku an excuse to master UI during the tournament. He has to keep pushing against being exhausted to break his limits.
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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by Torturephile » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:23 pm

mAcChaos wrote:I am starting to realize why. It's a plot point to give Goku an excuse to master UI during the tournament. He has to keep pushing against being exhausted to break his limits.
I think even Whis even referenced or implied it at one point in this episode.
From Super episode 113 thread:
MaskedRider wrote:
Torturephile wrote:
hunduel wrote:I liked this episode. I seriously don't know why people hate it.
namekiansaiyan wrote:I seriously don't see why some of you like this episode when nothing happened and was basically filler.
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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by PsionicWarrior » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:41 pm

10/10

One of the best written and best directed episode of the whole TOP. I have almost no complaints, thank you for finally making me appreciate U2, for giving us a great fights full of DB mythology and characters dignity. I don't care about Super's mistakes in previous episodes, this episode is solid definitive proof these guys can make great Dragon Ball. Man, out of 118 eps, if like 80 were this level, Super would be one of the best animes around airing now.

Congrats again and please don't make 10 crap episodes now lol

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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by Torturephile » Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:02 pm

I wish TFS still did those Super abridged shorts because of Kami and Neil's scene with Piccolo.
From Super episode 113 thread:
MaskedRider wrote:
Torturephile wrote:
hunduel wrote:I liked this episode. I seriously don't know why people hate it.
namekiansaiyan wrote:I seriously don't see why some of you like this episode when nothing happened and was basically filler.
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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by Nero<>Akira » Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:10 pm

Anybody not familiar with working out doesn't understand Whis' basic concept of Goku needing to constantly push himself. When you put yourself in certain conditions, you get used to it. You can't attain anything greater if you don't go beyond which is the case with Ultra Instinct. Seems like it will only activate when you go beyond what you are used to.
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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:56 pm

So does anyone else wonder why there's a no killing rule in this tournament if all of the members of every losing team are sentenced to death immediately?
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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by BlueBasilisk » Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:08 pm

Polyphase Avatron wrote:So does anyone else wonder why there's a no killing rule in this tournament if all of the members of every losing team are sentenced to death immediately?
If anyone from the winning team got killed they'd have to use the wish for that instead of whatever they wanted. Unless it's like Frieza and nobody cares if they died.

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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by mAcChaos » Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:01 am

Polyphase Avatron wrote:So does anyone else wonder why there's a no killing rule in this tournament if all of the members of every losing team are sentenced to death immediately?
It would be too easy for the strong guys to just kill everyone and all teamwork would go out the window. With the tournament rules they have to focus on throwing people out which enables tactics.
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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by Ki Breaker » Wed Dec 06, 2017 1:21 am

Polyphase Avatron wrote:So does anyone else wonder why there's a no killing rule in this tournament if all of the members of every losing team are sentenced to death immediately?
I would assume it was used to help keep hit at bay, whatever came with that decision was added bonus..
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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by KingKaash » Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:04 am

Michsi wrote:
HeroR wrote:
Michsi wrote:
Action and drama aside, it was a great episode for character interaction. Vados and Champa take the cake, but it was filled with small delightful moments, Krillin reacting to 18 calling herself a goddess, the androids goading Goku to play along, Caulifla keeping her "promise".

As I said, great episode! More, please!
I honestly think the action was lackluster outside of a few scenes. It were the characters that made this episode, mostly U2 and U6. Seeing two universes make their final stand against overwhelming odds and accepting the end result, good stuff. It says a lot when a show like Dragon Ball which is know for its action over character interactions have an episode where the action itself was alright, but it was the characters that drove everything.

Also the Grand Priest gave props to U7 for standing up and winning despite everyone trying to kill them.

An episode having just a few well animated action scenes is pretty much what I've come to expect from Super, and most shounen type series anyway, even when those episodes are supposed to be stand-outs. They re-used a lot of frames too, which is deducts points, but I've become a lot more lenient when it comes to such type of short-cuts. But by action I meant how well they handled their serious bits, choosing the right kind of music, fight composition, etc. Taken as a whole, it was well done.

But yeah, it's the characters that made this episode. I didn't even mind the bittersweet send-off and how everyone was just a tad bit too up-beat given the circumstance.
KingKaash wrote: As for the fighting, Gohan can almost keep up with the entire U6 Planet Namek by himself and only needs Piccolo for the finish.
I keep seeing this - the subs said "many of our people volunteered". It's not the entire race. If feel like this misconception comes from Multiverse again....
You're probably right. I was watching the scene where it shows Planet Namek in the back and a bunch of shadowy Namekians behind Pirina and Saonel so I wasn't really paying attention to the subs and just assumed they said all of Planet Namek. My bad
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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by Artorias » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:09 am

Asura wrote:
Artorias wrote:There are certain episodes in Super that I like, but I can completely understand why others do not. Even for the special, which I adored, I could totally understand someone getting bored due to the fact that it was basically just a mindless alpha slug fest with nothing really happening on a narrative or character level.

This episode, however, isn't like that. I genuinely don't understand how you could be a fan of this franchise and these characters and NOT enjoy this. 118 was just fantastic on nearly every front. Action, direction, music, writing, character moments. Everything.

Most of the complaints I've seen are either people misunderstanding the point of certain scenes or...engaging in power scaling debates which...well let's just say I think is the single most boring way you could discuss an episode.

Only real major gripe is the reused animation in the first half, which was admittedly, well....RIDICULOUS in how excessive it was. I don't think there was a single piece of animation in that first half except for the initial little scuffle between Goku and U2 that wasn't bank.
I enjoyed the episode, and I think most people did. I just didn't find it fantastic on nearly every front. It was good on every front, it was a good episode. However, there were a lot of things that could have been done better and this should have been a two part episode to truly cover everything without feeling as rushed as it did here. On its own, this was a great episode, but considering some of the fantastic episodes we've been getting recently, I don't see how this one far and away stands out as one of the greatest episodes in the entire series like so many are claiming, and it's not that certain scenes are being misunderstood, they're just not written nearly as well as they could have been. Some people are fine with that though, and others want more depth to the writing. It's a kid's show at the end of the day though so I guess I'm the fool for wanting something more compelling.

Episodes like 116, 114, 110, 109, 107, 105, 104, 95, and 94 are much, much stronger contenders for being some of the best episodes in the entire series IMO.
Don't get me wrong, the people claiming it's "the best episode in the series" are going WAY overboard. When we have masterpieces like episode 56 (Goku Rose appearance), we need to chill out and keep our hype in check a bit.

So yea, I'm not expecting you or anyone to LOVE it like so many of us do. I just find that most people that I've seen saying "wow this was so mediocre" either don't have good reasoning, or they list one or two examples of weakness, like the reused animation, and let that determine the quality of the whole thing. That's a trend I've noticed a lot lately. Certain people will claim an episode is "trash" and then proceed to list like 2 examples of MINOR issues as support.

I also don't really know what scenes you think required clearer explanations. I thought this episode was one of the better episodes at providing just the right amount of dialogue and explanations without going overboard, leaving some things to interpretations, like the fantastic "Say something" line from Beerus.

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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by GodKaio-Ken » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:51 am

Artorias wrote:
Asura wrote:
Artorias wrote:There are certain episodes in Super that I like, but I can completely understand why others do not. Even for the special, which I adored, I could totally understand someone getting bored due to the fact that it was basically just a mindless alpha slug fest with nothing really happening on a narrative or character level.

This episode, however, isn't like that. I genuinely don't understand how you could be a fan of this franchise and these characters and NOT enjoy this. 118 was just fantastic on nearly every front. Action, direction, music, writing, character moments. Everything.

Most of the complaints I've seen are either people misunderstanding the point of certain scenes or...engaging in power scaling debates which...well let's just say I think is the single most boring way you could discuss an episode.

Only real major gripe is the reused animation in the first half, which was admittedly, well....RIDICULOUS in how excessive it was. I don't think there was a single piece of animation in that first half except for the initial little scuffle between Goku and U2 that wasn't bank.
I enjoyed the episode, and I think most people did. I just didn't find it fantastic on nearly every front. It was good on every front, it was a good episode. However, there were a lot of things that could have been done better and this should have been a two part episode to truly cover everything without feeling as rushed as it did here. On its own, this was a great episode, but considering some of the fantastic episodes we've been getting recently, I don't see how this one far and away stands out as one of the greatest episodes in the entire series like so many are claiming, and it's not that certain scenes are being misunderstood, they're just not written nearly as well as they could have been. Some people are fine with that though, and others want more depth to the writing. It's a kid's show at the end of the day though so I guess I'm the fool for wanting something more compelling.

Episodes like 116, 114, 110, 109, 107, 105, 104, 95, and 94 are much, much stronger contenders for being some of the best episodes in the entire series IMO.
Don't get me wrong, the people claiming it's "the best episode in the series" are going WAY overboard. When we have masterpieces like episode 56 (Goku Rose appearance), we need to chill out and keep our hype in check a bit.

So yea, I'm not expecting you or anyone to LOVE it like so many of us do. I just find that most people that I've seen saying "wow this was so mediocre" either don't have good reasoning, or they list one or two examples of weakness, like the reused animation, and let that determine the quality of the whole thing. That's a trend I've noticed a lot lately. Certain people will claim an episode is "trash" and then proceed to list like 2 examples of MINOR issues as support.

I also don't really know what scenes you think required clearer explanations. I thought this episode was one of the better episodes at providing just the right amount of dialogue and explanations without going overboard, leaving some things to interpretations, like the fantastic "Say something" line from Beerus.
You realize not everyone likes the same things right? Its possible to disagree with you about what the best episode is.

That said this was a decent one and I don't disagree with anything but trying to quantify which is best.
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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by Artorias » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:07 am

GodKaio-Ken wrote:
Artorias wrote:
Asura wrote:
I enjoyed the episode, and I think most people did. I just didn't find it fantastic on nearly every front. It was good on every front, it was a good episode. However, there were a lot of things that could have been done better and this should have been a two part episode to truly cover everything without feeling as rushed as it did here. On its own, this was a great episode, but considering some of the fantastic episodes we've been getting recently, I don't see how this one far and away stands out as one of the greatest episodes in the entire series like so many are claiming, and it's not that certain scenes are being misunderstood, they're just not written nearly as well as they could have been. Some people are fine with that though, and others want more depth to the writing. It's a kid's show at the end of the day though so I guess I'm the fool for wanting something more compelling.

Episodes like 116, 114, 110, 109, 107, 105, 104, 95, and 94 are much, much stronger contenders for being some of the best episodes in the entire series IMO.
Don't get me wrong, the people claiming it's "the best episode in the series" are going WAY overboard. When we have masterpieces like episode 56 (Goku Rose appearance), we need to chill out and keep our hype in check a bit.

So yea, I'm not expecting you or anyone to LOVE it like so many of us do. I just find that most people that I've seen saying "wow this was so mediocre" either don't have good reasoning, or they list one or two examples of weakness, like the reused animation, and let that determine the quality of the whole thing. That's a trend I've noticed a lot lately. Certain people will claim an episode is "trash" and then proceed to list like 2 examples of MINOR issues as support.

I also don't really know what scenes you think required clearer explanations. I thought this episode was one of the better episodes at providing just the right amount of dialogue and explanations without going overboard, leaving some things to interpretations, like the fantastic "Say something" line from Beerus.
You realize not everyone likes the same things right? Its possible to disagree with you about what the best episode is.

That said this was a decent one and I don't disagree with anything but trying to quantify which is best.
Yes...what about this post makes you think I believe otherwise?

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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by GodKaio-Ken » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:33 am

Artorias wrote:
GodKaio-Ken wrote:
Artorias wrote:
Don't get me wrong, the people claiming it's "the best episode in the series" are going WAY overboard. When we have masterpieces like episode 56 (Goku Rose appearance), we need to chill out and keep our hype in check a bit.

So yea, I'm not expecting you or anyone to LOVE it like so many of us do. I just find that most people that I've seen saying "wow this was so mediocre" either don't have good reasoning, or they list one or two examples of weakness, like the reused animation, and let that determine the quality of the whole thing. That's a trend I've noticed a lot lately. Certain people will claim an episode is "trash" and then proceed to list like 2 examples of MINOR issues as support.

I also don't really know what scenes you think required clearer explanations. I thought this episode was one of the better episodes at providing just the right amount of dialogue and explanations without going overboard, leaving some things to interpretations, like the fantastic "Say something" line from Beerus.
You realize not everyone likes the same things right? Its possible to disagree with you about what the best episode is.

That said this was a decent one and I don't disagree with anything but trying to quantify which is best.
Yes...what about this post makes you think I believe otherwise?
Sorry I'd just woken up and it came across more rude than intended.

It originally seemed to me like you were downing others who did think it's great but I reread it and understand what you're saying.
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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by PsionicWarrior » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:40 am

Noah wrote:
precita wrote:^ That fanart is out of character.
I don't think it would be OOC if Beerus broke in tears, after all Champa was going to be erased "forever". In fact it would make the scene much more impactful.
I respectfully disagree, Beerus didn't lose it and acted like what he is, a god of destruction. What was really done extremely well in that scene is that behind how stoic he seemed to be, it was crystal clear he was sad. Champa too was really class with his goodbye, it was a fantastic scene all around. They nailed it 100%.
Same as how Namekians went, it's Dragon Ball where people are proud and accept strong fates, not some cheesy anime where everyone cries :P

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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by SupremeKai25 » Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:20 pm

it's Dragon Ball where people are proud and accept strong fates, not some cheesy anime where everyone cries
*cough* Except Trunks *cough*
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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by Ki Breaker » Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:12 pm

SupremeKai25 wrote:
it's Dragon Ball where people are proud and accept strong fates, not some cheesy anime where everyone cries
*cough* Except Trunks *cough*
He is talking about real Dragonball, not some cheap knockoff know as super the anime
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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by kinisking » Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:42 pm

Whatever wrote:
kinisking wrote:
Gohan didn't need help actually. He was just being humble. Piccolo's special beam cannon didn't actually do anything. It didn't stop Pirina(?) from shooting off hjs mouth blast and the namekians plan went off exactly as planned but Gohan was able to defend against it. So even if piccolo didn't shoot off that special beam cannon, nothing would have changed.
The first sbc gave him enough time escape from Saonel's grab.Gohan even admits that Piccolo had/was forced to do it.
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
Piccolo was forced to do it because he thought it would help. That doesn't actually discredit anything.

Him being given enough time to dodge is debatable but it's a pretty good point.
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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by Namekian Fuse » Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:43 pm

Michsi wrote:
kinisking wrote:[
Gohan didn't need help actually. He was just being humble. Piccolo's special beam cannon didn't actually do anything. It didn't stop Pirina(?) from shooting off hjs mouth blast and the namekians plan went off exactly as planned but Gohan was able to defend against it. So even if piccolo didn't shoot off that special beam cannon, nothing would have changed.
That would defeat the whole purpose or the message of the episode. Gohan was about to be skewered by Saonel; the only reason he didn't look worried was because he had faith in Piccolo as very expertly implied by the camera work . And Gohan was able to fend off the blast but didn't actually defeat Pirina until he got impaled. The scene was pretty clear about that.
Exactly. Gohan went full on ultimate. He said it himself. I've always liked Piccolo's and Gohan's relationship ever since Dragon Ball Z. I hated that Piccolo was not able to keep up with the Saiyans in power levels, and because of it I felt the true interest in Piccolo's and Gohan's relationship suffered. Piccolo should always be on par with the Saiyans, as he likes to refine his abilities as much as they do.

Also, I don't think Pirina and Saonel were at full power. The fusions were not yet complete. Saonel was strong enough to ride the middle of Ultimate Gohan's Kamehameha Wave and an equal blast by Pirina as strong as Gohan's without breaking stride or showing any real damage.

Piccolo and the Namekians of Universe 7 need to learn from them.

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Re: Super Episode 118 (3 December 2017)

Post by Gig » Thu Dec 07, 2017 4:20 am

What do you think that "Say something" Beerus said was for?
- To Champa, as "You should have said something to me."
- To himself, as "I should have said something to him."
- To himself, as "I should talk about something else, I don't want people to understand I'm feeling sad."
- To the show writers, as "Show something else, aim that camera somewhere else! Go ahead with the tournament, let me alone."
Or a combination of them?

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