Super Episode 120 (17 December 2017)

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Re: Super Episode 120 (17 December 2017)

Post by Android350 » Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:43 pm

Still hoping for android 35 to make its debute and fight until the last minute. Or just the complete team as it is now...

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Re: Super Episode 120 (17 December 2017)

Post by Doctor. » Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:55 pm

Asura wrote:Why do people feel like they have to “explain” why the robots are strong? Why should they have to explain why any new fighter is strong?

This just screams of people having pre-conceived notions in their head of how strong characters should be before we even see them doing anything.
They shouldn't explain why a new fighter is strong but they should definitely keep in mind these fighters got taken out by Caulifla a few episodes ago and they couldn't even knock out a tired Goku while ganging up on him. Making ultimate Gohan struggle with them even before merging is definitely a bit far-fetched.

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Re: Super Episode 120 (17 December 2017)

Post by Hugo Boss » Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:00 pm

precita wrote:Your entire vendetta against this ep in particular is "robots." Purposely not watching an episode with preconceived notions is odd to say the least.
Pointing what people should use as justification to not do something strikes me as odd too. I don’t like robots fighting in anime, yet I liked Magetta. Those u3 robots?? You know, opinions.

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Re: Super Episode 120 (17 December 2017)

Post by buutenks » Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:20 pm

Doctor. wrote:
Asura wrote:Why do people feel like they have to “explain” why the robots are strong? Why should they have to explain why any new fighter is strong?

This just screams of people having pre-conceived notions in their head of how strong characters should be before we even see them doing anything.
They shouldn't explain why a new fighter is strong but they should definitely keep in mind these fighters got taken out by Caulifla a few episodes ago and they couldn't even knock out a tired Goku while ganging up on him. Making ultimate Gohan struggle with them even before merging is definitely a bit far-fetched.
Well,Super is a bit inconsistent. Not much u can do about it.

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Re: Super Episode 120 (17 December 2017)

Post by Asura » Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:46 pm

Doctor. wrote:
Asura wrote:Why do people feel like they have to “explain” why the robots are strong? Why should they have to explain why any new fighter is strong?

This just screams of people having pre-conceived notions in their head of how strong characters should be before we even see them doing anything.
They shouldn't explain why a new fighter is strong but they should definitely keep in mind these fighters got taken out by Caulifla a few episodes ago and they couldn't even knock out a tired Goku while ganging up on him. Making ultimate Gohan struggle with them even before merging is definitely a bit far-fetched.

I might have to go back and rewatch, but if I remember right, was there really even much of a fight between Goku and the robots? I thought most of it was just offscreen, and I know that Goku wasn’t having an easy time with them.

And in terms of Caulifla, wasn’t that a surprise attack? Not quite fair to judge based on that.

Also doesn’t Gohan say he’s using his full power AFTER they merge? So he wasn’t even at full power when he was “struggling” against them.

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Re: Super Episode 120 (17 December 2017)

Post by Doctor. » Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:51 pm

Asura wrote:I might have to go back and rewatch, but if I remember right, was there really even much of a fight between Goku and the robots? I thought most of it was just offscreen, and I know that Goku wasn’t having an easy time with them.

And in terms of Caulifla, wasn’t that a surprise attack? Not quite fair to judge based on that.

Also doesn’t Gohan say he’s using his full power AFTER they merge? So he wasn’t even at full power when he was “struggling” against them.
It was off-screen but it's implied Goku held his own, considering that an entire episode passed and he wasn't eliminated.

It's stupid to use the surprise attack as an excuse. The moment one gets hit, the other two should have been alerted.

Which is stupid, considering Gohan has no reason not to be at full power. Regardless, he DID transform, so his base form clearly wasn't enough.

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Re: Super Episode 120 (17 December 2017)

Post by PsionicWarrior » Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:51 pm

Yet ANOTHER whatever episode. Why use U3 no one cares about at such crucial moment, again nothing was told on the narrative. Why didn't they kept U6 for pre-boss? Whatever...
At least U3's last trump we see in next EP's preview card has a cool design, even if its sole purpose is prolly just to sell another DB Heroes sigh

3/10

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Re: Super Episode 120 (17 December 2017)

Post by Lord Beerus » Mon Dec 18, 2017 4:13 pm

I don't really see what the big issue is with Universe 3 robots.

Caulfila bum-rushed all three of them initially so fast the didn't have enough time to react.

And when it came to this episodes, the robots couldn't do jack shit to Ultimate Gohan. If they were so much of threat to Ultimate Gohan individually, they wouldn't have merged together as last resort. Kaioshion even comments that Gohan had the remaining contestant of Universe 3 on the run.

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Re: Super Episode 120 (17 December 2017)

Post by precita » Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:09 pm

Kid Trunks kicked Fat Buu 100 yards in the Buu arc because he caught him off guard when he was standing over Vegeta. Kid Trunks isn't even a fraction as powerful as Buu was.

I don't see what the big deal is. Characters much weaker than others knock each other off guard all the time.

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Re: Super Episode 120 (17 December 2017)

Post by Noah » Mon Dec 18, 2017 7:20 pm

buutenks wrote:Overall, I think ToP produced much more interesting episodes than Black Goku arc.
Animation and art wise only.
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Re: Super Episode 120 (17 December 2017)

Post by Lord Beerus » Mon Dec 18, 2017 9:03 pm

precita wrote:Kid Trunks kicked Fat Buu 100 yards in the Buu arc because he caught him off guard when he was standing over Vegeta. Kid Trunks isn't even a fraction as powerful as Buu was.

I don't see what the big deal is. Characters much weaker than others knock each other off guard all the time.
And before that, Piccolo was able dropkick Final Form Freeza, who at that stage was dozens of times stronger than Piccolo, into several hundred feet away and into an ocean, primarily Freeza wasn't expecting it.

It's a total non-issue.

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Re: Super Episode 120 (17 December 2017)

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Tue Dec 19, 2017 1:48 am

Comments on this episode:

- So is that staff just a communications device? I guess Mosco can't communicate telepathically like the other Hakaishin then?
- Honestly his 'defense powers' haven't impressed me very much so far. And even if he was completely indestructible he could still be knocked off the edge of the arena.
- So is Goku too exhausted to transform anymore, or what? Because now seems like a good time for it.
- Are those energy blasts or missiles? They're trailing smoke behind them...
- So are 17 and 18 just pushing this guy in a circle around the ring or something? You'd figure he would have reached the edge by now
- For supposedly having the greatest defensive power in universe 3, he went down pretty easily. I also bet that the other universe 3 warriors (and the gestalts) have much more impressive durability
- I guess it would be too much to hope for for someone to interrupt their transformation sequence...
- 1256% of which one of them, though? Or does he mean the fusion is 1256% as powerful as all three of them added together traditionally?
- Since their ki can be sensed, are these guys actually cyborgs who use ki rather than the kind of energy 17 and 18 use?
- Is Jiren actually acknowledging that guy's strength?
- Maybe Gohan should try a surprise attack on Paparoni instead...
- Goku and Vegeta fighting together again is pretty neat
- I figured Gohan was going to aim that blast at Paparoni, actually
- Gohan's full power is more effective than SSJB attacks from Vegeta and Goku combined - I guess that just goes to show that they hold back a lot even while using that form
- Vegeta's smirk after Gohan finishes his attack is just plain silly looking
- So is Paparoni going to sacrifice his own life to power up his allies or something?
- That's actually a pretty cool design for Universe 3's final warrior. Reminds me of Hatchiyak a bit.
- I also like the fact that Freeza is getting involved now

Okay episode, not that great though
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Re: Super Episode 120 (17 December 2017)

Post by BWri » Tue Dec 19, 2017 1:50 am

I ended up watching Anime Ajay's amazing animation breakdown of 120 which in turn made me curious enough to watch the episode. It was okay. A lot of work was put into the action, but I couldn't be bothered to care about any of it. While I do like Paparoni and Biara, the designs and lack of personality from the other 3 bots just made them lackluster. I couldn't get too hyped about the merger either because three trash can looking characters (well, the Giro looking one is okay) can only merge into a bigger trash can. I thought they eliminated Biara, the most interesting of the designs, too quickly. I still don't understand how rudimentary looking robots can fight at this level. Two of the bots are designed in a way that is not efficient for fighting at such high speeds. You'd expect some aerodynamics to be involved but these things are clunky.

Anyways, good stuff for Gohan here, but I'd like him to fight someone that feels more important. I hope he makes it to the Pride Troopers.

What I'm curious about is what sort of energy source these robots use, because Goku could apparently sense it. I'm guessing they run on ki, which is a cool idea for a robot. I wish they'd shed some light on this detail, because then I'd find something interesting about the bots.

I did like the Goku, Gohan, and Vegeta teamup as well as the team attack of 17 and 18. Wanted more Biara. Next week looks better with Frieza joining the fray and Aniraza rampaging. I can't wait to see how this creature comes about. It looks interesting, even if it is a big Hatchiyak reference.

Can someone make a list of all the DBZ movie reference characters in the Top? Only ones I noticed were:
Kale = Broly
Pirina = Slug
Shansta = Janemba
Aniraza = Hatchiyak

Oh and GT references too
Mosco = Luud
Tall Blue U2 guy = Rildo
U2 Tsufurian = Dr. Myuu
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Re: Super Episode 120 (17 December 2017)

Post by Gig » Tue Dec 19, 2017 5:08 am

BWri wrote: Oh and GT references too
U2 Tsufurian = Dr. Myuu
Why this one?

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Re: Super Episode 120 (17 December 2017)

Post by Noah » Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:50 am

BWri wrote:Can someone make a list of all the DBZ movie reference characters in the Top? Only ones I noticed were:

Shansta = Janemba
This one you forced a little bit.
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Re: Super Episode 120 (17 December 2017)

Post by BWri » Tue Dec 19, 2017 12:03 pm

Gig wrote:
BWri wrote: Oh and GT references too
U2 Tsufurian = Dr. Myuu
Why this one?
Because they are both short old Tsufurians wearing helmets, with the same epic 'stache.
Noah wrote:
BWri wrote:Can someone make a list of all the DBZ movie reference characters in the Top? Only ones I noticed were:

Shansta = Janemba
This one you forced a little bit.
Mainly in design. Shansta favors form 1 Janemba as others have pointed out, but that's where the similarity ends.

edit: Oh yeah, I just remembered Maji Kayo = Baby
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Re: Super Episode 120 (17 December 2017)

Post by Tombstone1988 » Tue Dec 19, 2017 1:05 pm

Things I Liked:

-Very good action, mainly in the first half of the episode.
-17 and 18 are basically the MVPs of the tournament in my eyes.
-Loving the actual teamwork with Universe 7; shame it took so many episodes to get to this point.
-Gohan got a good showing, a nice turnaround compared to earlier in the tournament.

Things I'm Mixed On:

-I noticed quite a few re-used animations during this episode, but a lot of the shots that weren't recycled in the first half were very good.
-I was almost frustrated that this was going to be the third episode in a row with a universe being erased, but thankfully the episode slowed the pace down right at the end to add a little extra weight.
-I guess they're trying to make stamina look important again, which is interesting and can be appreciated, but their logic seems... flawed. Gohan comments that Goku needs to recover his stamina, but he's been fighting just fine despite his gas tank supposedly being on empty. In addition, after what can't be more than 20-30 seconds (in-universe), he's apparently recovered enough stamina to fight on par with Vegeta. I don't know, I guess I feel that they're partially addressing it but not fully addressing it, if that makes sense.

Things I Disliked:

-If Freeza standing on a rock doing nothing isn't a meme by this point, I'm ashamed of the internet.
-Still wondering why Jiren isn't doing anything. He does want to win the tournament, right?
-Minor point, but Pararoni (or however it's spelled) seems far more generic than they first made him out to be.
-Speaking of Pararoni, wasn't part of universe 3's plan early on to sit back and gather data? Weren't they analyzing the fighters and learning their strengths/weaknesses? If so, how did they not realize that 17 and 18 have infinite stamina? Especially since the two of them have stated more than once that they possess infinite stamina?
-I fully admit I might be alone on this, but I find the universe 3 fighters to be quite boring. I don't feel engrossed like I have with other fights/fighters.
-This episode seems to have forgotten past events multiple times; first when there is no acknowledgement that Viara had already been knocked away by 17, and again when the universe 3 robots required Gohan to go ultimate to deal with despite the fact that worn-out base Goku was able to hold them all off long enough for base Caulifla to knock them away. This point didn't ruin the episode or anything, but I did find it annoying personally.


Overall, I thought this was better than last week but still only above average as a whole. The first half of the episode was definitely better than the second half. The episode was a quite action-oriented, and I quite enjoyed most (but not all) of the action. The writing seemed to be one of the episode's bigger shortcomings, but it never was bad enough to ruin the episode. The other main complaint I would have was probably best summed up by MajinMan, when he stated the episode felt incomplete. I definitely got that vibe as well from the episode's ending. Not one of my favorites of the tournament, but not one of the worst either. Just sort of middle of the road.

Lord Beerus wrote:I don't really see what the big issue is with Universe 3 robots.

Caulfila bum-rushed all three of them initially so fast the didn't have enough time to react.
If it was just one robot she bum-rushed, I would 100% agree with you. However, there were three of them. If their reaction times are so bad that they couldn't put up their defenses after she attacked the first of them, I am amazed universe 3 has made it this far into the tournament.
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Re: Super Episode 120 (17 December 2017)

Post by Elvis143BRA » Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:25 am

I'm tired of this shitty arc. I'm tired of seeing base Goku and Vegeta knocking off opponents like they were nothing. I'm tired of seeing U7 winning almost every fight. I'm tired of seeing the fake tension they are trying to convey with every universe that gets deleted. I'm tired of seeing the androids. I'm tired of seeing U11 doing nothing. I'm tired of this childish Goku.

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Re: Super Episode 120 (17 December 2017)

Post by Noah » Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:39 am

Elvis143BRA wrote:I'm tired of this shitty arc. I'm tired of seeing base Goku and Vegeta knocking off opponents like they were nothing. I'm tired of seeing U7 winning almost every fight. I'm tired of seeing the fake tension they are trying to convey with every universe that gets deleted. I'm tired of seeing the androids. I'm tired of seeing U11 doing nothing. I'm tired of this childish Goku.
I feel you mate and I believe your thoughts would be apreciated here
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Re: Super Episode 120 (17 December 2017)

Post by julianix » Wed Dec 20, 2017 3:45 pm

Another bad episode on every level. The robots are dumb, the power scaling is dumb and everything about the magazord was bad. I'm getting tired of dbs episodes like this. Can we please have another good episode soon. I can't take the gag anymore.

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