Super Episode 122 (7 January 2018)

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Draconic
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Re: Super Episode 122 (7 January 2018)

Post by Draconic » Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:42 pm

This episode was truly great. Vegeta got beat up and that is always great, but he also showed his good side, as it usually happens in these kind of moments. That's why Vegeta getting his ass kicked is always so beautiful, because it brings out the more interesting sides of him.

But I'll not get ahead of myself since I want to start with the side fights, which I absolutely loved.

Freeza and Dyspo have a good thing going for them. Surprisingly, they play off well of eachother. Still want Freeza vs Toppo more, but this is good. Loved how Dyspo took the guy for a ride then pummelled his face in that wall, Broly style in a bit of an out-of-universe/meta nod.

Toppo vs Gohan and 17 was surprisingly the highlight for me action-wise. For how little it lasted, Toppo's flips and the gorgeous smoke effects from the Kamehamaha captured my eyes the most. A nice interaction between Gohan and 17 too and another instance of Gohan putting that team leader position to use.

The bleachers thing was kinda dumb, especially since nothing worthile came of it. No one's taking sides, which I'd have liked to see. Sure, bae Vados and bae Marcarita talking finally was cool, but let's see some more.

Also, it has bugged me troughout the whole arc how Universe 7 never seemed in any real danger against anybody but Jiren, with even most eliminations looking pretty avoidable, but I must say the impact of having them so overwhelmed even with their superior numbers is much better felt this way. There really doesn't look like there's a real way to win other than to stay in and hope time runs out quickly, while there's still half of them.

The Jiren fight was amazing, not really due to the fighting, but due to how well everything blended together. We got a bit more insight into Jiren's motives, so it definetley looks like between his wish and his purpose, there is a reason why they're keeping him so mysterious beyond his overwhelming power. Sure he's bland, but it looks more and more like there might be some pay off to it. He geniunely could be the winner of this thing, no drop outs like Hit, no giving up by Goku. Straight up beating everybody. Hell, he seems to be keeping the Saiyan boys in the ring on purpose, to bring out more power from them.

Also, he's holding back. Vegeta notes he was faster and stronger vs Goku, so endless speculations for two weeks now are again proven to be worthless. Previews are misleading, guys! But I digress...

Really, what underwhelmed me the most this episode was the Final Flash. The moment itself was cool, with Vegeta feeling insulted at the core by Jiren's words and the aftermath of it with the amazing fake out, but what seemed to be the highlight of the episode... Just didn't look that great. The best part of it was Jiren standing, with the dust flowing past him. That I could hang up on a wall.

Another thing to point out is that this is probably the first Super episode which brought back something from Z that was missing for the past arcs: The build up, the long stare-downs. The opening scene, with the wind blowing, just set the stageso perfectly for what is the final battle. And, due to Super's quicker pacing, it doesn't feel drown out either.

So yeah, hell of a ride this episode. Lacking in memorability, but very well done on all fronts. A complete package.

Next episode is interesting. Really curious what Vegeta's new form is and excited not necessarily for that, as much as there are still these kind of surprises coming even this late in the game. Hopefully though it's not Ultra Instinct... Not that I mind Vegeta getting it, this arc even, but just because I think it looks too different and it feels a bit too easy. If it's something new, by all means. Having characters get unique forms was always something I wanted and never thought I'd see, but between Rage Trunks, Ultimate Gohan, UI Goku and Blue2 Vegeta, this is turning more and more into a possibility.
Also, some interesting fighting seems to take place. Jiren twisting Goku's arm... That's what excites me :lol:
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Re: Super Episode 122 (7 January 2018)

Post by dbzfan7 » Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:49 pm

OLKv3 wrote:This episode was pretty much Vegeta vs Perfect Cell, complete with Vegeta laughing thinking a Final Flash won. Very unoriginal
It's original because the anime did it and that's all that matters.

But no I jest. I just found the huge amount of hatred to homages to be overblown. Yes they can be annoying or pandering, but it's really not bad honestly. At least for me I am sometimes impressed, but mostly indifferent. I'd rather not have them at all...but eh as long as it's kept to a minimum. Though I think the U6 arc also had the same homage if I recall correctly...though less so than this one.
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Re: Super Episode 122 (7 January 2018)

Post by Doctor. » Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:52 pm

dbzfan7 wrote:
OLKv3 wrote:This episode was pretty much Vegeta vs Perfect Cell, complete with Vegeta laughing thinking a Final Flash won. Very unoriginal
It's original because the anime did it and that's all that matters.

But no I jest. I just found the huge amount of hatred to homages to be overblown. Yes they can be annoying or pandering, but it's really not bad honestly. At least for me I am sometimes impressed, but mostly indifferent. I'd rather not have them at all...but eh as long as it's kept to a minimum. Though I think the U6 arc also had the same homage if I recall correctly...though less so than this one.
Pointless homages are really bad. They're there for fanservice, and fanservice is usually just a cheap way to grab a viewer's attention. I have no problem with homages if they're used in a creative way or to showcase a character's growth. Like, say Cell fights Vegeta again for instance. One neat homage would be Vegeta elbowing Cell's back like Cell did it to him all the way back; the positions are switched so the parallel/homage would be justified. Now, something like this, what purpose does this serve? How does this tie-in with the Cell arc or the Cell fight in any way? It doesn't, so it's stupid, it's pointless, it's unoriginal and lacks in creativity.

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Re: Super Episode 122 (7 January 2018)

Post by AnAverageJoe1998 » Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:53 pm

Great episode that kicks off the final battle of this arc very nicely. Yuya Takahashi character art is still fantastic, a bit stronger than 114 I feel. The action was a ton of fun too.

NEP look interesting.

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Re: Super Episode 122 (7 January 2018)

Post by sintzu » Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:54 pm

Draconic wrote:Really curious what Vegeta's new form is.
Image

He's standing besides UI Goku and has the same aura so it's either similar to it in some ways or it's just him being on Goku's level of importance.

One thing's for sure, this and the next episode(s) will most likely be enough to kill the whole "Vegeta won't do much in this arc and will be replaced". Vegeta alongside Goku are the heart and soul of DB and no one is replacing either of them.

The ending on top of supporting that tells me that by the end of the tournament these 2 will be the strongest men standing, not Jiren.
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Re: Super Episode 122 (7 January 2018)

Post by Totamo » Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:01 pm

OLKv3 wrote:This episode was pretty much Vegeta vs Perfect Cell, complete with Vegeta laughing thinking a Final Flash won. Very unoriginal
The only homage here was the final scene, but the rest was nothing of the sort because unlike with perfect cell, vegeta actually did something.


Also aren't you the guy that defends the manga when it does this.

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Re: Super Episode 122 (7 January 2018)

Post by TheShadowEmperor8055 » Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:02 pm

Perhaps Vegeta's new form goes up against GoD Toppo, given the title of episode 125 is not to be misconstrued. Though I think this should finally kill any notion of Vegeta getting UI during this tournament, as it would be literally pointless to introduce this slight variation of SSB only for it to be thrown away by UI Vegeta minutes later.

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Re: Super Episode 122 (7 January 2018)

Post by sintzu » Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:05 pm

TheShadowEmperor8055 wrote:It would be literally pointless to introduce this slight variation of SSB only for it to be thrown away by UI Vegeta minutes later.
They did with with Red Goku before giving him UI. I do think they'll introduce it by having Vegeta using it for a split second to dodge an attack that otherwise would've knocked him out of the ring while we'll see it in full in the next arc.
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Re: Super Episode 122 (7 January 2018)

Post by TheShadowEmperor8055 » Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:09 pm

sintzu wrote:
TheShadowEmperor8055 wrote:It would be literally pointless to introduce this slight variation of SSB only for it to be thrown away by UI Vegeta minutes later.
They did with with Red Goku before giving him UI. I do think they'll introduce it by having Vegeta using it for a split second to dodge an attack that otherwise would've knocked him out of the ring while we'll see it in full in the next arc.
But SSG Goku wasn't introduced in this arc nor was it a new, never-before-seen form like Vegeta's, though. But could be wrong, I'm not totally leaving that out.

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Re: Super Episode 122 (7 January 2018)

Post by OLKv3 » Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:11 pm

Totamo wrote:
OLKv3 wrote:This episode was pretty much Vegeta vs Perfect Cell, complete with Vegeta laughing thinking a Final Flash won. Very unoriginal
The only homage here was the final scene, but the rest was nothing of the sort because unlike with perfect cell, vegeta actually did something.


Also aren't you the guy that defends the manga when it does this.
The structure of the fight was Vegeta vs Cell, the final flash, laugh, one shot was all done before
And what? Repeated choreography/panels/shots from DBZ is not the same as using a very obvious copy of a huge scene. I have no problem with the anime/manga using moves/poses from the original series. I do have a problem with reusing story beats. I complained about Goku and Vegeta treating Merged Zamasu like Boo in the manga but you don't remember that because it doesn't fit your obvious agenda

Basically the parts of the episode I liked were the new bits like the 2 side fights and Vegeta reading Jiren's moves. But the rest of it was a pretty obvious rehash/pandering

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Re: Super Episode 122 (7 January 2018)

Post by Professor Freeza » Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:13 pm

Has it been said that to get UI, your hair needs to be black and you need that white aura?

I believe that Vegeta will be able to mix UI and Blue to some extent.

UI's power increase for Goku is related to him getting his full potential out.
While Vegeta can get UI and still stay Blue.

Makes sense now.


PS: They just confirmed Jiren doesn't seek power.

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Re: Super Episode 122 (7 January 2018)

Post by sintzu » Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:15 pm

Professor Freeza wrote:Has it been said that to get UI, your hair needs to be black and you need that white aura?
I don't think so. If Vegeta is able to stay in Blue then I think it's because he doesn't have full access to it yet.
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Re: Super Episode 122 (7 January 2018)

Post by DHM211 » Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:18 pm

Super Saiyan Blue 2? lol
[spoiler]Image
Image
Image[/spoiler]

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Re: Super Episode 122 (7 January 2018)

Post by TheShadowEmperor8055 » Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:22 pm

DHM211 wrote:Super Saiyan Blue 2? lol
[spoiler]Image
Image
Image[/spoiler]
Oh, that is quite funny. Completely forgot how they drew SSB with SS2 hair in the episode :lol:

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Re: Super Episode 122 (7 January 2018)

Post by The gr » Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:26 pm

A great way to start the climax of the tournament, just wish the sky color change just to justify the atmosphere.
    We start off with some reaction shots and the benches merging,I hope we get more commentary from the other gods and angel,we only saw U7,11 and 6 talking.
      I wanted to see a tag battle like the Battle of Zamas instead we had the typical 1 vs 1 match.Still Vegeta vs Jiren was a great match, I loved the way Vegeta counteract Jiren,it was nice seeing Vegeta using his head for once.However I did not liked the blatant reference from the cell saga.
        The other great thing in this episode aside from the animation, is the other battles.
          Dyspo grabbing Frieza tail was the highlight of the episode,it was so hilarious.
            Toppo vs #17 and Gohan was also good,it was short but sweet,I really adore the animation, teamwork and dialogue in that segment.
              Overall a good episode, great way to start the climax.I know a lot of people didn't liked how Vegeta is still in the Ring,I for one liked this because there trying something new right here.
              Last edited by The gr on Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:37 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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              Re: Super Episode 122 (7 January 2018)

              Post by CriticalThinker » Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:27 pm

              Man gotta say that I really liked this episode and the fight between Jiren and Vegeta was pretty good. Though the highlight for me was definitely the fight between Freeza and Dyspo and Toppo vs Gohan and 17. Sure Freeza wasn't Golden but seeing him getting whooped by Dyspo was great none the less, also Toppo was pretty cool and did something this episode as well.

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              Re: Super Episode 122 (7 January 2018)

              Post by DHM211 » Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:27 pm

              HD screenshot of Goku and Vegeta from the ending.
              Image

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              Re: Super Episode 122 (7 January 2018)

              Post by MajinMan » Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:31 pm

              I think it's finally my turn to be the one with the extremely unpopular opinion. I... did not really like this episode. It wasn't bad by any means, but it certainly did not live up to my expectations.

              The art and animation was glorious, but only for the second half. The first half started good with tension building, but once Goku and Jiren started to clash it just looked really bad. Goku's hair in particular was so awful (first half), like what the hell went wrong? Vegeta randomly observing Jiren and countering him was barely believable.

              The second half was much better. I liked it for the most part, but something just didn't feel right. I guess I really am a Vegeta hater at heart after all because I could not get into the hype moments as much as most other people seemed to. I blame Vegeta's garbage characterization for the majority of this arc for making me enjoy this episode less than I probably would have.

              One thing I really enjoyed though was hearing Jiren talk more. It's about damn time he dropped the mute act. I also enjoyed Gohan/17 vs Toppo and Freeza vs Dyspo a lot.
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              Re: Super Episode 122 (7 January 2018)

              Post by Professor Freeza » Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:33 pm

              sintzu wrote:
              Professor Freeza wrote:Has it been said that to get UI, your hair needs to be black and you need that white aura?
              I don't think so. If Vegeta is able to stay in Blue then I think it's because he doesn't have full access to it yet.

              The UI itself is a technique. Not the form itself. So he can just get the technique without the power up Goku got

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              Re: Super Episode 122 (7 January 2018)

              Post by BWri » Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:42 pm

              Episode 122 - Please love us Vegeta fans! Vegeta looked cool and all but outside of the spectactular art, this was a throwaway episode. The only part of the fight between him and Jiren that felt organic was him using what he'd observed to dodge Jiren's attacks. I thought that was cool and smart, but then the show came to a stop to have all the characters verbally wank him to sell his power which fell flat at the end of the day because Jiren was holding back anyway. What the hell am I supposed to take away from that? And I don't think the way he broke his limits was executed right. So getting your butt whooped isn't enough to hurt your pride, but hearing someone say the rational conclusion of said butt whooping is? And where was this pride powerup when he fought Frieza, Cell, Recoome, or low class Saiyan Saga Goku? Not buying it, no matter all the side character verbal power wankage in the world.

              But yeah, logic aside, seeing the Final Flash was awesome and I liked the glimpses of the other fights. I knew Dyspo wasn't a pushover.

              *edit: I just remembered that I did love the return of monologuing Vegeta though. I feel like we haven't seen that proper since the Buu arc. But we did get that awesome scene when he destroyed SSR Goku Black
              Last edited by BWri on Sat Jan 06, 2018 11:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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