Super Episode 122 (7 January 2018)

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Re: Super Episode 122 (7 January 2018)

Post by buutenks » Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:04 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:Damn good episode. Visually stunning, good character moments and great battles throughout.

I found it hilarious how the exempted Universe's Kaioshin and Hakaishin, as well as the remaining fighter in the tournament and the Kaioshin and Kaioshin from Universe 7 and 11 acted so awkwardly when then made to sit with close proximity of one another.

I'm so happy Vados is making herself at home with Universe 7.

I liked how Anat (Kaioshin of Universe 1), made mention of how the two remaining universe didn't make it this far just because of how strong they were, but also to into consideration other factors needed to do to survive this long. That point would have been a very good one to make... if not for the fact that Universe 7 were stronger than 80% of the other fighters in the tournament and have eliminated every other universe so far using strength and some teamwork.

Freeza underestimating Dyspo and getting clobbered by him was just wonderful. It's nice to see Freeza taken down a peg. He needs a challenge. But what made their ecouncter so much fun was this exchange:

Dyspo - Sorry, but I'm the fastest in all the universe.
Freeza - So, you're specialty is running away.
Dyspo - I see you're looking to die again.

Okay, now I'm certain you can only be a Pride Trooper if you're good at throwing shades.

Getting a insight into what Jiren is looking for in this tournament was quite good. He looking for something beyond strength certain give the idea that Jiren is self aware of how ludicrously powerful he is and searching for a meaning, or perhaps a purpose, beyond who has the biggest stick to through. Plus, his mention of how there was no purity in the self righteous way that Vegeta's fight, drives home that Jiren does have some heroic standards to him. Or at least places himself on much higher moral ground. I mentioned in another thread that the anime may be going for the slow burn narrative technique when it comes to Jiren development and characterisation, and it looks like that may be case.

The best thing about this episode was Vegeta's speech before hit Jiren with the Final Flash. I loved everything about it. Vegeta is very much self aware that he is indeed arrogant, but from his perspective, that's precisely what the pride of a Saiyan is. And he's not going to throw away who he is. A prideful Saiyan. Even with all the development he's gone through, who he is at his core will never go away or change. Vegeta even remakes that he'll find his own of defeating Jiren and that he doesn't need Ultra Instinct to do it. Which just further highlights Vegeta's extremely dogged, brazen and resilient attitude and also shows great character growth as he feel he doesn't need to have everything that Goku. It's one of those character drive moments in self awareness that you don't much from characters in Dragon Ball, so it was nice to see it. It also served as good lampshade hanging for why Vegeta has been acting the way he has been in this arc.

Great artwork as a whole in episode, too.

I think when Jiren said beyond strength, he meant he wants to obtain something that strength alone cannot.

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Re: Super Episode 122 (7 January 2018)

Post by Kaio_Krazy » Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:10 pm

Huh well what do you know, Vegeta didn't get eliminated this episode, and he's getting a new power up that isn't Migatte no Instinct...Ultra Gokui...you know what I mean. Alright I'm game, let's see where this goes.

Of course, it goes without saying Takahashi's art was absolutely delicious, and I hope we get more in the future.

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Re: Super Episode 122 (7 January 2018)

Post by dbgtFO » Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:18 pm

Funny seeing Vegeta mimic Beerus' movements from when he fought Buu back then and now it's Beerus, who looks intrigued at Vegeta's moves. Nice callback.
The episode was good, especially art and animation wise. It was very nice to have the finale start with U11 fighters getting to toy with their opponents. Now it just builds more tension for how they are going to defeat them, especially Gohan and #17 versus Toppo. He already looks way beyond them.
Jiren being more of a mystery, once again not immediately throwing out his opponents, even though he had ample opportunity to do so and was holding back massively to boot.
The guy is just looking to get pushed to his absolute limits isn't he?
And now that Vegeta is going to get another power-up, what was the point of him getting another one in this episode too? Seems excessive and would be considerate to just have that be the power of him drawing out everything for the Final Flash, instead of just getting a new power boost, when he's going to get one in the next episode anyways. :roll:

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Re: Super Episode 122 (7 January 2018)

Post by Melab » Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:30 pm

Freeza9000 wrote:
Melab wrote:How can Dyspo call himself the fastest warrior in all of the universes when Jiren is his teammate?
Kinda like how Burter can pride himself the fastest in the universe despite being aware of Freeza’s existence.
Or maybe like how the Grand Priest is said to be the strongest fighter despite Zen-Oh.
Last edited by Melab on Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Super Episode 122 (7 January 2018)

Post by Melab » Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:32 pm

Did anyone else notice that Vegeta's eyes/pupils turned silver when he was staring at Jiren's punches?

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Re: Super Episode 122 (7 January 2018)

Post by Miracles » Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:39 pm

OLKv3 wrote:
Miracles wrote:
OLKv3 wrote:The structure of the fight was Vegeta vs Cell, the final flash, laugh, one shot was all done before
And what? Repeated choreography/panels/shots from DBZ is not the same as using a very obvious copy of a huge scene. I have no problem with the anime/manga using moves/poses from the original series. I do have a problem with reusing story beats. I complained about Goku and Vegeta treating Merged Zamasu like Boo in the manga but you don't remember that because it doesn't fit your obvious agenda

Basically the parts of the episode I liked were the new bits like the 2 side fights and Vegeta reading Jiren's moves. But the rest of it was a pretty obvious rehash/pandering
What's you're take on Vegeta's statement about Jiren being stronger when he faced Goku?
I liked it. Vegeta talking trash got him into mad trouble because Jiren gave him them real hands. It also explained why Goku wasn't immediately wrecked during their first scuffle
Same sentiments.
Last edited by Miracles on Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Super Episode 122 (7 January 2018)

Post by Asura » Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:45 pm

Melab wrote:
Freeza9000 wrote:
Melab wrote:How can Dyspo call himself the fastest warrior in all of the universes when Jiren is his teammate?
Kinda like how Burter can pride himself the fastest in the universe despite being aware of Freeza’s existence.
Or maybe like how the Grand Priest is said to be the strongest fighter despite Zen-Oh.
Zeno isn’t a fighter.

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Re: Super Episode 122 (7 January 2018)

Post by Nero<>Akira » Sun Jan 07, 2018 3:57 pm

Great episode.
Zamasu is the best DB villain besides Freeza (and this is only the case because the current Super arc elevated Freeza to be that good).

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Re: Super Episode 122 (7 January 2018)

Post by Asura » Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:27 pm

For some reason the thing that got me most excited this episode was Gohan & 17 vs Toppo. It's strange to me to see Gohan & 17 teaming up since they've never even talked once to each other, and I'm curious to see the synergy between them and how they plan to beat Toppo, because right now it looks like they're going to get absolutely destroyed.

Perhaps a hint that Gohan will need a new transformation in order to beat Toppo? Although with Vegeta apparently about to get one too, having three unique new transformations in one arc seems rather absurd.
Last edited by Asura on Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Super Episode 122 (7 January 2018)

Post by Gig » Sun Jan 07, 2018 4:28 pm

Am I the only one wondering why there is wind in the world of void?

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Re: Super Episode 122 (7 January 2018)

Post by t0ffe3m4n » Sun Jan 07, 2018 5:02 pm

Didn't deliver on the preview hype, but some of the art was top tier stuff and should feature far more regularly in the show in general.

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Re: Super Episode 122 (7 January 2018)

Post by supersaiyanZero » Sun Jan 07, 2018 6:11 pm

What an underwhelming episode. I was actually hyped for this one too.

These cutaways every time something happens are a JOKE. Literally there is 10 seconds of combat and for some reason we have to cut away to Piccolo or Zeno or Whis or whoever the fuck to tell us exactly what we just saw. It kills the pace and I'm not sure if they are padding or just trying to cater to the younger demographic by explaining everything to them from A-Z (yet somehow all the important things never get explained..). The show literally treats its viewers like brain dead idiots.

Some of the art was really nice, but its so jarring to see two different styles of character designs and artwork in an episode. It's almost like watching two shows! The fight itself was pretty underwhelming, and to be honest Frieza Vs Dyspo was the most entertaining to watch. I don't care WHO's animating the "ATATATATA", even if it IS Takahashi, but if your whole battle revolves around watching character A throw a bunch of punches to character B who just stands there, it's going to be boring.

I also don't understand how a panel here or there in the manga that references the original manga causes SUCH a shit stir, but Super has literally reused the SAME plot points from Z over and over again and people are ok with calling these "homages". Vegeta challenging Jiren with his Final Flash doesn't scream "throwback", it screams "Let me pander to the audience because they loved this in Z so let's give them what we THINK they want by doing the same. exact. fucking. thing."

Jiren is one of the most boring characters in existence. Zero anything. They don't even play his arrogance up yet give him lines that are supposed to steer him in that direction. The nonsense exchange with Goku vs Jiren about "why do you want to get stronger" is about as 1 dimensional garbage as you can get.

On the PLUS side - this is the FIRST episode where it at least sort of felt like there were multiple opponents engaging each other in battle. It was probably the best episode of the ToP arc by far, HOWEVER, it's a GREAT example of why this show is so frustratingly mediocre. It shows you glimpses of promise that YES, this CAN be a good show, it CAN provide some amount of dramatic tension in a scene, but right now it's marred by being a completely incohesive mess and really, really bad writing.

Oh, and Vegeta deserved better than that. I don't mind him losing that much to Jiren but I wish he put up a better, more interesting fight.

p.s - my god did Ultimate Gohan look beautiful. It just shows you how bad they fucked up the character designs coming into this series.

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Re: Super Episode 122 (7 January 2018)

Post by Asura » Sun Jan 07, 2018 6:15 pm

supersaiyanZero wrote:p.s - my god did Ultimate Gohan look beautiful. It just shows you how bad they fucked up the character designs coming into this series.
Image

Takahashi is truly a god among men. I also agree with the vast majority of the things said in your post.

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Re: Super Episode 122 (7 January 2018)

Post by precita » Sun Jan 07, 2018 6:33 pm

I really do hope Gohan and 17 take out Toppo, or at least Gohan. Gohan really needs one big win in the series, I sure as hell hope him taking out the two Nameks wasn't it. 17 already got the final hit on the U3 robot.

I mean has Gohan really done anything but take out weaker enemies throughout this whole tournament? Most of the time we didn't even see Gohan because Goku/Vegeta get all the focus. Now that we're literally at the last fighters if Gohan doesn't get some kind of big victory, and Toppo is the only option since Jiren/Dyspo aren't for him, there's nothing else.

If Gohan goes down without doing anything special, so much for that hype.

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Re: Super Episode 122 (7 January 2018)

Post by PsionicWarrior » Sun Jan 07, 2018 6:34 pm

I really enjoyed that episode. Sure, writing was not that good, but at least there was a great ambiance with great fights and great art. Vegeta rocked.

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Re: Super Episode 122 (7 January 2018)

Post by Kataphrut » Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:25 pm

Anyone else get Broly vibes from Dyspo smashing Freeza's face against the cliff?

Fun fact: Broly and Dyspo share the same voice actor, Bin Shimada
Fun fact 2: Broly's English voice actor, Vic Migogna, also played Burter in Dragon Ball Z Kai.

Now he has to play Dypso in the dub. It'd be a double homage.

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Re: Super Episode 122 (7 January 2018)

Post by Kagari » Sun Jan 07, 2018 7:37 pm

precita wrote:I really do hope Gohan and 17 take out Toppo, or at least Gohan. Gohan really needs one big win in the series, I sure as hell hope him taking out the two Nameks wasn't it. 17 already got the final hit on the U3 robot.

I mean has Gohan really done anything but take out weaker enemies throughout this whole tournament? Most of the time we didn't even see Gohan because Goku/Vegeta get all the focus. Now that we're literally at the last fighters if Gohan doesn't get some kind of big victory, and Toppo is the only option since Jiren/Dyspo aren't for him, there's nothing else.

If Gohan goes down without doing anything special, so much for that hype.
You keep saying this but it's not even remotely true. And Vegeta hasn't taken out anyone "big" either, he's eliminated a bunch of one-off characters we'll probably never see again.

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Re: Super Episode 122 (7 January 2018)

Post by Artorias » Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:30 pm

Asura wrote:Although with Vegeta apparently about to get one too, having three unique new transformations in one arc seems rather absurd.
Especially considering the fact that it would be three transformations over the course of 48 minutes. That would be utterly ridiculous.

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Re: Super Episode 122 (7 January 2018)

Post by BWri » Sun Jan 07, 2018 11:59 pm

Artorias wrote:
Asura wrote:Although with Vegeta apparently about to get one too, having three unique new transformations in one arc seems rather absurd.
Especially considering the fact that it would be three transformations over the course of 48 minutes. That would be utterly ridiculous.
It gets really crazy when you realize that every Saiyan in the tournament will have unlocked a new form if Gohan does.
Big fan of the characters of Dragon Ball, all of them, especially formerly prominent sub-characters. -__-

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Re: Super Episode 122 (7 January 2018)

Post by Asura » Mon Jan 08, 2018 12:49 am

BWri wrote:
Artorias wrote:
Asura wrote:Although with Vegeta apparently about to get one too, having three unique new transformations in one arc seems rather absurd.
Especially considering the fact that it would be three transformations over the course of 48 minutes. That would be utterly ridiculous.
It gets really crazy when you realize that every Saiyan in the tournament will have unlocked a new form if Gohan does.
Now that you mention it, every single Saiyan in this arc has gotten a new transformation except Gohan, huh?

Damn, Gohan fans shafted again :lol:

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