Super Episode 122 (7 January 2018)

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Re: Super Episode 122 (7 January 2018)

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Mon Jan 08, 2018 1:13 am

Comments on this episode:

- Everyone seems to praise this guy's animation but IMO it's not that great, the inks are too heavy for one thing
- I know it's supposed to be dramatic, but Toppo's mustache flapping around like that just looks silly
- So it takes him 48 hours to create the arena but he can change the bleachers that quickly? I guess maybe it's easier to manipulate the stuff he's already created rather than creating new material from scratch
- Actually, the two universes still left did survive because they were strong. Universe 11 hardly even has any eliminations so far. If they were really doing what was necessary to survive, they would have adopted much more aggressive tactics.
- Dyspo looks maniacal here
- I'm assuming Roshi means the strongest mortals, but he still doesn't know if there might be anyone stronger from the excluded universes (I like to believe that there is)
- My interpretation of Jiren so far is that he is sort of like Goku, in that he values a good fight over the fate of his universe, which is why he didn't eliminate so many people when he had the chance to. He wants Goku and Vegeta to get stronger and give him a better fight.
- I'm guessing that's an empty boast by Dyspo. Even if he's not including the Angels who should all be faster than him, Jiren is faster than him, isn't he? He's basically Burter 2.0 here.
- I'm rather unsure what Vegeta means by saying Jiren's ki is 'heavy'.
- The fighting here is pretty good though
- So I guess it might be fair to say here that Vegeta achieved a very limited form of Ultra Instinct, less than the Omen form but still something, right?
- So Jiren is just toying with Vegeta and holding back now? That does fit my theory that he's trying to draw out more power from him
- I don't really understand how Dyspo can be slowly moving his hand toward Freeza's back while simultaneously creating afterimages all around him
- The sub translated Belmod's line here as "Compared to your warriors, our power's on a whole different level!" but I clearly heard him say "Jiren", so was he just talking about Jiren or his whole team?
- Jiren should have seen Vegeta when he was fighting Buu - he was more pure and less self-righteous then
- You know, I don't recall this Final Flash desperation move ever actually working since back when he tried it on Cell
- It also looks like Dyspo had the opportunity to knock Freeza out right then but didn't take it. He's going to regret that when he transforms.
- Now the animation of this attack is cool, but Vegeta's face looks weird
- That's the exact same explosion effect as when Jiren blocked Ultra Instinct Goku's punch. I had thought that was from the impact of Goku's punch but I guess it's something specific to Jiren's power/techniques instead
- I wouldn't say it didn't work at all, it did knock him down (unless he was faking that too)
- New ending. Since it has the ToP arena in it, does that mean the arc is going to continue for a lot longer?
- So what, Vegeta is getting another new form different from Goku? I really don't like how they keep introducing random new forms like this and SSJ Rage. I mean, if you want them to get new forms/powers, why not stick to the ones already established?

Fairly good episode but not great IMO.
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Re: Super Episode 122 (7 January 2018)

Post by Zillamon51 » Mon Jan 08, 2018 3:50 am

Good episode. Great-looking art. Some have complained about the re-use of music from the Black arc, but I'm glad it's stuck around.

I really liked the Cell / Final Flash callback. And I'm looking forward to Frieza having to get serious. Has anyone in-universe ever commented on Dyspo's resemblance to Beerus? Frieza could be the first, saying something like, "This is good practice," as a bit of foreshadowing.

Speaking of Frieza and foreshadowing: Jiren's remark that he seeks what's beyond strength, could come back if Frieza gets the Super DBs, and wishes to become "the most powerful being in existence," or something. The others will have to go beyond simple strength to bring him down.
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Re: Super Episode 122 (7 January 2018)

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:34 am

Zillamon51 wrote:I really liked the Cell / Final Flash callback. And I'm looking forward to Frieza having to get serious. Has anyone in-universe ever commented on Dyspo's resemblance to Beerus? Frieza could be the first, saying something like, "This is good practice," as a bit of foreshadowing.
Champa, Vados, and Beerus commented on it in one episode.
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Re: Super Episode 122 (7 January 2018)

Post by Roronoa-pt » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:34 am

I don't know if you recall but this episode pretty much replicated the fight between Super Vegeta & Perfect Cell.

Super Vegeta provoked Cell that he wouldn't be able to tank his final flash - SSJB Vegeta did the same thing with Jiren, even used the same KI attack.
Cell lost his arm and half of his body due to the Final Flash - Jiren fell
Super Vegeta laughed seeing how Cell lost his arm - SSJB Vegeta laugh when he saw Jiren on the ground
Super Vegeta was stomped by Cell soon after - SSJB Vegeta was stomped by Jiren's attack

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Re: Super Episode 122 (7 January 2018)

Post by buutenks » Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:05 am

I think i can safely say, the highlight of this episode was the next episode preview lol.

Tho i am a bit disappointed that they showed all the hits Vegeta lands on Jiren(including FF) in the ep preview for 122. Apart from the Freeza and Dyspo thing, u basically saw the whole ep with the preview. And i suspect, that apart from some small things here and there we also saw the whole bulk of the next episode in the 123 ep preview.

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Re: Super Episode 122 (7 January 2018)

Post by Noah » Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:33 am

Honestly I'm quite tired of this all Goku & Vegeta spotlight, so I hope Gohan gets fast a new transformation out of nowhere that could make him the strongest of Universe 7 once again.

Kataphrut wrote:Anyone else get Broly vibes from Dyspo smashing Freeza's face against the cliff? Fun fact: Broly and Dyspo share the same voice actor, Bin Shimada
Yea, I had too as I said:
It was very satisfying that Dyspo gave Freeza the 'Broly treatment' :D
Also interesting info there, I would never imagine Shimada the same one who voiced Broly was also Dyspo VA
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Re: Super Episode 122 (7 January 2018)

Post by Nero<>Akira » Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:38 pm

Goku and Vegeta are the main characters. every other character is secondary and has gotten plenty of screen time.
Zamasu is the best DB villain besides Freeza (and this is only the case because the current Super arc elevated Freeza to be that good).

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Re: Super Episode 122 (7 January 2018)

Post by BWri » Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:03 pm

Polyphase Avatron wrote:- I'm guessing that's an empty boast by Dyspo. Even if he's not including the Angels who should all be faster than him, Jiren is faster than him, isn't he? He's basically Burter 2.0 here.
There's a small chance that he might be faster than Jiren, though I wouldn't bank on it, but with his special ability it appears he can have bursts of speed up to 1000x his base speed. At the moment, his base speed is impressive as well so those 1000x bursts of speed should be really good. It was enough to give a time manipulator like hit some trouble anyway. And if he breaks past his limits like so many others in this tournament, he could definitely be the fastest in the universe.
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Re: Super Episode 122 (7 January 2018)

Post by shomangaka » Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:38 pm

They need to tone down the callbacks. It's no longer entertaining and it cheapens important moments.

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Re: Super Episode 122 (7 January 2018)

Post by PsionicWarrior » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:40 pm

Ok time to write a tad more about lol

Jiren finally starts getting a personality, 'I fight to see what's beyond power' while battling Goku, or, 'your fists are arrogant' while battling Vegeta, yes that was interesting, I'm happy with that. I hope we get to see more of this, he's no longer monolithic and that's a great point.

Goku got Ultra Instinct, did Vegeta got Ultra Pride? :mrgreen: I liked that too, I like it that Vegeta is not taking the same path as Goku, it's interesting and actually made perfect sense with the callback, as we saw the Vegeta of the great times there. Yes.
I'm pretty sure they won't do it but I would like Vegeta's new form to impact me as much as Goku's UI did.

Freeza's punchline against Dyspo was great and I can't wait to see Freeza beat up Dyspo because that's what's going to happen lol

So was this episode overhyped? Yes. Was it the best of Super? No. Was it the best Vegeta episode since the start of the arc? Yes. Was it a very good episode? Yes.

It announces for something greater, we entered the finale now, and Dragon Ball finales MUST be epic, so PLEASE DBS make it epic, don't screw this up, this is your last chance to save the TOP, you can do it, please lol

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Re: Super Episode 122 (7 January 2018)

Post by Kagari » Mon Jan 08, 2018 8:55 pm

Nero<>Akira wrote:Goku and Vegeta are the main characters. every other character is secondary and has gotten plenty of screen time.
Vegeta has been sidelined all year though.

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Re: Super Episode 122 (7 January 2018)

Post by Asura » Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:21 pm

PsionicWarrior wrote:this is your last chance to save the TOP, you can do it, please lol
Why would this arc need saving? It's brought in more people to the franchise than ever before, and has the most consistent and most quality art in all of Super, with some episodes and moments even surpassing Z in quality. That's not to say it's perfect since the arc obviously has a lot of issues, but none that causes the entire arc to be shit that needs to be saved by its ending.

If there were any doubts about this arc in the past, the 109/110 special has already "saved" it. If you still think the arc needs to be "saved" by its finale, then you're probably going to be disappointed no matter what.

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Re: Super Episode 122 (7 January 2018)

Post by PsionicWarrior » Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:39 am

Asura wrote:If there were any doubts about this arc in the past, the 109/110 special has already "saved" it.
Ok this is true and there is a few other episodes like the Roshi ones or the Gohan one that made it 100% worth it to watch not disagreeing here. BUT the problem of this arc, which is IMO the recurrent problem in Super in general, is that sometimes they give you something awesome, then you get 10 episodes of crap in a row. Then one good, then 10 crap. Not even exaggerating. If they screw it up, it wouldn't be the first time they foreshadow something supposedly great to come and don't deliver in the end. I won't end up disappointed because I'm prepared for the worst lol
Asura wrote:moments even surpassing Z in quality.
That is your opinion, in mine at the very best it almost matches it, and it's a very very few amount of episodes doing that cheers lol

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Re: Super Episode 122 (7 January 2018)

Post by precita » Tue Jan 09, 2018 1:11 pm

We don't get 10 eps of crap though. We sometimes get 1-2 disappointing episodes and then 1-2 average episodes, and then great episodes.

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Re: Super Episode 122 (7 January 2018)

Post by PsionicWarrior » Tue Jan 09, 2018 5:45 pm

precita wrote:We don't get 10 eps of crap though. We sometimes get 1-2 disappointing episodes and then 1-2 average episodes, and then great episodes.
Well, aren't you disappointed when after a great episode you get an average one lol
I might have been rough with the term 'crap', sometimes things that still haunt me summon again lol (arg Kale arg Kaulifla arg what was his name again random antagonist who got a full ep of screentime and that we likely will never see in the series ever again to disappear in the depths of the void arg etc lol)
Sorry if I sound rude a bit, it's just that since we had 1 great episode now I fear we'll get the average ones again if not next week the one after that one so I really want them to deliver 10 great ones in a row right now lol

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Re: Super Episode 122 (7 January 2018)

Post by Asura » Tue Jan 09, 2018 10:14 pm

PsionicWarrior wrote:
precita wrote:We don't get 10 eps of crap though. We sometimes get 1-2 disappointing episodes and then 1-2 average episodes, and then great episodes.
Well, aren't you disappointed when after a great episode you get an average one lol
I know that question was directed at precita but y'know, I'm just used to the disappointment by now lol. I know what to expect when I'm watching this show. Super has always operated this way, but I would say it's better now than it's ever been. I think that's the only way to enjoy Super too, realizing that it has a lot of faults and there will be a lot of disappointing episodes. Thankfully when an episode is disappointing now, it just means it's mediocre. Super has upped it's quality so much that when we're disappointed, it's because we're disappointed by the mediocrity. If this was the U6 arc, those mediocre episodes would be praised as great episodes.

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Re: Super Episode 122 (7 January 2018)

Post by PsionicWarrior » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:20 am

Asura wrote:...
Well personnally as a whole the Ftrunks arc is still better, but TOP ain't over yet and if they make an epic finale maybe I will change my mind. I agree that the quality of the show has gone up with time, I did enjoy U6 arc.

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Re: Super Episode 122 (7 January 2018)

Post by Eternal Super Saiyan » Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:53 pm

TheUltimateNinja wrote:Seems this episode was overhyped after all, nothing happened.
Quite the opposite of nothing happened. :P

I thought this was a very good episode. Not sure exactly how Vegeta was able to stand up to Jiren without some sort of boost in power, but it was entertaining.
Animation was just about top notch for Super, and pacing was good. Looking forward to the next episode, optimistically.
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Re: Super Episode 122 (7 January 2018)

Post by Artorias » Wed Jan 10, 2018 8:23 pm

Not really understanding some of the praise this episode got for the Jiren dialogue with Goku and Vegeta. That was all just a bunch of vapid nonsense to me. I got nothing meaningful out of any of those conversations.
Polyphase Avatron wrote:Comments on this episode:

- Everyone seems to praise this guy's animation but IMO it's not that great, the inks are too heavy for one thing
My guy, you're allowed to have an opinion obviously, but that's just...well...you're gonna cause the animation community to have a spasm with that one. I think this is undoubtedly the best artwork this show has ever seen, not even close. I don't really understand what you would even want out of Dragon Ball artwork if this didn't do it for you. The franchise is probably never going to look this good again if this guy ever leaves.
Noah wrote:Honestly I'm quite tired of this all Goku & Vegeta spotlight, so I hope Gohan gets fast a new transformation out of nowhere that could make him the strongest of Universe 7 once again.
C'mon now, just because we're tired of a certain character doesn't mean we should all of the sudden be in favor of contrived shitty writing. A much better and more sensical way for Gohan to close the gap would be for him to train with Whis after the tournament.
Asura wrote:
PsionicWarrior wrote:this is your last chance to save the TOP, you can do it, please lol
Why would this arc need saving? It's brought in more people to the franchise than ever before, and has the most consistent and most quality art in all of Super, with some episodes and moments even surpassing Z in quality. That's not to say it's perfect since the arc obviously has a lot of issues, but none that causes the entire arc to be shit that needs to be saved by its ending.

If there were any doubts about this arc in the past, the 109/110 special has already "saved" it. If you still think the arc needs to be "saved" by its finale, then you're probably going to be disappointed no matter what.
The ending is WAY more likely to completely ruin this arc than "save" it in my estimation. There are very few ways I can imagine them ending it well, and dozens of ways they can screw it all up.
Eternal Super Saiyan wrote:
TheUltimateNinja wrote:Seems this episode was overhyped after all, nothing happened.
Quite the opposite of nothing happened. :P
Ok, then what happened? Really, honestly, how did the plot advance in this episode? What relevant event occurred to push the narrative forward?

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Re: Super Episode 122 (7 January 2018)

Post by Eternal Super Saiyan » Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:59 pm

Artorias wrote:Not really understanding some of the praise this episode got for the Jiren dialogue with Goku and Vegeta. That was all just a bunch of vapid nonsense to me. I got nothing meaningful out of any of those conversations.
Eternal Super Saiyan wrote:
TheUltimateNinja wrote:Seems this episode was overhyped after all, nothing happened.
Quite the opposite of nothing happened. :P
Ok, then what happened? Really, honestly, how did the plot advance in this episode? What relevant event occurred to push the narrative forward?
How much do you expect to be squeezed in over this next several minutes of the ToP? I feel like our standards for the series is all over the place on this forum, honestly.
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