Super Episode 123 (14 January 2018)

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Bullza
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Re: Super Episode 123 (14 January 2018)

Post by Bullza » Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:12 pm

Kaiosama wrote:Vegeta's new form is such a cringey unforgivable asspull. Far worse than Super Saiyan Ikari Trunks. At least we know that his new form is weaker than UI and Goku is still the superior warrior.
Most forms are asspulls in this series. It's not even a new form. It's just the same form with a vast amount more power that it's broke his limits.

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Re: Super Episode 123 (14 January 2018)

Post by Kaiosama » Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:14 pm

Bullza wrote:
Kaiosama wrote:Vegeta's new form is such a cringey unforgivable asspull. Far worse than Super Saiyan Ikari Trunks. At least we know that his new form is weaker than UI and Goku is still the superior warrior.
Most forms are asspulls in this series. It's not even a new form. It's just the same form with a vast amount more power that it's broke his limits.
Still far inferior to UI Goku.

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Re: Super Episode 123 (14 January 2018)

Post by Artorias » Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:15 pm

Kaiosama wrote:
Bullza wrote:
Kaiosama wrote:Vegeta's new form is such a cringey unforgivable asspull. Far worse than Super Saiyan Ikari Trunks. At least we know that his new form is weaker than UI and Goku is still the superior warrior.
Most forms are asspulls in this series. It's not even a new form. It's just the same form with a vast amount more power that it's broke his limits.
Still far inferior to UI Goku.
Why is this relevant? We're here to discuss the episode, not fanboy over FICTIONAL characters. They aren't real, so stop acting like they are. Who cares if UI Goku is or is not superior? That's irrelevant. It's not a sport.

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Re: Super Episode 123 (14 January 2018)

Post by nato25 » Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:17 pm

Worse than Trunks? I can't agree with that. Trunks just got more mad like he's done many times before. While it probably wasn't handled the best way, I don't mind Vegeta's push to break through his shell being desperation, determination and his need to keep a promise to a fellow saiyan. I think that's enough for me. He gave it his all last episode and that wasn't enough, he had to improve to fulfill his wish.

And at least Vegeta's form is some variation on an established transformation. I'm still trying to work out wtf Trunks gained. At least in my mind this episode gave me the confirmation that that was Trunks breaking through his shell and that's his own form like this 'Super SSB' and Ultra Instinct.

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Re: Super Episode 123 (14 January 2018)

Post by Torturephile » Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:22 pm

-While the art and animation of this episode was a step down from episode 122, it wasn't as bad as the step down from episode 114 to 115.

-Since Gohan lost Piccolo back in episode 119, now he wants to hang around 17 because he still needs a green shield and a nanny. So much for a team leader.

-I'm glad the two Zenos actually had a proper conversation for once during this tournament without one repeating what the other said. That schtick got old a while ago.

-Tenshinhan still manages to look bad in my eyes by being one-upped by both Krillin and Master Roshi in terms of spectator commentary as they seem to get the idea of what's going on more than he does, as if it wasn't enough being one-upped by them during battle already.

-I hope Vegeta's super saiyan bluer doesn't turn out to be another super saiyan rage just for the sake of being a convenient powerup so he can keep up and gets explained better. It probably won't, it's a bloodline thing it seems.

-Am I still the only one that still wants Belmod and Khai have their teeth kicked in?

This episode felt longer than usual. Anyways, I'm looking forward for some more Golden Freeza action.

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Re: Super Episode 123 (14 January 2018)

Post by CriticalThinker » Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:23 pm

While the art and animation was worse than last weeks episode I definitely enjoyed this episode more. Liked seeing Goku's strategy against Jiren even if it did nothing to him in the end. Also liked the bit with 17 and Gohan vs Toppo and also I guess so much for Gohan hesitating. Vegeta's transformation was meh to me but I do like that he's getting something new.

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Re: Super Episode 123 (14 January 2018)

Post by fadeddreams5 » Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:28 pm

The outro made me think Vegeta's new form would be equal to Ultra Instinct, not SSJB+KK. Lame. They're both gonna be beaten.

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Re: Super Episode 123 (14 January 2018)

Post by Kataphrut » Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:31 pm

I'm not a fan of the idea of Vegeta getting a new form, but I'm a sucker for spectacle and this had it in spades. The promise to Cabba...fair enough, i guess we still have to pretend that relationship was well developed and interesting. But if the end result is two SSBKK level fighters in a cool team-up set to the orchestral Limit Break x Survivor piece and Ultimate Battle? Yeah...yeah, I'll take it.

That said, even before Vegeta got involved, the fight between Goku and Jiren was awesome. I love the cutaways to the Toppo and Dyspo fights (which are honestly more compelling than the Jiren fight at this point). I also love Goku's various strategies and gambits trying to beat Jiren, they felt genuinely creative. Like, that trap with Kienzan? I was legit blown away by that. Dragon Ball often pays lip service to the idea of Goku being a fighting genius, this flat out showed us. It was also a nice callback to his fight with Krillin on the roof. Sucks Krillin himself never got a chance to use that attack in the tournament, but oh well.

Good episode, fun action. The weaker art and animation (relative to Takahashi I mean; art and animation were fine) were bolstered by strong storyboarding and direction. Only issues are the context of Vegeta's new form and Jiren being overpowered, which are bigger picture issues and don't take away from the simple fun of the ep.

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Re: Super Episode 123 (14 January 2018)

Post by Noah » Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:34 pm

dnavenom wrote:124 Preview: Beerus was acting menacing I wonder what that's all about.
Was that Beerus or Dyspo? :?
Sandubadear wrote:And again Vegeta pulls a new transformation out of thin air.
The last times being with..?
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Re: Super Episode 123 (14 January 2018)

Post by Chuquita » Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:37 pm

Cabba's so boring. I'm not even a vegebul fan and I'd still rather have had this new transformation triggered by Bulma along with the rest of Vegeta's immediate family than by boring ol Cabba. If he was a more interesting character or more developed character it could've been nice, but it didn't do anything for me.

That aside...Gokû's tricks were fun. I'm kinda meh on ssjblue2 and far left field curious if it's anime only or not.
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Re: Super Episode 123 (14 January 2018)

Post by Kaiosama » Sat Jan 13, 2018 11:47 pm

Artorias wrote:
Kaiosama wrote:
Bullza wrote:
Most forms are asspulls in this series. It's not even a new form. It's just the same form with a vast amount more power that it's broke his limits.
Still far inferior to UI Goku.
Why is this relevant? We're here to discuss the episode, not fanboy over FICTIONAL characters. They aren't real, so stop acting like they are. Who cares if UI Goku is or is not superior? That's irrelevant. It's not a sport.
Because it's terrible writing. The form is POINTLESS. It's being depicted as equal to SSBKKx20, which is old news. That's not going to do anything to Jiren. Why not just give him UI as well. Vegeta's "new" form is pointless, like it was a bone thrown from Toei saying "Okay Vegeta, we'll let you catch up to Goku at the start of this arc, but you're still going to have to watch Ultra Instinct take care of business".

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Re: Super Episode 123 (14 January 2018)

Post by RedHeat » Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:00 am

I think this episode kinda proves that Super doesn't always leave established plot points in the dust.
Feels over Reals.

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Re: Super Episode 123 (14 January 2018)

Post by GohanRogers » Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:06 am

I can't stand DBS anymore. Vegeta transforming because he remembered a promise Cabba made to him made me cringe, it would be MUCH better if he thought about his family and, you know, HIS NEWBORN. Like, what the hell are the writers thinking? I never liked Vegeta's character, but this arc made him unbearable to watch 'cause it melted all the development he got in the previously arcs. And Vegeta thinking about a promise someone he met for 1 day (the U6 tournament and the baseball filler, if that counts) instead of thinking about his own family just adds to the whole "it feels nothing is at stake in the ToP" and kills the whole drama of losing their universe.

And don't say that "Vegeta is sure they are going to win, so he only thinks about the erased people he cared about", that's BS, Jiren is whooping the floor with them, he should be desperate, not confident. The only reason I'm still watching Super is because I want to see what the writers got for Gohan, but my expectations are so low at this point that anything would surprise me. Once he drops, I'm out. Talking about Gohan, it annoys me so much how he is still hesitating even if Piccolo remarked that, after Gohan got his ultimate power up he was totally different, confident and not-hesitant. Remember Ultimate Gohan vs Super Buu? THAT'S how Gohan was supposed to be once he unleashed his potential again in episode 88. A confident warrior that does not hesitate in battle. The writers screw everything and not only made Ultimate be a transformation but they also got away with the confident and fierce traits that the ultimate power brought to Gohan. Now ultimate is just a transformation that adds a small bang to him and that's it, it's so lame.

I definitely guess I'm too old for DBS, but at the same time, I can easily watch a DBZ episode without being annoyed at the inconsistencies and HUGE plot holes (not because there isn't any, but because it doesn't have too many like Super and the plot holes are not that easy to notice). The drama, motivations, tension, consistency, power scaling and character development are all better in DBZ, it's like the writers are not even trying with Super because they think little kids can't think and the old fans holds a special place in their heart for DBZ so they will watch anything the has the name "Dragon Ball" on it. I'm tired of thinking, week after week, that DBS will get better the next episode, only to be disappointed again.

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Re: Super Episode 123 (14 January 2018)

Post by Galan007 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:07 am

I just feel like Vegeta's new 'ASSB' form could have been done SO much better.

Toei: "Blue hair? Lets make it a slightly different shade of blue. Blue aura? Lets make it a slightly different shade of blue and add sparkles. And while we're at it, lets bulk him up... cuz why not!?" *facepalm*

I also kind of chuckled at Vegeta's 'trigger' for ASSB. It wasn't to save his wife and children... It was resurrecting a kid from an alternate universe he's only met twice, because a faux-sensei always keeps his word. ElOhEl.

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Re: Super Episode 123 (14 January 2018)

Post by BWri » Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:12 am

Definitely a fun and engaging episode, but it does feel like "filler".

Best part of the episode: "Warrior. Sleep."
But outside of that perfectly delivered quote, Jiren and Goku were a treat to watch this week. Goku was surprisingly tactical and I loved his use ki landmines and the hexa kienzen, though I had to wonder if this was too smart for him. He's a fighting genius and all, but I wouldn't say tactics like this are his specialty. I liked the callback to when Krillin used it too, but it does make me sad that he was eliminated too soon to use his tricky human strats. Jiren's "big man" fighting style continues to impress and I love the weight behind all his blows. I wonder if he used some type of tactile telekinesis around him, as he wrapped his body in a skintight aura before leaping the debris back to the stage.

But anyway, the reason I said it feels like filler is because, like last episode, nothing of consequence really happened when you get right down to it and Jiren seems conveniently weakened just to stretch this out. They keep saying he's unleashing his power, but if SSBKK Goku is giving him any trouble at all, he's holding back a great deal from before.

Worst part of the episode: Vegeta's transformation. The Veggie man continues to disappoint me this arc. This form of his definitely seems haphazard and shoddily put together. It looks weird and feels inorganic. It's cool that Vegeta is breaking past his limits, but why does the form exude so much gaudiness, from the eyes to the sparkles and why does he partially look like Super Vegeta. It's like they just slapped together all his previous transformations with blue UI eyes and called it a day. I didn't feel the connection between his transformation and motive for transforming either. There was some spark missing to make that believable, as such it feels that Vegeta is transforming simply because the story needs him to get stronger. I wish they just used MSSB from the manga because its a cleaner design, the logic behind it is solid and it just looks better.

Other cool stuff:
-Gohan and #17 interaction. #17 tells it like it is, doesn't he? I love that and it makes sense that they wouldn't be well coordinated.
-Smug Khai. I want to see him do a snivy esque upturn of his nose.
-Another funny Zeno moment of him mimicking a fighter.
-Trash talk in the stands. I really want someone to throw a chair and start an audience brawl.
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Re: Super Episode 123 (14 January 2018)

Post by BlueBasilisk » Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:15 am

[spoiler]Image[/spoiler]
Looks an awful lot like a Final Shine... :think:

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Re: Super Episode 123 (14 January 2018)

Post by Hawk9211 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:17 am

Average episode but better than the last one.However,the peanut gallery is getting on my nerves,The next thing I expect is to tell that jiren is a pride trooper or he wears a red uniform.
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Re: Super Episode 123 (14 January 2018)

Post by BWri » Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:25 am

Draconic wrote:Jiren's regular punches just being that strong when he's using more of his power just screams Saitama.
I've been saying for a while now that Jiren isn't just a Superman insert/reference, but a hybrid Superman/Saitama reference because that's who everyone wants Goku to fight nowdays. The Saitama parts are clear as day, such as the baldness and the unexplained strength. Jiren is DBS Saitama. Also did you catch him using consecutive "normal punches" this episode? :lol:
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Re: Super Episode 123 (14 January 2018)

Post by Ice85 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:33 am

This episode was okay, felt filler-y though.
-Animation was below average, thankfully the storyboard and script were nice. "Warrior. Sleep." is now my favourite quote from Jiren.
-Vegeta's Transformation felt undeserved, so he just thinks about Cabba and suddenly he can get a new form? The reaction from the audience to Vegeta's new form was dissapointing, and the design looks bizzare.
Last edited by Ice85 on Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:38 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Super Episode 123 (14 January 2018)

Post by prince212 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:35 am

My Vegeta !!!
what are they doing to you ... in ep.122 your thoughts were nice for pride and in 123 for a promise to cabba !,,?
Feel like Zeno,s making fun of Vegeta going to sleep ( 15 seconds and recover)
I’m feeling like Powering up and beat the writers
Goku played well. New fight display , kuririn is happy
Gohan was kinda saved again by others ..
Freeza , can you stay golden 7 min? Go ahead please
It was as if a whole lot of people ...were screaming in pain....

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