Super Episode 123 (14 January 2018)

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Re: Super Episode 123 (14 January 2018)

Post by BWri » Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:38 am

BlueBasilisk wrote:
Kaiosama wrote:This episode was terrible. Vegeta's new form is such a cringey unforgivable asspull. Far worse than Super Saiyan Ikari Trunks. At least we know that his new form is weaker than UI and Goku is still the superior warrior.
How's it an asspull when they tell you what he did? That was a lot more explanation that most Dragon Ball forms get.
While it does by all means feel like an asspull, I have to agree that it technically isn't one. It's just so poor and disconnected that it might as well be one. A little more setup and payoff would be nice, seeing as last ep.'s powerup was about his pride and this one's about a promise he made to a Saiyan he barely knows.

Maybe last ep could've been the culmination of all his feelings dealing with Cabba and losing his race in two separate universes and this one the awakening of that new power. A more concrete emotional connection, you know?
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Re: Super Episode 123 (14 January 2018)

Post by Forte224 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:44 am

I'm happy Vegeta has a relevant power up (well, maybe, it seems to only be as good as SSBKKx20 so far, not better) but I'm sad that the build up was so brief. The transformation itself makes sense and all but it would have been nice if the episode were a little more Vegeta focused, as the fights that happened didn't really progress anything. They just felt like filler, especially considering next week's episode looks to continue those same fights, just with better animation. Anyway would have been nice to see Vegeta reflect on things and think about his past, his pride, Bulma, Trunks, Bra, Cabba, U6, etc. and then have that, combined with their backs being to the wall, be his trigger.

Anyway, the new form looks nice enough to me as SSB is one of my more preferred forms anyway. So a more refined version of it is cool in my book. Good episode overall, the fight choreography was pretty nifty even if the animation didn't rise to match it. I hope we get to the point soon though, it's all starting to drag out too much.

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Re: Super Episode 123 (14 January 2018)

Post by ernesth100 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:56 am

I'll admit while the plot for Super continues to be simplistic. It's still actually slightly impressive. It manages to have some truly great moments and memorable spots.

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Re: Super Episode 123 (14 January 2018)

Post by Kataphrut » Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:11 am

Also, Zeno imitating Jiren was adorable and I can't wait until we get to the point where he can start being used as the butt of jokes. That whole stoic badass attitude would be so easy to take the piss out of, but for now we have to take him seriously because he's the big threat.
Last edited by Kataphrut on Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Super Episode 123 (14 January 2018)

Post by Melab » Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:12 am

jplaya2023 wrote:so vegeta's new form basically is ssj blue grade 2 smh what a letdown

why isn't goku using UI
Super Saiyan Blue Sparkle.

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Re: Super Episode 123 (14 January 2018)

Post by Kanassa » Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:21 am

Zeno saying Goku was 'Running away, asking if it was a strategy, trying to imitate Jiren. 'This episode made me laugh too much. When Goku did the Destructo Disk, I just wanted Krillin and Frieza to yell "HE STOLE MY MOVE!" at the same time, then glare to each other.

I like the increasing showcase of Goku's battle smarts, with all that trap talk making me think he took inspiration from his previous pride trooper fight. Loved Goku takin ideas from Krillin when trying to eliminate Jiren.
When Super apparently shoves Goku down our throats:


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Re: Super Episode 123 (14 January 2018)

Post by Asura » Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:23 am

This episode could have been a lot better had it not been given to Kitano. Seriously, who keeps deciding to follow up the best animator with the absolute worst right after? The storyboard and direction mostly saved this episode, along with the soundtrack. The peanut gallery really needs to shut the hell up already. Even a three year old could figure out that Goku was planting mines down, we don't need that to be explained. I did like how Vegeta thought of Cabba and that's why he transformed, but I would have liked some stuff with Bulma and Trunks and Bra included in there as well. Otherwise it was kind of a weak transformation. Even visually it's rather boring. Slightly spikier hair, now it's a darker blue, and sparkles. Woohoo... :thumbdown:

How did we go from UI to this? UI has a name, it has an explanation, it has lore, it has a very unique look about it. This new unnamed transformation is nothing like that. It's basically another SSJ Rage.

I guess Gohan's done for next episode. I hope he can take Dyspo out with him at least. I wonder where 17 and Toppo are at though.

EDIT: I liked the scenes with 17 and Gohan, especially with 17 telling him they're never fought together before so they should stop trying to do team attacks.
Last edited by Asura on Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Super Episode 123 (14 January 2018)

Post by lancerman » Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:29 am

People are getting way too up tight about Vegeta's transformation. Is it really a whole lot different from the difference between the difference between SSJ and SSJ 2. Vegeta's hair changed and it's a darker blue, his eyes turned an even darker shade of blue, and he has a new sparkley aura. How different is that from slightly spikier hair and lightning in the aura?

Just call this Super Saiyan Blue 2 or Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan 2.

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Re: Super Episode 123 (14 January 2018)

Post by Hyena_Yamcha » Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:54 am

Pretty fun episode.

- i like how Goku used strategies to fight Jiren instead of attacking him head on.

- Vegeta's transformation could'v been explained better.

- The animation isn't the best but it didn't bother me that much.

Overall i give it an 8 out of 10.
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Re: Super Episode 123 (14 January 2018)

Post by Ki Breaker » Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:56 am

jplaya2023 wrote: why isn't goku using UI
Because he doesn't know how to..
It just happens randomly and that's not something you count as a skill you posses..
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Re: Super Episode 123 (14 January 2018)

Post by TheSaiyanGod » Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:56 am

I agree that Bulma and Bra could be remembered by Vegeta in this scene, being one more motivation for him to get stronger.
But we already had Kyabe, so I believe that Bulma and Bra can be used for Vegeta to overcome its limits again in another episode.

But about Vegeta's appearance with the '' new Blue '', it makes no sense to complain about the '' few changes ''.
The change from SSJ to SSJ2 is minimal. In Vegeta is barely noticeable.

SSJ just shivers hair, SSB is just a blue-haired SSJ with a new aura.
It is normal in DB the transformations do not have so many changes (except the SSJ3).

And even if it was all of a sudden, this transformation of Vegeta certainly makes a lot more sense than the SSJ Rage of the Trunks.
Vegeta trains hard for years to get stronger, with Whis and RoSaT, the least you can expect is an evolution. And here he had a motivation to get stronger and it was further explained that he '' broke the shell '', just as happened with Goku.

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Re: Super Episode 123 (14 January 2018)

Post by ShadowBardock89 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:03 am

Oh for Shin's sake.... Become SSB UI Gogeta and whip Jiren already!
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Re: Super Episode 123 (14 January 2018)

Post by MKCSTEALTH » Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:11 am

Animation was a bit of a downgrade, but the rest of this episode was so alpha!

Vegeta's power up got me in my feels. Loved seeing what I'm calling his Mastered Super Saiyan Blue form. And him imagining Cabba during it was so good!

We actually got to see Jiren putting forth some energy! He's an absolute monster! The way he was pummeling Goku was crazy! Though how a fatigued Goku is able to keep up with him I'm not too sure...

Fun episode! Next week is looking awesome!

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Re: Super Episode 123 (14 January 2018)

Post by sintzu » Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:14 am

We've seen Roshi, Freeza & Cell use this buff form so there's clearly nothing saying you can only be Ssj to use it which means using it in Blue shouldn't be an issue (it probably wouldn't if Goku was the one using it). Regardless of what it is, it looked amazing and I can't wait to see more of it.

Whis points out that team work is what's taking Jiren out of his comfort zone so chances are that's what'll take him down as everything from UI to a spirit bomb have done nothing to him plus Goku and Vegeta working together has been built up for awhile so it's about time they did it.
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Re: Super Episode 123 (14 January 2018)

Post by majinwarman » Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:25 am

I thought this episode was a good one. I never thought Vegeta was getting a new form but it happened. The animation looked fine but not Takahashi level obviously. I loved the tactics that Goku used in this episode. I'm also sad that Gohan messed up on eliminating Toppo. Goku and Vegeta's tag team was great at the end. I can't wait to see the end of this TOP. The ending looks like it may be great.
Rating: 8 out of 10
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Re: Super Episode 123 (14 January 2018)

Post by AvatarReiko » Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:27 am

Kaiosama wrote:
Bullza wrote:
Kaiosama wrote:Vegeta's new form is such a cringey unforgivable asspull. Far worse than Super Saiyan Ikari Trunks. At least we know that his new form is weaker than UI and Goku is still the superior warrior.
Most forms are asspulls in this series. It's not even a new form. It's just the same form with a vast amount more power that it's broke his limits.
Still far inferior to UI Goku.
SSJ and SSJ2 weren't aspulls. They were foreshadowed before they debut. The majority of the Cell saga involved them traing to break the SSJ barrier and SSJ was foreshadowed early in the namek arc

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Re: Super Episode 123 (14 January 2018)

Post by Totamo » Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:38 am

GohanRogers wrote:I can't stand DBS anymore. Vegeta transforming because he remembered a promise Cabba made to him made me cringe, it would be MUCH better if he thought about his family and, you know, HIS NEWBORN. Like, what the hell are the writers thinking? I never liked Vegeta's character, but this arc made him unbearable to watch 'cause it melted all the development he got in the previously arcs. And Vegeta thinking about a promise someone he met for 1 day (the U6 tournament and the baseball filler, if that counts) instead of thinking about his own family just adds to the whole "it feels nothing is at stake in the ToP" and kills the whole drama of losing their universe.

And don't say that "Vegeta is sure they are going to win, so he only thinks about the erased people he cared about", that's BS, Jiren is whooping the floor with them, he should be desperate, not confident. The only reason I'm still watching Super is because I want to see what the writers got for Gohan, but my expectations are so low at this point that anything would surprise me. Once he drops, I'm out. Talking about Gohan, it annoys me so much how he is still hesitating even if Piccolo remarked that, after Gohan got his ultimate power up he was totally different, confident and not-hesitant. Remember Ultimate Gohan vs Super Buu? THAT'S how Gohan was supposed to be once he unleashed his potential again in episode 88. A confident warrior that does not hesitate in battle. The writers screw everything and not only made Ultimate be a transformation but they also got away with the confident and fierce traits that the ultimate power brought to Gohan. Now ultimate is just a transformation that adds a small bang to him and that's it, it's so lame.

I definitely guess I'm too old for DBS, but at the same time, I can easily watch a DBZ episode without being annoyed at the inconsistencies and HUGE plot holes (not because there isn't any, but because it doesn't have too many like Super and the plot holes are not that easy to notice). The drama, motivations, tension, consistency, power scaling and character development are all better in DBZ, it's like the writers are not even trying with Super because they think little kids can't think and the old fans holds a special place in their heart for DBZ so they will watch anything the has the name "Dragon Ball" on it. I'm tired of thinking, week after week, that DBS will get better the next episode, only to be disappointed again.
You see whenever I see posts like this, I wonder if they actually watched dragon ball.

If you truly think that Universes are staying gone or the death matters dragon ball, you deserve to be disappointed by the reveal.

Also Gohan didn't hesitate, he stopped because if 17 would have gone out and Toppo would have escaped because Toppo destroyed the barrier form within.

Funny you bring up Ultimate Gohan, the one who was so arrogant, Buu was able to absorb Gotenks and him as well.


Plotholes and inconsistencies are easier to notice because you are not a kid, super has more than z, no doubt but if you going to sit there and say you can watch the namek saga and not be annoyed by the random zenkai boosts or the cell saga and how cell's origin breaks the time travel mechanic before super did, then you are clearly biased.


And finally, if Gohan is your reason for watching this show, a character that has been useful until this arc, then you should definitely drop it like right now.

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Re: Super Episode 123 (14 January 2018)

Post by Artorias » Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:39 am

lancerman wrote:People are getting way too up tight about Vegeta's transformation. Is it really a whole lot different from the difference between the difference between SSJ and SSJ 2. Vegeta's hair changed and it's a darker blue, his eyes turned an even darker shade of blue, and he has a new sparkley aura. How different is that from slightly spikier hair and lightning in the aura?

Just call this Super Saiyan Blue 2 or Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan 2.
The problem is the writers should actually just come out and SAY that it is in fact SSB2. That's all they would have to do, but since they for whatever reason refuse to explain ANYTHING in this show, we're left to just make up our own headcanon, which is bad writing.

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Re: Super Episode 123 (14 January 2018)

Post by piffolo » Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:55 am

Kaiosama wrote:This episode was terrible. Vegeta's new form is such a cringey unforgivable asspull. Far worse than Super Saiyan Ikari Trunks. At least we know that his new form is weaker than UI and Goku is still the superior warrior.
Lol how do we know that this is a weaker form to UI? UI is just Goku breaking his limits and dodging without thinking. Vegeta broke his limit just the same, once he learns to dodge instinctively (if he hasn't already) he'll be at the very least be on par with what Goku has shown so far. And it can't be considered an asspull when it's been foreshadowed for 13 episodes ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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Re: Super Episode 123 (14 January 2018)

Post by KingKaash » Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:05 am

Nice episode to move us along in the ToP:

-I absolutely loved the Destructo Disc strategy by Goku! It's a very creative way to eliminate Jiren without overpowering Jiren (which is what I think will happen if U7 ends up winning). It totally caught Jiren off guard. And then the throwback to "weak" Krillin basically teaching Goku of this strategy was executed beautifully. Bravo :clap:

-Zeno mimicking Jiren was very funny and one of the best things the Zenos have done in this ToP

-Decent strategy by Android 17 and Gohan to try to knock off Toppo but it's going to take a lot more than that to beat out a God of Destruction candidate

-The only thing I disliked about this episode was Vegeta transforming into his new form with Goku there. First off the transformation itself didn't feel as epic because Vegeta is transforming next to Goku who's going into SSJBKKx20 so as a viewer I didn't get to completely focus solely on Vegeta. And then Goku and Vegeta fighting together makes it difficult for me to judge how strong this new form of Vegeta's is. Jiren's flurry of punches attack should've knocked Goku to the ground to allow Vegeta to step back in and go 1-on-1 vs Jiren. I normally like seeing a Goku + Vegeta tag team but this was not done correctly for me
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