Super Episode 124 (21 January 2018)

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Re: Super Episode 124 (21 January 2018)

Post by Arg » Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:08 pm

Sshadow5001 wrote:Why didn't Freeza just break Dyspo's legs when Gohan was holding him, Nothing stops a quick bastard like broken legs. then they could have just thrown him out the ring.
Right. And tearing off his ears, burning a few holes into his torso. Just another example of bad writing this arc.

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Re: Super Episode 124 (21 January 2018)

Post by WittyUsername » Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:51 pm

Sshadow5001 wrote:Why didn't Freeza just break Dyspo's legs when Gohan was holding him, Nothing stops a quick bastard like broken legs. then they could have just thrown him out the ring.
I hadn’t even thought about that, but you’re right. Freeza could’ve just blasted Dyspo’s legs or something.

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Re: Super Episode 124 (21 January 2018)

Post by Totamo » Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:10 pm

Arg wrote:
Sshadow5001 wrote:Why didn't Freeza just break Dyspo's legs when Gohan was holding him, Nothing stops a quick bastard like broken legs. then they could have just thrown him out the ring.
Right. And tearing off his ears, burning a few holes into his torso. Just another example of bad writing this arc.
Super isn't graphic like that and breaking limbs in dragon ball has never really mattered.

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Re: Super Episode 124 (21 January 2018)

Post by bleed0range » Sun Jan 21, 2018 1:44 pm

I Could care less about Gohan because he hasn’t even been an interesting character. The most interesting character in this arc is actually Freeza and his motivations so I loved this episode.

I know it’s probably going nowhere since Super is ending but I hope there’s some kind of cool twist at the end with Freeza.

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Re: Super Episode 124 (21 January 2018)

Post by Nickolaidas » Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:11 pm

bleed0range wrote:I Could care less about Gohan because he hasn’t even been an interesting character. The most interesting character in this arc is actually Freeza and his motivations so I loved this episode.

I know it’s probably going nowhere since Super is ending but I hope there’s some kind of cool twist at the end with Freeza.
At this point I'll be satisfied if he comes back (to life) and fly away to fight another day. Being killed/erased near the end of Super would suck tremendous ass for me.

Him winning the Tournament makes zero sense with the series ending. I don't think the writers will ever end the series that way, unless they're positively CERTAIN they're beginning a new series next year.

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Re: Super Episode 124 (21 January 2018)

Post by bleed0range » Sun Jan 21, 2018 2:59 pm

Nickolaidas wrote:
bleed0range wrote:I Could care less about Gohan because he hasn’t even been an interesting character. The most interesting character in this arc is actually Freeza and his motivations so I loved this episode.

I know it’s probably going nowhere since Super is ending but I hope there’s some kind of cool twist at the end with Freeza.
At this point I'll be satisfied if he comes back (to life) and fly away to fight another day. Being killed/erased near the end of Super would suck tremendous ass for me.

Him winning the Tournament makes zero sense with the series ending. I don't think the writers will ever end the series that way, unless they're positively CERTAIN they're beginning a new series next year.

What if Freeza is turning good? If he won as a good guy (ala Vegeta when he started to become “good”), then that wouldn’t really require a lot more episodes to resolve.

I know everyone says Freeza will never become a good guy or shouldn’t. But at the same time, most people who become good do so because they also realize they’ll never be able to beat Goku. I think at this point, Freeza has at least started to think along those lines. Even if he isn’t “good,” he may have at least resolved to bide his time and just get along and get his life back so he’s not in Hell anymore. It would actually be an insult to his intelligence if he just short sightedly got himself killed... again. Besides, the line of good and evil has become quite murky when you consider Beerus kills millions at a time because he just represents balance. Or that Zeno can wipe out entire universes at a whim.

I think I could see him surprising everyone and just going his seperate ways at the end. Possibly even to a different universe or something.

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Re: Super Episode 124 (21 January 2018)

Post by Nickolaidas » Sun Jan 21, 2018 3:18 pm

bleed0range wrote:
Nickolaidas wrote:
bleed0range wrote:I Could care less about Gohan because he hasn’t even been an interesting character. The most interesting character in this arc is actually Freeza and his motivations so I loved this episode.

I know it’s probably going nowhere since Super is ending but I hope there’s some kind of cool twist at the end with Freeza.
At this point I'll be satisfied if he comes back (to life) and fly away to fight another day. Being killed/erased near the end of Super would suck tremendous ass for me.

Him winning the Tournament makes zero sense with the series ending. I don't think the writers will ever end the series that way, unless they're positively CERTAIN they're beginning a new series next year.

What if Freeza is turning good? If he won as a good guy (ala Vegeta when he started to become “good”), then that wouldn’t really require a lot more episodes to resolve.

I know everyone says Freeza will never become a good guy or shouldn’t. But at the same time, most people who become good do so because they also realize they’ll never be able to beat Goku. I think at this point, Freeza has at least started to think along those lines. Even if he isn’t “good,” he may have at least resolved to bide his time and just get along and get his life back so he’s not in Hell anymore. It would actually be an insult to his intelligence if he just short sightedly got himself killed... again. Besides, the line of good and evil has become quite murky when you consider Beerus kills millions at a time because he just represents balance. Or that Zeno can wipe out entire universes at a whim.

I think I could see him surprising everyone and just going his seperate ways at the end. Possibly even to a different universe or something.
Every villain in the DB universe took longer than the previous one to turn good. It took half a season with Yamcha. It took a season with Tien. It took two seasons with Piccolo. It took three seasons with Vegeta. I cannot, for the life of me, imagine Frieza getting redemption in 2-3 episodes. It would suck.

Frieza is still a villain. I firmly believe this whole Dyspo fight was an act in order to lure Gohan and take both of them out. At this point everyone is fighting for their universe while Frieza is all "DANCE, MY LITTLE PUPPETS! DANCE!!" For now, anyway.

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Re: Super Episode 124 (21 January 2018)

Post by fadeddreams5 » Sun Jan 21, 2018 3:34 pm

Noah wrote:
fadeddreams5 wrote:Android 17 has officially outlasted Gohan in this tournament. And frankly, nearly every other U7 character was more interesting in this arc than Gohan too, even Master Roshi. What a terrible character.
Sure, like Gohan is only interesting when he gets power-ups out of his ass and stomps everyone else.
I've never liked Adult Gohan because I know he could have developed into a generally better character, but his DBZ self was at least more charming and endearing than what Super and GT turned him into. He's the epitome of wasted potential. In fact, whenever I think someone in real life is wasting their potential, I call them "Adult Gohan"... and they get it! In this arc, he had that "yes, sensei!" follower mentality around Piccolo and his dad, despite being the captain. This is a character that should have long developed into a true confident leader with no hesitation, just like his future counterpart, only less stoic, more quirky, and yes, infinitely more poweful. I don't care about him receiving a power-up or not either, honestly. My gripe has always been the out-of-universe reasoning behind making sure he's 3 steps behind Goku in this department since the end of DBZ.
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Re: Super Episode 124 (21 January 2018)

Post by ulisa » Sun Jan 21, 2018 4:24 pm

I’ve never been a fan of Adult Gohan (at least not as much as his younger self) as I just don’t understand why they developed him the way they did. It’s certainly their right but from a writing standpoint, I just plain don’t get it because there are a lot more interesting angles you could take. It feels like they simply don’t know what to do with his character. I actually think that’s an issue with all the Half-Saiyan characters—they seem to either go full Saiyan with them for a while then drop them to the background. Personally, I would love to see the earthling and Saiyan traits blended more—let Gohan be a researcher but one that studies ki and energy and incorporates that into his fighting style to protect his family and friends, kind of like Dragonball Online did. He mentions a few times that he does get excited in martial arts matches so he does have that Saiyan drive, it just manifests differently. It seems like the half characters either have earthling traits or Saiyan traits especially once they hit adulthood and I personally think that’s lazy writing. You could do a whole lot more by blending those traits.

I was disappointed but not surprised by this episode’s outcome but I do appreciate how they have given Gohan some much needed growth and development. It’s not as much as I would have liked but it was still enjoyable. I was hoping this would end up more a team effort rather than Goku-Vegeta again but eh, the writers like who they like I guess.

I am disappointed Gohan was outed before 17 though. Just doesn’t make sense to me.
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Re: Super Episode 124 (21 January 2018)

Post by bleed0range » Sun Jan 21, 2018 4:37 pm

Nickolaidas wrote:
bleed0range wrote:
Nickolaidas wrote:
At this point I'll be satisfied if he comes back (to life) and fly away to fight another day. Being killed/erased near the end of Super would suck tremendous ass for me.

Him winning the Tournament makes zero sense with the series ending. I don't think the writers will ever end the series that way, unless they're positively CERTAIN they're beginning a new series next year.

What if Freeza is turning good? If he won as a good guy (ala Vegeta when he started to become “good”), then that wouldn’t really require a lot more episodes to resolve.

I know everyone says Freeza will never become a good guy or shouldn’t. But at the same time, most people who become good do so because they also realize they’ll never be able to beat Goku. I think at this point, Freeza has at least started to think along those lines. Even if he isn’t “good,” he may have at least resolved to bide his time and just get along and get his life back so he’s not in Hell anymore. It would actually be an insult to his intelligence if he just short sightedly got himself killed... again. Besides, the line of good and evil has become quite murky when you consider Beerus kills millions at a time because he just represents balance. Or that Zeno can wipe out entire universes at a whim.

I think I could see him surprising everyone and just going his seperate ways at the end. Possibly even to a different universe or something.
Every villain in the DB universe took longer than the previous one to turn good. It took half a season with Yamcha. It took a season with Tien. It took two seasons with Piccolo. It took three seasons with Vegeta. I cannot, for the life of me, imagine Frieza getting redemption in 2-3 episodes. It would suck.

Frieza is still a villain. I firmly believe this whole Dyspo fight was an act in order to lure Gohan and take both of them out. At this point everyone is fighting for their universe while Frieza is all "DANCE, MY LITTLE PUPPETS! DANCE!!" For now, anyway.
Well, technically the timeline would start from when Freeza first loss to Goku. He came back to kill him and lost again and then agreed to work with him (which is progress) and has so far seemed much more reasonable this entire TOP arc. So really, it’s been over 20 years in the real world lol. Or you could say, however many years not it’s been in their universe. Or you could even say since ROF in 2015 or the ROF arc. But it hasn’t been necessarily just a few episodes. He is not outwardly doing anything any more evil than Vegeta in his long transition.

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Re: Super Episode 124 (21 January 2018)

Post by Sshadow5001 » Sun Jan 21, 2018 4:49 pm

Totamo wrote:
Arg wrote:
Sshadow5001 wrote:Why didn't Freeza just break Dyspo's legs when Gohan was holding him, Nothing stops a quick bastard like broken legs. then they could have just thrown him out the ring.
Right. And tearing off his ears, burning a few holes into his torso. Just another example of bad writing this arc.
Super isn't graphic like that and breaking limbs in dragon ball has never really mattered.
I mean it wouldn't have to be graphic, just damage his legs, like King Piccolo did to Goku but with beams instead instead of rocks.
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Re: Super Episode 124 (21 January 2018)

Post by FortuneSSJ » Sun Jan 21, 2018 4:50 pm

Cool episode.

Damn, this Tournament is straight fire!! It has all kinds of fights.
I wasn't expecting a battle in the cage. That part was really good and original.

I don't like how Gohan was eliminated before C17, but overall he did great and he was a decent "Team Leader".
This is the only arc in DBS where I can say I enjoyed his character. He got his muscles back and kicked some ass. Asking for that in the beginning seemed to be too much...

The good thing about Gohan being eliminated is that the Gohan Blanco memes are over. That shit was annoying.

Toppo looks like a beast in the NEP and there are 4 U7 fighters there.
It's about time for him to kick some ass. #Justice
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Re: Super Episode 124 (21 January 2018)

Post by Taidow » Sun Jan 21, 2018 4:51 pm

I'm so intrigued in this weird relationship Frieza and Gohan have. Like, in a strange way Frieza kinda likes Gohan.

I don't know if Frieza was truly lying about losing his grip. Those death beams have always been quick lasers but to use all fingers and keep a hold on it does seem draining.

I figure it happened naturally but he does take some pleasure in knocking Gohan out since it had to happen.

I didn't mind Gohan sacrificing himself to eliminate Dyspo as it fits his character development.
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Re: Super Episode 124 (21 January 2018)

Post by The gr » Sun Jan 21, 2018 4:55 pm

FortuneSSJ wrote: Toppo looks like a beast in the NEP and there are 4 U7 fighters there.
It's about time for him to kick some ass. #Justice
Toppo is gonna rekt Frieza and #17.
What were your opinion on 123 and 122,you didn't post your thoughts there.
    My opinion has changed a little bit upon rewatch,now i find an ok episode just with weak animation and Gohan having little screentime yet he wasn't incompetent.

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    Re: Super Episode 124 (21 January 2018)

    Post by gofishus » Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:23 pm

    omaro34 wrote:Where was Gohan's rage boost that we've seen in the past?

    When Gohan is pushed back against the wall it used to be typical to see him get a rage boost. We didn't see that once all tournament. I expected more from Gohan.

    17 outlasting Gohan is surprising and 17 has overstayed his welcome for a guy who's been absent and forgotten about for 5 arcs.

    I'm not a gohan fan either. I expected more.
    Gohan's rage boost has been pretty much forgotten in Super and given to Future Trunks instead I think. I think Trunks even used Gohan's Masenko whereas Gohan has never used Masenko in Super

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    Re: Super Episode 124 (21 January 2018)

    Post by gofishus » Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:24 pm

    Totamo wrote:
    Arg wrote:
    Sshadow5001 wrote:Why didn't Freeza just break Dyspo's legs when Gohan was holding him, Nothing stops a quick bastard like broken legs. then they could have just thrown him out the ring.
    Right. And tearing off his ears, burning a few holes into his torso. Just another example of bad writing this arc.
    Super isn't graphic like that and breaking limbs in dragon ball has never really mattered.
    I dont think u watched the episode where Android 18 broke Vegeta's arm or when Gohan's arm was broken

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    Re: Super Episode 124 (21 January 2018)

    Post by FortuneSSJ » Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:49 pm

    The gr wrote:
    FortuneSSJ wrote: Toppo looks like a beast in the NEP and there are 4 U7 fighters there.
    It's about time for him to kick some ass. #Justice
    Toppo is gonna rekt Frieza and #17.
    What were your opinion on 123 and 122,you didn't post your thoughts there.
    Episode 122 suffers from the same old formula of using Vegeta as hype tool for the antagonist/villain, but Takahashi's supervision and Shida's storyboard elevate that episode a lot.
    It looks gorgeous, but if you dive deeper there's nothing new there.

    Episode 123 doesn't have the same animation/art quality, but the storyboard was also cool and the use of strategy was welcome. I liked to see new stuff like Goku's Ki mines and how he used the Kienzan strategy that Krillin did against him during his recruitment episode. The writing was better here.
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    Re: Super Episode 124 (21 January 2018)

    Post by Boku no Hitto » Sun Jan 21, 2018 7:04 pm

    gofishus wrote:
    omaro34 wrote:Where was Gohan's rage boost that we've seen in the past?

    When Gohan is pushed back against the wall it used to be typical to see him get a rage boost. We didn't see that once all tournament. I expected more from Gohan.

    17 outlasting Gohan is surprising and 17 has overstayed his welcome for a guy who's been absent and forgotten about for 5 arcs.

    I'm not a gohan fan either. I expected more.
    Gohan's rage boost has been pretty much forgotten in Super and given to Future Trunks instead I think. I think Trunks even used Gohan's Masenko whereas Gohan has never used Masenko in Super
    He's used it like four times in the tournament? Hell he did it in THIS episide!

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    Re: Super Episode 124 (21 January 2018)

    Post by King Jacku » Sun Jan 21, 2018 7:28 pm

    Y'know, I'm not even mad that Gohan went out like that since I expected him to be the one to beat Dyspo, nor do I care that 17 outlasted him or that he didn't get a power-up..

    But why the F is it that when Gohan gets an EP to himself, there is so much animation re-usage and the choreography is so lackluster? There were many amazing fights with brand new animation during the middle of the tourney with not so important characters and that takes priority over a main character's elimination? They knew months in advance too, so why not make the finale as epic as can be?

    If I knew another arc was coming, I really wouldn't care, but there isn't. And I'm not even sure he's going to appear in the new movie. I feel his last fighting episode in Super should have been so much more, since we're not going to see him fight again for awhile.
    Last edited by King Jacku on Sun Jan 21, 2018 7:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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    Re: Super Episode 124 (21 January 2018)

    Post by Whatever » Sun Jan 21, 2018 7:32 pm

    gofishus wrote:
    omaro34 wrote:Where was Gohan's rage boost that we've seen in the past?

    When Gohan is pushed back against the wall it used to be typical to see him get a rage boost. We didn't see that once all tournament. I expected more from Gohan.

    17 outlasting Gohan is surprising and 17 has overstayed his welcome for a guy who's been absent and forgotten about for 5 arcs.

    I'm not a gohan fan either. I expected more.
    Gohan's rage boost has been pretty much forgotten in Super and given to Future Trunks instead I think. I think Trunks even used Gohan's Masenko whereas Gohan has never used Masenko in Super
    Gohan outgrew his rage boosts,not to mention his rage boosts were his latent/hidden power which is all out thanks to the Ultimate form so he cannot get any more.
    Also Gohan used Masenko at the least twice in this tournament,heck he even used it in this episode.......

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