Super Episode 124 (21 January 2018)

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Re: Super Episode 124 (21 January 2018)

Post by Doctor. » Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:32 am

dbzfan7 wrote:5 minutes. An episode called Gohan's last stand, and he was in it for 5 minutes.
Sounds like the last episode for Vegeta.

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Re: Super Episode 124 (21 January 2018)

Post by Super_Divine_Genki » Sun Jan 21, 2018 8:42 am

Nooooooo... Gohaaaaan!

I have been on the Gohan train during this entire run, and can't help but feel a little underwhelmed by his elimination and overall performance. If anything, that goes to show how much Dyspo has been under-estimated throughout all of this -- he took on Golden Freeza and a serious Gohan at the same time for his last stand! I think that's where my issue lies -- if this was to be Gohan's elimination episode, why is it that it was Dyspo (Dyspo!!) that came out looking like a stud? Not to mention that Gohan only popped in at the last few minutes of the episode(supposedly his episode!)? The episode title wasn't a red herring after all, it straight up wasn't hiding anything. #17 still out on the field at this point with Gohan in the stands is a very odd writing choice, imo. I think that I read somewhere that the current series director is a big #17 fan, so...

For what it is, Gohan did very good to last as long to be standing amongst the other seven remaining combatants. I had Gohan as the last standing for his universe from the very beginning, but that was only if Goku got eliminated somehow first. Now, the tournament becomes less interesting and more predictable on the U7 side of things, imo. It could very well be Goku, Vegeta, Jiren and Toppo all in-play at the end of the timer.

Anyway, Dyspo was the MVP in an episode that was presumed to center on Gohan. I was expecting a really big Gohan moment during this run, and we didn't even get to see him thinking about preserving his family's existence. The narrative now is very questionable for why #17 is still out there -- he's had nothing but awesome moments and portrayal throughout this entire thing already! A character that didn't even care if he and his family were going to be erased to begin with...

I'm genuinely happy for all of you #17 fans out there. He's had an awesome run up to this point. :)

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Re: Super Episode 124 (21 January 2018)

Post by gammabeast21 » Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:14 am

People complaining that Gohan got eliminated this episode but this was the best possible way for him to go out. I'll list why:

1. Akira Toriyama:
Comparing the manga and anime makes you realise that Toriyama didn't have big plans for Gohan. Only people who got special recruitment in both mediums was Vegeta, #17 and Freeza. Gohan is shown to just be another Z-fighter. The anime possibly heard the fandoms desire for Gohan to be prominent and decided to make him have a more central role by participating in the Zen Exhibition Match, help recruit krillin and #18, Give him character development(will address this in another point) and lastly make him the leader of U7. In the end though Toei had stick to Toriyama's outline which made him go out against Dyspo.

2. Gohan's Character arc:
In the anime Gohan's character arc was that he relied too heavily on his emotions in battle and that while pushed him forward sometimes, it always blinded in making the right calls. E. g. Kid Gohan scared of Nappa, SSJ2 Gohan wanting too make Cell suffer, and too corky to destroy buu. Gohan overcomes this flaw and the results can be seen in the tournament. He defeated all his opponents through strategy: Gohan had made a plan to eliminate Botamo; Gohan first made Obuni drain his stamina before going full out; Gohan bought time for Piccolo against namekians; and finally the cage of beams was Gohan's idea and without it they both could have lost to Dyspo.It would make no sense for Gohan to win through a rage boost because that would go against his arc.

3. Gohan the Leader:
A leader is the one who makes the tough calls in battle. He must be composed and once again not emotional. A good leader will do what's best for the team and not himself. Gohan was the weakest link in terms of Stamina and power.

4. Why Gohan and not #17:
People say that #17 should have been eliminated instead and Episode 123 showed that #17 is willing to eliminate himself to take someone else out. Firstly #17 is more powerful than Gohan so Gohan would rather eliminate himself than a stronger team member. #17 is also the better strategist as when he teams up with someone its always him who cones up with the plan or sees an enemy weakness(he makes the plans even when Gohan is present).This is just my prediction but all signs point to that when Toppo reveals his GoD power he'll mollywop and eliminate #17 to show how powerful he has become. Now fans decide, would you rather want Gohan to go out on his own terms or to beaten down by Toppo.

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Re: Super Episode 124 (21 January 2018)

Post by Noah » Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:21 am

dbzfan7 wrote:Does anyone find Freeza taking orders from anyone just really weird. The scariest thing is.....Gohan is possibly like one of the last people I would ever think Freeza would listen to. I mean that was just weird.
Nope. They're fighting to survive and Freeza wants to get revived, it's no surprise he indeed cooperated this time.
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Re: Super Episode 124 (21 January 2018)

Post by SonReggie » Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:24 am

Super_Divine_Genki wrote:
For what it is, Gohan did very good to last as long to be standing amongst the other seven remaining combatants. I had Gohan as the last standing for his universe from the very beginning, but that was only if Goku got eliminated somehow first. Now, the tournament becomes less interesting and more predictable on the U7 side of things, imo. It could very well be Goku, Vegeta, Jiren and Toppo all in-play at the end of the timer.
Worse - they're pretty much setting things up so that Goku and Vegeta will need to fuse, as there is no way they can beat Jiren as things stand.

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Re: Super Episode 124 (21 January 2018)

Post by Doctor. » Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:28 am

SonReggie wrote:
Super_Divine_Genki wrote:
For what it is, Gohan did very good to last as long to be standing amongst the other seven remaining combatants. I had Gohan as the last standing for his universe from the very beginning, but that was only if Goku got eliminated somehow first. Now, the tournament becomes less interesting and more predictable on the U7 side of things, imo. It could very well be Goku, Vegeta, Jiren and Toppo all in-play at the end of the timer.
Worse - they're pretty much setting things up so that Goku and Vegeta will need to fuse, as there is no way they can beat Jiren as things stand.
Maybe they don't. Jiren could very well win.

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Re: Super Episode 124 (21 January 2018)

Post by gammabeast21 » Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:36 am

Noah wrote:
dbzfan7 wrote:Does anyone find Freeza taking orders from anyone just really weird. The scariest thing is.....Gohan is possibly like one of the last people I would ever think Freeza would listen to. I mean that was just weird.
Nope. They're fighting to survive and Freeza wants to get revived, it's no surprise he indeed cooperated this time.
I read somewhere that Freeza was being sarcastic or cheeky when calling Gohan leader. The subs couldn't convey that though, so it was read like he was submissive to Gohan.

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Re: Super Episode 124 (21 January 2018)

Post by Super_Divine_Genki » Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:46 am

SonReggie wrote:
Super_Divine_Genki wrote:
For what it is, Gohan did very good to last as long to be standing amongst the other seven remaining combatants. I had Gohan as the last standing for his universe from the very beginning, but that was only if Goku got eliminated somehow first. Now, the tournament becomes less interesting and more predictable on the U7 side of things, imo. It could very well be Goku, Vegeta, Jiren and Toppo all in-play at the end of the timer.
Worse - they're pretty much setting things up so that Goku and Vegeta will need to fuse, as there is no way they can beat Jiren as things stand.
The odds of that actually happening are looking very good. I hope that Fusion doesn't come into play, but you're right, it could be a last desperate attempt to eliminate Jiren. That would go far into knocking a lot of this storyline down, imo.

... don't do it, Super.

Or like Doctor said, Jiren may win anyway. Whatever happens, it looks like the series will be ending with something of a cliffhanger.

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Re: Super Episode 124 (21 January 2018)

Post by lancerman » Sun Jan 21, 2018 9:52 am

dbzfan7 wrote:
lancerman wrote:
dbzfan7 wrote:Does anyone find Freeza taking orders from anyone just really weird. The scariest thing is.....Gohan is possibly like one of the last people I would ever think Freeza would listen to. I mean that was just weird.
Well compared to who though? I think Freeza would sabotage the team rather than listen to Goku or Vegeta. I also doubt he views anyone else besides Gohan as worth his time.
Not sure why he'd view him as worth his time honestly. I just don't think he'd listen to anyone honestly. It's pretty shocking with how compliant he was.
Well you said Gohan is one of the last people Freeza would listen too. 17, 18, Kuriren, Tenshinhan, Roshi, and Piccolo just simply aren't anywhere in Freeza's league and the dude wouldn't give any of them the time of day imo. The only 3 close to his level are Goku, Gohan, and Vegeta. He has a burning hatred of Goku and Vegeta betrayed him. Gohan is the only one that is on Freeza's level that he doesn't despise enough to spite.

So that's why I said, Gohan's actually the person Freeza would be most likely to cooperate with overall. I don't know if he would cooperate with anyone, but Gohan is the most likely.

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Re: Super Episode 124 (21 January 2018)

Post by Professor Freeza » Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:02 am

lancerman wrote:
dbzfan7 wrote:
lancerman wrote:
Well compared to who though? I think Freeza would sabotage the team rather than listen to Goku or Vegeta. I also doubt he views anyone else besides Gohan as worth his time.
Not sure why he'd view him as worth his time honestly. I just don't think he'd listen to anyone honestly. It's pretty shocking with how compliant he was.
Well you said Gohan is one of the last people Freeza would listen too. 17, 18, Kuriren, Tenshinhan, Roshi, and Piccolo just simply aren't anywhere in Freeza's league and the dude wouldn't give any of them the time of day imo. The only 3 close to his level are Goku, Gohan, and Vegeta. He has a burning hatred of Goku and Vegeta betrayed him. Gohan is the only one that is on Freeza's level that he doesn't despise enough to spite.

So that's why I said, Gohan's actually the person Freeza would be most likely to cooperate with overall. I don't know if he would cooperate with anyone, but Gohan is the most likely.
Also remember Gohan impressed Second form freeza on namek. He remembers that.

Also wasnt he angry in RoF that Goku's son couldnt give him a fight?

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Re: Super Episode 124 (21 January 2018)

Post by Hugo Boss » Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:04 am

Gohan and Freeza seem to have some kind of compatibility when it comes to planning ahead and good execution, which is something I wasn’t expecting. Though, this is probably the reason Gohan was knocked off along with Dyspo. I’m almost sure Freeza pretended that cage was draining him. Though, this might backfire because he didn’t antecipate Toppo had such hidden power.

So, considering Dyspo would defeat either Gohan or Freeza alone, I guess this wasn’t as underwhelming as I initially thought. I’m satisfied with Gohan.

Next episode we have GoD Toppo (called the purple aura) and this will probably help to clarify some things.

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Re: Super Episode 124 (21 January 2018)

Post by Spider-Man » Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:10 am

The Good
    -Dyspo ability was cool in this episode.
      -The strategy of Gohan and Frieza was creative,The whole laser cage was neat.
        -I'm satisfied with Gohan performance in this arc,He fought well.
          The Bad
            -The amount of reused animation in the battle was tedious.
              -I really wish the whole episode focus on Gohan vs Dyspo because we know Frieza is fighting Toppo next week.
                -Man Zeno is once again annoying, last episode he was cute but now he's back to be annoying again.
                  Final Verdict
                    Overall it was an ok episode not the greatest,I wish Gohan do more in this episode but I can't stay mad at him,he did well in this tournament so I'm not disappointed with this character.

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                    Re: Super Episode 124 (21 January 2018)

                    Post by Sshadow5001 » Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:17 am

                    Why didn't Freeza just break Dyspo's legs when Gohan was holding him, Nothing stops a quick bastard like broken legs. then they could have just thrown him out the ring.
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                    Re: Super Episode 124 (21 January 2018)

                    Post by Lord Beerus » Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:18 am

                    Something just dawned on me when I rewatched the episode. When it comes to Gohan being eliminated, this was actually the best option for him. Considering that Toppo appears that he will becoming much stronger in the next episode, if Gohan had eliminated Dyspo and stuck around longer, he would have most likely just gotten his shit pushed in by "Hakaishin"(?) Toppo and then gotten anticlimactically eliminated by him. Gohan really went in the best way when you think about it. He went down on his own terms based on a very smart plan he came up with and took down one of the strongest competitors left.

                    Oh, the episode got a slight upgrade from my rewatch from painfully average to somewhat above average.

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                    Re: Super Episode 124 (21 January 2018)

                    Post by Boku no Hitto » Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:29 am

                    [spoiler]
                    gammabeast21 wrote:People complaining that Gohan got eliminated this episode but this was the best possible way for him to go out. I'll list why:

                    1. Akira Toriyama:
                    Comparing the manga and anime makes you realise that Toriyama didn't have big plans for Gohan. Only people who got special recruitment in both mediums was Vegeta, #17 and Freeza. Gohan is shown to just be another Z-fighter. The anime possibly heard the fandoms desire for Gohan to be prominent and decided to make him have a more central role by participating in the Zen Exhibition Match, help recruit krillin and #18, Give him character development(will address this in another point) and lastly make him the leader of U7. In the end though Toei had stick to Toriyama's outline which made him go out against Dyspo.

                    2. Gohan's Character arc:
                    In the anime Gohan's character arc was that he relied too heavily on his emotions in battle and that while pushed him forward sometimes, it always blinded in making the right calls. E. g. Kid Gohan scared of Nappa, SSJ2 Gohan wanting too make Cell suffer, and too corky to destroy buu. Gohan overcomes this flaw and the results can be seen in the tournament. He defeated all his opponents through strategy: Gohan had made a plan to eliminate Botamo; Gohan first made Obuni drain his stamina before going full out; Gohan bought time for Piccolo against namekians; and finally the cage of beams was Gohan's idea and without it they both could have lost to Dyspo.It would make no sense for Gohan to win through a rage boost because that would go against his arc.

                    3. Gohan the Leader:
                    A leader is the one who makes the tough calls in battle. He must be composed and once again not emotional. A good leader will do what's best for the team and not himself. Gohan was the weakest link in terms of Stamina and power.

                    4. Why Gohan and not #17:
                    People say that #17 should have been eliminated instead and Episode 123 showed that #17 is willing to eliminate himself to take someone else out. Firstly #17 is more powerful than Gohan so Gohan would rather eliminate himself than a stronger team member. #17 is also the better strategist as when he teams up with someone its always him who cones up with the plan or sees an enemy weakness(he makes the plans even when Gohan is present).This is just my prediction but all signs point to that when Toppo reveals his GoD power he'll mollywop and eliminate #17 to show how powerful he has become. Now fans decide, would you rather want Gohan to go out on his own terms or to beaten down by Toppo.
                    [/spoiler]

                    This. So much this. The whole "big rage moment to go Blanco" trope ceased for Gohan when he eliminated u10/obuni. That picture and their erasure? In the past gohan would have flipped out and charged at who ever was responsible. He didn't here, he mourned, paid his respects, and moved on because he was focused on the taak at hand! Jesus, Gohan's writing has been fantastic and wonderfully subtle. Even to his commanding nature towards Freeza. He knows he couldn't beat him in a one on one fight but dammit if he isn't alpha enough to try.

                    And Freeza... My god this man is cunning! I don't know whether he planned for Gohan to come to his aid but he damn sure knew the moment gohan arrived it was a wrap. Him "losing his grip" and foiling a plan gohan came up with to knock two more people out? It highlighted two thing's:

                    One. Even though Gohan was focused on the task at hand, he fell into Freezas trap the moment he came to his aid.

                    Two. Freeza's consistency. I don't believe for a second that he went all out or ran out of stamina. Even the way he told gohan to hurry read and sounded OOC. Sure he could have rained down hell on them both(and it'd be a very Freeza thing to do) but then he'd have to deal with 17, Goku and Vegeta while already having to deal with Toppo and Jiren! The latter of whom he wants absolutely nothing to do with. And this is all assuming doing so wouldn't result in gohan AND dyspo surviving and fighting him together.

                    So what does he do? He goes down the path of least resistance. Physically and power level wise, he's Stronger than them both alone, but together he wouldn't be able to take them. So lure gohan into thinking that getting himself eliminated is HIS idea and that Freeza had just "ran out of stamina" before the final blow.

                    It works so well with everyone's character arc. Gohan because he's focused but still green and overeager to prove himself. Plus his "tankish" tendency's. Most, if not all of his plans involve him tanking and outlasting or distracting while others spot him. And Freeza has been observing EV-ER-Y-THING.

                    Gohan may not have gone ultra ultimate mystic blanco god kaioken times jiren. But to me, his character arc and development was fantastic, and his and Freeza's personal story arcs crossing and one being taken down by the other is wonderful to me. I just kind of wish the episode was more focused on it. Maybe have Gohan fighting dyspo and being cautious and paranoid of Freeza but dyspos speed being the foil resulting in the cage, resulting in Freeza "fainting" and resulting in Gohan's instinctive self sacrifice rounding out and alsinleaving open his arc of redemption, maturity and his battle with his obsession with martyrdom.

                    Also this confirm that Dyspo was a beast and his fight with Hit wasn't a fluke but he still has an over reliance on his speed mode getting him out of jam's.

                    Woah. Hella long. MbMb.
                    Last edited by Boku no Hitto on Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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                    Re: Super Episode 124 (21 January 2018)

                    Post by ekrolo2 » Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:30 am

                    Lord Beerus wrote:Something just dawned on me when I rewatched the episode. When it comes to Gohan being eliminated, this was actually the best option for him. Considering that Toppo appears that he will becoming much stronger in the next episode, if Gohan had eliminated Dyspo and stuck around longer, he would have most likely just gotten his shit pushed in by "Hakaishin"(?) Toppo and then gotten anticlimactically eliminated by him. Gohan really went in the best way when you think about it. He went down on his own terms based on a very smart plan he came up with and took down one of the strongest competitors left.

                    Oh, the episode got a slight upgrade from my rewatch from painfully average to somewhat above average.
                    Is it really an anti climactic way for him to go when a God of Destruction is the one kicking his shit in? It wouldn't be anything like Piccolo being beaten by a guy he's tailor made to win against.
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                    Re: Super Episode 124 (21 January 2018)

                    Post by Boku no Hitto » Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:33 am

                    ekrolo2 wrote:
                    Lord Beerus wrote:Something just dawned on me when I rewatched the episode. When it comes to Gohan being eliminated, this was actually the best option for him. Considering that Toppo appears that he will becoming much stronger in the next episode, if Gohan had eliminated Dyspo and stuck around longer, he would have most likely just gotten his shit pushed in by "Hakaishin"(?) Toppo and then gotten anticlimactically eliminated by him. Gohan really went in the best way when you think about it. He went down on his own terms based on a very smart plan he came up with and took down one of the strongest competitors left.

                    Oh, the episode got a slight upgrade from my rewatch from painfully average to somewhat above average.
                    Is it really an anti climactic way for him to go when a God of Destruction is the one kicking his shit in? It wouldn't be anything like Piccolo being beaten by a guy he's tailor made to win against.
                    Why? So everyone can complain that he was jobbed out to Toppo?

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                    Re: Super Episode 124 (21 January 2018)

                    Post by ekrolo2 » Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:37 am

                    Boku no Hitto wrote:
                    ekrolo2 wrote:
                    Lord Beerus wrote:Something just dawned on me when I rewatched the episode. When it comes to Gohan being eliminated, this was actually the best option for him. Considering that Toppo appears that he will becoming much stronger in the next episode, if Gohan had eliminated Dyspo and stuck around longer, he would have most likely just gotten his shit pushed in by "Hakaishin"(?) Toppo and then gotten anticlimactically eliminated by him. Gohan really went in the best way when you think about it. He went down on his own terms based on a very smart plan he came up with and took down one of the strongest competitors left.

                    Oh, the episode got a slight upgrade from my rewatch from painfully average to somewhat above average.
                    Is it really an anti climactic way for him to go when a God of Destruction is the one kicking his shit in? It wouldn't be anything like Piccolo being beaten by a guy he's tailor made to win against.
                    Why? So everyone can complain that he was jobbed out to Toppo?
                    I just explained how it wouldn't really be an issue if he and Freeza got a big win with Dyspo and then got beaten by Toppo. Toppo is already a tough SOB and him getting some GoD level power up creates a logical situation for U7 to suffer losses.

                    The Dragon tard fanbase bitches and complains about everyone jobbing over any scene where their favorite isn't soloing the entire verse so who gives a Kardashian's cunt what they're gonna be mad about.
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                    Re: Super Episode 124 (21 January 2018)

                    Post by Boku no Hitto » Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:52 am

                    ekrolo2 wrote:
                    Boku no Hitto wrote:
                    ekrolo2 wrote: Is it really an anti climactic way for him to go when a God of Destruction is the one kicking his shit in? It wouldn't be anything like Piccolo being beaten by a guy he's tailor made to win against.
                    Why? So everyone can complain that he was jobbed out to Toppo?
                    I just explained how it wouldn't really be an issue if he and Freeza got a big win with Dyspo and then got beaten by Toppo. Toppo is already a tough SOB and him getting some GoD level power up creates a logical situation for U7 to suffer losses.

                    The Dragon tard fanbase bitches and complains about everyone jobbing over any scene where their favorite isn't soloing the entire verse so who gives a Kardashian's cunt what they're gonna be mad about.
                    Just like they're doing now? Besides i'd rather not see every video and every post on this site and other's being about how "toei and Toriyama fed Gohan to Toppo to make Vegeta and Goku look good" and how they hate him and Toyotaro in all his okayness needs to takeover because fan's know what's best.*looks at vegetto* But seriously I got sick of that shit back when BoG came BoG; RoF and its counterpart broke whatever back that damn camel had left.

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                    Re: Super Episode 124 (21 January 2018)

                    Post by ekrolo2 » Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:00 am

                    Boku no Hitto wrote:
                    ekrolo2 wrote:
                    Boku no Hitto wrote:
                    Why? So everyone can complain that he was jobbed out to Toppo?
                    I just explained how it wouldn't really be an issue if he and Freeza got a big win with Dyspo and then got beaten by Toppo. Toppo is already a tough SOB and him getting some GoD level power up creates a logical situation for U7 to suffer losses.

                    The Dragon tard fanbase bitches and complains about everyone jobbing over any scene where their favorite isn't soloing the entire verse so who gives a Kardashian's cunt what they're gonna be mad about.
                    Just like they're doing now? Besides i'd rather not see every video and every post on this site and other's being about how "toei and Toriyama fed Gohan to Toppo to make Vegeta and Goku look good" and how they hate him and Toyotaro in all his okayness needs to takeover because fan's know what's best.*looks at vegetto* But seriously I got sick of that shit back when BoG came BoG; RoF and its counterpart broke whatever back that damn camel had left.
                    As I said, these people are obnoxious twats the second Gohan and/or Vegeta are instantly rofl stomping the entirety of the Dragon Ball universe from the dinosaur of chapter 1 to Zeno, you'll save yourself a lot of grief focusing on what's good in service to the story quality and not to the Dragon Tard movement of the series not playing to fan favorites.
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