Super Episode 126 (4 February 2018)

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Re: Super Episode 126 (4 February 2018)

Post by Birusu16 » Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:41 pm

Awesome episode. Vegeta finally got that much sought after moment we've been wanting for him for a long time, so I'm happy.

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Re: Super Episode 126 (4 February 2018)

Post by Kinokima » Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:41 pm

Artorias wrote:
Kinokima wrote:
Artorias wrote:
Why would he arbitrarily "save some for himself" this time? He also wants to make sure Toppo is eliminated...Why would he hold anything back in one instance but not the other?

And your second point just ignores everything I said.
I think you are missing something crucial in your argument. Yes Vegeta is stronger so the blast is stronger but because he is stronger he doesn’t have to use up all his energy to blast Toppo.

Not to mention he was trying to blast Toppo off the stage not kill him like he tried to do with Buu.

So what Piccolo says actually makes sense because Vegeta is stronger he can handle channeling even more energy. He also didn’t necessarily need to kill himself to just knock Toppo off the stage.

It’s basically the same idea behind the attack it’s just no longer a sacrificial attack. At least that’s how I see it.
"Yes Vegeta is stronger so the blast is stronger but because he is stronger he doesn’t have to use up all his energy to blast Toppo." That point doesn't make any sense to me. If Vegeta is stronger, then the blast should be stronger IN PROPORTION to how strong he is, correct? AND he's doing this to a GOD OF DESTRUCTION level character, Toppo. So why exactly would he survive here, but not in the Buu saga? The entire point of the move is that he's using all of his energy to essentially blow himself up. Again, the blast is stronger this time as well, so his body still shouldn't be able to handle it. It's not like Blue somehow makes you more resilient.

And again, if it's no longer a sacrificial attack, then there is ZERO point in doing the callback and having us sit through that 2 minute flashback. The ENTIRE POINT of the move is that it kills him. That's WHY they inserted the flashback to begin with. The fact that it's "no longer a sacrificial attack" renders the whole attack and scene pointless. Just have him power up and pull off a giant generic explosion, there's no need to callback to the Buu arc suicide at that point.
I don’t get what you are saying! His body can endure more of the blast now than it could before. It was still a massive amount of energy he channeled but he doesn’t have to completely blow himself up to knock Toppo off the stage. That’s all there is to it.

And yeah Toppo has god of destruction power but Vegeta also got a major boost not so long ago.


Yeah I guess they didn’t have to call back to the Buu saga but they wanted to show he was using the same attack. Personally I didn’t mind that because I love the scene and I liked the call back. Although I could have did without the “is he dead” scenes (although I already knew he wasnt).
Last edited by Kinokima on Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Super Episode 126 (4 February 2018)

Post by Doctor. » Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:43 pm

ZenkaiBoosts wrote:So many posts of "what's up with Jiren suddenly thrashing Toppo?"

In episode 125, Jiren was disappointed that Toppo chose "God of destruction powers" over his duty of justice to the Pride Troopers.

Jiren is some one whos all about morals and justice. Jiren is Dragon Ball's Superman

So Jiren was basically like, "serves you right choosing against justice, that's what you get Toppo, now I'm going to show you how it's done while remaining true to the essence of the Pride Troopers"

It boggles my mind how many can not seem to understand this
I understand and pointed it out in my post. It doesn't work because Jiren has almost no characterization in the anime. It only works with the knowledge of his character from the manga.

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Re: Super Episode 126 (4 February 2018)

Post by Totamo » Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:44 pm

Melee_Sovereign wrote:
Totamo wrote:
Melee_Sovereign wrote: It being common doesn't make it any better. Though I still don't want Dragon Ball to end in the long run and hope we get another series in the future.
The issues vary but the main one is always come down to bad planning. Now super never had good planning to begin with.
I'm sure there are plenty of reason, but it doesn't mean we should lower our standards for good writing just because the most mainstream animes have writing flaws.

With that said, I wouldn't just flat out say DBS's writing is bad. Rather, I'd say DBS has good writing with a lot of flaws. Meaning despite its flaws, I think a lot of good things can be said about the writing of Super.
Super's writing is not bad, its just inconsistent because they are too many cooks in the kitchen. You have Toriyama's plot outline which we have all agreed is vague as hell, then you have Toyo who is apparently his editor, then you have toei's house of writers and then you have bandai telling what to do so they can market toys form the anime.


Like people have always told me Toriyama is best when he is edited, well he is by everyone and now very little makes sense, very little actual matters and very little feels connected.
Last edited by Totamo on Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Super Episode 126 (4 February 2018)

Post by Lord Beerus » Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:44 pm

Doctor. wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:
Doctor. wrote: This excuse that "t-that's just how Dragon Ball is" doesn't work. Dragon Ball was never this dumb, inconsistent or thoughtless.
I'm not sure if I can agree with that. I'm nearly done rewatching and reading all of Dragon Ball and Z (both and manga) and I can tell you right now that it has a lot of dumb, inconsistent or thoughtless shit in it that in some aspects in way worse than what Super doing or has already done.
Yes, Dragon Ball has plenty of dumb shit. But its dumb shit goes somewhere. Its plot points aren't presented one episode or chapter and dropped immediately in the next one. It's not written in a way that places the spectacle above ALL logic. It follows a formula but it doesn't rehash the same moments over and over and over again.
Not all of Dragon Ball's dumb shit goes somewhere and it is also guilty of reusing certain moments. But that's a topic for another thread I have planned for. :wink:

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Re: Super Episode 126 (4 February 2018)

Post by OverHeaven » Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:45 pm

I feel bad for Toppo. One of the best new characters, but because of this terribly written episode by that terrible writer everyone's shitting on him. What's worse is that this is probably the last time we'll see something from him, and that is how everyone will remember him. At least until the new series comes, if there is any.

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Re: Super Episode 126 (4 February 2018)

Post by ZenkaiBoosts » Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:45 pm

Artorias wrote:I can't wait for people to STILL complain when Vegeta inevitably gets eliminated by Jiren. Toei has given us more Vegeta fan service and shine than I ever thought possible in this arc. I think everyone should be grateful that he just essentially single handedly defeated a God of Destruction. He's done his part, please don't whine when he goes out.
Yep. They should be grateful. Vegeta should've been eliminated a long time ago. They even eliminated GOHAN the son of Goku before Vegeta. Up to this point, they have given Vegeta more shine then even Goku himself, and that's unacceptable when Goku is the main character. Goku hasn't even had 1 huge win yet in Super. It's insanity. Vegeta has gotten more then enough so I too don't want to hear anything when Jiren eliminates Vegeta next week. Enough is enoygh. Vegeta's arc is wrapped up and Vegeta got his farewell epic moment. Now be done with it

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Re: Super Episode 126 (4 February 2018)

Post by sintzu » Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:46 pm

Hit!! wrote:I'm really surprised at the negativity in this thread!!!
That's what happens when you go on about something then end up being completely wrong.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.

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Re: Super Episode 126 (4 February 2018)

Post by precita » Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:46 pm

OverHeaven wrote:I feel bad for Toppo. One of the best new characters, but because of this terribly written episode by that terrible writer everyone's shitting on him. What's worse is that this is probably the last time we'll see something from him, and that is how everyone will remember him. At least until the new series comes, if there is any.
I don't know where you got this from. I'm sure Toppo and Jiren will get some appearances when Dragonball returns too.

How are people shitting on him? He's incredibly powerful, defeated Freeza and blew away 17 like he was nothing. Vegeta barely defeated him by sacrificing his energy and even then if this wasn't a tournament Toppo would have still been in the fight because it didn't kill him.

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Re: Super Episode 126 (4 February 2018)

Post by gofishus » Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:47 pm

Stamina really doesn't matter in this show does it? Senzu beans are banned but it really doesn't seem to matter. Goku was able to get all his energy back just by *fighting* (which defies logic, normal people lose stamina when they fight, Goku gains it?), and Vegeta gained back all his stamina not once but TWICE, once after being mauled by Jiren and now after his 'self destruction' technique he's back to sparkly blue again. Seriously, this eliminates all tension. Might as well just say 'Goku and Vegeta have infinite energy like the androids'

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Re: Super Episode 126 (4 February 2018)

Post by Super Saiyan Swagger » Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:48 pm

Jiren roundhouse kicking Goku mid-sentence was unintentionally hilarious. Knocked him out of his Blue form as well. :lol:

I think this might be one of the most mixed reaction I've seen towards a Super episode judging by the posts in this thread. I still managed to enjoy the episode even with some of its shortcomings. I guess with the show ending so soon some things can't help but feel rushed. I am so curious if the arc will manage to answer the questions I have in the 5 episodes that are left.

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Re: Super Episode 126 (4 February 2018)

Post by BlueBasilisk » Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:50 pm

gofishus wrote:Stamina really doesn't matter in this show does it? Senzu beans are banned but it really doesn't seem to matter. Goku was able to get all his energy back just by *fighting* (which defies logic, normal people lose stamina when they fight, Goku gains it?), and Vegeta gained back all his stamina not once but TWICE, once after being mauled by Jiren and now after his 'self destruction' technique he's back to sparkly blue again. Seriously, this eliminates all tension. Might as well just say 'Goku and Vegeta have infinite energy like the androids'
Goku's been doing this since Battle of Gods. Beerus would leave him beaten on the ground, he'd lay there for a bit then get back up and keep fighting while still getting stronger.

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Re: Super Episode 126 (4 February 2018)

Post by precita » Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:50 pm

Super Saiyan Swagger wrote:Jiren roundhouse kicking Goku mid-sentence was unintentionally hilarious. Knocked him out of his Blue form as well. :lol:

I think this might be one of the most mixed reaction I've seen towards a Super episode judging by the posts in this thread. I still managed to enjoy the episode even with some of its shortcomings. I guess with the show ending so soon some things can't help but feel rushed. I am so curious if the arc will manage to answer the questions I have in the 5 episodes that are left.
I think if Toppo at least lasted a few episodes in this form some of the backlash would be less.

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Re: Super Episode 126 (4 February 2018)

Post by Kinokima » Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:51 pm

ZenkaiBoosts wrote:
Artorias wrote:I can't wait for people to STILL complain when Vegeta inevitably gets eliminated by Jiren. Toei has given us more Vegeta fan service and shine than I ever thought possible in this arc. I think everyone should be grateful that he just essentially single handedly defeated a God of Destruction. He's done his part, please don't whine when he goes out.
Yep. They should be grateful. Vegeta should've been eliminated a long time ago. They even eliminated GOHAN the son of Goku before Vegeta. Up to this point, they have given Vegeta more shine then even Goku himself, and that's unacceptable when Goku is the main character. Goku hasn't even had 1 huge win yet in Super. It's insanity. Vegeta has gotten more then enough so I too don't want to hear anything when Jiren eliminates Vegeta next week. Enough is enoygh. Vegeta's arc is wrapped up and Vegeta got his farewell epic moment. Now be done with it

I am not going to whine when Vegeta goes out lol. That doesn’t mean I won’t be sad because the show is ending but I am happy with what I got at the same time.

But you can always tell when people aren’t Vegeta fans. This was literally Vegeta’s first major victory ever but he got more shine than Goku? Really

I am thankful for Super for treating Vegeta so well (better than I could ever hope) but they aren’t treating Goku badly. He got just as many eliminations as Vegeta and also already defeated a major antagonist this arc. Are we forgetting Kefla.

He also got UI and I am sure will defeat Jiren. And had moments with almost everyone on U7 (as he should of course)

But apparently because Vegeta finally won a major fight & got a new transformation he is getting too much shine. And need I remind people he actually didn’t get much focus until this last part of the arc.
Last edited by Kinokima on Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Super Episode 126 (4 February 2018)

Post by Jigurashi » Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:52 pm

ZenkaiBoosts wrote:
Kaiosama wrote:This...was...awful. The writing is probably some of the worst we've seen in this series. Yeah, let's keep giving Vegeta these BS pride power-ups from speeches. Where the hell where these in Z or early Super? Way to build up Toppo and make him look unstoppable and menacing and then have him job HARD to Vegeta. And Vegeta's Final Explosion isn't so 'Final' is it? I'm sorry this episode was so biased towards Vegeta that it was sickening. Hopefully Jiren can knock him and the others out so we can get to the real fight with UI Goku and Jiren.

They should have buffed Frieza instead. It would have been so much more interesting than Vegeta's bland character. Ugh...
I agree with you in that I hope Jiren cleans house in episode 127.

Vegeta has gotten more then enough shine. Now it's time for Vegeta to get eliminated. Enough is enough

Whether Super chapter 1 gets remembered in a good light or not, will come down to if they nail UI Omen Goku vs Jiren 1 vs 1. It needs to be as epic as possible with build up, pacing and execution

Remember the promo material teases? It said that something awful would happen to push Goku into that transformation

I hope it's all done extremely well and I hope Goku's UI transformation is as epic as Goku's SSJ transformation on Namek.

The real fight everyone has been looking forward to is UI Goku vs Jiren

It's crazy how Goku has NOT gotten 1 legit huge win in Super yet. It's Super annoying.

They even let Vegeta get a win over a god of destruction while Goku still hasn't gotten anything.

It's actually kind of insulting.

Goku needs to be the one to straight up defeat Jiren one vs one.

Toyotaro is said to be a huge Vegeta fanboy and Goku hater. I'm glad Toei stopped listening to Toyotaro, and started taking Toriyama's scripts as the word of God, as Toei just recently said
Goku beat a Fusion. That is a big W.

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Re: Super Episode 126 (4 February 2018)

Post by OverHeaven » Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:54 pm

precita wrote:
OverHeaven wrote:I feel bad for Toppo. One of the best new characters, but because of this terribly written episode by that terrible writer everyone's shitting on him. What's worse is that this is probably the last time we'll see something from him, and that is how everyone will remember him. At least until the new series comes, if there is any.
I don't know where you got this from. I'm sure Toppo and Jiren will get some appearances when Dragonball returns too.

How are people shitting on him? He's incredibly powerful, defeated Freeza and blew away 17 like he was nothing. Vegeta barely defeated him by sacrificing his energy and even then if this wasn't a tournament Toppo would have still been in the fight because it didn't kill him.
I said "At least until the new series comes, if there is any"
Also, I meant real people, not the anime characters.

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Re: Super Episode 126 (4 February 2018)

Post by precita » Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:55 pm

OverHeaven wrote:
precita wrote:
OverHeaven wrote:I feel bad for Toppo. One of the best new characters, but because of this terribly written episode by that terrible writer everyone's shitting on him. What's worse is that this is probably the last time we'll see something from him, and that is how everyone will remember him. At least until the new series comes, if there is any.
I don't know where you got this from. I'm sure Toppo and Jiren will get some appearances when Dragonball returns too.

How are people shitting on him? He's incredibly powerful, defeated Freeza and blew away 17 like he was nothing. Vegeta barely defeated him by sacrificing his energy and even then if this wasn't a tournament Toppo would have still been in the fight because it didn't kill him.
I said "At least until the new series comes, if there is any"
Also, I meant real people, not the anime characters.
I don't see "real people" shitting on him either, most are complaining Toppo went down too fast, not that they dislike Toppo himself.

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Re: Super Episode 126 (4 February 2018)

Post by TheOtherDude » Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:55 pm

ZenkaiBoosts wrote:
Artorias wrote:I can't wait for people to STILL complain when Vegeta inevitably gets eliminated by Jiren. Toei has given us more Vegeta fan service and shine than I ever thought possible in this arc. I think everyone should be grateful that he just essentially single handedly defeated a God of Destruction. He's done his part, please don't whine when he goes out.
Yep. They should be grateful. Vegeta should've been eliminated a long time ago. They even eliminated GOHAN the son of Goku before Vegeta. Up to this point, they have given Vegeta more shine then even Goku himself, and that's unacceptable when Goku is the main character. Goku hasn't even had 1 huge win yet in Super. It's insanity. Vegeta has gotten more then enough so I too don't want to hear anything when Jiren eliminates Vegeta next week. Enough is enoygh. Vegeta's arc is wrapped up and Vegeta got his farewell epic moment. Now be done with it
Surely you don’t think people will value anything you have to say seeing as how you have such a blatant bias towards anything Vegeta related?

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Re: Super Episode 126 (4 February 2018)

Post by LightBing » Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:56 pm

ZenkaiBoosts wrote:So many posts of "what's up with Jiren suddenly thrashing Toppo?"

In episode 125, Jiren was disappointed that Toppo chose "God of destruction powers" over his duty of justice to the Pride Troopers.

Jiren is some one whos all about morals and justice. Jiren is Dragon Ball's Superman

So Jiren was basically like, "serves you right choosing against justice, that's what you get Toppo, now I'm going to show you how it's done while remaining true to the essence of the Pride Troopers"

It boggles my mind how many can not seem to understand this
I remember something like "so you've decided" from Jiren after Toppo chooses. If I missed anything my bad; but that's what one line? It's fair too sudden to be good characterization, I maintain it seems forced in to make Jiren look "evil".
Anime Jiren is no Superman, I don't see any morality or justice in him.

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Re: Super Episode 126 (4 February 2018)

Post by ZenkaiBoosts » Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:56 pm

Doctor. wrote:
ZenkaiBoosts wrote:So many posts of "what's up with Jiren suddenly thrashing Toppo?"

In episode 125, Jiren was disappointed that Toppo chose "God of destruction powers" over his duty of justice to the Pride Troopers.

Jiren is some one whos all about morals and justice. Jiren is Dragon Ball's Superman

So Jiren was basically like, "serves you right choosing against justice, that's what you get Toppo, now I'm going to show you how it's done while remaining true to the essence of the Pride Troopers"

It boggles my mind how many can not seem to understand this
I understand and pointed it out in my post. It doesn't work because Jiren has almost no characterization in the anime. It only works with the knowledge of his character from the manga.
You dont need to know about Jiren's backstory TO KNOW that in episode 125 Jiren was disappointed that Toppo chose destruction over justice (in order to survive). Episode 126 PLAYED OFF THAT - events that happened in episode 125 in the anime.

You just simply have needed to watched episode 125 and been paying attention

"Ok Jiren is disappointed if not angry that Toppo chose destruction power over justice and pride troopers"

If you simply saw THAT, then you understood when watching today...

"Ok, that's why Jiren threw shade at Toppo"

There really is no validity to this "criticism"

If you didn't personally like it on a subjective level, fine, that's your opinion, that's Ok, but state it as an opinion, don't ever try and say it was a flaw or bad writing. People in here need to be able to distinguish between whats an actual flaw vs something you just didnt personally like

I LOVED Jiren throwing shade at Toppo and basically saying, "this is how you do it while remaining true to justice" It was logical. It was built off episode 125.

Look, I hate Vegeta. And I'm not just saying that. Read my post history.

I agree with everyone in here saying that Vegeta has gotten too much shine in Super and that his power ups were iillogical...but I still thought this episode was bad ass and epic...and I'm happy that we can finally move on from Vegeta - and are one step closer to UI Goku vs Jiren

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