Super Episode 126 (4 February 2018)

[Doctor.]

I think Dragonball just isn't for you anymore.

This excuse that "t-that's just how Dragon Ball is" doesn't work. Dragon Ball was never this dumb, inconsistent or thoughtless.

[precita]

I think Dragonball just isn't for you anymore.

This excuse that "t-that's just how Dragon Ball is" doesn't work. Dragon Ball was never this dumb, inconsistent or thoughtless.

One of your complaints is moves being re-used, did you complain back in DBZ that Goku used the Spirit bomb against 3 final villains? (Saiyan Saga Vegeta, Freeza and Kid Buu?)

Vegeta using the sacrifice move isn't just a callback, it's seemingly now one of his most powerful last-ditch attacks to defeat a character with. And he survived because Piccolo explain in Blue form he's millions of times more capable of surviving than he was in the Buu arc.

[dbzfan7]

That was awful. One of the weakest episodes in the series. So many bad decisions I can't even count.

Why is Toppo spamming Hakai spheres even though it supposedly takes a while to charge them? And why is he using them to blow up some rubble when his normal attacks should do that just fine? Why did #17 think that trapping Toppo under some rubble was an effective strategy when even the weakest fighters in the tournament could blow up the arena? I appreciate them trying to make #17 out to be some kind of tactician but that was a dumb strategy. And yet again with the rocks, if base Freeza (somehow) managed to trap Toppo, why did he waste his time throwing rocks and blasting him instead of just throwing him out of the arena like he did on Namek with Goku? Why is Jiren calling Goku and Vegeta "impudent bastards"? I want to say it feels out-of-character, after the way he keeps praising them both, but Jiren is just such a piece of boring cardboard that I can't even make that assertion. They claim that splitting up Goku and Vegeta is bad because then U11 would have the upperhand... how, exactly? If they split up Goku and Vegeta, then #17 and Freeza will fight Jiren alongside with Goku. U7 has the numerical advantage, how would splitting the fighters up be to THEIR detriment and not to U11's?

Hakai was just wasted completely. I won't dwell on the fact that any character touching Toppo should be destroyed (due to his Hakai aura), because Toppo obviously doesn't want to be DQ'd so he probably "turns it off" when attacking physically or when he's being attacked, but the fact that the Hakai balls can be destroyed by punches and Ki attacks is just stupid. Why bother going through the trouble of introducing this different kind of energy if it's no different from everything else? This problem already applied to last episode with Freeza surviving the Hakai sphere but it just gets amped up to absurdity in this one. "I'll give you an attack too powerful to destroy" is up there with "I'm too fast for your Time-Skip now" and "My power surpasses my own understanding." I shouldn't have to explain why Vegeta getting a power boost thinking of his family and friends is a bad thing. It was bad when he first transformed, it's bad now. Dragon Ball doesn't do power-ups like that and, when it does, they come from rage and/or amount to nothing.

The decision to use his self-destruction move was stupid. He did it against Boo because he was losing and, even if he was stronger, he'd have to blow him up so he wouldn't be able to regenerate. Here, he was winning and all he had to do was throw Toppo out of the arena. Why sacrifice your Ki and health over a fight that you had the upper-hand in? And the scene itself was terrible. You don't defeat a major antagonist with a rehash of a previous moment. That's not memorable, that's not new, that's not exciting. That's stupidly trying to piggyback on the old series' name and status without actually having the balls to go through and kill the character off like Z did. Let's throw a bit of character regression by switching Goku's name in his speech to Cabba's. Furthermore, the excuse they used was just incredibly stupid. He survived because he's stronger now than he was back in the Boo arc? Uh... his fucking attack is stronger now, too! Or are they trying to imply that Vegeta just eliminated Toppo with an attack that couldn't even kill Majin Boo? And, of course, Toppo amounted to nothing after his display last episode. You thought he was going to be defeated by some strategy after they stressed how he must have a weakness in his perfect defense and he needs to charge his attacks. But nope, he just gets overpowered.

The stamina thing is getting out of hand. If Goku wasn't enough, Freeza is back up this episode after getting absolutely destroyed in the last one (and his presence didn't serve any purpose, either. He's out of sight after his attack and isn't even present in the NEP). Vegeta, too, used all of his power, only to get back to full power next episode. I also think this needs to be stated, the episode was filled with an excessive amount of padding. 2 minutes at the start showing us the end of the previous episode plus 2 minutes of a flashback of Majin Vegeta's sacrifice. What's the point?

There were some things I appreciated, but they were plagued with problems also. I liked #17 being treated as a tactician as I said, but I've already highlighted the problems in his strategy. I like Jiren belittling Toppo, because I feel that one who holds justice at such a high level would have no respect for someone like Toppo who chose to cast it aside, but without the knowledge we have on his character from the manga, it feels contradictory with the way he's been portrayed so far and even out-of-character (as well as his little smirk at the end). I did like him one-shotting Goku though, since that's what he should be capable of doing and what he should have done all along. Thematically, I like the idea of Vegeta, who takes a more selfless pride on who he is and who he's surrounded by, defeating someone who chose to cast away his ideals for the sake of power, but, again, the way it was executed was awful.

I don't usually rant like this, but this was beyond terrible, it even surpasses episode 12. I didn't think the ToP could be this bad before, but it just keeps proving me wrong. I fear for the finale.

Maybe Ultra Instinct can save it. It pretty much has always been a highlight when around. But really not a lot is that surprising with how high or low this series can go.

[Doctor.]

One of your complaints is moves being re-used, did you complain back in DBZ that Goku used the Spirit bomb against 3 final villains? (Saiyan Saga Vegeta, Freeza and Kid Buu?)

How can you miss the point this hard? No, my point was rehashing an old scene as a way to defeat a major antagonist. All of the Genkidama were distinct (both in size and context; Goku didn't spout the same speech all 3 times and the circumstances were never the same) and only one of them killed the villain. So they were all memorable. When you think of Vegeta's sacrifice in the future, will you think of this or Majin Vegeta's first? Majin Vegeta's, most likely. When you think of the Genkidama, which one do you think of first? Probably Boo's, since that was the one that killed the villain, but all 3 of them are memorable enough to be a first choice. You won't think about the movie Genkidamas because all they do is rehash the same circumstances and scenes as the original series. And that's exactly what Super does.

And he survived because Piccolo explain in Blue form he's millions of times more capable of surviving than he was in the Buu arc.

It seems you didn't actually read my post. Yes, Vegeta is much stronger now. So is his attack. Unless you try to convince me that Vegeta used the same kind of power he used against Boo, then that's a poor excuse.

[MegaBossMan]

Will Vegeta ever perform an actual new move in Super? Will Toppo ever eliminate a single fighter? Will rocks ever defeat Toppo? Will Jiren ever get a semblance of a readable personality? Will there ever be a moment of actual tension for Universe 7? Find out on the next--wait no the series is pretty much set to finish isn't it

I really like Super, but man I wish so many better decisions could be taken with it. I'm sick of almost every universe scoring no goals, and I'm particularly not fond that every Universe has been pretty much been taken out by Goku and co; none of these external enemies have accomplished anything, and if it wasn't for their appealing designs and gimmicks, none of the participants would mean anything to me. Currently 4 out of 5 fighters are from Goku's team, and if there's anyone else who could be eliminated it'll be from Jiren. I know this is a more general criticism than episodic, but this episode just highlights the issues with the new characters overall. It's a shame.

The biggest fault here is that Vegeta will never ever ever perform anything remotely new. I was hoping we'll see a Final Gamma Burst or whatever to give Vegeta a new character moment, but nope we're just getting more homages. At least the storyboard was neat, so I wouldn't say this episode wasn't good, but it didn't define itself very well because it's plagued by previous instances.

Oh, and Toppo's scream was blood-curdling! Gotta give credit where it's due!

[Kinokima]

I think Dragonball just isn't for you anymore.

This excuse that "t-that's just how Dragon Ball is" doesn't work. Dragon Ball was never this dumb, inconsistent or thoughtless.

One of your complaints is moves being re-used, did you complain back in DBZ that Goku used the Spirit bomb against 3 final villains? (Saiyan Saga Vegeta, Freeza and Kid Buu?)

Vegeta using the sacrifice move isn't just a callback, it's seemingly now one of his most powerful last-ditch attacks to defeat a character with. And he survived because Piccolo explain in Blue form he's millions of times more capable of surviving than he was in the Buu arc.

Maybe Vegeta should have final flashed again

Oh wait he did. I love the move but it’s been over used this arc.

[WittyUsername]

That was awful. One of the weakest episodes in the series. So many bad decisions I can't even count.

Why is Toppo spamming Hakai spheres even though it supposedly takes a while to charge them? And why is he using them to blow up some rubble when his normal attacks should do that just fine? Why did #17 think that trapping Toppo under some rubble was an effective strategy when even the weakest fighters in the tournament could blow up the arena? I appreciate them trying to make #17 out to be some kind of tactician but that was a dumb strategy. And yet again with the rocks, if base Freeza (somehow) managed to trap Toppo, why did he waste his time throwing rocks and blasting him instead of just throwing him out of the arena like he did on Namek with Goku? Why is Jiren calling Goku and Vegeta "impudent bastards"? I want to say it feels out-of-character, after the way he keeps praising them both, but Jiren is just such a piece of boring cardboard that I can't even make that assertion. They claim that splitting up Goku and Vegeta is bad because then U11 would have the upperhand... how, exactly? If they split up Goku and Vegeta, then #17 and Freeza will fight Jiren alongside with Goku. U7 has the numerical advantage, how would splitting the fighters up be to THEIR detriment and not to U11's?

Hakai was just wasted completely. I won't dwell on the fact that any character touching Toppo should be destroyed (due to his Hakai aura), because Toppo obviously doesn't want to be DQ'd so he probably "turns it off" when attacking physically or when he's being attacked, but the fact that the Hakai balls can be destroyed by punches and Ki attacks is just stupid. Why bother going through the trouble of introducing this different kind of energy if it's no different from everything else? This problem already applied to last episode with Freeza surviving the Hakai sphere but it just gets amped up to absurdity in this one. "I'll give you an attack too powerful to destroy" is up there with "I'm too fast for your Time-Skip now" and "My power surpasses my own understanding." I shouldn't have to explain why Vegeta getting a power boost thinking of his family and friends is a bad thing. It was bad when he first transformed, it's bad now. Dragon Ball doesn't do power-ups like that and, when it does, they come from rage and/or amount to nothing.

The decision to use his self-destruction move was stupid. He did it against Boo because he was losing and, even if he was stronger, he'd have to blow him up so he wouldn't be able to regenerate. Here, he was winning and all he had to do was throw Toppo out of the arena. Why sacrifice your Ki and health over a fight that you had the upper-hand in? And the scene itself was terrible. You don't defeat a major antagonist with a rehash of a previous moment. That's not memorable, that's not new, that's not exciting. That's stupidly trying to piggyback on the old series' name and status without actually having the balls to go through and kill the character off like Z did. Let's throw a bit of character regression by switching Goku's name in his speech to Cabba's. Furthermore, the excuse they used was just incredibly stupid. He survived because he's stronger now than he was back in the Boo arc? Uh... his fucking attack is stronger now, too! Or are they trying to imply that Vegeta just eliminated Toppo with an attack that couldn't even kill Majin Boo? And, of course, Toppo amounted to nothing after his display last episode. You thought he was going to be defeated by some strategy after they stressed how he must have a weakness in his perfect defense and he needs to charge his attacks. But nope, he just gets overpowered.

The stamina thing is getting out of hand. If Goku wasn't enough, Freeza is back up this episode after getting absolutely destroyed in the last one (and his presence didn't serve any purpose, either. He's out of sight after his attack and isn't even present in the NEP). Vegeta, too, used all of his power, only to get back to full power next episode. I also think this needs to be stated, the episode was filled with an excessive amount of padding. 2 minutes at the start showing us the end of the previous episode plus 2 minutes of a flashback of Majin Vegeta's sacrifice. What's the point?

There were some things I appreciated, but they were plagued with problems also. I liked #17 being treated as a tactician as I said, but I've already highlighted the problems in his strategy. I like Jiren belittling Toppo, because I feel that one who holds justice at such a high level would have no respect for someone like Toppo who chose to cast it aside, but without the knowledge we have on his character from the manga, it feels contradictory with the way he's been portrayed so far and even out-of-character (as well as his little smirk at the end). I did like him one-shotting Goku though, since that's what he should be capable of doing and what he should have done all along. Thematically, I like the idea of Vegeta, who takes a more selfless pride on who he is and who he's surrounded by, defeating someone who chose to cast away his ideals for the sake of power, but, again, the way it was executed was awful.

I don't usually rant like this, but this was beyond terrible, it even surpasses episode 12. I didn't think the ToP could be this bad before, but it just keeps proving me wrong. I fear for the finale.

On the subject of Toppo, I kind of wish that the fan-theory of Jiren being the one to eliminate him because he felt that Toppo was betraying his sense of justice actually did turn out to be true. It would’ve given Jiren’s anime self some much needed personality (beyond simply being a generic and smug badass), and it wouldn’t have diminished Toppo’s threat level, since we already knew from the start that Jiren is stronger than him. Plus, it would’ve made Jiren look much more intimidating if he had to be the one to defeat an ultra powerful enemy for Goku and friends.

[jeffbr92]

That was awful. One of the weakest episodes in the series. So many bad decisions I can't even count.

Why is Toppo spamming Hakai spheres even though it supposedly takes a while to charge them? And why is he using them to blow up some rubble when his normal attacks should do that just fine? Why did #17 think that trapping Toppo under some rubble was an effective strategy when even the weakest fighters in the tournament could blow up the arena? I appreciate them trying to make #17 out to be some kind of tactician but that was a dumb strategy. And yet again with the rocks, if base Freeza (somehow) managed to trap Toppo, why did he waste his time throwing rocks and blasting him instead of just throwing him out of the arena like he did on Namek with Goku? Why is Jiren calling Goku and Vegeta "impudent bastards"? I want to say it feels out-of-character, after the way he keeps praising them both, but Jiren is just such a piece of boring cardboard that I can't even make that assertion. They claim that splitting up Goku and Vegeta is bad because then U11 would have the upperhand... how, exactly? If they split up Goku and Vegeta, then #17 and Freeza will fight Jiren alongside with Goku. U7 has the numerical advantage, how would splitting the fighters up be to THEIR detriment and not to U11's?

Hakai was just wasted completely. I won't dwell on the fact that any character touching Toppo should be destroyed (due to his Hakai aura), because Toppo obviously doesn't want to be DQ'd so he probably "turns it off" when attacking physically or when he's being attacked, but the fact that the Hakai balls can be destroyed by punches and Ki attacks is just stupid. Why bother going through the trouble of introducing this different kind of energy if it's no different from everything else? This problem already applied to last episode with Freeza surviving the Hakai sphere but it just gets amped up to absurdity in this one. "I'll give you an attack too powerful to destroy" is up there with "I'm too fast for your Time-Skip now" and "My power surpasses my own understanding." I shouldn't have to explain why Vegeta getting a power boost thinking of his family and friends is a bad thing. It was bad when he first transformed, it's bad now. Dragon Ball doesn't do power-ups like that and, when it does, they come from rage and/or amount to nothing.

The decision to use his self-destruction move was stupid. He did it against Boo because he was losing and, even if he was stronger, he'd have to blow him up so he wouldn't be able to regenerate. Here, he was winning and all he had to do was throw Toppo out of the arena. Why sacrifice your Ki and health over a fight that you had the upper-hand in? And the scene itself was terrible. You don't defeat a major antagonist with a rehash of a previous moment. That's not memorable, that's not new, that's not exciting. That's stupidly trying to piggyback on the old series' name and status without actually having the balls to go through and kill the character off like Z did. Let's throw a bit of character regression by switching Goku's name in his speech to Cabba's. Furthermore, the excuse they used was just incredibly stupid. He survived because he's stronger now than he was back in the Boo arc? Uh... his fucking attack is stronger now, too! Or are they trying to imply that Vegeta just eliminated Toppo with an attack that couldn't even kill Majin Boo? And, of course, Toppo amounted to nothing after his display last episode. You thought he was going to be defeated by some strategy after they stressed how he must have a weakness in his perfect defense and he needs to charge his attacks. But nope, he just gets overpowered.

The stamina thing is getting out of hand. If Goku wasn't enough, Freeza is back up this episode after getting absolutely destroyed in the last one (and his presence didn't serve any purpose, either. He's out of sight after his attack and isn't even present in the NEP). Vegeta, too, used all of his power, only to get back to full power next episode. I also think this needs to be stated, the episode was filled with an excessive amount of padding. 2 minutes at the start showing us the end of the previous episode plus 2 minutes of a flashback of Majin Vegeta's sacrifice. What's the point?

There were some things I appreciated, but they were plagued with problems also. I liked #17 being treated as a tactician as I said, but I've already highlighted the problems in his strategy. I like Jiren belittling Toppo, because I feel that one who holds justice at such a high level would have no respect for someone like Toppo who chose to cast it aside, but without the knowledge we have on his character from the manga, it feels contradictory with the way he's been portrayed so far and even out-of-character (as well as his little smirk at the end). I did like him one-shotting Goku though, since that's what he should be capable of doing and what he should have done all along. Thematically, I like the idea of Vegeta, who takes a more selfless pride on who he is and who he's surrounded by, defeating someone who chose to cast away his ideals for the sake of power, but, again, the way it was executed was awful.

I don't usually rant like this, but this was beyond terrible, it even surpasses episode 12. I didn't think the ToP could be this bad before, but it just keeps proving me wrong. I fear for the finale.

This was no rant man, but a good well done analysis! I enjoy participating on this forum to read posts like this!

I agree with all you've just said!

I think Dragonball just isn't for you anymore.

No intend to offend but that's a stupid argument man, also I sometimes see you here wanting quit the series for trivial things

[precita]

It seems you didn't actually read my post. Yes, Vegeta is much stronger now. So is his attack. Unless you try to convince me that Vegeta used the same kind of power he used against Boo, then that's a poor excuse.

He obviously used much more power but this time saved some energy left so he wouldn't completely die and turn to stone like in the Boo arc. Back then he completely depleted himself because he wanted to make sure Boo was eradicated. Here he knew he only had to blow Toppo out of the ring.

[ZenkaiBoosts]

VEGETA-SAMA!!!!

I loved this episode! This is one of my favorites of the entire arc thus far! Vegeta has shown so much development! That final explosion was amazing! He showed Toppo what for.

And Jiren...holy cow is he terrifying. First he completely disses Toppo then he's like "watch this."

17 is probably going next week. But man, Jiren looks like he's done playing around. I'm so hyped!

Agreed

Amazing episode!

Vegeta fans can never complain again. Super just wrapped up Vegeta's character arc as great as possible. Now it's time for Vegeta to go. Goodbye to the Saiyan prince Vegeta. You couldnt have asked for better.

Now it's all about the Saiyan prodigy Goku who went from a low class peasent to 1 of the greatest warriors in the multiverse. The badass fearless kind hearted Goku who rose above it all and superceeded "class levels". Goku San, the real best character IMO, and the main character of all Dragon Ball.

Remember Jiren was pissed off at the end of episode 126. Jiren is going to have to clean house in episode 127 and eliminate both Vegeta and 17. And that would be the best way to showcase Jiren too, as we enter the final showdown between Goku vs Jiren 1 vs 1. Stack the odds against Goku so Goku can surprise us when he overcomes them.

I think episode 128 starts the Goku vs Jiren mini-mini-arc.

Anyway, Vegeta's sacrafice to eliminate god of destruction of Toppo was definently one of the greatest moments in Super

Gohan and Piccole tag teaming umiverse 6 namekians while Goku eliminates universe 2, Team beam finish of Aniraza, Goku utilising strategy against Jiren in episode 124, and the whole Goku vs Kefla mini-arc are still easily some of the best for me too

Good post

[Doctor.]

He obviously used much more power but this time saved some energy left so he wouldn't completely die and turn to stone like in the Boo arc. Back then he completely depleted himself because he wanted to make sure Boo was eradicated. Here he knew he only had to blow Toppo out of the ring.

Sure, but that's not the excuse they used. They just said Vegeta's much stronger now so he was able to survive his own attack. Which is stupid because his attack is also much stronger. What you're saying is headcanon. Believable explanation, I'll give you that, but one that the show doesn't go through the effort of explaining.

[majinwarman]

I personally like this episode. I thought the Vegeta using the Final Explosion was really cool. I have give props to Yamamuro's storyboard during the second half of the episode. He really proved me wrong. I like that Vegeta won't give up his motivations and used to push him further. I do think that Toppo did spam a bit in this episode. I do believe that this episode looked fine to me. I don't understand the hate for this episode. I did like how Jiren threw Toppo under the bus for losing. I believe that next episode will have 17 out and Jiem kicking butt.
Rating: 7 out of 10

[TheOtherDude]

I think Dragonball just isn't for you anymore.

This excuse that "t-that's just how Dragon Ball is" doesn't work. Dragon Ball was never this dumb, inconsistent or thoughtless.

I feel some of the statements you make. To be honest, I think it’s because Toei is taking the lead in the series instead of them having a manga to follow.

[Lord Beerus]

I think Dragonball just isn't for you anymore.

This excuse that "t-that's just how Dragon Ball is" doesn't work. Dragon Ball was never this dumb, inconsistent or thoughtless.

I'm not sure if I can agree with that. I'm nearly done rewatching and reading all of Dragon Ball and Z (both and manga) and I can tell you right now that it has a lot of dumb, inconsistent or thoughtless shit in it that in some aspects in way worse than what Super doing or has already done.

[jeffbr92]

I'm nearly done rewatching and reading all of Dragon Ball and Z (both and manga) and I can tell you right now that it has a lot of dumb, inconsistent or thoughtless shit in it that in some aspects in way worse than what Super doing or has already done.

Would you like to elaborate?

[Lord Beerus]

I'm nearly done rewatching and reading all of Dragon Ball and Z (both and manga) and I can tell you right now that it has a lot of dumb, inconsistent or thoughtless shit in it that in some aspects in way worse than what Super doing or has already done.

Would you like to elaborate?

I'll save that for another thread.

[CriticalThinker]

If I were a bigger fan of Vegeta I probably would have loved this episode but alas I am not. Yet on the contrary to this I thought the over all episode was fine. Though as a fan of Toppo I am disappointed that he got knocked out without a single elimination. I just wish they would have used him more throughout the tournament, well I guess he did show up sorta often but most of those scenes amounted to nothing. I think my biggest issue this episode was Freeza getting up so quickly only to get knocked out again, that was dumb to me and they should have just left him unconscious in the first place. Also another thing is that I'm not a fan of is Vegeta apparently using up all his power this episode only to be using his new blue form again in the next episode. That though is an issue that's been pretty bad throughout the tournament mainly with Goku. Oh well not a bad episode but I won't lie that I am feeling a tad bit salty right now.

[Doctor.]

I think Dragonball just isn't for you anymore.

This excuse that "t-that's just how Dragon Ball is" doesn't work. Dragon Ball was never this dumb, inconsistent or thoughtless.

I'm not sure if I can agree with that. I'm nearly done rewatching and reading all of Dragon Ball and Z (both and manga) and I can tell you right now that it has a lot of dumb, inconsistent or thoughtless shit in it that in some aspects in way worse than what Super doing or has already done.

Yes, Dragon Ball has plenty of dumb shit. But its dumb shit goes somewhere. Its plot points aren't presented one episode or chapter and dropped immediately in the next one. It's not written in a way that places the spectacle above ALL logic. It follows a formula but it doesn't rehash the same moments over and over and over again.

[Kaiosama]

This...was...awful. The writing is probably some of the worst we've seen in this series. Yeah, let's keep giving Vegeta these BS pride power-ups from speeches. Where the hell where these in Z or early Super? Way to build up Toppo and make him look unstoppable and menacing and then have him job HARD to Vegeta. And Vegeta's Final Explosion isn't so 'Final' is it? I'm sorry this episode was so biased towards Vegeta that it was sickening. Hopefully Jiren can knock him and the others out so we can get to the real fight with UI Goku and Jiren.

They should have buffed Frieza instead. It would have been so much more interesting than Vegeta's bland character. Ugh...

[Bullza]

It was ok, not nearly as good as last week. Kinds worried that things will get rushed a bit from now on. I wasn't expecting Toppo to go out in this episode.