Super Episode 126 (4 February 2018)

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Re: Super Episode 126 (4 February 2018)

Post by dnavenom » Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:36 am

You know Goku has two sons :) right? Remind me where was he when they grew up? Let me give you some hints:
A) dead - having fun in the afterlife
B) on another planet - learning new techniques
C)working the field while secretly training
Was Gohan a better fighter, wile he was parented by Piccolo? Yes. Did his life in the city without a male parent made him a lazy bastard (I`m Gohan fan!) Yes. Goku trained Gohan for 1 year and he surpassed all Z warriors (Cell saga). Goku didn`t want to get resurrected after that, he decided to stay dead and have fun. Gohan lost his example and you know what became of him later. Is Goku a bad Father? Most likely so. Is Goku a bad husband? Yes. What is Goku`s motivation? Fighting. DB>DBZ>DBS no development! Same character forever. If you are not bored by this, I dunno what to say to you.

Goku made Gohan leader of the U7 team. We all knew Goku was the real leader. When did he leave Gohan decide what the team should do? Never. Did he try to help his son get some authority? He was the first to " go fight strong opponents" on his own.

Was Vegeta bad with future Trunks in the HBTChamber? He was. Was he ever bad with small Trunks? No. Did he kiss his wife :) ? Yes. That`s pretty important, otherwise the wife becomes like Chichi! Did he admit Goku was better in the end of Z? He did. Did he give up? He didn`t. Is he a better father and husband than Goku? Of course. Goten didn`t even know his father :) for some time.

What makes a human, human? Responsibilities, sacrifices, enduring the sometimes boring everyday life, family, goals, trying to better yourself wile doing everything else. Goku is a good fighter, but he`s bad in everything else that makes a human, human. Vegeta, Piccolo far better humans than him and way better characters.
Last edited by dnavenom on Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:48 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Super Episode 126 (4 February 2018)

Post by AloversGaming » Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:39 am

Amir wrote:
AloversGaming wrote:They show Vegeta all bloody in the Buu arc scene, but don't show blood in Super it's self. How does that make sense? Why is flash backs to Z episodes fine for morning viewing, but new content is a big no-no?

Either way, it made his attack look less impressive by comparison.

The directing of the scene was also vastly worse, which was the bigger problem.
Those 3 speeches were different both in content and context. It's plain wrong to say otherwise.
I don't know what you're talking about. Speeches? When did I ever mention the context of the scene? The actual footage displaying the power of the attack in Super was poorly done in comparison to the original, which made Super's version look weaker. The reasoning behind both scenes doesn't mean anything. Watch the episodes back to back on mute; 126 DBS is a massive drop in quality.

Episode 125 had much better directing, if the attack was done in last weeks episode it would have looked noticeably more impressive than it did here. Toppo's beam struggle vs. #17 was beautifully done. Vegeta's explosion was barely on par with that, let alone the rest of 125 that had Toppo's display of power on the arena seem more destructive than Vegeta's attack of 126.

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Re: Super Episode 126 (4 February 2018)

Post by ZenkaiBoosts » Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:51 am

dnavenom wrote:You know Goku has two sons :) right? Remind me where was he when they grew up? Let me give you some hints:
A) dead - having fun in the afterlife
B) on another planet - learning new techniques
C)working the field while secretly training
Was Gohan a better fighter, wile he was parented by Piccolo? Yes. Did his life in the city without a male parent made him a lazy bastard (I`m Gohan fan!) Yes. Goku trained Gohan for 1 year and he surpassed all Z warriors (Cell saga). Goku didn`t want to get resurrected after that, he decided to stay dead and have fun. Gohan lost his example and you know what became of him later. Is Goku a bad Father? Most likely so. Is Goku a bad husband? Yes. What is Goku`s motivation? Fighting. DB>DBZ>DBS no development! Same character forever. If you are not bored by this, I dunno what to say to you.

Was Vegeta bad with future Trunks in the HBTChamber? He was. Was he ever bad with small Trunks? No. Did he kiss his wife :) ? Yes. That`s pretty important, otherwise the wife becomes like Chichi! Did he admit Goku was better in the end of Z? He did. Did he give up? He didn`t. Is he a batter father and husband than Goku? Of course. Goten didn`t even know his father :) for sometime.

What makes a human, human? Responsibilities, sacrifices, enduring the sometimes boring everyday life, family, goals, trying to better yourself wile doing everything else. Goku is a good fighter, but he bad in everything else that makes a human, human. Vegeta, Piccolo far better humans than him and way better characters.
Please dont claim that you know what it means to be human with such confidence. There are people far far smarter then you who still cant answer that question. This is the arrogance of Vegeta fans. Makes sense why you idolize Vegeta after all. Vegeta is delusional in his arrogance and seems to attract that ugly trait in people, sadly.

Vegeta isn't more human then Goku. He's simply more arrogant and blood thirsty then Goku. Vegeta only trains to surpass Goku. Goku actually trains to become a martial arts master - and for the challenge, meaning Goku is much more like a real human in that situation.

I like how you are also using Goku being dead as a reason for why he was a terrible dad. I mean seriously, are you reading what you're writing? This is getting pretty insane..

If you don't think Goku loves his sons too, then you are making up your own head canon.

Look no further then eposide 125

Goku looking at his son being acknowledged by Berus in the stands, and Goku taking pride in his son for that moment.

It was the one dimensional anal angry Vegeta who yells at Goku for having that one little moment with his son.

Or in episode 120 when Goku steps in for Gohan against the Barracha robot, smacks it away, and says how he will always protect his son. That was touching..

They have shown again and again how when Goku is there he loves his sons.

You probably just missed it. I bet you only ever pay attention when Vegeta is on the screen
Last edited by ZenkaiBoosts on Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Super Episode 126 (4 February 2018)

Post by ZenkaiBoosts » Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:07 am

Here is why Goku is objectively "more human" then Vegeta - Goku shows off much more human emotion then Vegeta. Goku can laugh, play around, be humble, still be a badass. Goku objectively displays a much wider range of human emotions. Goku has a more realistic purpose for training too..To become a martial arts master and to challenge himself. Goku utilises actual fighting smarts, while Vegeta is always about brute strength. I get it, Vegeta is the contrast to Goku, but to say Vegeta is "more human" is laughable. Goku is a far superior character hence why Goku is the iconic main character and why Goku is FAR FAR more popular then Vegeta

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Re: Super Episode 126 (4 February 2018)

Post by dnavenom » Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:15 am

ZenkaiBoosts wrote:
dnavenom wrote:You know Goku has two sons :) right? Remind me where was he when they grew up? Let me give you some hints:
A) dead - having fun in the afterlife
B) on another planet - learning new techniques
C)working the field while secretly training
Was Gohan a better fighter, wile he was parented by Piccolo? Yes. Did his life in the city without a male parent made him a lazy bastard (I`m Gohan fan!) Yes. Goku trained Gohan for 1 year and he surpassed all Z warriors (Cell saga). Goku didn`t want to get resurrected after that, he decided to stay dead and have fun. Gohan lost his example and you know what became of him later. Is Goku a bad Father? Most likely so. Is Goku a bad husband? Yes. What is Goku`s motivation? Fighting. DB>DBZ>DBS no development! Same character forever. If you are not bored by this, I dunno what to say to you.

Was Vegeta bad with future Trunks in the HBTChamber? He was. Was he ever bad with small Trunks? No. Did he kiss his wife :) ? Yes. That`s pretty important, otherwise the wife becomes like Chichi! Did he admit Goku was better in the end of Z? He did. Did he give up? He didn`t. Is he a batter father and husband than Goku? Of course. Goten didn`t even know his father :) for sometime.

What makes a human, human? Responsibilities, sacrifices, enduring the sometimes boring everyday life, family, goals, trying to better yourself wile doing everything else. Goku is a good fighter, but he bad in everything else that makes a human, human. Vegeta, Piccolo far better humans than him and way better characters.
You have no right to ever claim what it means to be human. There are people FAR FAR smarter then you who still cant answer that question. This is the arrogance of Vegeta fans. Makes sense why you idolize Vegeta after all. Vegeta is delusional in his arrogance too and seems to attract that ugly trait in people.

Vegeta isn't more human then Goku. He's simply more arrogant and blood thirsty then Goku. Vegeta only trains to surpass Goku. Goku actually trains to become a martial arts master - and for the challenge, meaning Goku is much more like a real human. Therefore more human.

I like how you are also using Goku being dead as a reason for why he was a terrible dad. I mean seriously, are you reading what you're writing? This is getting pretty insane..

If you don't think Goku loves his sons too, then you are making up your own head canon like crazy. It's digging for excuses to say "Vegeta is more human"

Look no further then eposide 125

Goku looking at his son being acknowledged by Berus in the stands, and Goku taking pride in his son for that moment.

And guess what, it was the one dimensional anal angry Vegeta who yells at Goku for having that one little moment with his son.

Or in episode 120 when Goku steps in for Gohan against the Barracha robot, smacks it away, and says how he will always protect his son. That was touching..

They have shown again and again how when Goku is there he loves his sons.

But I bet you did miss it. I bet you only ever pay attention when Vegeta is on the screen
You really don`t have a family and children probably, there is no other way you could like Goku as a person. He is great fighter, but he`s personality is one of the worst in the series. Krillin, Vegeta, Piccolo, Gohan, Yamcha, Tien they are all better than Goku.

Krillin - family man, responsible, makes money, provides for his family. Gave up fighting to take care of Maron and 18.
Gohan - gave up fighting to become a scholar, but most of all a father and a husband.
Vegeta - manages to keep everything, he`s a fighter, a father and a husband. He became more subtle and more realistic in the end of Z and now in Super. He plays the tough guy, but inside. He is a family man and a man of his word. He can sacrifice his selfish desires and gain strength wile fighting for the ones he love. I don`t know when you got the idea of him being bloodthirsty. He said in the BUU arc that he has changed and he needed Babidi to make him into a bloodthirsty warrior again. Maybe you`ve missed that part. The opposite is right, he lost the thirst for blood.
Piccolo - martial artist, he is an alien so family is not how namekians go.
Yamcha - hothead, irresponsible, but has enough brain not to make children and then leave them and divorce their mother :) He know he is not that kind of a man. So he is not burdening anyone else.
Tien - make a dojo and maybe the new Goku and Krillin will train there one day. He has no time for family, so he doesn`t make one.
And we go to GOKU...single-minded and driven. He loves fighting more than anything. He loves his family, but has no idea how to take care of them. The responsibilities of everyday life are too much for him and he tries to get away from them, in every way possible. His inability to tackle normal life, puts a huge burden on his wife and family. This is why he fights so much. Without fighting, the only things he is good in, Goku would be a very bad man. Irresponsible father and husband. Always away from home.

Ou and humans can vary a lot. Being smart is not what makes you human. I`m pretty sure there are smarter and stupider people than me. It`s how life is. What makes you a good human being is how you tackle everyday life. What decision you make everyday. Not beauty,smartness or whatever subjective reason you can think of.

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Re: Super Episode 126 (4 February 2018)

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:22 am

I guess I'm just an optimist who sees the best in things first and foremost.

I had that same tingly feeling going through my body that I always get when an episode is particularly enthralling and evocative.

I LOVED THIS! Great action, great character exploration, and possibly the clearest look into who the character of Jiren is.

I feel like I'm the only person around these parts that actively enjoys how things are going.

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Re: Super Episode 126 (4 February 2018)

Post by dnavenom » Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:27 am

Ou and about the people that asked why Vegeta didn`t die after the final explosion. Well... the same reason as no one dies from the Mafuba anymore...People just got a lot stronger.

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Re: Super Episode 126 (4 February 2018)

Post by majinwarman » Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:53 am

ZenkaiBoosts wrote:
majinwarman wrote:I personally like this episode. I thought the Vegeta using the Final Explosion was really cool. I have give props to Yamamuro's storyboard during the second half of the episode. He really proved me wrong. I like that Vegeta won't give up his motivations and used to push him further. I do think that Toppo did spam a bit in this episode. I do believe that this episode looked fine to me. I don't understand the hate for this episode. I did like how Jiren threw Toppo under the bus for losing. I believe that next episode will have 17 out and Jiem kicking butt.
Rating: 7 out of 10
Vegeta is definently going out too. That was Vegeta's farewell epic moment. It only makes logical sense for Jiren to clean house in episode 127 and get miltiple eliminations to showcase just how great and powerful Jiren is.

And yeah, I remember in episode 125, I thought it was awesome how Jiren seemed to be very disappointed with Toppo, that Toppo abandoned all his morals and justice to get the destructive powers he needed to escape his final minute. As if Toppo let the dark force consume him so he could live.

I wish they would've played more off that. In with you in that.

We know Jiren is Dragon Ball's version of Superman and will never abandon his sense of justice and morals. It would've been awesome to see Jiren have to turn against Toppo. I mean they made Toppo in episode 125 seem like a legit terrifying scary evil mother fu@ker lol.

But they need to end the show in March so yeah some things were obviously rushed

When Super comes back there will no longer be time constraints. I hope they take the time to flesh everything out when it returns
I agree with all of your points here!
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Re: Super Episode 126 (4 February 2018)

Post by Olympian » Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:54 am

dnavenom wrote:
Krillin - family man, responsible, makes money, provides for his family. Gave up fighting to take care of Maron and 18.
Gohan - gave up fighting to become a scholar, but most of all a father and a husband.
Vegeta - manages to keep everything, he`s a fighter, a father and a husband. He became more subtle and more realistic in the end of Z and now in Super. He plays the tough guy, but inside. He is a family man and a man of his word. He can sacrifice his selfish desires and gain strength wile fighting for the ones he love. I don`t know when you got the idea of him being bloodthirsty. He said in the BUU arc that he has changed and he needed Babidi to make him into a bloodthirsty warrior again. Maybe you`ve missed that part. The opposite is right, he lost the thirst for blood.
Piccolo - martial artist, he is an alien so family is not how namekians go.
Yamcha - hothead, irresponsible, but has enough brain not to make children and then leave them and divorce their mother :) He know he is not that kind of a man. So he is not burdening anyone else.
Tien - make a dojo and maybe the new Goku and Krillin will train there one day. He has no time for family, so he doesn`t make one.
And we go to GOKU...single-minded and driven. He loves fighting more than anything. He loves his family, but has no idea how to take care of them. The responsibilities of everyday life are too much for him and he tries to get away from them, in every way possible. His inability to tackle normal life, puts a huge burden on his wife and family. This is why he fights so much. Without fighting, the only things he is good in, Goku would be a very bad man. Irresponsible father and husband. Always away from home.

Ou and humans can vary a lot. Being smart is not what makes you human. I`m pretty sure there are smarter and stupider people than me. It`s how life is. What makes you a good human being is how you tackle everyday life. What decision you make everyday. Not beauty,smartness or whatever subjective reason you can think of.
Couldn`t help notice you painted Vegeta so well only to shit on Goku and half shit on Yamcha. Especially when you have Vegeta giving in exactly to his pride (ah the good ol years) just recently at the TOP..

A real human bean, sir.
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Yamcha + Roshi = Yamoshi

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Re: Super Episode 126 (4 February 2018)

Post by LightBing » Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:10 am

dnavenom wrote:Ou and about the people that asked why Vegeta didn`t die after the final explosion. Well... the same reason as no one dies from the Mafuba anymore...People just got a lot stronger.
The thing is Vegeta's attack is the release of all your energy until you turn to dust, there's no getting stronger to survive the technique it's literal suicide.
You can't excuse it like the Mãfuba or the Kaioken as something that had restrictions to be overcame.

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Re: Super Episode 126 (4 February 2018)

Post by Olympian » Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:12 am

Didn`t the others especulate it was because of his SSB body?

A half excuse is better than none.
Ki Breaker wrote:

Yamcha + Roshi = Yamoshi

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Re: Super Episode 126 (4 February 2018)

Post by dnavenom » Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:16 am

I did some injustice to Goku, I admit it. Honestly he was a great person until the end of the Cell Saga. He looked like a good father of Gohan and they seemed to get along pretty nice, back in the Raditz saga. He really looked invested. In the Cell saga he tried to teach Gohan all he knows and Gohan really became a better version of his father back than. If DBZ ended there. Goku would have been a lot better human than any of the other characters. But it didn`t! The BUU arc and DBS really destroyed Goku in regard to his personality. Not willing to get resurrected by Porunga after Cell was a bad choice. The whole unwilling farmer thing, the not kissing his wife and everything else in Super, made him look like a dik. And that`s what people don`t get.

Vegeta started as a dik and became better. He evolved. He is a good example!
Goku started better and is now a dik. He devolved. Goku is a worst human in super, compared to what he was back in the Raditz/Namek sagas. It`s like he got back to his DB days in the body of an adult man.

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Re: Super Episode 126 (4 February 2018)

Post by dnavenom » Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:18 am

LightBing wrote:
dnavenom wrote:Ou and about the people that asked why Vegeta didn`t die after the final explosion. Well... the same reason as no one dies from the Mafuba anymore...People just got a lot stronger.
The thing is Vegeta's attack is the release of all your energy until you turn to dust, there's no getting stronger to survive the technique it's literal suicide.
You can't excuse it like the Mãfuba or the Kaioken as something that had restrictions to be overcame.
Well he didn`t release all energy it`s simple, plus perfected Ki control. Master Roshi doesn`t have a perfect Ki control and he did 3 Mafubas. What is there not to understand?

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Re: Super Episode 126 (4 February 2018)

Post by Olympian » Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:26 am

I don`t disagree with the general concept, Vegeta was singlehandy handled the most development out of the entire cast but you need to point out things like what he did as Majin Vegeta out of his own choice and even recent stuff. Those events and character moments still happened.

My dislike for the Goku in the anime Super is documented enough. I don`t find him terrible but it is like his noble qualities haven`t been highligted enough to contrast with his thirst for a fight, no matter what.

Your mention of Yamcha as irresponsible tho I shall not let pass (insert Gandalf smiley here) he was never shown as particularly irresponsible in the Manga. Guy wanted to marry and had a occupation years before anyone else did, including helping others (like farming wih Tien, going by Toryama`s quips at interviews). This is simply you talking a jab at the whole Yamcha/Bulma thing, I`m aware :twisted: but just Saiyan.
Ki Breaker wrote:

Yamcha + Roshi = Yamoshi

Coincidence? I think not

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Re: Super Episode 126 (4 February 2018)

Post by TheSaiyanGod » Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:33 am

I understand the complaint from some members about this episode.
Really the fight between Vegeta and Toppo was a bit rushed, mainly because it only started in the middle of the episode.
It was not necessary for Toppo to face 17 for so long.

But I can not understand the complaint from members about the fact that Vegeta does not have to shine. He finally got a great victory, had a moment of prominence and surpassed a guy who has the same level of Hakaishins.
What's the matter with that?

In EP 123, many complain that Vegeta's new transformation was useless, because the most she could do was face Jiren for a while.
Now, she finally had a purpose, which was to overcome the power of Toppo (who was superior to almost all the warriors in the arena). And I did not see anyone else talking about it.

They complained that Vegeta had not thought of his family before.
Now, this happened. Why no one else is pointing this as a positive point?

And the way his personality was shown in that episode was a very good thing, much better than at the beginning of the tournament.
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Re: Super Episode 126 (4 February 2018)

Post by Doctor. » Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:36 am

dnavenom wrote:A) dead - having fun in the afterlife
You're twisting it hard, aren't you? He sacrificed himself for his son both times.
dnavenom wrote:B) on another planet - learning new techniques
A technique that would have let him slice Freeza if Trunks didn't interfere and saved the Earth against Cell.
dnavenom wrote:C)working the field while secretly training
Working and providing money to his family is now a bad thing, I guess.
dnavenom wrote:Goku started better and is now a dik. He devolved.
Going from a good person to a bad person isn't character regression. It's just a different way a character can be developed.

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Re: Super Episode 126 (4 February 2018)

Post by dnavenom » Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:43 am

Olympian wrote:I don`t disagree with the general concept, Vegeta was singlehandy handled the most development out of the entire cast but you need to point out things like what he did as Majin Vegeta out of his own choice and even recent stuff. Those events and character moments still happened.

My dislike for the Goku in the anime Super is documented enough. I don`t find him terrible but it is like his noble qualities haven`t been highligted enough to contrast with his thirst for a fight, no matter what.

Your mention of Yamcha as irresponsible tho I shall not let pass (insert Gandalf smiley here) he was never shown as particularly irresponsible in the Manga. Guy wanted to marry and had a occupation years before anyone else did, including helping others (like farming wih Tien, going by Toryama`s quips at interviews). This is simply you talking a jab at the whole Yamcha/Bulma thing, I`m aware :twisted: but just Saiyan.
I stand corrected :) I like Yamcha actually, despite everything. When Bulma left him for Vegeta, it was like she left me. That said, there was a time I honestly hated Vegeta. It was when he sacrificed hymself and admited that Goku was the better fighetr, that I started to like him. Before that point he was just a spoiled brat!

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Re: Super Episode 126 (4 February 2018)

Post by LightBing » Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:44 am

dnavenom wrote:
LightBing wrote:
dnavenom wrote:Ou and about the people that asked why Vegeta didn`t die after the final explosion. Well... the same reason as no one dies from the Mafuba anymore...People just got a lot stronger.
The thing is Vegeta's attack is the release of all your energy until you turn to dust, there's no getting stronger to survive the technique it's literal suicide.
You can't excuse it like the Mãfuba or the Kaioken as something that had restrictions to be overcame.
Well he didn`t release all energy it`s simple, plus perfected Ki control. Master Roshi doesn`t have a perfect Ki control and he did 3 Mafubas. What is there not to understand?
If he didn't release all his energy then this isn't a Final Explosion. It's another type of attack, used by Vegeta in the Saiyan Arc, used by Piccolo in the 23rd TB, used by Majin Boo against Majin Vegeta... Also what the hell is perfect Ki and does it have to do with this or the Mafubas, it's not mentioned at all.

If people read the Boo Arc they'll understand that this attack is a suicide by concept, if you drain a human of it's blood they die, likewise in Dragon Ball if you drain a human of their Ki they are goners. That's the problem they decided to grab that use it for nostalgia and emotional weight, discarding it in the end because Vegeta was supposed to survive. Complete disregard for the meaning of such an attack and the original scene.

Honestly if people read the manga/watched the anime of said scene, they would know why this explanation is completely bogus. That's what I don't understand.

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Re: Super Episode 126 (4 February 2018)

Post by Xehanort » Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:44 am

I have to agree with the "this episode was pretty bad" side of the debate.

Most glaring problem is the complete waste of GoD Toppo. He beat the living shit out of Frieza, yet the dude still gets up and looks just like he did after the Hakai he survived against? And somewhat ready to get back in the fight? Well that was bullshit, and totally undermined what Toppo did last week. And Toppo was a complete dumbass, so his plan to eliminate 17 was just chase him and shoot random ki blasts and hakais...which he knows 17 can dodge efficiently? Why didn't he just outspeed him and punched him out of the ring? I'm sure he's faster and much stronger than 17, specially with his GoD power.

I'm fine with the way he was eliminated actually, there's been discussion in this thread about if whether Vegeta should've died or not but I didn't put much thought into it because I was rather satisfied with the choice of move and the motivation behind it...but it will be completely ruined when in the next episode HE HAS HIS FULL POWER ALREADY! I know the precedent was established with Goku after UI, but this one is just way too fucking stupid like Artorias pointed out. I just wasn't that negative towards the immediate consequence, I guess...

Jiren badmouthing Toppo was totally unnexpected. Like, what the hell man? Sure the dude did basically nothing but that's the writters fault, not his :P

I will say this, Jiren being the only one left and finally revealing his true power is sending my hype levels into overdrive! Please Super, do NOT screw this up :x
"I think it's only fair that I should warn you guys. You dont stand a chance against me.", Future Trunks

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Re: Super Episode 126 (4 February 2018)

Post by t0ffe3m4n » Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:46 am

Was an 'ok' episode really. Vegeta's final explosion was cool and some of the art/animation at times was decent. Let down by very 'meh' writing & story boarding though overall. It certainly wasn't on the level of the week previous.

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