Super Episode 127 (11 February 2018)

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Re: Super Episode 127 (11 February 2018)

Post by SHINOBI-03 » Sun Feb 11, 2018 8:47 am

A bit late for Jiren's backstory. And even then, it's nothing impressive.
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Re: Super Episode 127 (11 February 2018)

Post by ZenkaiBoosts » Sun Feb 11, 2018 8:48 am

Xehanort wrote:
JazzMazz wrote:What build-up?

I can safetly say that the anime version of Jiren has had no set-up to any mystery relating to his character whatso-ever, we the audience, and the characters, have had no reason to want to learn anything about Jiren.

So again I ask, what build-up? Also, how can they be any build-up to a reveal, if you haven't even set up the fact their is going to be a reveal?
The buildup began after Goku's fight with Toppo, where he stated there was someone even stronger than him which left Goku and the viewers interested. The he appeared in the World of Void, and the sheer energy left Goku and Vegeta (the two most powerfull warriors in all universes) shocked. Then Goku went to say hello to Jiren, and he told him to piss off in the most intimidating of ways. Then they teased at a fight between him and Goku everyone in awhile during the tournament. Then we see Jiren eliminating Maji Kayo (is that his name?) with just the updraft of his fist! Which left Goku visibly terrified. Then 109-110 happened, while Belmod and U11 Supreme Kai were describing him as such a monster, then he eliminated Hit (who was arguably stronger than Vegeta at that point) with relative ease and the following events after that...

I mean you can say that did not leave you interested, and that's fine, but don't tell me there was no build up to his character.
This is a great post. There was definently a lot of build up for Jiren, his strength, and the mysterious nature about him.

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Re: Super Episode 127 (11 February 2018)

Post by ZenkaiBoosts » Sun Feb 11, 2018 8:50 am

Saturnine wrote:
ZenkaiBoosts wrote:
Saturnine wrote: As for base Vegeta hanging in against Jiren, that's sooo fucking Toei... They've been doing this sort of shit since forever. I really hate it, though at least here we have the justification of not being allowed to kill other competitors, so at least we can suspend our disbelief and think Jiren is suppressing himself.
Thats Toriyama's outline/transcript

Where does this monconception that Toriyama isnt involved in the anime come from?

And even when Toei wants to change something they always ask for Toriyama's approval. Everything you see was either from Toriyama's transcripts or approved by Toriyama
Toriyama doesn't do that. In his manga, you're twice as weak as your foe, you are immediately defeated. He would never write base Vegeta hanging in there against Jiren.
DiegoBrando wrote: You're talking as if Toriyamas involvement and approval is a positive...
It is. If Toriyama's directly involved, power levels at least matter. If he's not, we get THIS. And stuff like Cooler coming back from Hell with his body intact, as he did in GT. Lol.
Thats headcanon and assumptions

We know for a FACT that Toriyama gives outlines and tramscripts for the anime, and that all things get approved by Toriyama.
Last edited by ZenkaiBoosts on Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Super Episode 127 (11 February 2018)

Post by Cypher » Sun Feb 11, 2018 8:54 am

The only part I had doubts about was where Jiren, alongside his master and say thirty other students, faces off against the 'evildoer' and most of them (including the master, who's presumably the strongest) get obliterated. Jiren then wants to have another go. The, like, eight remaining students say 'hell no, we just got demolished when there were about four times as many of us, are you nuts?' but it's made out that Jiren is a noble, valiant hero and his former comrades are disgraceful gutless pussies, rather than Jiren being an insane alien person and his former comrades just, you know, wanting NOT to be massacred when there's no reason to hope for victory.

Unless it's more like 'Jiren suggests they train for ten years then try again, but none of the others can be bothered' (I couldn't really tell from the episode), that part just kind of raised my eyebrows.

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Re: Super Episode 127 (11 February 2018)

Post by ZenkaiBoosts » Sun Feb 11, 2018 8:55 am

Kanassa wrote:
ZenkaiBoosts wrote: Only one side seems to have this intolerant, harmful attitude, and it isnt the people who like Super. This is across the internet. I guess its internet culture now a days. I myself would rather focus on positivity then negativity
Hey, I can be a pretty intolerant, spiteful bastard when someone disses my cartoons
Its just funny when people complain about too many positive opinions and that their criticism is always silenced, when its usually the opposite. Detractors of Super get way too serious. As you said Its a cartoon. Does it really matter that people enjoy Super and are willing to ignore some flaws to enjoy it? Its not like Super is legit awful or anything. Its popular for a reason

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Re: Super Episode 127 (11 February 2018)

Post by ekrolo2 » Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:07 am

Oh great, we're gonna get Vegeta's fourth "Muh pride, muh nakama!" thing in a row next episode. I think anyone with a tenth of a brain cell could figure out that Vegeta does, in fact, give a fuck about other people when he committed suicide to try and kill Fat Boo, knowing he was probably gonna get erased and reincarnated as something else afterward.

I don't need shittier versions of the already bad "MUH BULMA!" crap from BoG done FOUR TIMES in a row to repeat that Vegeta, does, in fact, care about others now.
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Re: Super Episode 127 (11 February 2018)

Post by OverHeaven » Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:11 am

If they indeed have some future plans for that murderer, I also have a feeling Belmoud is somehow related to it. That kind of twist isn't that rare.

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Re: Super Episode 127 (11 February 2018)

Post by Saturnine » Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:15 am

ZenkaiBoosts wrote:
We know for a FACT that Toriyama gives outlines and tramscripts for the anime, and that all things get approved by Toriyama.
I don't think you know what "rough plot outlines" mean.

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Re: Super Episode 127 (11 February 2018)

Post by Onibaku » Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:19 am

ZenkaiBoosts wrote:
Onibaku wrote:
ZenkaiBoosts wrote: Its going to be so satisfying when Vegeta finally gets eliminated next week
Right? Its gonna be such a sight
I've been waiting for it. Vegeta long over stayed his worth and welcome. It was like enough is enough lol. Now its on to UI perfect Goku vs Jiren 1 v 1 baby. So pumped and cant wait. Have you read the spoilers for episode 128 and 129? Gonna be so epic. 128 hints at some awesome development for Goku before transforming in episode 129 (or maybe it happens end of 128)
Nah I haven't. But yeah it's time for that UI Goku vs Jiren. What happens to Frieza tho? This episode made me feel kinda bad for him

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Re: Super Episode 127 (11 February 2018)

Post by ZenkaiBoosts » Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:22 am

Onibaku wrote:
ZenkaiBoosts wrote:
Onibaku wrote: Right? Its gonna be such a sight
I've been waiting for it. Vegeta long over stayed his worth and welcome. It was like enough is enough lol. Now its on to UI perfect Goku vs Jiren 1 v 1 baby. So pumped and cant wait. Have you read the spoilers for episode 128 and 129? Gonna be so epic. 128 hints at some awesome development for Goku before transforming in episode 129 (or maybe it happens end of 128)
Nah I haven't. But yeah it's time for that UI Goku vs Jiren. What happens to Frieza tho? This episode made me feel kinda bad for him
They are purposely leaving the where abouts of Frieza unkown. Something is going to happen. Do you want to know about the spoilers for 128 and 129?

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Re: Super Episode 127 (11 February 2018)

Post by VegettoEX » Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:29 am

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Re: Super Episode 127 (11 February 2018)

Post by ZenkaiBoosts » Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:30 am

Saturnine wrote:
ZenkaiBoosts wrote:
Saturnine wrote: As for base Vegeta hanging in against Jiren, that's sooo fucking Toei... They've been doing this sort of shit since forever. I really hate it, though at least here we have the justification of not being allowed to kill other competitors, so at least we can suspend our disbelief and think Jiren is suppressing himself.
Thats Toriyama's outline/transcript

Where does this monconception that Toriyama isnt involved in the anime come from?

And even when Toei wants to change something they always ask for Toriyama's approval. Everything you see was either from Toriyama's transcripts or approved by Toriyama
Toriyama doesn't do that. In his manga, you're twice as weak as your foe, you are immediately defeated. He would never write base Vegeta hanging in there against Jiren.
DiegoBrando wrote: You're talking as if Toriyamas involvement and approval is a positive...
It is. If Toriyama's directly involved, power levels at least matter. If he's not, we get THIS. And stuff like Cooler coming back from Hell with his body intact, as he did in GT. Lol.
The reason why I feel Toriyama chose to keep Vegeta in base form is to really showcase how outmatched Vegeta is and that despite how outmatched Vegeta is, Vegeta keeps coming at Jiren with resiliency until the very end.

Its to further showcase Vegeta's durability, will, and resiliency.

Vegeta in base form isnt going to be competitive lol.

Plus people want more sound logic in Super, its only logical Vegeta can only stay in base form now. Hes used up every ounce of energy he has. You want him to just start magically powering up to SSB again. People hated that Vegeta did that in this episode after 126. 128 is fixing that. Its been Vegeta's time to go for a while. They are giving Vegeta 2 epic farewells now. Its like enough is enough. Its finally time to be all about Goku now
Last edited by ZenkaiBoosts on Sun Feb 11, 2018 10:07 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Super Episode 127 (11 February 2018)

Post by JazzMazz » Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:30 am

ZenkaiBoosts wrote:
Xehanort wrote:
JazzMazz wrote:What build-up?

I can safetly say that the anime version of Jiren has had no set-up to any mystery relating to his character whatso-ever, we the audience, and the characters, have had no reason to want to learn anything about Jiren.

So again I ask, what build-up? Also, how can they be any build-up to a reveal, if you haven't even set up the fact their is going to be a reveal?
The buildup began after Goku's fight with Toppo, where he stated there was someone even stronger than him which left Goku and the viewers interested. The he appeared in the World of Void, and the sheer energy left Goku and Vegeta (the two most powerfull warriors in all universes) shocked. Then Goku went to say hello to Jiren, and he told him to piss off in the most intimidating of ways. Then they teased at a fight between him and Goku everyone in awhile during the tournament. Then we see Jiren eliminating Maji Kayo (is that his name?) with just the updraft of his fist! Which left Goku visibly terrified. Then 109-110 happened, while Belmod and U11 Supreme Kai were describing him as such a monster, then he eliminated Hit (who was arguably stronger than Vegeta at that point) with relative ease and the following events after that...

I mean you can say that did not leave you interested, and that's fine, but don't tell me there was no build up to his character.
This is a great post. There was definently a lot of build up for Jiren, his strength, and the mysterious nature about him.
How does build-up make him mysterious, when we already know the mystery around Jiren is that his really strong?

When Freeza was being built up on Namek, they built him up as being really strong, same goes for Jiren. However, how does this build-up actually establish a mystery around say Jiren's motivations or Jirens backstory, why should we care about those things? The anime doesn't provide a set-up for the audience to learn more about Jiren's character other than the fact his really strong.

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Re: Super Episode 127 (11 February 2018)

Post by dnavenom » Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:37 am

Of course super is popular! You know how many people watch the show, just to get some memories back from DBZ? Or maybe wish for a character they liked, to develop in some way and he doesn`t? I`ve watched the show "life" for the last 3 years, hoping something emotionally moving will happen and they`ll animate it the right way. That the new form will be a manifestation of some inner struggle, like it was in DBZ! TOEI and Toriyama know this. Why do you think we see so much homages and throwbacks to DBZ? Cause we are not moved by anything in DBS, they play on the nostalgia card, cause that`s all they got. Now the show is over, or almost over. What will be remembered from it? Any particular moment, that will stay in our minds that would overwrite the DBZ`s moments and the movies? For me there were a few special moments:
1. Goku Kaoiken vs HIT
2. Trunks going Rage mode for the first time
3. Goku vs Jiren - the special 109-110( Although UI and Royal Blue were achieved in a horrible manner) That UI is such an APull, he`s got it since Dragon ball.
But they`ll never be as powerful as Goku`s first SSJ transformation on Namek, Vegeta`s Majin fight with Goku, Gohan`s rage moments, Broly`s movies and so on. Hell Gohan VS Garlic was more intense, than what we get now.

Everything was hurried up. Stretched meaningless fights and no story to back them up. It`s like a game where you don`t care about the story, but just the action. I`m starting to think that DBS was just a way to promote the upcoming games from the franchise. I see people that complain about filler episodes or moments there is no action. It`s those filler episode full with talk and normal stuff that give you the story behind a fight. And even the few we had were executed badly. I really hoped for more. Much more.

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Re: Super Episode 127 (11 February 2018)

Post by Onibaku » Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:44 am

ZenkaiBoosts wrote:
Onibaku wrote:
ZenkaiBoosts wrote: I've been waiting for it. Vegeta long over stayed his worth and welcome. It was like enough is enough lol. Now its on to UI perfect Goku vs Jiren 1 v 1 baby. So pumped and cant wait. Have you read the spoilers for episode 128 and 129? Gonna be so epic. 128 hints at some awesome development for Goku before transforming in episode 129 (or maybe it happens end of 128)
Nah I haven't. But yeah it's time for that UI Goku vs Jiren. What happens to Frieza tho? This episode made me feel kinda bad for him
They are purposely leaving the where abouts of Frieza unkown. Something is going to happen. Do you want to know about the spoilers for 128 and 129?
Thanks man but nah, not the type to spoil myself deliberately. Wanna be surprised.

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Re: Super Episode 127 (11 February 2018)

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:44 am

I LOVED this episode!

The action was intense and flowed well, and 17 cements his status as the one true MVP in existence. Rest in peace, friend. At least until the Dragon Balls can wish you back.

Also, I'm in the minority around here, but I personally think Jiren's backstory works. His "lack of personality" is specifically because he abandoned such useless traits in the pursuit of power, the power to make your own justice. He's deeply flawed in this regard, which makes his condescension of Toppo all the more potent. The fact that 17 jabs at this is icing on the cake, for me.

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Re: Super Episode 127 (11 February 2018)

Post by ZenkaiBoosts » Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:46 am

Saturnine wrote:
ZenkaiBoosts wrote:
We know for a FACT that Toriyama gives outlines and tramscripts for the anime, and that all things get approved by Toriyama.
I don't think you know what "rough plot outlines" mean.
I think there would be definitive outlines for a huge moment like Vegeta's elimination and the ending etc

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Re: Super Episode 127 (11 February 2018)

Post by ZenkaiBoosts » Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:48 am

Onibaku wrote:
ZenkaiBoosts wrote:
Onibaku wrote: Nah I haven't. But yeah it's time for that UI Goku vs Jiren. What happens to Frieza tho? This episode made me feel kinda bad for him
They are purposely leaving the where abouts of Frieza unkown. Something is going to happen. Do you want to know about the spoilers for 128 and 129?
Thanks man but nah, not the type to spoil myself deliberately. Wanna be surprised.
I wish I was never spoiled too. It would be amazing to witness all that as a suprise without knowing. But I couldnt help myself lol. Lets jusy say you are in for a real treat. Episode 128 is next week. So keep trying to ignore spoilers for as long as possible. You are almost there

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Re: Super Episode 127 (11 February 2018)

Post by Onibaku » Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:50 am

ZenkaiBoosts wrote:
Onibaku wrote:
ZenkaiBoosts wrote: They are purposely leaving the where abouts of Frieza unkown. Something is going to happen. Do you want to know about the spoilers for 128 and 129?
Thanks man but nah, not the type to spoil myself deliberately. Wanna be surprised.
I wish I was never spoiled too. It would be amazing to witness all that as a suprise without knowing. But I couldnt help myself lol. Lets jusy say you are in for a real treat. Episode 128 is next week. So keep trying to ignore spoilers for as long as possible. You are almost there
LOL I guess. Not visiting this site daily helps too.

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Re: Super Episode 127 (11 February 2018)

Post by ZenkaiBoosts » Sun Feb 11, 2018 9:51 am

PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote:I LOVED this episode!

The action was intense and flowed well, and 17 cements his status as the one true MVP in existence. Rest in peace, friend. At least until the Dragon Balls can wish you back.

Also, I'm in the minority around here, but I personally think Jiren's backstory works. His "lack of personality" is specifically because he abandoned such useless traits in the pursuit of power, the power to make your own justice. He's deeply flawed in this regard, which makes his condescension of Toppo all the more potent. The fact that 17 jabs at this is icing on the cake, for me.
I've been watching reaction videos. And after reading this thread, it came as a genuine suprise to me to see how many loved Jiren's backstory.

I also personally loved Jiren's backstory but I thought I was simply in the minority

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