Super Episode 128 (18 February 2018)

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ZenkaiBoosts
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Re: Super Episode 128 (18 February 2018)

Post by ZenkaiBoosts » Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:16 am

Geekdom did a FANTASTIC review of episode 128

I encourage everyone to go watch it.

He goes in-depth about the themes explored. He really gives this episode the attention and real discussion it deserved


ps

Toshio is a beast at writing emotional episodes

They need to give all the emotional episodes to Toshio

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Re: Super Episode 128 (18 February 2018)

Post by SsjCookie » Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:41 am

Vegeta_Sama wrote:
SsjCookie wrote: Now I'm actually hoping Goku loses against Jiren to make this arc at least a bit more interesting story wise.
There's absolutely nothing interesting about Goku losing AGAIN in Super. We saw that a billion times already, I'm getting sick of it by now: Beerus, Golden Frieza, Frost, Hit, Zamasu etc. Goku has just been a punching bag for everyone in this series. The only characters he managed to defeat are Botamo, and Copy Vegeta. Jiren winning would be the most anticlimactic thing that could ever happened after all of this buildup for Ultra Instinct.

I find absolutely nothing interesting about Goku gaining another transformation (again) and therefore winning the tournament.(again)
It would be so boorishly predictable.
Goku, saviour and ultimate paragon of all the universes. :yawn:
We have seen that a billion times before.

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Re: Super Episode 128 (18 February 2018)

Post by jeffbr92 » Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:43 am

ZenkaiBoosts wrote:
amuroray wrote:
TheSaiyanGod wrote:What was he purpose of this episode? What was its usefulness in the plot?

Goku awaken the UI? Well, he could do it on EP 129 himself.

Half of the EP was Vegeta being beaten in base form. Jiren could have defeated him with a punch.

The flashbacks were not as motivational as they should be. This whole story of promise should have propelled him far more than what was shown.
It could just happen to the same thing that happened against Toppo.
Beerus did not tell Vegeta anything he had not said to all the U7 warriors.

Vegeta had a good participation in the tournament, but a pathetic and disappointing farewell
Inconsistency's mate. A tiny bit of energy from a depleted Vegeta turned goku ssjb. Dont expect anything from this show especially a good farewell to a character.

I'm legitimately surprised at how bad this show is.
One tiny inconsistency doesn't make the whole show bad nor did it make this episode bad.
Yes, but you talk like this was the only one on Super, but it's not. We've got several of these.
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Re: Super Episode 128 (18 February 2018)

Post by Zillamon51 » Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:49 am

They only have a couple episodes left, and they're wasting time with Vegeta's motivations (which has already been covered a few episodes ago), and Jiren vs. Vegeta in base, which should be over in one hit.

I like a good tournament arc, but this needed better planning from the start. It's new, and I already feel it could benefit from being Kai'ed.
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Re: Super Episode 128 (18 February 2018)

Post by Vegeta_Sama » Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:05 am

SsjCookie wrote:
Vegeta_Sama wrote:
SsjCookie wrote: Now I'm actually hoping Goku loses against Jiren to make this arc at least a bit more interesting story wise.
There's absolutely nothing interesting about Goku losing AGAIN in Super. We saw that a billion times already, I'm getting sick of it by now: Beerus, Golden Frieza, Frost, Hit, Zamasu etc. Goku has just been a punching bag for everyone in this series. The only characters he managed to defeat are Botamo, and Copy Vegeta. Jiren winning would be the most anticlimactic thing that could ever happened after all of this buildup for Ultra Instinct.

I find absolutely nothing interesting about Goku gaining another transformation (again) and therefore winning the tournament.(again)
It would be so boorishly predictable.
Goku, saviour and ultimate paragon of all the universes. :yawn:
We have seen that a billion times before.
Last time he won a tournament was back in the Original Dragon Ball. He always lost after that one way or the other. Goku is the main character with the least number of victories I've ever seen, him winning this thing for once would be a nice change. What exactly would you want, Jiren stomping him like he did for the entire arc? Yeah, that would be so interesting, we never saw that in the past 30+ episodes or so. After all of this build-up for how awesome Ultra Instinct is, Goku losing would be the least satisfying ending I've ever seen in DB history

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Re: Super Episode 128 (18 February 2018)

Post by Code » Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:14 am

SsjCookie wrote:I find absolutely nothing interesting about Goku gaining another transformation (again) and therefore winning the tournament.(again)
It would be so boorishly predictable.
Goku, saviour and ultimate paragon of all the universes. :yawn:
We have seen that a billion times before.
Exactly. They could have done so much with this tournament, but in the end it's all same old, same old. Awakening Ultra Instinct is no different than going SSJ on Namek. We've seen all of this before.

Maybe have Jiren throw out Goku, after their first fight. This would a) introduce Ultra Instinct for later b) show that Jiren is not an idiot and c) give Goku some time on the sidelines to reflect on what he has done. I mean, ok, he has now realised, that everybody is counting on him. Great! When is he going to realise, that this entire situation is only happening because of him? He's responsible for the destruction of billions of lives. If he would finally notice that and be hit by a wave of remorse, while his friends in the ring need to fix, what he has created... THAT'S character growth. That's a story. *

Then you could have the end fight between Jiren and Vegeta / Gohan / Frieza / 17, where they actually beat him with team tactics. Remember? Supposedly they are important in a tournament with ring-outs. In the end, only raw power mattered (like always).

Instead, they made the most obvious choices possible. Vegeta gets beaten up and accepts, that he is number 2. AGAIN. His arc is coming full circle? His arc came full circle in the Boo saga. This is just an extra round of the exact same thing, ending exactly where it started.

The only interesting thing they have left, is a double ring-out of Jiren and Goku. We all know, what will happen, when Goku wins. He's gonna wish all universes back and nothing that happened, will have mattered *yawn*. But if Frieza gets a wish... I wonder, what he would wish for. That might be stuff, worthy of a new series. Usurpation of the Gods? Who knows. I'd like to see that.


* And yes, I know, the universes were going to be erased anyway. But these are gods we're talking about. Beerus is 75 million years old. When Zeno says "I'm going to erase some universes soon" that might mean, he's going to do it in a million years (which is "soon" for him). Or he might just forget it, like he forgot the idea of a martial arts tournament. Goku caused the universes to be erased right now.

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Re: Super Episode 128 (18 February 2018)

Post by TheDipDap1234 » Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:33 am

This episode was better than the previous 2 for me, but I found it overall pretty boring. It only got really good when Goku went Ultra Instinct. It was nice to hear Hiromi Tsuru again for one last time and the art and animation was alright. The NEP was also great.

I didn't like how besides Goku and Jiren no one mentioned the events of the previous episode. I thought Krillin and the others would talk about 17's sacrifice a little more at the beginning but nothing happened. You would think Krillin would say something about his brother in-law killing himself, but nope. Instead, he keeps screaming Goku's and Vegeta's names.
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Re: Super Episode 128 (18 February 2018)

Post by Torturephile » Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:46 am

Artorias wrote:I'm surprised I'm not seeing more people give credit to the ACTUAL CHOREOGRAPHY the fights in this episode had. The animation itself wasn't super impressive or anything, but I thought the bits of actual hand-to-hand combat were pretty well executed and made the fights feel more impactful than they have in recent episodes, despite the lacking direction in this episode. Gave me mad Rocky vibes.
I forgot to add some praise for that, but this time I wrote my post some time after watching the episode and not while watching it. Same comment I was going to write about 17 like what TheDipDap1234 said on the second paragraph above.
Last edited by Torturephile on Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Super Episode 128 (18 February 2018)

Post by Son Vegito » Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:46 am

ZenkaiBoosts wrote:Geekdom did a FANTASTIC review of episode 128

I encourage everyone to go watch it.

He goes in-depth about the themes explored. He really gives this episode the attention and real discussion it deserved


ps

Toshio is a beast at writing emotional episodes

They need to give all the emotional episodes to Toshio
Won't have the time to watch anytime soon sadly, but I do agree and disagree with you. First about the part I agree with. I've seen many people hating on this episode, calling it disrespectful to Vegeta and his fans, but that's BS. To me there's hardly anything more manly than what Vegeta displayed in this episode. Almost literally fighting to death. Constantly thinking about his family and the promise he made. A real man always keeps his promises, that's why he was so frustrated and tears became visable. He then even put a part of his pride aside in order to win(giving his energy to Goku).

Now the part I disagree with is that it was beatly done. I've seen other battle Shonen anime(mainly from the 00s) handling emotional scenes and this scene and many others in DBS could've been done a loooot better. Now I'm not sure if the writers are the ones to blame or it just poorly directed. No scene in Super has even hit me a little bit so far emotionally aside of Future Trunks' final moments in ep67 when he saw Gohan and got reminded of his past. But that scene only lasted for like 20 seconds.

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Re: Super Episode 128 (18 February 2018)

Post by SuperDragoon » Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:21 pm

Meh episode. Vegeta could have gone out a lot better. Instead he went out like a chump. The second half was better but nothing really happened.

One of the weaker episodes of the tournament. I honestly don't get why people like Zenkai here are praising this episide to hell and back (and attacking people who don't like it btw). It wasn't anything special imo. Kind of disappointed in Toshio. Not his best writing despite the hype he gave this one.

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Re: Super Episode 128 (18 February 2018)

Post by Basaku » Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:30 pm

ZenkaiBoosts wrote:Wow. Toriyama/Toei have done it again. I'm speechlees.

We are in such a great string of amazing episodes, each one topping the last.

I knew Toriyana/Toei were going to hit the ending out of the park : )

Thank you Toriyama/Toei.

Episode 128 is now one of my all time favorite episodes in Super, joining 110, 116, 118, 121, 123, 125, 126, 127.

And man was it an emotional episode too. Probably one of the most emotional episodes yet. Where do you even begin with such an amazing episode like this. Just wow.

I will give my expanded thoughts in a few.

Truly amazimg and emotional episode
ZenkaiBoosts wrote: Thank you Toriyama/Toei/Toshio.

128 will truly go down as one of my all time favorite episodes in Dragon Ball history. Episode 129 looks like it's going to be even better...

Toriyama/Toei are on a huge run right now, and I have full confidence will nail the ending. The legend of Son Goku will rise. Let's go Goku
Everyone got their opinions of course etc. but you sure sound like a paid marketer in half of your posts :lol: :P

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Re: Super Episode 128 (18 February 2018)

Post by mfwlegend3 » Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:38 pm

RedHeat wrote:This episode reminded me of a Rocky movie.
Definitely glad I wasn't the only one thinking that. The Bulma calling out to Vegeta scene reminded me of Mickey calling out to Rocky in Rocky 5.
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Re: Super Episode 128 (18 February 2018)

Post by lord turbo » Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:56 pm

Vegeta_Sama wrote:
SsjCookie wrote: Now I'm actually hoping Goku loses against Jiren to make this arc at least a bit more interesting story wise.
There's absolutely nothing interesting about Goku losing AGAIN in Super. We saw that a billion times already, I'm getting sick of it by now: Beerus, Golden Frieza, Frost, Hit, Zamasu etc. Goku has just been a punching bag for everyone in this series. The only characters he managed to defeat are Botamo, and Copy Vegeta. Jiren winning would be the most anticlimactic thing that could ever happened after all of this buildup for Ultra Instinct.
To be fair, Goku losing to Jiren would fit in line with Toriyama being contrarian and would be a safe route to go since Jiren is not an evil-doer and add any form of character development by having Jiren beat Goku winning the battle, but losing the war internally as "something" about Goku changes him where he uses the Super DBs to wish everyone back.

It would also serve as a great clash that even with all of Goku's massive nakama/friendship power he fails not only himself, but everyone and serves as a learning lesson for Goku to change for the better and take up Whis suggestion about fighting as a team rather than separately due to warrior arrogance and pride as not everything works out for him by his own choices and actions in the end, sometimes, sometimes he's at the whim of others.

That would be better than Goku beating Jiren or Jiren losing through a contrived forced technicality through Freeza because everyone "forgot" about him still existing in.my honest opinion.
ZenkaiBoosts wrote:
DiegoBrando wrote:
ZenkaiBoosts wrote:

I can't believe I'm still the only one who mentioned this

No one else thought it was genius how as Goku was being pushed off a literal edge, he was metaphorically being pushed off the edge by Jiren (well past his limits) leading to awakening Omen, which thinking about his loved ones counting on him contributed to as well.

I'm surprised how this community didn't notice something like that. Super is a lot deeper then it gets credit for and has many of these genius moments



Amazing emotional episode. Don't care what anyone else says
I think you need to stop watching anime and go read a book. More importantly, I think you need to stop spamming this topic with constantly repeating the same shit and telling everyone how epic and deep this episode was..
You have no right to tell me what to do. You have no right to tell me what I should think or what my opinions should be. Understand that people have differing opinions to you
I think what he may be trying to say is that your praise is too over the top, like a person who laughs way harder than everyone else at a mildly funny joke or you're giving a 4/10 meal a 9/10. You come off somewhat as an overly excited and easily amused small child that doesn't know how to convey their thoughts accordingly, basically dial it back some so that you're not seen as an exaggerated CinemaWins/Ned Flanders type poster. I guess what I'm trying to say is don't be so far off in the opposite extreme of negativity. This is not a personal attack on you, just an observation.
SsjCookie wrote:
DiegoBrando wrote: Vegeta gets beaten, even when he gives it everything he's got and Goku gets a powerup yet again, and now has the upper hand. Wow we've certainly never seen this one before zzz...
I was thinking the exact same thing, where have I seen this scene before?
It would have been more original if Vegeta would have been the last man standing.
Now I'm actually hoping Goku loses against Jiren to make this arc at least a bit more interesting story wise.
DiegoBrando wrote:Jiren looks less intimidating by the day, and the animation is still god awful. I hope Dragon Ball ends forever after this. Leave new stories to non-cannon videogames.
Sadly I agree.
I honestly feel sorry for Vegeta, his moment in the light feels incredibly main character/protaganist like, this is probably how Goku should be acting and demonstrating those qualities, not Vegeta, but no, Goku is a generic 1 dimensional card board cut out that can only think of food and fighting, his conversation with Ribrianne about what he wants illustrate this problem.

Even worst is that all his efforts feel largely unearned and just handed to him because "main character" yo. I'm talking about emotional weight and not the asspull power ups, basically the scene with Goku thinking about everyone and all that trust placed on him falls flat to me because Goku himself has been very distant and absent in his own little world not thinking about much until a light is shine on him forcing him to be the reluctant hero when all he wants to do is kick ass and chew bubble gum.

Case in point, I can't help but feel what is suppose to be an epic shining moment when UI kicks in becomes somewhat dishearting due to Goku's cold, dead, stern, and empty expressions, like he's not really there, just going through the motions. Goku was far more expressive when he turned SS against Freeza on Namek, here Goku slides to close to tranquil fury when he has zero reasons to be angry with Jiren, if anything, be angry at Zeno and Grand Priest for setting up this tournament that forces everyone to fight for their survival all for some thoughtless kids amusement.

All the ingredients for semi-thought provoking, engaging, and emotional investment is right there, but no one is capitalizing on it, well I take that back, someone is but the writing and direction is so mediocre that when ultilized it comes off comical and heavy handed/ham fisted like Vegeta's resolve this entire episode, laughable

Again, not a fault on the VA, he did solid, its the lousy script and directing that squandered it all.
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Re: Super Episode 128 (18 February 2018)

Post by Kaiosama » Sun Feb 18, 2018 1:46 pm

Firebolt wrote:This episode was a mixed bag for me.

Good :
- The choreography was absolutely stellar. Say what you want about Yamamuro, but his knowledge of martial arts made this episode very enjoyable, at least to my eyes.
- Goku actually thinking about his friends for once. I was worried that the reason for Goku's third UI transformation would just be Jiren's massive energy, what a relief.
Bad :
- Toshio's writing was a bit underwhelming in my opinion.
- Despite the excellent choreography that I mentioned earlier, Yamamuro's storyboard was disappointing. I was expecting something as desperate and hopeless as Goku fighting Freeza on Namek after using the Kaioken X20, but what we got in the episode was not even close. There was no tension whatsoever, it was just a countdown to Goku activating Ultra Instinct.
I think the tension could've been pulled off better if they didn't debut UI in the middle of the tournament. Instead we all knew that he was going to get pushed into a corner again and BOOM back in UI.

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Re: Super Episode 128 (18 February 2018)

Post by SsjCookie » Sun Feb 18, 2018 1:50 pm

Code wrote:
SsjCookie wrote:I find absolutely nothing interesting about Goku gaining another transformation (again) and therefore winning the tournament.(again)
It would be so boorishly predictable.
Goku, saviour and ultimate paragon of all the universes. :yawn:
We have seen that a billion times before.
Exactly. They could have done so much with this tournament, but in the end it's all same old, same old. Awakening Ultra Instinct is no different than going SSJ on Namek. We've seen all of this before.

Maybe have Jiren throw out Goku, after their first fight. This would a) introduce Ultra Instinct for later b) show that Jiren is not an idiot and c) give Goku some time on the sidelines to reflect on what he has done. I mean, ok, he has now realised, that everybody is counting on him. Great! When is he going to realise, that this entire situation is only happening because of him? He's responsible for the destruction of billions of lives. If he would finally notice that and be hit by a wave of remorse, while his friends in the ring need to fix, what he has created... THAT'S character growth. That's a story. *

Then you could have the end fight between Jiren and Vegeta / Gohan / Frieza / 17, where they actually beat him with team tactics. Remember? Supposedly they are important in a tournament with ring-outs. In the end, only raw power mattered (like always).

Instead, they made the most obvious choices possible. Vegeta gets beaten up and accepts, that he is number 2. AGAIN. His arc is coming full circle? His arc came full circle in the Boo saga. This is just an extra round of the exact same thing, ending exactly where it started.

The only interesting thing they have left, is a double ring-out of Jiren and Goku. We all know, what will happen, when Goku wins. He's gonna wish all universes back and nothing that happened, will have mattered *yawn*. But if Frieza gets a wish... I wonder, what he would wish for. That might be stuff, worthy of a new series. Usurpation of the Gods? Who knows. I'd like to see that.


* And yes, I know, the universes were going to be erased anyway. But these are gods we're talking about. Beerus is 75 million years old. When Zeno says "I'm going to erase some universes soon" that might mean, he's going to do it in a million years (which is "soon" for him). Or he might just forget it, like he forgot the idea of a martial arts tournament. Goku caused the universes to be erased right now.

Yes, as of now things with this tournament are progressing just the way I expected.
The only surprises so far were Roshi and 17, the rest of the cast I feel were severely underused and ignored. they are basically no more than glorified cheerleaders for Goku in the end.
What will happen if Goku wins the tournament?
He'll wish all the other universes back and they all live happily ever after?
Boooooooring!

I'm still hoping for a huge plot twist in the end though.

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Re: Super Episode 128 (18 February 2018)

Post by prince212 » Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:16 pm

Nothing unexpected in this episode , but the way they made it was ok in my opinion , vegeta lost fighting until the end , standing up one after another punch in contrast with freezer hiding .....and the way Goku went back to u.i was good , looks clear that now u.i handle better against Jiren than in the first appearance, u7 will win 100% for sure , my only doubt is freezer role in that , I will be disappointed if he’s the last one standing in the arena , unless that lead us to some cliffhanger, but still ....
8/10 , they stretch quite too much vegetas defeat
It was as if a whole lot of people ...were screaming in pain....

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Re: Super Episode 128 (18 February 2018)

Post by Regarder » Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:21 pm

The bit where Jiren goes to finish Goku off and Goku disappears and reappears directly behind him in Ultra Instinct reminds me a lot of the Musou Tensei technique from Fist of the North Star.
SsjCookie wrote: I'm still hoping for a huge plot twist in the end though.
Personally, I think it would be great if they did something utterly unformulaic at this point, like either have Jiren win as mentioned, or have Jiren lose only because the time runs out. They've set up Jiren's past now, and unless they're going to do nothing with that, it seems like the guy should have some emotional walls to break down of his own. If Jiren won it wouldn't be formulaic, but it wouldn't be something the series hasn't done at all either, given Goku lost the first two Budokai he competed in, and of course, Jiren would be the one to surprisingly decide to bring everyone back. If Jiren loses for a reason that isn't to do with Goku outright beating him, a lot of fans would find that to be anti-climactic, but I'd love it because it would mean that the series ends with, yes, Goku getting this new transformation, but still having so much further to go, and having Jiren as a future rival due to being unsatisfied about the win, while still being able to bring back all the universes with his technical win.

Honestly, DB has fallen into such a formulaic rut that it would benefit from even the tiniest shake up to show there's life still there. They could have had Vegeta win or something, but we've past that point now.

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Re: Super Episode 128 (18 February 2018)

Post by julianix » Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:28 pm

I'm not a vegeta fan and even I'm upset for them. I'm sorry they couldn't handle something so simple.

And I thought gohans development was mediocre..vegeta was literaly a paste and copy from the buu arc with less action, worse animation, less build up, worse execution .

So that's now 2 major characters super has botched. How is that even possible.

And unfortunately I fear all the progress they did with Frieza is slowly but surely going out the window.

Jiren is a lost cause.. one or two good episodes can't save that bust of a character. Jiren is the biggest choke in the series so far. Nothing good about him. I mean nothing.

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Re: Super Episode 128 (18 February 2018)

Post by Zagacious » Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:40 pm

ZenkaiBoosts wrote:
Diccolo-420 wrote:
ZenkaiBoosts wrote: Yeah no. I'm not the one acting like this

I actually backed up my arguments telling you WHY Goku actually did awaken Omen

You are the one who completely left out or ignored a crucial part of Goku recalling everyone counting on him

You didmt have to like it. Thats not any issue. Its you leaving out elements of that scene and misinterpreting it


Even Asura layed out a great post telling you that your opinion on Goku getting Omen wasnt well informed


You simply need to relax
No, you really are the only one acting like this in this thread constantly attacking anyone for having a different view and then throwing ad hominem their way
Can you please provide examples of me attacking? Who have I attacked?

And if anyone did feel I did, I apologise.

I've agreed with people who didnt like the episode. So explain that

I havev a feeling you arent actualy reading my posts in this thread

Also go back and reread my responses because I said many times that you have a right to hate all you want

My issue with you and the Jiren AV were your attitudes. I already layed out that people can like and hate anything they want

Just understand that there are differing opinions and negative opinions can be challenged in the same way positive ones are

I'm pretty sure it was you two who first quoted me.

You two are pretty much proving my point. I said cetain people like to call things garbage but cant handle when their negatve opinions are challenged.. just because I'm trying to tell you to be accepting of other view points you instantly claim "I'm attacking you"...

You were calling this episode garbage just because your favorite character (Vegeta) was eliminated. That says it all. I dont need to say anymore

This is clearly going no where. You are free to what ever opinion you want to have. As if i couldnt have said it more so you finally understand. I've said it again and again. Its just your opinion. Its not a fact that Super or this episode was garbage. If you want to continue then PM me. I'm moving on from this
You didn't reply to a single one of my points you just keep repeating how awesome you think it is, that's why people stop replying to you because it's utterly pointless. You've spammed this thread beyond belief repeating the same things over and over with terrible structure I have no idea how you aren't banned yet. You've posted a good 20 times in this thread at least saying the same shit over and over

You really need to read others posts and read your own posts before you post them because it comes off as completely delusional and obvious that you don't care what they say unless they agree with you.

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Re: Super Episode 128 (18 February 2018)

Post by Asura » Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:52 pm

Every week we hear both Vegeta AND ZenkaiBoosts giving the same speech over and over again. :lol:

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