Super Episode 129 (4 March 2018)

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Re: Super Episode 129 (4 March 2018)

Post by SHINOBI-03 » Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:34 am

Great episode ruined by recycled animation over and over again.
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Re: Super Episode 129 (4 March 2018)

Post by ZenkaiBoosts » Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:43 am

I liked this quote/review a lot.

"This episode and its reaction cemented in my mind that some people will literally never be pleased with Super no matter what. No, I don't care that they used some recycled animation in the episode. It's barely noticeable if you're not looking for it and the abundance of new animation was very well done. No, I don't care about the focus on the stands. Seeing others react to the main fight, for me, increases the hype, and moments like Vegeta talking down to Belmod, the gods standing, Whis' reaction and Beerus telling the humans to shut up were all well done and welcome. No, I don't consider Goku's powerup a problem. Goku getting "asspull" powerups has existed since he instantly perfected the Kamehameha as a child after seeing it performed once, or happening to be the "one in a million" Super Saiyan. At least in Super Ultra Instinct was foreshadowed early on. We get an amazing episode with great animation, fights, sound direction and hype on the level of the whole franchise, and even that is leading into what seems to be an even greater episode next week, and some people are convinced that it is irredeemable trash? If this episode isn't up to your standards, frankly, I have no idea how you can stomach anything in the entire franchise."




If you loved this episode like the majority did, don't let the vocal minority bully you, dissuade you, or distort things for you. Many have been calling 129 one of the best episodes in Dragon Ball. I agree. It's been overwhelmingly more then well received. Dont worry: ). There's always going to be "haters" for everything I guess. Beat that with positivity: )

I mean look at Conor McGregor for example. Conor McGregor is the only fighter in UFC history to win belts in 2 different weight classes at the same time. Conor is an absolutely proven phenomenal technician who's destroyed the best of the best, yet you still have people who claim he sucks and is still not proven, simply because they don't personally like him. On the internet you are always going to get those types who just want to hate on everything. It's even good for your health to be a positive person. Just enjoy life: ) Enjoy things for what they are. Only 2 more episodes of Super left boys. It's been an amazing ride. Son Goku baby! Let's do this. Jiren is about to get humbled by mastered UI Goku. I can't wait!!!

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Re: Super Episode 129 (4 March 2018)

Post by ZenkaiBoosts » Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:45 am

Hugo Boss wrote:I honestly couldn’t care less about reused animation. The moments it needed to step up, it was well executed. Great and genuine character interactions all the way. The main moment felt powerful visually, I just wanted they have put “break the limit”-track when Goku was midway the completion of Goku’i.
This.

Great post.

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Re: Super Episode 129 (4 March 2018)

Post by ZenkaiBoosts » Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:51 am

I really thought that the limit breaker theme was going to be played for Goku's mastered UI transformation

I think it would've fit perfectly

https://youtu.be/a9uIAsI_O5w

I wonder what occasion they are saving that theme for now. Any guesses, anyone?

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Re: Super Episode 129 (4 March 2018)

Post by Pannaliciour » Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:57 am

I haven't watch this episode yet. Will there be a fight betwee jiren and Mastered UI Goku or will it end with the transformation?

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Re: Super Episode 129 (4 March 2018)

Post by ZenkaiBoosts » Sun Mar 04, 2018 11:04 am

PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote:You know, I kinda wished that Goku would retain that silvery-white all-encompassing aura around him that covers him completely and obscures his body when he initially attains the Complete Ultra Instinct.

It looks SO DAMN COOL.
I'm right there with you: ) It looked freaking amazing.

Image

Image

Image

Made Goku look so much more badass. Goku looked straight up godly and untouchable

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Re: Super Episode 129 (4 March 2018)

Post by ZenkaiBoosts » Sun Mar 04, 2018 11:07 am

Pannaliciour wrote:I haven't watch this episode yet. Will there be a fight betwee jiren and Mastered UI Goku or will it end with the transformation?
Goku gets the transformation toward the end of the episode.

The preview for 130 is bone chilling epic too

I will just say this. If you thought shirtless Goku was a thing. We will now be getting the first ever all shirtless battle in Dragon Ball lol!

So hyped. Can't wait for the legendary Son Goku to kick some more ass! Let's go Son Goku !
Last edited by ZenkaiBoosts on Sun Mar 04, 2018 11:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Super Episode 129 (4 March 2018)

Post by Firebolt » Sun Mar 04, 2018 11:24 am

ZenkaiBoosts wrote: If you loved this episode like the majority did, don't let the vocal minority bully you, dissuade you, or distort things for you. Many have been calling 129 one of the best episodes in Dragon Ball. I agree. It's been overwhelmingly more then well received. Dont worry: ). There's always going to be "haters" for everything I guess. Beat that with positivity: )
Hating is completely different from criticizing.

We are 3 episodes to the series' end, and we get this, an episode filled with lackluster action at the beginning, outrageous amounts of reused/redrawn animation throughout the middle, and an amazing, albeit short scene at the end.

What's more, this episode could be the penultimate battle of the entire series, and it's filled with an abundance of technical issues. Again, this close to the finale, an episode like this is unacceptable.

Even more so, this episode was hyped up by Toei to be the best episode and battle of Super so far, after a seemingly endless string of mediocre to outright bad episodes. Yet as most people have noticed, this is not the case.

Most people, especially here on Kanzenshuu are not mindlessly hating over insignificant details, we are dissapointed because these final episodes could've been so much more, because of just how poorly executed these final episodes were.

I don't mean to be rude, but just because some people did not personally enjoy an episode as much as you did, it does not mean they are "haters", and they are perfectly entitled to express their opinions on forums such as this very website.
Last edited by Firebolt on Sun Mar 04, 2018 11:33 am, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Super Episode 129 (4 March 2018)

Post by Michsi » Sun Mar 04, 2018 11:24 am

Or were you only focusing on the negative ones?
No. Granted, I'm referring to a specific part of the fandom that is very focused on animation quality and those are the people I tend to follow and whose opinions I see first. I'm not the biggest sakuga enthusiast, but when the animation problems are so obvious it sours the entire episode for me.

If it's 70/30 that's great, but I kinda get the feeling that you're a big reason for that '70'. It almost feels like you are trying to drown out the criticism with all these posts. You are welcome to your opinion, and far be it from me to try and make you enjoy the episode any less than you did (I doubt most actually want to dislike it) but some genuinely expected more.

If there's one thing we agree one, that shot of Goku surrounded by bright white light was amazing and I wish the transformation looked like that always,

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Re: Super Episode 129 (4 March 2018)

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Sun Mar 04, 2018 11:30 am

You know, I just realized that 18 was the only member of team Universe 7 who couldn't potentially break her limits by losing her shirt :lol:

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Re: Super Episode 129 (4 March 2018)

Post by Okara » Sun Mar 04, 2018 11:31 am

JazzMazz wrote:
Okara wrote:
JazzMazz wrote:But it wasn't re-used, the first half wasn't merely setting up "Goku can't beat Jiren currently", it went beyond that to say that "Goku can go beyond his current power to beat Jiren", I don't see how thats necessarily re-used from 110, which doesn't establish that Goku can't beat Jiren with Omen, but more establishes that "Goku can fight Jiren with Omen" and serves as an introduction to that level of power.
We already knew that because they showed us in the preview. It’s in the episode title. These guys can’t keep the plot hidden to save their lives. They don’t need to dedicate the first half of the episode to telling us Goku is about to do what they outright told us will happen; most of it was just reused animation. The first ten minutes all could’ve taken place in a minute or two. The second half spent WAY too much time on the scene with Goku get pummeled and struggling to overcome it. This also could’ve been cut down (seriously, it’s almost like Toei was taking a shot at themselves by having Beerus tell Krillin to shut the fuck up. But I highly doubt they’re even aware of how bad it is).

I guarantee you 2/3 of the first half of next episode will be spent talking about how “awesome” mastered Ultra Instinct is and telling us stuff we can plainly see, as if the show is marketed towards blind people. That should’ve been in the second half of this episode.
Just because its been shown in the title and preview doesn't mean it doesn't need to be shown. Thats like saying you didn't need to see the defeat Freeza in the Namek arc because it said so in the preview and episode title. Its still stuff that needs to be visually communicated and demonstrated to the audience, and taking time with that sort of thing is important in order to really sell that idea to the audience. We didn't get instantly told that Freeza was losing steam and becoming more and more outmatched by Goku as the fight progressed, we were visually shown it.
The only real negative about your first point that I definitely agree with you with is that there was too much re-used animation, that really diminshed the scale of a fantastic storyboard and distracted from the fight instead of engaging us in it.
The scene of Goku getting pummelled was given that much time for a good reason, and that was visually show Goku mastering the offensive aspect of UI, and considering how that weakness of the form was played up, devoting a decent amount of time to Goku learning that aspect of the form was essential progression for the character. Its also a scene that allows the severity of the situation to sink in. Rushing over essential scenes like that would only harm the plot, and in my opinion it didn't overstay its welcome like the spirit bomb in 109 and 110 did.

Though I would prefer if they cut out that dialogue to focus on the scale of the fight as well as the fighters themselves, this is Dragonball, characters have always played up awesome other characters are when they reach a new plateau of strength. It comes with the genre.
Goku defeating Frieza was the resolution to the conflict; we obviously needed to see it.

This we did not. Goku mastering any aspect of Ultra Instinct has absolutely no meaning. This is just another Super Saiyan form. The writers put no time and effort into showing us Goku and Vegeta’s struggle to reach this level, so there’s no meaning behind Goku “finally” mastering it. I was laughing my ass off as Beerus was saying Goku “finally” did it as if he didn’t just start doing this 20 minutes ago (honestly, the “finally” from Beerus is dumb either way. Vegeta should’ve said it, and it would’ve had meaning if we’d seen their struggle). And no, Whis had not been training them for this off-screen; Vegeta’s flashback to Resurrection F ironically proved it. Even if they had, that’s not enough to make it feel like Goku’s achieving something he’s struggled for. The audience should’ve seen that.

Basically, we don’t need to watch the process of Goku slowly pulling this out of his ass. They’re just wasting time. That all could’ve been cut down into a few minutes. ESPECIALLY since this all happened in 30 seconds of real time or less anyway, so there’s no point in dragging it out. The whole arc is a mess and the concept of Ultra Instinct was wasted.

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Re: Super Episode 129 (4 March 2018)

Post by ZenkaiBoosts » Sun Mar 04, 2018 11:43 am

Firebolt wrote:hating is completely different from criticising
Did you read the review I posted? My post was more so about that.

And I was simply talking about the people who hate on Conor McGregor. It was just an example and me talking about haters in general. That regardless of anything, just be a positive person. It's not good to be negative


Anyway, this was mind blowing

Image

The last 15 mins alone of the episode made it a 10+++++++ in my eyes

firebolt wrote: Even more so, this episode was hyped up by Toei to be the best episode and battle of Super so far, after a seemingly endless string of mediocre to outright bad episodes. As most people have noticed, this is not the case.
Only Goku's form was being hyped. In particular as the most powerful form ever. They delivered on that ten fold.

Toei never hyped 129 as the best episode ever. That's literally your headcanon. You can't blame Toei if your standards were impossibly high due to your own head canon.

Also, "string of bad episodes" is only your subjective opinion. Do you know that the majority have considered 127, 128, 129 to be fantastic episodes? Are you saying their opinions don't matter. And that only yours does?
Firebolt wrote:Most people, especially on Kanzenshuu are not mindlessly hating over insignificant details, we are dissapointed because these final episodes could've been so much more, but they're not.
"We?" You cant really speak for everyone on this forum. I can point you to many posts in this very thread of people loving the episode and praising it. The reception on this forum is mixed at worst. Maybe 65/35 in favor of episode 129. Across other cites and social media it's overwhelmingly beyond positive.

To be honest, at this point the cynicism that's been going on for a while is getting a little annoying. I.e anyone who likes Super being called an apologist or a kid. Also the review I quoted addressed that very well. But that's people's right to have what ever opinion they want. With all the negativity thats been lingering for a while its refreshing to get some positivity in here: ) Balance

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Re: Super Episode 129 (4 March 2018)

Post by ZenkaiBoosts » Sun Mar 04, 2018 11:55 am

One of the most alpha scenes ever in Dragon Ball with a hilarious photoshop

Image

Hahahaha

I really do feel that when the next iteration of Super returns, the plan is for Toriyama/Toei to work their way up to the end of Z from after the tournament, and then completely write over GT with canon

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Re: Super Episode 129 (4 March 2018)

Post by Mister_Popo » Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:01 pm

Firebolt wrote:
ZenkaiBoosts wrote: If you loved this episode like the majority did, don't let the vocal minority bully you, dissuade you, or distort things for you. Many have been calling 129 one of the best episodes in Dragon Ball. I agree. It's been overwhelmingly more then well received. Dont worry: ). There's always going to be "haters" for everything I guess. Beat that with positivity: )
Hating is completely different from criticizing.

We are 3 episodes to the series' end, and we get this, an episode filled with lackluster action at the beginning, outrageous amounts of reused/redrawn animation throughout the middle, and an amazing, albeit short scene at the end.

What's more, this episode could be the penultimate battle of the entire series, and it's filled with an abundance of technical issues. Again, this close to the finale, an episode like this is unacceptable.

Even more so, this episode was hyped up by Toei to be the best episode and battle of Super so far, after a seemingly endless string of mediocre to outright bad episodes. Yet as most people have noticed, this is not the case.

Most people, especially here on Kanzenshuu are not mindlessly hating over insignificant details, we are dissapointed because these final episodes could've been so much more, because of just how poorly executed these final episodes were.

I don't mean to be rude, but just because some people did not personally enjoy an episode as much as you did, it does not mean they are "haters", and they are perfectly entitled to express their opinions on forums such as this very website.
You could not have liked this episode. I don't know why you're still a Dragon Ball fan, but ok, it's your 'opinion'. But iIf you're calling the animation in this episode plain bad and filled with 'issues', i really don't want to be rude, but then i have the feeling you don't know what you are are talking about.

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Re: Super Episode 129 (4 March 2018)

Post by Firebolt » Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:10 pm

ZenkaiBoosts wrote:
Only Goku's form was being hyped. In particular as the most powerful form ever. They delivered on that ten fold.

Toei never hyped 129 as the best episode ever. That's literally your headcanon. You can't blame Toei if your standards were impossibly high due to your own head canon.
Taken straight from the extended preview.
"An unprecedented ultimate final battle begins!"

It's also worth noting that in the extended preview they only showed all the new animation, clearly trying to make it seem that this episode was going to be exceptionally well animated.

And my standards aren't "impossibly high", all I and everyone else who didn't enjoy this episode's animation wanted was a reasonably well animated battle sequence because this is the penultimate battle of the entire series. Instead almost half of this episode's animation was reused straight from the opening, Goku's Kamehameha from back in 116, and many, many more.
Also, "string of bad episodes" is only your subjective opinion. Do you know that the majority have considered 127, 128, 129 to be fantastic episodes? Are you saying their opinions don't matter. And that only yours does?
I'm not saying that, and I'm sorry if I have made it seem that way.

That being said however, the majority of reviews and comments that I've seen shared my opinion that these final episodes were extremely dissapointing.
"We?" You cant really speak for everyone on this forum. I can point you to many posts in this very thread of people loving the episode and praising it. The reception on this forum is mixed at worst. Maybe 65/35 in favor of episode 129. Across other cites and social media it's overwhelmingly beyond positive
I was not speaking for everyone, I was speaking for the people who personally did not enjoy this episode.
Mister_Popo wrote: *snip*
From a technical view, yes, this episode's animation was a complete mess. It was completely filled with reused animation from 110, 116 and the opening. I do know what I'm talking about. If you don't believe me, Kanzenshuu's very own animation expert, Ajay, was also very dissapointed with this episode's animation.

Anyway, let's end this before the mods get involved.
Last edited by Firebolt on Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:24 pm, edited 7 times in total.

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Re: Super Episode 129 (4 March 2018)

Post by lord turbo » Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:10 pm

Exline wrote:I don't remember who said this, but it was such a great comment that represents why we dislike Super sometimes compared to other people and how it affects the show. It was somewhere along the lines of "Fans of Dragon Ball that find Super overly amazing, even when many mistakes and inconsistencies are made, are allowing Toei to keep giving such unsatisfying episodes due to the fact that they know fans will love any Dragon Ball content that comes out, no matter how monotonous it may be."

People are allowed to enjoy an episode, but don't be so ignorant to it's mistakes. It's not about being pessimistic about Dragon Ball Super, it's about having a pragmatic approach to the inconsistencies found all over the episode along with acknowledging great moments within the episode and critiquing them. It's all about whether the pros outweighing the cons like you've stated. For Dragon Ball Super, it seems to commonly be the negatives outweighing the positives.
I was the one that mentioned that, I have my own circle of friends that confirm that mindset too. The problems with DBS is episodes like this that are mostly mediocre, but a few stand out moments such as Beerus telling the peanut gallery to shut up, Vegeta roasti g Belmond (thr first half, the second half of it was typical "we saiyans are the master race" unneeded crap, Goku farting out a galaxy, the GoDs standing up for complete UI, and the last few minutes of photo-negative silhouette like complete UI Goku punking Jiren are great.

The rest of the episode like Whis stating the obvious that doesn't enhance what we see and is needless padding, the peanut gallery stating the obvious word for word (in fact this episode feels like they wanted the VAs to due something so the dialogue between 2, mayne 3 characters was literally spreaded out among the U7 cast, basically one person says a sentence and the next person finish what they said, rinse and repeat), Zeno needless padding moments, and bare minimum stock rerused animation from literally previous episodes, the glaring eyesore auras that hide low quality mistakes, worthless generic explosions left and right and you have a lot of cons that outweigh truly stand out epic moments.

I can't give this episode more than a 5.5 (6 being very generous) /10 in good faith, too many cutting corners that reminds me of Kubo wasting time and padding chapter just to have his characters scream bankai at the end of the chapter with no pay off. Like another poster said, would be really great if they consistently spread out the stand out solid moments across the whole episode and not condensed in the last 4-5 minites of the episode.
ZenkaiBoosts wrote:
PerhapsTheOtherOne wrote:You know, I kinda wished that Goku would retain that silvery-white all-encompassing aura around him that covers him completely and obscures his body when he initially attains the Complete Ultra Instinct.

It looks SO DAMN COOL.
I'm right there with you: ) It looked freaking amazing.

Image

Image

Image

Made Goku look so much more badass. Goku looked straight up godly and untouchable
Totally agreed.
Firebolt wrote:
ZenkaiBoosts wrote: If you loved this episode like the majority did, don't let the vocal minority bully you, dissuade you, or distort things for you. Many have been calling 129 one of the best episodes in Dragon Ball. I agree. It's been overwhelmingly more then well received. Dont worry: ). There's always going to be "haters" for everything I guess. Beat that with positivity: )
Hating is completely different from criticizing.

We are 3 episodes to the series' end, and we get this, an episode filled with lackluster action at the beginning, outrageous amounts of reused/redrawn animation throughout the middle, and an amazing, albeit short scene at the end.

What's more, this episode could be the penultimate battle of the entire series, and it's filled with an abundance of technical issues. Again, this close to the finale, an episode like this is unacceptable.

Even more so, this episode was hyped up by Toei to be the best episode and battle of Super so far, after a seemingly endless string of mediocre to outright bad episodes. Yet as most people have noticed, this is not the case.

Most people, especially here on Kanzenshuu are not mindlessly hating over insignificant details, we are dissapointed because these final episodes could've been so much more, because of just how poorly executed these final episodes were.

I don't mean to be rude, but just because some people did not personally enjoy an episode as much as you did, it does not mean they are "haters", and they are perfectly entitled to express their opinions on forums such as this very website.
You hit the nail on the head with this post my friend.
Last edited by lord turbo on Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Super Episode 129 (4 March 2018)

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:11 pm

Can people stop with the triple posts? Either edit stuff in, write your full post to begin with, or sit back and take a Prozac. There's no need for one person to make up 75% of half the pages in this thread.
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Re: Super Episode 129 (4 March 2018)

Post by SupremeKai25 » Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:14 pm

I am worried about Jiren in the next episode. He looks quite frustrated and mad at Goku. I hope he won't turn into a sore loser, as is tradition amongst Dragon Ball's main antagonists.

In Zamasu's case, it is obvious why he turned into a screeching monster towards the end of the arc. He was not sane, he was a ticking bomb waiting to explode. But Jiren? He always gave me the impression of a character who maintains his calm and composure even in face of problems. But in the preview of the next episode, it looks like he will lose it and go insane in face of Goku's resistance; which would be out-of-character for Jiren to act in such a bratty and childish manner.
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Re: Super Episode 129 (4 March 2018)

Post by Brettjr25 » Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:20 pm

Kamiccolo9 wrote:Can people stop with the triple posts? Either edit stuff in, write your full post to begin with, or sit back and take a Prozac. There's no need for one person to make up 75% of half the pages in this thread.
Just report and hope the mods do something, thats what I did. People asked him to stop before and he just continues. I think he's on a mission to make his opinion the majority opinion by reposting and reposting and copy/pasting opinions from youtube.

Anyway,

I was hoping the eps covered more, with only 2 eps left, DBS being canceled may give us a poor and rushed final eps. If the next eps is going to be the conclusion of the Goku v Jiren fight than the last one is going to have to be a rush mess of ending the arc and restoring universes (if they do), dealing with Freeza, concluding everyones storing, giving us a ending to Super and connnecting it to end of Z and I dont see that happening.

We may just get the original eps that get a "tough luck, our financial backers said no more, so no wrap up for you"

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Re: Super Episode 129 (4 March 2018)

Post by Helios518 » Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:24 pm

I wasn't really sure when I first watched this but after a rewatch or two, it holds up pretty nicely. I was hoping less reused animation due to y'know? Being half of possibly the biggest fight in DBS. But still the last 10 minutes of 129 was great probably my favorite introduction to a new form. I'll probably give this episode a B+ or A-.
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