Super Episode 129 (4 March 2018)

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Re: Super Episode 129 (4 March 2018)

Post by Artorias » Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:30 am

dbzfan7 wrote:First half or so of the episode was alright, but the final bits are where the true hype are. Now if only they could drag that hype across an episode, rather than only have it at the very end.
Super has done this A LOT in this tournament and it's genuinely starting to annoy me now. The first 80% of every episode is usually mundane for the sake of building up to a crazy ridiculous climax. That's not how you balance a narrative. There should be build up, but not to the point where I'm just kinda sitting around waiting for the "real" shit to start. As you said, spread the hype across the 22 minutes, don't condense it into the last 2.

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Re: Super Episode 129 (4 March 2018)

Post by Freeza9000 » Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:42 am

Imagine the only explanation for Freeza's whereabouts was that he was incinerated during the impact of Jiren and Goku's bout.

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Re: Super Episode 129 (4 March 2018)

Post by FrostByte » Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:45 am

This episode was so good!!! I love the way Goku just appeared behind Jiren,and crushed his energy ball without any effort.The preview looks intense,and waiting another 2 weeks is going to be a pain.

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Re: Super Episode 129 (4 March 2018)

Post by Totamo » Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:49 am

Extreme_kai wrote:
Totamo wrote:
Extreme_kai wrote:
The character moments for me were really what kept the episode afloat, it's just a shame they had to be forced into a final battle that will only span possibly less than 2 whole episodes. I think the show could have afforded to rush it's pacing and have worked out better for it. I have no clue what the showrunners have in store for the finale if they feel so comfortable moving the plot along at a snail's pace.

As an amateur animator, I do understand the necessity of reusing animation, I'm guilty of it myself. My problem was mainly that one punch dodge scene between Jiren and Goku (that I believe is an episode exclusive). While beautifully animated and illustrated it just kept getting shoved into our face during Whis commentary. First it was the normal sequence, then zoomed in, and eventually, Goku had his eyes closed. I personally don't have a problem with their aura's but I could see them becoming a strain on the eyes after awhile. I actually love the UI Aura, in particular, it gave Goku a very ethereal /angelic vibe it almost lowkey had me on the Goku is an angel train for a second.
Also amateur animator and I will tell you that I reuse a ton but thats only effects like smoke or impacts.

I can't in good heart reused choreography.
I hear ya. For me, it personally depends on what type of animating I'm doing and how many animators are helping me. I'm currently doing a long-running series alone releasing every 2-3 months (20 eps so far).I do script writing, animation, I voice act a character on top of managing other voice actors. I tried for a while to avoid reusing stuff but the workload got too intense for me. So for the sake of my sanity, I do reuse things like walk cycles etc often. If I was doing something like a short movie I probably wouldn't cause I'd have more time to work on it.
Planning the same but aiming for a weekly 10 minutes thing, so I have to use stock or I would kill myself.


You have to do it for things that your audience don't pay a second thought to if it looks solid, things like walk cycles, explosions and craters. But for scenes like, the final fight collision punch, can't reuse that or thats your head.


Thats why I'm hoping the final fight between Goku and Jiren isn't like this episode. It will ruin it. Spectacle is all this fight has now. I want to defend toei here against manga only fans but if toyo draws a fight better than Toei animates it, they have failed.

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Re: Super Episode 129 (4 March 2018)

Post by Totamo » Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:54 am

Artorias wrote:
dbzfan7 wrote:First half or so of the episode was alright, but the final bits are where the true hype are. Now if only they could drag that hype across an episode, rather than only have it at the very end.
Super has done this A LOT in this tournament and it's genuinely starting to annoy me now. The first 80% of every episode is usually mundane for the sake of building up to a crazy ridiculous climax. That's not how you balance a narrative. There should be build up, but not to the point where I'm just kinda sitting around waiting for the "real" shit to start. As you said, spread the hype across the 22 minutes, don't condense it into the last 2.
No, but this tournament isn't about the narrative. Its about the fight and z did this nonsense a lot before we got to great stuff, freeza's 4 hour fight to super saiyan, Gohan's fight with cell to the one handed kamehameha, the vegito fight just to get inside.



Toei is KNOWN for dragging crap out to save animation for the big stuff, check out Luffy vs Doffy.

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Re: Super Episode 129 (4 March 2018)

Post by TheShadowEmperor8055 » Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:56 am

I thought the episode was okay... lot of reused animation in the episode, but hyped for the episode in two weeks... and hopefully everything is new, but there’s some reused animation in the NEP too...

Overall I’m glad I didn’t rush too much to see the episode... maybe I need to rewatch it to see if my opinion on it improves... anything that wasn’t reused was nice tho...

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Re: Super Episode 129 (4 March 2018)

Post by gofishus » Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:04 am

Kind of a throwaway episode for me. The end part of this episode is what really matters; the first 80% of the episode could have all been cut and the audience would not have missed anything. The NEXT episode is the real hype, I think.
Also - yeah the timer doesnt really matter because we all know that Goku vs Jiren needs to finish before the timer runs out. Thats what the plot demands. Also - why is U11 and Belmod acting so smug when they are completely forgetting about Frieza? the universe with the most fighters wins, not the universe with the strongest fighter.

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Re: Super Episode 129 (4 March 2018)

Post by Raphael_Z » Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:04 am

Vegeta being super cocky and telling a G.o.D to his face that he's going to loose was his most badass moment in Super. Compare to how scared he was of Beerus at the beginning of Super and how cocky he is now against Belmond. Bravo Vegeta bravo!

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Re: Super Episode 129 (4 March 2018)

Post by Artorias » Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:07 am

Totamo wrote:
Artorias wrote:
dbzfan7 wrote:First half or so of the episode was alright, but the final bits are where the true hype are. Now if only they could drag that hype across an episode, rather than only have it at the very end.
Super has done this A LOT in this tournament and it's genuinely starting to annoy me now. The first 80% of every episode is usually mundane for the sake of building up to a crazy ridiculous climax. That's not how you balance a narrative. There should be build up, but not to the point where I'm just kinda sitting around waiting for the "real" shit to start. As you said, spread the hype across the 22 minutes, don't condense it into the last 2.
No, but this tournament isn't about the narrative. Its about the fight and z did this nonsense a lot before we got to great stuff, freeza's 4 hour fight to super saiyan, Gohan's fight with cell to the one handed kamehameha, the vegito fight just to get inside.



Toei is KNOWN for dragging crap out to save animation for the big stuff, check out Luffy vs Doffy.
Those examples are all over SEVERAL episodes. I'm talking strictly about the flow within ONE episode. And in that case, DB and DBZ did not do this. They didn't have a basic ass fight with reserved or reused animation, only to then blow their load on one massive bombastic ridiculous set piece at the very end. The whole episode was usually pretty entertaining throughout and had a nice balance of "hype", with a little bit of an extra "oomph" at the very end to build excitement for the next episode.

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Re: Super Episode 129 (4 March 2018)

Post by lord turbo » Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:10 am

I feel conflicted with this episode, I already knew for a fact complete UI wouldn't appear until the very end of the episode, but as for the episode itself it had a lot of flash sure enough, but very little substance, I guess it was decent enough to be an adequate episode. Nothing really bad or negative to say, I just feel like something is still missing, I felt empty after watching this, can't exactlt place my finger on it.

Highlight was the last minute or two of Goku punking Jiren, Vegeta spitting the truth, and finally, Beerus voicing the fandom's thoughts by telling the peanut gallery to STFU and just observe.
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Re: Super Episode 129 (4 March 2018)

Post by GamerSkull » Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:12 am

Episode was okay... but the re-used stuff was a bit annoying.

I hope 130 doesn't disappoint. Another two week wait.
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Re: Super Episode 129 (4 March 2018)

Post by Asura » Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:13 am

I'm a bit disappointed. Maybe I hyped myself up too much, but I guess I was expecting a lot more for the climactic fight of the arc. The first half really kinda disappointed me, it had some great storyboarding and writing, but the fact that the vast majority of the fight was reused animation is simply unacceptable. THIS IS THE FINAL FIGHT OF THE SHOW, HOW CAN YOU HAVE THIS MUCH DAMN RE-USED ANIMATION? WTF IS GOING ON? This makes me really concerned for 130. They really showed little to nothing in that preview, so I guess we'll have to see.

But what was good was very good. The second half was obviously way stronger than the first, and the final 5 minutes were incredible. How did Goku's shirt magically disappear though? It was just on one minute and in tatters the next :lol:. Vegeta was great this episode, and while I felt there was too much of the peanut gallery, at least what they were saying was somewhat informative.

If this was any other episode I would have labeled it as fantastic, but considering it's literally the finale of the arc, I gotta say I really am somewhat disappointed in it. It just didn't feel like it had much substance. A lot of pretty explosions, and good animation, but nothing stood out to me very much.

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Re: Super Episode 129 (4 March 2018)

Post by TheOtherDude » Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:49 am

8bitdee wrote:Man, people here give this show so much shit.

I thought it was a pretty great episode, and afterwards I came here to discuss it and all I read is complaints about the animation. When I watched it I didn't even notice anything reused except for that bit from the OP of the exchanging of punches. Yet apparently there was SO MUCH reused animation enough to trigger people. I guess there is an unfortunate downside to being a super hardcore fan that people notice stuff like that to trigger them.

I didn't notice anything wrong with the episode, animation wise. I loved it and the next one looks even better.

Plot wise, however. That's another story.
I really hope that the mastered UI gives Goku some sort of character. The main reason I dislike this transformation right now is because it has turned him Jiren. A robot. He has no emotion, other than screaming every now and then. I want my main characters to have character to them; to react to things, to talk, to struggle, to laugh... you know, the things that make them relatable. I don't mind his ascension to godhood as long as he doesn't turn into an emotionless uninteresting character. Hopefully during next week's episode we get to see that Toriyama and Toei haven't taken away Goku's humanity for the sake of another hair color.
Goku seemed kinda “emotionless” in a few of his transformations. It’s the intimidation factor. When SSJ and SSJ3 First appeared, Goku had his serious face on. Depending on where the series goes after this arc, we might have to wait before we see a more comical/normal view of his transformation.

As far as the animation goes, it wouldn’t bother me so much if it didn’t happen so frequently throughout the tournament. Given all the stuff that’s happened throughout this series, Toei comes across as really lazy at times. I understand that they’re a busy company, but why not bring your absolute best when working on your most profitable series? A fight between the two strongest mortals in this tournament is having animation we have already seen them go through. I don’t think it’s too wrong to want more original content for the climax of the series.

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Re: Super Episode 129 (4 March 2018)

Post by JazzMazz » Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:54 am

TheOtherDude wrote:
8bitdee wrote:Man, people here give this show so much shit.

I thought it was a pretty great episode, and afterwards I came here to discuss it and all I read is complaints about the animation. When I watched it I didn't even notice anything reused except for that bit from the OP of the exchanging of punches. Yet apparently there was SO MUCH reused animation enough to trigger people. I guess there is an unfortunate downside to being a super hardcore fan that people notice stuff like that to trigger them.

I didn't notice anything wrong with the episode, animation wise. I loved it and the next one looks even better.

Plot wise, however. That's another story.
I really hope that the mastered UI gives Goku some sort of character. The main reason I dislike this transformation right now is because it has turned him Jiren. A robot. He has no emotion, other than screaming every now and then. I want my main characters to have character to them; to react to things, to talk, to struggle, to laugh... you know, the things that make them relatable. I don't mind his ascension to godhood as long as he doesn't turn into an emotionless uninteresting character. Hopefully during next week's episode we get to see that Toriyama and Toei haven't taken away Goku's humanity for the sake of another hair color.
Goku seemed kinda “emotionless” in a few of his transformations. It’s the intimidation factor. When SSJ and SSJ3 First appeared, Goku had his serious face on. Depending on where the series goes after this arc, we might have to wait before we see a more comical/normal view of his transformation.

As far as the animation goes, it wouldn’t bother me so much if it didn’t happen so frequently throughout the tournament. Given all the stuff that’s happened throughout this series, Toei comes across as really lazy at times. I understand that they’re a busy company, but why not bring your absolute best when working on your most profitable series? A fight between the two strongest mortals in this tournament is having animation we have already seen them go through. I don’t think it’s too wrong to want more original content for the climax of the series.
Lack of interest from there absolute best to work on Super.

As for this episode though, I think it was very clearly sacrificed for next episode, because this episode had literally none of Super consistent action specialists on it. Also, judging from the preview, it looks like Supers best action specialists are working on it, so I think its safe to assume this was kind of sacrificed for next episode.

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Re: Super Episode 129 (4 March 2018)

Post by OLKv3 » Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:02 am

I don't know how this show always gets me hyped during transformations even when I know exactly what's about to happen lmao. I went in bored and left the episode screaming LET'S GO KICK HIS ASS GOKU
Loved the character interactions and Beerus being all into the fight
The scene with all the GoDs slowly standing was great. The final "Did he? Yes." was awesome
The actual fight was full of reused animation but the dialogue and presentation of Goku's ascension carried the episode and boosted it so much

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Re: Super Episode 129 (4 March 2018)

Post by lancerman » Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:14 am

Artorias wrote:
Totamo wrote:
Artorias wrote:
Super has done this A LOT in this tournament and it's genuinely starting to annoy me now. The first 80% of every episode is usually mundane for the sake of building up to a crazy ridiculous climax. That's not how you balance a narrative. There should be build up, but not to the point where I'm just kinda sitting around waiting for the "real" shit to start. As you said, spread the hype across the 22 minutes, don't condense it into the last 2.
No, but this tournament isn't about the narrative. Its about the fight and z did this nonsense a lot before we got to great stuff, freeza's 4 hour fight to super saiyan, Gohan's fight with cell to the one handed kamehameha, the vegito fight just to get inside.



Toei is KNOWN for dragging crap out to save animation for the big stuff, check out Luffy vs Doffy.
Those examples are all over SEVERAL episodes. I'm talking strictly about the flow within ONE episode. And in that case, DB and DBZ did not do this. They didn't have a basic ass fight with reserved or reused animation, only to then blow their load on one massive bombastic ridiculous set piece at the very end. The whole episode was usually pretty entertaining throughout and had a nice balance of "hype", with a little bit of an extra "oomph" at the very end to build excitement for the next episode.
Is it really a whole a lot better if Z does the exact same formula over several episodes and Super usually confines it to one? It's the same thing. Nothing matter's till Freeza transforms, then nothing matters till Goku goes Super Saiyan. Nothing matters until Cell reaches his perfect form. Nothing matters until Gohan goes SSJ2. The entire Boo fight was just waiting around for Boo to absorb someday. Z did this a lot. Z maybe didn't reuses animation, but they had plenty of BS standing around doing nothing but powering up for an entire episode and pretty much nothing battle techniques. Dragon Ball was a lot better in that regard as each battle had far more flow and was segmented around a certain sequence or technique, which was superior.

Like we knew going in that the point was Goku mastering UI. I don't know how anybody went into this episode thinking anything but "Goku and Jiren fight and towards the end Goku is going to master UI to set up the final stretch of the battle". That was always the most logical way for it to play out. I think the problem had a lot more to do with Goku doing this twice before. When he fought Kefla, and the prior episode before he went to unmastered UI. Then I guess you can count Vegeta going Royal Blue. So 3 episodes out of the whole tournament they centered everything around a transformation sequence at the end. I think that's happened for nearly every major transformation in the series.

Freeza's perfect form, Goku going SSJ, Gohan going SSJ2, Vegeta going SSJ, Majin Vegeta, Goku going SSJ3, etc.

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Re: Super Episode 129 (4 March 2018)

Post by ZenkaiBoosts » Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:22 am

This episode (129) was orgasmic.

I'm still speechless. I was glued into my seat the whole time with eyes fixated on the screen. You could just lose yourself in the epicness. At the end of the day, if you enjoy something thats what matters. And this episode had me feeling like no other. Son Goku baby !

Episode 129 has now become my greatest episode in Super - and one of my greatest episodes in Dragon Ball history. Goku's transoformation scene especially was one of the greatest moments in anime, ever. I will go into greater detail in upcoming posts. I still want to rewatch 129 a few more times.

The last 3 episodes of Super have all been 10s (127 & 128 prior). What a great run. I always knew Toriyama/Toei were going to hit the ending out of the ballpark. Thank you Toriyama/Toei.

Even though I'm so happy we got another AMAZING episode in 129, its settling in again that there will be another 2 week wait for the next episide. I will be sad that we will have another week with no Super. But if its like 129, then the wait will be more then worth it, again. On to 130 and Son Goku baby ! So hyped. The legend of prodigious Son Goku RISES !

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Re: Super Episode 129 (4 March 2018)

Post by Cipher » Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:32 am

Fun episode in the last few minutes, and there's a nice sense of visual scale, but I can't help but feel underwhelmed even as the true climax of the arc kicks off, I think largely because everything leading up to it felt so disconnected and episodic. It's the only one of the four anime series where I've had this kind of feeling moving into the final fight.

I like the full Migatte no Gokui design though.

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Re: Super Episode 129 (4 March 2018)

Post by dbzfan7 » Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:39 am

Artorias wrote:Those examples are all over SEVERAL episodes. I'm talking strictly about the flow within ONE episode. And in that case, DB and DBZ did not do this. They didn't have a basic ass fight with reserved or reused animation, only to then blow their load on one massive bombastic ridiculous set piece at the very end. The whole episode was usually pretty entertaining throughout and had a nice balance of "hype", with a little bit of an extra "oomph" at the very end to build excitement for the next episode.
Dragon Ball/Z/GT were never shy of reusing animation...but had they used recycled animation from different fights and repasted them? Or did they just recycle footage from the current fight. There's been plenty of the latter for sure. Though I don't think I've seen a fight scene use reanimation from a whole different fight scene, rather than just looping some footage that came from the same fight. Though maybe the GT over used shot of Omega charging forward towards the camera might have been in more than one episode. I don't quite remember.
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Re: Super Episode 129 (4 March 2018)

Post by KingKaash » Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:52 am

I waited 2 weeks for that episode and it was totally worth it! It wasn't perfect at first but it ended on an insanely high note. The only issue I had with the episode was too much commentary from the audience. I wanted to see Goku and Jiren fight not see Krillin talk about how worried he is. It was a bit excessive to me. The only commentary I liked was Vegeta talking about the Saiyans ability to break through and it showed both U6 & U7 Saiyans. That was strong. Anyways so when Beerus dropped the "Shut up and watch" line I was applauding that :clap:

As for the fighting, Jiren's finishing move in this episode was a rain-down barrage of punches to destroy either Goku or the floor and I like that because that's something new and different from beam battles or Spirit Bombs. And the Ultra Instinct transformation was one of the highest points in all of DBS. The galactic aura display that Goku used to transform into Ultra Instinct was beautiful. If this show would've continued I think that transformation sequence would've been amazing to use again. Jiren actually smirks and fires off a supernova ki blast which was epic, only for UI Goku to catch and knock it away like nothing. My jaw dropped because of how incredible that was!!! :o And then you see Jiren the great even in shock of what he's facing and Goku obliterates him. And then all the Gods stand up at once to recognize how epic the birth of Ultra Instinct Goku is. Bravo ending :thumbup:

As for Goku already attaining completed Ultra Instinct in a matter actual seconds which is something even of God of Destructions have difficulty with, to me I'll consider it because Jiren is the ultimate fighting opponent to push him there.
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