Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

[jeffbr92]

This is just ridiculous to the point they think the audience will eat every shit they drop it.

And their thoughts are substantiated, as even after all the plot problems people complain about, DBS is as popular is its ever been. The Crunchyroll servers went completely down, I had to find alternative means to watch this. People will come back for more, and you will too next week, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

So? What are you a Toei employee or something? Are you getting paid for them to rebut criticism with lousy arguments of audience and profit? Good luck with that.

[Doctor.]

I agree with all the bold parts, but I don't agree with you saying characters were getting stronger because of their loved ones... Who in this episode did that? The only thing that I saw was Goku pissed because Jiren trying (ridiculously) murder his friends.

Khai and Belmod specifically state Goku's speed and strength increased after Goku's speech about how everyone's counting on him and Piccolo and Roshi explain that Goku's gotten stronger because he has everyone's support. Later, after Jiren got stronger himself and tried to kill them, Goku gets stronger after talking about how he won't forgive someone for trying to hurt his friends, in typical One Piece/Naruto/Fairy Tail fashion.

Jiren himself didn't get a friendship power-up. He got the opposite of that. He got a power-up by remembering his traumatic past and refusing to acknowledge friendship as a source of strength.

Jesus, this script reads like a Naruto vs Sasuke fight.

[ToshioWrites]

Also the questions about where the show could go from there now that goku had raw power surpassing Gods + the ability to move instinctly were answered tonight. RAW power trumps everything. The next enemies don't need UI to beat goku in a fight if they have the raw power to overwhelm

[Kaiosama]

[/quote]WTF? So not staying in the final three in the tournament nullifies the highlight he had during the entire DBS? Where did he stand out like Goku? Undoes the highlight he had in the final battle against U11, in which Vegeta had at least 4 episodes focused on him? What you're saying is meaningless.
Vegeta will not be forgotten, do not count on it[/quote]

You're just salty that 17 and Freeza have surpassed Vegeta in importance in the narrative for this tournament. Times are changing bud.

[ToshioWrites]

WTF? So not staying in the final three in the tournament nullifies the highlight he had during the entire DBS? Where did he stand out like Goku? Undoes the highlight he had in the final battle against U11, in which Vegeta had at least 4 episodes focused on him? What you're saying is meaningless.
Vegeta will not be forgotten, do not count on it[/quote]

You're just salty that 17 and Freeza have surpassed Vegeta in importance in the narrative for this tournament. Times are changing bud.[/quote]

The next movie is literally about the saiyans, i love 17 but he's not surpassing vegeta in importance going forward and freeza most likely is not either. Thats wishful thinking on your part.

[TBMx]

My feeling on episode 130:


<Self-promotional video link removed by moderator. Use your words instead of farming for clicks and views.>

Mindless flash with no story is tedious.

[WittyUsername]

You're kidding, right? I don't think we have watched the same series. Despite some questionable actions, Goku has always been about protecting his friends.

I’m not saying he doesn’t give a crap about his friends, but this idea that they’re the reason he’s made it as far as he has just doesn’t sit well with me.

[TheShadowEmperor8055]

Also the questions about where the show could go from there now that goku had raw power surpassing Gods + the ability to move instinctly were answered tonight. RAW power trumps everything. The next enemies don't need UI to beat goku in a fight if they have the raw power to overwhelm

Yes, indeed. Many could make a legitimate argument that DBZ has always been this way (not that I disagree with that), but that doesn't make it any less annoying at times...

[HybridSaiyan]

You're kidding, right? I don't think we have watched the same series. Despite some questionable actions, Goku has always been about protecting his friends.

I’m not saying he doesn’t give a crap about his friends, but this idea that they’re the reason he’s made it as far as he has just doesn’t sit well with me.

Yeah . . . most of his training to get stronger was pretty much all for himself and to defend the Earth. He wasn't thinking of his friends In other world when he attained SSJ2/3.

[8bitdee]

Yeah, because he was really interesting before.

I didn't claim that. He was a bad character then and he's a terrible character now. All I'm saying is that they could have done something interesting with him. Him being a superhero with such a personality could have been the source of an interesting conflict. But they seemingly ignored to address Jiren's personality until the last few episodes and now they're forgetting all about the fact that he's a superhero and villanizing him for the sake of the spectacle.

No, they could have not done anything interesting with him in the last two episodes. Complaining that NOW Jiren has been ruined is just nonsense. He was ruined long before today.

I'll say this again: that's a good excuse but it's a shame the show doesn't give enough of a shit to give it to you.

... except it's GIVING it you, right in front of your face. They even zoom in on his body to show it off. For someone who's complaining that visuals to do all the talking, now you want exposition? It's a show for kids, and things like are OBVIOUS explanations given so kids can understand. That you can't catch it is not the show's fault.

The second one is filler so I won't even bother addressing it because Toei has an obsession with melodrama (exhibit A: this episode). As to the other two: again, it comes down to execution. The original series was a lot more subtle and nuanced in regards to how it handled its emotional moments and the very rare emotional speeches were never tied to the increase in strength. Vegeta's sacrifice doesn't boost his strength at all and it accomplishes nothing. #16's speech was liberating, but it was his death that pushed Gohan further beyond. And look what happens when he transforms: no speeches about "protecting my friends!", no flashbacks. The visuals and the music do the talking. Compare that to the way the power-ups were executed this episode and realize how they're not comparable in the slightest.

I just think it's hilarious that you're so triggered for what was about 30 seconds of flashbacks enough to call it bad writing.

I’m not saying he doesn’t give a crap about his friends, but this idea that they’re the reason he’s made it as far as he has just doesn’t sit well with me.

Except it's the truth. Goku is where he is because of everything he has gone through. All the people he has met, all the people he fought who are now his friends, and have become a reason for him to protect, give him the power to surpass his limits. As much as he wants to fight people for his pleasure, his love for his friends are what have pushed him past his limits. It's what Goku is known for. It's typical for of a shounen character, and Goku is not an exception to the rule. I dont understand why it's such a foreign concept for you now.

[jeffbr92]

Khai and Belmod specifically state Goku's speed and strength increased after Goku's speech about how everyone's counting on him and Piccolo and Roshi explain that Goku's gotten stronger because he has everyone's support. Later, after Jiren got stronger himself and tried to kill them, Goku gets stronger after talking about how he won't forgive someone for trying to hurt his friends, in typical One Piece/Naruto/Fairy Tail fashion.

But can we atribute that to the speech and not that Goku was unleashing more and more power through the MUI? Also Roshi explaining that Goku got stronger due everyone support he meant on this same battle? I though he meant through his life. About Jiren I agree and Vegeta explaining made everything worse.

[8bitdee]

This is just ridiculous to the point they think the audience will eat every shit they drop it.

And their thoughts are substantiated, as even after all the plot problems people complain about, DBS is as popular is its ever been. The Crunchyroll servers went completely down, I had to find alternative means to watch this. People will come back for more, and you will too next week, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

So? What are you a Toei employee or something? Are you getting paid for them to rebut criticism with lousy arguments of audience and profit? Good luck with that.

Maybe I am
But am I wrong? Did I provide incorrect facts about people eating up what Toei is giving them? Are you not gonna watch next week's episode?

[Kokonoe]

Man... They really botched the Jiren character as that whole exchange throughout the fight and the audience talking about Goku's motivation was the most absolutely generic thing they could've came up with and it ended up making me cringe.

To make matters worse, Android 17 is somehow alive and no one noticed him all this time and it undermines the whole death thing they just introduced. There was some decent action bits in the later half I'll give this episode that, but from a narrative point of view I'm really disappointed. I expected after all these weeks they'd write this episode better but they really dropped the ball.

[Doctor.]

No, they could have not done anything interesting with him in the last two episodes. Complaining that NOW Jiren has been ruined is just nonsense. He was ruined long before today.

I'm not complaining that he's been ruined NOW. I'm claiming that now he's even WORSE. I don't see how this is hard to understand nor do I see why you're arguing against me if you agree Jiren is terrible.

... except it's GIVING it you, right in front of your face. They even zoom in on his body to show it off. For someone who's complaining that visuals to do all the talking, now you want exposition? It's a show for kids, and things like are OBVIOUS explanations given so kids can understand. That you can't catch it is not the show's fault.

Ambiguous visual cues aren't an explanation, especially not in a show that uses the same aura effects for everything (does SSR Trunks have God ki or not? We don't know! We also don't care!) and likes to talk for 90% of its runtime.

I just think it's hilarious that you're so triggered for what was about 30 seconds of flashbacks enough to call it bad writing.

Is this your version of "Nothing personnel, kid"?

Not even sure what your point is anymore. I just think you're arguing for the sake of arguing.

[JazzMazz]

Man... They really botched the Jiren character as that whole exchange throughout the fight and the audience talking about Goku's motivation was the most absolutely generic thing they could've came up with and it ended up making me cringe.

To make matters worse, Android 17 is somehow alive and no one noticed him all this time and it undermines the whole death thing they just introduced. There was some decent action bits in the later half I'll give this episode that, but from a narrative point of view I'm really disappointed. I expected after all these weeks they'd write this episode better but they really dropped the ball.

What about the action in the first half?

[Professor Freeza]

THIS HAS TO BE IN THE TOP 3 DB EPISODE OF ALL TIME

Seriously animation wise nothing comes close.

Also it had extreme drama, great storytelling... shocks, twists...

And BLOOD

TOEI has delivered when it had to....


WHAT A FUCKING SPECTACLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[HybridSaiyan]

THIS HAS TO BE IN THE TOP 3 DB EPISODE OF ALL TIME

Seriously animation wise nothing comes close.

Also it had extreme drama, great storytelling... shocks, twists...

And BLOOD

TOEI has delivered when it had to....


WHAT A FUCKING SPECTACLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Where did you spot blood? Because I must have missed It . . .

[lord turbo]

On the other hand, I’m not a big fan of them going through the whole “power of friendship” trope. That’s way too cliche for a shonen series.

It's not too cliche for a shounen series when 99% of shounen is all about "teaching" that lesson. That's like complaining that a horror film has a scene that takes place in the dark.

But that hasn’t really been what Dragon Ball has generally been about. The fact that Goku has a reputation for being a selfish jerk is probably a testament to the fact that DB isn’t really a series about friendship.

This, Toriyama intentionally makes Goku the opposite of the standard rank file shonen protaganist by making him a selfish guy that merely fights for his own desires and benefits. That is what makes him unique and stand out above the generic typical shonen main characters like Gon, Toriko, Yusuke, Naruto, Ichigo, Seiya, Luffy, and so on.

Hell, the previous episode illustrates this through Whis' dialogue abouy Goku not being concerned with any of that bland generic hero mess, he's suppose to share similar qualities to Akuma (Street Fighter), Augus (Asura's Wrath), and Zaraki Kenpachi (Bleach). If I'm not mistaken Toriyama verbally mentions his displeasures when Toei writes Goku like that and can't figure out that selfish nature of Goku that's like poison thay slips in and out.

Also, rofl at the writers completely saying screw Jiren's suppose hero personality and going full on cry baby jerk villain with Jiren intentionally aimming to kill Goku's allies out of pure spite.

[Super Saiyan Swagger]

Loved that little moment where Toppo finally realised that Goku might just not be the villain that he thought he was. I was afraid that Toei weren't going to go back to that.

[Forte224]

That animation was insane!!!!!! This episode was pretty much flawless for me until the 17 reveal. It was so random that he lived through a self-destruct. It literally goes against the term "self-destruct" but I guess Vegeta did the same thing so...ya know. Also, for a form that supposedly means you can move without thinking, it didn't really show in this episode. It just seemed like a new form that was ultra powerful, not a mastered ability that has flawless finesse.

Anyway, amazing animation, great choreography, a very small bit of Goku growth, reanimated flashbacks that look like they belong with the old art style but still look fresh and new (seriously, can we get a new show where that's the art direction?), very little interruption from the peanut gallery, etc. I mean, goodness gracious. Let's hope next week ends it properly.