Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

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Koitsukai
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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by Koitsukai » Sun Mar 18, 2018 3:52 am

It was really really nice to see Jiren completely defeated, asking to get eliminated almost as Schwarzenegger did against the Predator, totally overpowered and impotent... JIREN!!! Jiren laying down there with nothing left, but damn did they really had to make Goku lose his power??? will Goku actually get 0 wins in this series??? not even this fight will he win?

I don't care about 17 or the obvious Freeza revival, I just really needed Goku to end things with a bang, to bury this guy, not the Vegito defuse drama all over again.

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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by 8bitdee » Sun Mar 18, 2018 3:58 am

Koitsukai wrote: I just really needed Goku to end things with a bang, to bury this guy, not the Vegito defuse drama all over again.
131 is titled "A Miraculous Conclusion!" so I'm thinking it will be some sort of deus ex machina finale like Goku Black arc and not a typical "Goku saves the day" ending.

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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by Michsi » Sun Mar 18, 2018 4:15 am

Obligatory post to squeal over ep. 130.

Animation was fantastic, action packed , with a pinch of emotion.

I haven't read the whole thread, but it seems there is some discussion refarding the "power of friendship".

Personally, I thought it was handled well and that it isn't contradicting anything we know about Goku. Yes, he fights for himself and his desire to surpass his own limits, but it's ludicrous to assume that in a situation such as this, with everyone's lives on the line, that he would not be thinking of them and fight for them as well. Goku's selfishness is childlike, but it never crossed into heartlessness. And it's not the first time he did this; BOG has a very similar scene.

Also, it's very clearly meant to contradict Jiren's stance on the matter, which I think was nice.

I get that people are annoyed at the "power of friendship", but DB uses this trope so rarely, specifically in Goku's case, that it's actually a nice switch from "I fight for myself/my pride/my power/ my justice etc"

The only real complaint that I have is #17 reveal being so jarringly anticlimactic. Also, the Freeza/17 team up just boggles me from a writing perspective. I feel no excitement whatsoever from this concept.

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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by Majin Jator » Sun Mar 18, 2018 4:21 am

What a beautiful episode! They're really taking this last battle seriously.
I have some nitpicks: C17 reappearance is quite a stretch, and Jiren attacking the people in the benches feels off (shouldn't he be at least scolded by that, if not erased?).
I can look past those things thanks to the awesome battle, tho.

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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by emperior » Sun Mar 18, 2018 4:43 am

What an amazing episode. It gets a well deserved 10/10. :clap:
The animation was fantastic and breath-taking, the storyboard and the direction too... words just can't express how happy I feel about this episode.
130 has everything I love about Dragon Ball. Good dialogues, an awesome 1v1 battle (featuring a shirtless Goku!), great Ki blasts and plot twists. I liked when Krillin told how Goku brought them all together, that scene was really well directed and it is exactly the type of nostalgia I absolutely love - it was very fitting for that specific moment, and Toppo, the guy who called Goku evil, was there to listen while his sworn-friend was there in the ring acting like the villain of the situation. It was also the first time the characters acknowledged just how important Goku is for the bunch of them, and how him too wouldn't have gone that far without his friends: this wasn't cliche friendship, because the friendship part was always there in Dragon Ball.
Another incredibly well-directed moment was when Goku lost UI: did he actually bleed? It was definitely nexpected and Jiren's farewell dialogue was also really well-written. Goku won the battle, he had Jiren at his feet and I'm happy about it. Now fans won't complain UI Goku "jobbed". Sure, he didn't ring out Jiren but as Beerus said, it's undeniable that the battle was won by Goku.

Jiren himself was finally well-written in this episode. His inner contrast really expanded upon his character, and the moment he tried to kill Goku's friends really showed how conflicted Jiren really is. I must say that after this episode I like his character, and we still don't even know what his wish is!

And in a final twist, the MVP is back! I'm so happy to see 17 is still alive. He is my favorite character of this arc along with Goku and Freeza, so it's nice to see the final battle will feature the 3 of them working together to win the ToP.
I was sure that, in the end, this tournament would have culminated into a very good finale. This is among the best arcs of Dragon Ball, for me, and I can't wait to see how the whole tournament will wrap up. Will 17 get his boat trip? Will the universes get brought back?

In just a week Super will end. A few years ago I would have never expected my favorite show to come back, and after a rather bad start it has definitely picked up and delivered us some good stories and battles. I will definitely miss watching a new episode every week, so I hope it will come back soon. Dragon Ball stories aren't over yet, and it's re-assuring to know it. I want it to go on for a lot of years.
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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by ekrolo2 » Sun Mar 18, 2018 5:05 am

Ah the sad instance when the trend setter starts copying the bad stuff from his knock offs and successors. Make no mistake, this is Fairy Tail, Naruto and One Piece idiocy at full display.

Besides that, it's just the Super special again except with the writing quality substantially worse.
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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by Onibaku » Sun Mar 18, 2018 5:18 am

This was undeniably the best Dragon Ball episode to date, ever.

From the brilliant and flawless animation, to the plot twists and the amazing Goku's "I'm no hero of justice or anything" line. That shit gave me goosebumps.

Also the MVP is bacK? This episode is just amazing

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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by kemuri07 » Sun Mar 18, 2018 5:25 am

I just...

Some of you need to rewatch/read DB/Z as soon as possible if you honestly believe that this is the best thing in DB history.

That is some full-on ignorance there.

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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by Artorias » Sun Mar 18, 2018 5:26 am

That "I'm not some hero of justice" line was so meta lmao. I know there's a 99.9% chance that wasn't a reference to the dub or anything, but in my head they were calling Funi out. Loved it.
kemuri07 wrote:I just...

Some of you need to rewatch/read DB/Z as soon as possible if you honestly believe that this is the best thing in DB history.

That is some full-on ignorance there.
To be real, the people saying this is "the best thing in DB history" overall are in a pretty big minority. Its more just that was the best single FIGHT in DB history, which I'd say is pretty damn inarguable. Obviously the narrative is lacking HARD, but I think most people recognize that and are just enjoying the fun bombast of it all.
Last edited by Artorias on Sun Mar 18, 2018 5:39 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by Saturnine » Sun Mar 18, 2018 5:27 am

Well, everything's been said already, pretty much:
- The animation was god tier, clearly
- Amazing plot twists
- Added characterization for Jiren. He's more like a redeemable Naruto villain or early Byakuya from Bleach or something
- Even ZenkaiBoosts will be happy, since Goku technically beat Jiren at his best
- I will be happy too, since it may not be Goku (or Goku alone) that saves the day, which is always welcome
- Goku's characterization was beautifully accentuated - he does indeed treasure his friends and wants to protect them, but he's no hero of justice at all. FUNi will probably feel pretty stupid when they get to dubbing this line :lol:
- I also like how it's said that Goku's gone so far thanks to his friends' support. He is just a very talented guy who happens to have a good influence on people, but he has his limitations. This contrasts very well with GT's "Hey, I'm base Goku and I'm suddenly be stronger than SSj4 Gogeta, because I'm motherfucking Goku" thingy. His being special was forced upon us way more there, in fact he was portrayed as more godly than in Super, where he's achieved actual deification.
- 30 seconds left and 3 U7 fighters left! I really wonder how they're going to tie all this up in a single episode, while providing a decent ending to the arc!

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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by Simere » Sun Mar 18, 2018 5:32 am

Michsi wrote:I haven't read the whole thread, but it seems there is some discussion refarding the "power of friendship".

Personally, I thought it was handled well and that it isn't contradicting anything we know about Goku. Yes, he fights for himself and his desire to surpass his own limits, but it's ludicrous to assume that in a situation such as this, with everyone's lives on the line, that he would not be thinking of them and fight for them as well. Goku's selfishness is childlike, but it never crossed into heartlessness. And it's not the first time he did this; BOG has a very similar scene.

Also, it's very clearly meant to contradict Jiren's stance on the matter, which I think was nice.
A few episodes ago when Vegeta was receiving nakama power, so many people were going on about how Vegeta has more motivation to win than anyone and that he should win because of that. As if he's the only one in the tournament who has a family. Why didn't it save Krillin? Obuni? Selectively rewarding love with tangible power sends the message that only that character's love matters. I mean, that's not what they're trying to say, but that's how it comes across to me. And what's it say when nothing comes of it? Did Jiren not love his family and his master? Did they not love him? Did Goku falter at the end of this episode because he didn't love strongly enough?

That's my typical gripe with nakama power, plus the feeling that it cheapens actual effort. For Goku in this arc particularly, though, the theme that resonated mostly strongly was that the fight itself is what matters. It's the message of the Ultimate Battle song, and Ultra Instinct is the embodiment of it. Whis's speech last episode about Goku expelling all other distractions from his focus besides the fight was perfect. For Goku the next episode to say, "This is our power!"...I'm going to pretend it didn't happen.

Goku's purity is the most unique part of his character. That's the contrast I'd keep in focus: their differing attitudes towards strength. I will say, though, that I found it hilarious when Jiren tried to kill them. That saved the episode for me. Made Goku start acting in a way that didn't rub me wrong again.
I get that people are annoyed at the "power of friendship", but DB uses this trope so rarely, specifically in Goku's case, that it's actually a nice switch from "I fight for myself/my pride/my power/ my justice etc"
I'd say it's so heavily prominent in shonen, though, that even if DB as a whole hasn't it used it that much it's going to feel trite. Plus it had a big role in the last arc too.

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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by Artorias » Sun Mar 18, 2018 5:39 am

Not much I can add that hasn't already been said. Amazing animation, stellar music, excellent pacing and speed, beautiful direction, sidelines commentary was sparing and actually relevant, Jiren was actually kinda (let me stress KINDA) interesting, Goku was the straight-faced beast I've wanted him to be since Super began, and of course the incredible double twist at the end. Very memorable episode on all fronts, at least in terms of presentation.

I will say, though, to keep things realistic here, anyone claiming that this is the "best episode in DB" or anything close to that needs to take a breather. It's still lacking horribly in the narrative and characters, the two most important things in a story. It was hype. It was a spectacle. But it's still almost all style and little substance, like much of this tournament. And whenever the episode DID try to have some substance with the Goku fighting for his friends thing, it just came off as cringey and played out to me. I got no real emotion from that at all.

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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by kemuri07 » Sun Mar 18, 2018 5:40 am

Artorias wrote:That "I'm not some hero of justice" line was so meta lmao. I know there's a 99.9% chance that wasn't a reference to the dub or anything, but in my head they were calling Funi out. Loved it.
kemuri07 wrote:I just...

Some of you need to rewatch/read DB/Z as soon as possible if you honestly believe that this is the best thing in DB history.

That is some full-on ignorance there.
I haven't really seen many people saying it's "the best thing in DB history" overall. Its more just that was the best single FIGHT in DB history, which I'd say is pretty damn inarguable. Obviously the narrative is lacking HARD, but I think most people recognize that and are just enjoying the fun bombast of it all.
And that's still wrong. I get enjoying the bombast, I really do. It's the reason why I kept watching Super. But to say it's the single best fight in the history of the franchise? That's...man as someone who thinks he's pretty chill, especially compared to, well, a lot of the users of this site--that's straight up blasphemous.

What you're reacting to is the loud noises, pretty lights, and money being thrown at the budget. It's shiny and new and thats why you're going ballistic. I'm not going to sit here and say I wasn't impressed by the fight, but I'd gladly put several fights from Z (fuck it I'll put some from DB too) over this one any day. It's all spectacle and no substance. Nothing matters because Super has continually dropped the narrative ball where nothing really matters. Theres no tension, no consequences--Super is the very thing that people make fun of Z for.

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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by Kataphrut » Sun Mar 18, 2018 5:41 am

Artorias wrote:That "I'm not some hero of justice" line was so meta lmao. I know there's a 99.9% chance that wasn't a reference to the dub or anything, but in my head they were calling Funi out. Loved it.
When Funi gets to that point in the dub, I wouldn't put it past them to have Sean say "I'm no hope of the universe." lol

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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by Artorias » Sun Mar 18, 2018 5:43 am

kemuri07 wrote:
Artorias wrote:That "I'm not some hero of justice" line was so meta lmao. I know there's a 99.9% chance that wasn't a reference to the dub or anything, but in my head they were calling Funi out. Loved it.
kemuri07 wrote:I just...

Some of you need to rewatch/read DB/Z as soon as possible if you honestly believe that this is the best thing in DB history.

That is some full-on ignorance there.
I haven't really seen many people saying it's "the best thing in DB history" overall. Its more just that was the best single FIGHT in DB history, which I'd say is pretty damn inarguable. Obviously the narrative is lacking HARD, but I think most people recognize that and are just enjoying the fun bombast of it all.
And that's still wrong. I get enjoying the bombast, I really do. It's the reason why I kept watching Super. But to say it's the single best fight in the history of the franchise? That's...man as someone who thinks he's pretty chill, especially compared to, well, a lot of the users of this site--that's straight up blasphemous.

What you're reacting to is the loud noises, pretty lights, and money being thrown at the budget. It's shiny and new and thats why you're going ballistic. I'm not going to sit here and say I wasn't impressed by the fight, but I'd gladly put several fights from Z (fuck it I'll put some from DB too) over this one any day. It's all spectacle and no substance. Nothing matters because Super has continually dropped the narrative ball where nothing really matters. Theres no tension, no consequences--Super is the very thing that people make fun of Z for.
Perhaps I should have clarified further. When I say "best fight" I mean specifically in terms of animation and direction. The emotion and story surrounding the fight doesn't come close to anything from DB/DBZ, I get that. I'm strictly talking about the literal actual combat itself.
Kataphrut wrote:
Artorias wrote:That "I'm not some hero of justice" line was so meta lmao. I know there's a 99.9% chance that wasn't a reference to the dub or anything, but in my head they were calling Funi out. Loved it.
When Funi gets to that point in the dub, I wouldn't put it past them to have Sean say "I'm no hope of the universe." lol
Would be brilliant, honestly. And it's something I can actually picture them doing. Funi's proven they aren't afraid to be a bit meta with their dialogue.

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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by Amir » Sun Mar 18, 2018 5:53 am

Lmao, then what do you think was the best thing ever in DB then? Gohan's SSJ2 transformation? Yeah right, the narrative was lacking there as well. It was not much different or better written than this power of friendship UI Goku in Super.

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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by Artorias » Sun Mar 18, 2018 5:55 am

Amir wrote:Lmao, then what do you think was the best thing ever in DB then? Gohan's SSJ2 transformation? Yeah right, the narrative was lacking there as well. It was not much different or better written than this power of friendship UI Goku in Super.
I actually find that entire section of DBZ overrated as hell, and I STILL think the SSJ2 transformation has more narrative impact than anything in this tournament.

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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by A21Fan » Sun Mar 18, 2018 6:05 am

At first i thought Frieza attacked Goku when he lost his mastered UI ^^

I also didnt expect that C17 is still alive.

Cant wait for the next episode.
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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by Amir » Sun Mar 18, 2018 6:05 am

Artorias wrote:
Amir wrote:Lmao, then what do you think was the best thing ever in DB then? Gohan's SSJ2 transformation? Yeah right, the narrative was lacking there as well. It was not much different or better written than this power of friendship UI Goku in Super.
I actually find that entire section of DBZ overrated as hell, and I STILL think the SSJ2 transformation has more narrative impact than anything in this tournament.
Impact? Debatable. Maybe because of it's incredibly well done execution but not because of the narrative, it was very simple, cliche, not any different than SSJ and his usual rage boosts and not to mention flawed, as all of it was basically pissing Gohan off so he could unleash his hidden potential which had been unleashed prior and was also unleashed again after that event, and especially since the final trigger was 16, a character that had nothing to do with Gohan. That's right, the transformation didn't make much sense, Gohan even had managed to transform in the ROSAT which was even worse.

I say it wasn't better than Goku's and Jiren's conflict over power of trust and friendship. Jiren has a legit reason to doubt it given his past, while Goku has legit reason to believe in that power given his own past. At least here, the friendship's power boost made more sense because the battle had already been pretty even and thus a small emotional motivation can make a difference, as it allowed Goku to get the SLIGHT upper hand and defeat Jiren after a hard fought battle. I think it's better narratively, but of course it can't compete with the awesome execution of Gohan's transfornation.

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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by Artorias » Sun Mar 18, 2018 6:13 am

precita wrote:
Doctor. wrote:
The worst part of the episode, however, was the over-the-top melodrama. Characters getting stronger by reminiscing over their past or their loved ones. What is this, Fairy Tail? Dragon Ball had done of good job of avoiding this kind of kitsch shit. It's just so incredibly awful, melodrama like this has no place in Dragon Ball. Jiren gets mad and thinks of his past. Makes a big speech about it. Gets massively stronger. Goku gets mad and thinks of his friends. Makes a big speech about it. Gets massively stronger. You know what those kinds of emotions got you in the original series (minus some very scarce exceptions, and ignoring the fact that melodramatic speeches weren't present in the original series to begin with)? An ass-kicking.
This is the same thing Dragonball has always done, what the Spirit Bomb scenes are about, what characters giving Goku energy is about, and what Goku always does. He'll always save and believe in his friends and fight for them. This is what Dragonball is about.
That really isn't what DB is about though, save for a few specific scenes here and there. Goku never actively used his friends as a direct motivator, in the sense that we the audience never saw it, and the show didn't choose to dwell on it like this. We could ASSUME that Goku was fighting for his friends against Cell, for instance, of course, but they didn't need to have some big melodramatic speech about it.

It's actually one of those things that people take for granted, in that DB spawned the shonen craze, and a lot of those shows that were inspired by DB went on to rely a lot on this "the power of friendship" trope. But if you actually go back and pay attention, DB itself never really placed much weight on this trick. The show never really fell back on this cliche, and those rare times it did, it amounted to jack shit, like when Goku thinks of his family and fires a KKx20 at Freeza.

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