Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

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Bullza
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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by Bullza » Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:38 am

Was there any videos of the episode being played at any stadiums? It'd be interesting to see.

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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by MKCSTEALTH » Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:43 am

I absolutely love this episode. The fighting, the animation, the call backs to old school Dragonball and Z. All fantastic.

But damn if 17 showing up didn't piss me off. I'd have been okay had he survived, but how casually it was done made me so angry. That was one of the most emotional moments of this arc and they honestly just pissed on it.

Still, probably my new favorite episode of the series. Next week, the big finale

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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by KameNinja45 » Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:48 am

8bitdee wrote:
KameNinja45 wrote:
8bitdee wrote:Fans Pre-131: "Super hasn't given Goku any character development at all. He's still the same dickhead he's always been, it's sooooo annoying!"

Fans post-131: "WTF Toei,show some consistency for fuck's sake. Keep Goku the same he's always been!"
Ignoring the last sentence, because people don't want Goku to stay the same, Goku having character development whilst staying consistent is entirely possible.
And this was consistent. Goku is fighting for his friends and family so they don't get erased, just how he's always protected them before and when Jiren attacked them his anger came out that beat Jiren to a pulp just how his anger came out when Krillin that turned him initially into a SSJ.

People are blowing this shit completely out of proportion. It's like the Man of Steel "omerggerd Superman shouldn't kill!" complaining all over again. Except that compared to that scene this doesn't change Goku's character.

People are just complaining that we get about 30 seconds of flashbacks because apparently that's a bad thing. Because DB shouldn't copy from "lesser series" (cough One Piece is magnitudes better storyteller than DB cough). Because DB has "NEVER DONE THIS BEFORE!" and therefore shouldn't try to do anything new and just stick to the same old formula because "I haven't grown up and neither should this cartoon."
I mostly agree. Goku and the series has a whole has definitely done these kinds of things before. That being said, I think it's a little inconsistent because Goku has been extremely inconsistent throughout this entire arc, and even all of Super. I'm fine with Goku getting angry that Jiren attacked his friends, that's completely consistent, but the friendship speech that he made prior to that just felt a little out of character, because we haven't seen him act like that in such a long time. I think it's mostly fine though.

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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by Greator » Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:49 am

I feel like saying this episode had bad writing is just used as an excuse to say anything negative from the episode lol.

The episode was very good in every aspect, the best part being few wtf moments like Jiren blasting the audience, Goku losing UI and 17 being alive.

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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by Android350 » Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:58 am

lancerman wrote:
SHINOBI-03 wrote:Ah, the good ol' "His body can't handle this great power" cliche putting an end to the battle. It was great and splendid animation that's always saved for this occasion.

And yeah, we all knew Freeza is coming back to play a part at the end. But 17? That's a surprise.
17's actually the more interesting fighter to survive now. Goku's done. Freeza's running on close to empty and his Golden form isn't enough to stop Jiren. 17 with his infinite energy might actually pose the greatest problem. Everyone's worn out, but one guy can be a little creative in this and not worry about falling apart.
I agree. So happy he's back.
However... his re-entrance was done so casually that it absolutely nullifies the writers' credibility. Especially since his sacrifice had such an impact on everyone, launching Goku into multiple power boosts.

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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by kemuri07 » Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:03 pm

8bitdee wrote:Fans Pre-130: "Super hasn't given Goku any character development at all. He's still the same dickhead he's always been, it's sooooo annoying!"

Fans post-130: "WTF Toei,show some consistency for fuck's sake. Keep Goku the same he's always been!"
I dont think you understand how character arcs work.

Here's what a good show does: presents a character who thinks and acts a certain way and, thoughtout the show, slowly changes based on the circumstances and the people he/she surrounds themselves with.

Here's what a bad show does: has its central character act a certain way throughout most of the show--and then does something different because the plot demands it.

Take a guess which category Super falls into.

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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by lord turbo » Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:12 pm

JazzMazz wrote:Why is no one treating Goku's obvious change of motivation, which is in stark contrast to 122, as a progression or development of his mentality during this arc? Since its pretty obvious that's what they were going for.
Terrible writing, its the same reason something established in a previous episode is immediately ignored in the following episode. The writing is atrocious and all over the place, very little to no internal consistency within the show what so ever.
"Before one may reach Heaven, they must endure Hell first. Only then will you be able to attain serenity beyond a sea of strife." & "Fear is not a sign of cowardice but the recognition of danger. Those who ignore this basic emotion do so out of vanity and are thus quelled before victory." - Roy Teal Jr.

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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by Hawk9211 » Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:25 pm

Doctor. wrote:
lancerman wrote:
Doctor. wrote:I can't believe how hard some of you are missing the point. It doesn't matter whether Goku has always fought for his friends or not. The point is that it was never verbalized to this extent because Dragon Ball avoids this kind of kitsch storytelling and unorganic drama. These melodramatic, over-the-top "MY NAKAMA" (or "MY PAST" in Jiren's case) speeches that culminate in nonsensical power boosts are something that the series has never done before and you'd pardon someone if you took the script of this episode, changed the names around, and they'd mistake it for an episode of One Piece or Fairy Tail.
You're missing the point though. In other instances it didn't need pointing out because Goku wasn't fighting a character like Jiren who actually is a misguided hero whose whole personality is based around shunning connection because it's failed him in the past and that his own self motivation was everything and all that mattered. Jiren reached a higher level specifically because his trauma wills him to self motivate, Goku pushed himself to a higher level because his friends were in danger and that makes him dig deeper as it has in the past. Because you had two conflicting viewpoints it was pointed out.

You're saying something was treated differently in the past without realizing the situations in the past didn't merit it in the same way as the present where the set up is a character who diametrically opposes that thought.
I get the idea. I'm saying it was executed poorly due to how 1. how over-theatrical it was, 2. how generic and played out a concept it is, and 3. how it disregards all forms of logic and rules. You can present two conflicting viewpoints without battering them down the viewer's head. Majin Vegeta vs Goku is a good example of an interesting character conflict that isn't played out to the point of annoyance and where logic isn't thrown out of the window for the sake of the spectacle. Vegeta's inner conflict is verbalized in a way that was actually quite new to Dragon Ball at the time (and still is) but it was original and didn't feel completely dissonant with the way Vegeta had been portrayed up to that point. As others have pointed out, the theme in this episode completely contradicts Whis' spiel last episode.
Did not notice that,I guess I was too hung up on nakama power up and I will say it again you and me have quite similar thoughts on this arc.
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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by TheRed259 » Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:30 pm

Jiren is trying to kill Krillin and the others and the Zenos do absolutely nothing...

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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by jeffbr92 » Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:31 pm

8bitdee wrote:Because DB shouldn't copy from "lesser series" (cough One Piece is magnitudes better storyteller than DB cough).
Using the same argument you used about profit and audience being more revelant than storywise: Toei charts proves the otherwise.
Bullza wrote:Was there any videos of the episode being played at any stadiums? It'd be interesting to see.
That's only for the final episode, man.
Last edited by jeffbr92 on Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:35 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by ekrolo2 » Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:31 pm

Another thing I want to point out is Goku getting burned out, erm, isn't the MASTERED Ultra Instinct not supposed to do that to him? If it's got the same drawback as the imperfect one except seemingly even worse since Goku's back literally explodes in a torrent of blood, why is the mastered one even a thing? Might as well just have a boosted version of Omen around instead.
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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:32 pm

TheRed259 wrote:Jiren is trying to kill Krillin and the others and the Zenos do absolutely nothing...
Well, no outside help is the rule. Nobody ever said anything about killing the potential outside help :P

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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by lord turbo » Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:42 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:You're living in the 2010s, the decade built on the destruction of artistic integrity and people soaking it up because its "fun" in the most vague, often superficial way possible. All that's left is the "Lord of Rings is getting a sequel trilogy!" announcement and we've officially hit rock bottom. It's a sad but true state of affairs.
Its like Doctor and I's thought process exist on the same wave length. I never thought I say this, but DBS is the anime equivalent to Bay's Transformers.
Simere wrote:*Another problem I have with nakama power is that it often feels patronizing to the nakama characters. Sometimes it makes it feel like their only purpose is to be a nakama battery. And maybe it is, but to have them acknowledge and accept that while smiling and nodding along?
I feel the exact same way that type 3 nakama is the worst, I don't care which series or media does it, it will always be viewed as thrash to me and your point about the cast calling attention their role as nakama batterirs and being content with it and smiling does feel insulting. Doesn't help Vegeta's master race lines are off putting too.
SsjCookie wrote:Goku suddenly gaining the power of friendship and family after being so initially selfish all the time, really doesn't do much for me in the "feels" department. :problem:
By that account why didn't that trope work for Ribrianne or Heck... Vegeta if that were the case?
The message here is that those characters simply didn't care or try hard enough giving the unfortunate implications the only right way is F&F Goku's "I got family..." way.
kemuri07 wrote:Because Super doesn't do it well, like, at all.

On paper, that is an interesring arc for Goku. Goku has never had to concede his pride the way people like Tien, Piccolo, and Vegeta has had to. And they are arguably better people because of it.

Not Goku.

Everything goes his way. Even when the dude dies, he still somehow wins because of course he does. What once made him charismatic has made him arrogant. He just naturally assumes that everything will work out for him.

Now imagine of the arc focused on Goku's negative tendencies; imagine if, when fighting Jiren he's forced to realize he's going to lose. And for the first time, hes scared. He knows there's no coming back from--and he has no one to blame for himself. And he suddenly realizes that he fights not for himself, not because he's bored, but he does for his friends and family. *bam* mother fucker realizes the power of friendship, turns into Ultra instinct, and I just made a better character arc than what a bunch of paid writers did.

Super being Super naturally fucks this up because God forbid they admit their cash cow actually has some damning flaws.
Excellent post, that would have been cliche (but much less than what we got), but acceptable. You brought up a point about Goku that makes him unintentionally unlikable.
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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by Kaiosama » Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:43 pm

sintzu wrote:
Kaiosama wrote:Vegeta has officially been surpassed in importance in the series by Frieza and 17. Who would have thought.
No one, you're the only one who thinks that. :lol:
:lol: Vegeta's butt is sitting in the bleachers while 17 and Frieza are still helping Goku. He has officially been surpassed in importance. Who cares if he beat Toppo? He still was eliminated 4th to last. Good job Toei and Toriyama. We need other characters to shine with Goku instead of just Vegeta all the time.
Last edited by Kaiosama on Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by ekrolo2 » Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:47 pm

lord turbo wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote:You're living in the 2010s, the decade built on the destruction of artistic integrity and people soaking it up because its "fun" in the most vague, often superficial way possible. All that's left is the "Lord of Rings is getting a sequel trilogy!" announcement and we've officially hit rock bottom. It's a sad but true state of affairs.
Its like Doctor and I's thought process exist on the same wave length. I never thought I say this, but DBS is the anime equivalent to Bay's Transformers.
Bays Transformers are typically way too obviously idiotic for me to get mad about them. Honestly, I wish DBS was that stupid, it would make it a lot easier to stomach.
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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by coola » Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:53 pm

"I'm not hero of justice or anything like that, but, if you hurt my friends, i won't forgive you!" 10 out of 10, my only nitpick, is that Zenos didnt react when Jiren purposely attacked audience.
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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by jeffbr92 » Sun Mar 18, 2018 12:57 pm

coola wrote:My only nitpick, is that Zenos didnt react when Jiren purposely attacked audience.
I'm glad we hadn't that, Zen-Oh reactions are annoying and a waste of time.
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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by Torturephile » Sun Mar 18, 2018 1:04 pm

jeffbr92 wrote:
coola wrote:My only nitpick, is that Zenos didnt react when Jiren purposely attacked audience.
I'm glad we hadn't that, Zen-Oh reactions are annoying and a waste of time.
Was about to comment the same thing. I'm glad they cut down the Zeno exposure for this episode. I never found him endearing, even before the second Zeno came along.

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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by Bullza » Sun Mar 18, 2018 1:13 pm

I found some of the videos, they weren't in the stadiums but they were shown on the street and there's hundreds, maybe even a couple thousand people there. They go crazy when they see Frieza and Android 17.

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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by 8bitdee » Sun Mar 18, 2018 1:13 pm

jeffbr92 wrote:
8bitdee wrote:Because DB shouldn't copy from "lesser series" (cough One Piece is magnitudes better storyteller than DB cough).
Using the same argument you used about profit and audience being more revelant than storywise: Toei charts proves the otherwise.
Uh, what? My argument was that more sales =/= better product. Your charts prove that as even though DB has more sales, that doesn't make it the better product. Also, when I was talking about One Piece being a better storyteller, I was referring to the manga. And if you've picked up a single chapter of One Piece and think that DB is better, well then I have nothing else to argue because that's your opinion that you're entitled to. But objectively, OP is just better in terms of story writing and character arcs.

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