Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

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Master Xar
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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by Master Xar » Sun Mar 18, 2018 10:59 pm

Acetona wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:I swear, if I see another generic shonen trope in this generic shonen anime based on a generic shonen series, I will quit illegally watching Dragon Ball Super after next week's last episode.

I promise.

No, really, this time, I DO mean it.
When did Dragon Ball start using friendship speeches? I'm asking because it first started on Super as far as I know. It's stupid to assume DB was like this from the start. That stupid "I'm all tired, but I can stand up infinitely" didn't happen too. Remember Goku vs Piccolo or Goku vs Oozaru Vegeta? Super is just like the likes of Fairy Tail and Saint Seiya. This isn't Dragon Ball anymore.
1.) there wasn’t any drawn out speech from any of the characters in the fight unlike Fairy Tail or Seiya.
2.) both those fights have Goku literally crippled or critically injured, I’ve never understood the idea the stamina can’t come back, us humans can run a full sprint and run out of stamina and take a 30s-1:00m break and come back fine, this is GOKU we’re talking about here...

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Omniboy
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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by Omniboy » Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:07 pm

Kanious wrote:
DBZ had a lot of this. Also there were some BS moments like Father-son kamehameha
How was this a bs moment? Goku was just encouraging Gohan to do his best, and was assisting him in trying to defeat Cell. And if I recall it wasn't just Gohan and Goku that defeated him. The biggest assist came from Vegeta who actually physically assisted him.

#16 speech triggering Gohan (it made no sense as Gohan never developed a bond with #16)
You're right in that they never had a personal relationship, but he did just witness being, get killed. A being that also can't be resurrected and experience an afterlife like the rest of them and Gohan realizing that his death was perhaps his own fault. Besides, Android 16's speech wasn't about friendship. The farthest thing far away from friendship actually. It was about how not everyone can be changed, and some people need to be killed/stopped. Yes there was talk about protecting others but first and foremost it was about stopping people who won't change.

As far as Goku witnessing people being tourtured, I don't recall that. If you are referring to Vegeta, he didn't know him. I guess you can say that this adds to your argument about Android 16, except for the fact that Goku didn't feel responsible for it like Gohan did. Plus Krillin could not be bought back.


EDIT: Plus Goku's speech wasn't about friendship at all. He was just telling Freeza how pissed he was at him and how doomed he was. His power up to super saiyan never came from friendship. His friend had something to with it, but not from encouraging him and talking about that "nakama spirit," as much as it was about seeing Krillin obliterated right in front of his very eyes, and Goku being unable to wish him back.
Last edited by Omniboy on Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by Gohan123 » Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:38 pm

This episode really entertain me and other people . If you guys complain about friendship or this episode why don't you guys contact to Toyotaro , Toshio or Toei company and complain about this episode ?

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Asura
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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by Asura » Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:58 pm

Gohan123 wrote:This episode really entertain me and other people . If you guys complain about friendship or this episode why don't you guys contact to Toyotaro , Toshio or Toei company and complain about this episode ?
That's a bad idea for obvious reasons, not to mention it's an idea that doesn't even make much sense. What would contacting them and complaining do?

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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by prince212 » Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:01 am

Gohan123 wrote:This episode really entertain me and other people . If you guys complain about friendship or this episode why don't you guys contact to Toyotaro , Toshio or Toei company and complain about this episode ?
Better complain to the president of United States or the king of japan , this is serious
Jokes aside I’m amazed about how people looks for trouble after such an amazing chapter .
It was as if a whole lot of people ...were screaming in pain....

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jeffbr92
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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by jeffbr92 » Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:43 am

Asura wrote:What would contacting them and complaining do?
For them to realize they could do much better with a little more effort?
Power levels are not just big numbers:

by Doctor.

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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by Gohan123 » Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:47 am

Asura wrote:
Gohan123 wrote:This episode really entertain me and other people . If you guys complain about friendship or this episode why don't you guys contact to Toyotaro , Toshio or Toei company and complain about this episode ?
That's a bad idea for obvious reasons, not to mention it's an idea that doesn't even make much sense. What would contacting them and complaining do?
Of course most of you guys complain about friendship power up or bla bla in this episode .

You guys can complain to this site

http://corp.toei-anim.co.jp/en/contact

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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by Freeza9000 » Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:52 am

jeffbr92 wrote:
Asura wrote:What would contacting them and complaining do?
For them to realize they could do much better with a little more effort?
Without sounding like a complete asswipe? I doubt it.

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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by dougo13 » Mon Mar 19, 2018 1:34 am

One thing that has been bothering me about this show is the universes that got exempted because their inhabitants had power levels significantly higher than the ones that were in the Tourny. So, seeing how ridiculously high the power levels got to be in this show, how much higher can they go? Can this be translated into a fighting game? And with Xeno being able to wipe out entire universes with a snap of his fingers it's just out of step. It makes everything up to this point seem so futile. But maybe that's all the writers have to work with...

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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by Asura » Mon Mar 19, 2018 1:35 am

Gohan123 wrote:
Asura wrote:
Gohan123 wrote:This episode really entertain me and other people . If you guys complain about friendship or this episode why don't you guys contact to Toyotaro , Toshio or Toei company and complain about this episode ?
That's a bad idea for obvious reasons, not to mention it's an idea that doesn't even make much sense. What would contacting them and complaining do?
Of course most of you guys complain about friendship power up or bla bla in this episode .

You guys can complain to this site

http://corp.toei-anim.co.jp/en/contact
Are you trying to say that people shouldn't be complaining here if they found something wrong with the episode?
dougo13 wrote:One thing that has been bothering me about this show is the universes that got exempted because their inhabitants had power levels significantly higher than the ones that were in the Tourny. So, seeing how ridiculously high the power levels got to be in this show, how much higher can they go? Can this be translated into a fighting game? And with Xeno being able to wipe out entire universes with a snap of his fingers it's just out of step. It makes everything up to this point seem so futile. But maybe that's all the writers have to work with...
The other universes weren't exempted because they had insanely powerful guys, it was because their mortal level was higher. Mortal level doesn't strictly have to do with having powerful people in your universe. That being said if we ever do see them in the future, yeah, I don't know how they'll go any higher than this. Even if Goku can't use Ultra Instinct again, Jiren is so ridiculously strong that finding a guy to top him that isn't a GoD/Angel would be insane.

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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by OverHeaven » Mon Mar 19, 2018 1:48 am

jeffbr92 wrote:
OverHeaven wrote:It's a fact, mate. One Piece is better than DB = opinion, One Piece is more enjoyable than DB = opinion, but One Piece being vastly superior to DB storywise is a FACT.
It's not. That's just your inner fanboy talking through your shell. I read and watched a dozen of episodes of One Piece and I was not invested at all. It's shallow and has more annoying "nakama" tropes than Dragon Ball ever had. The only fact we have is that Dragon Ball is way bigger than One Piece will ever will be either in Japan or in overseas and that's something you can't deny. Being better at storytelling or not still subjective.



I already took the time to express how I hate One Piece post-time skip and don't even watch it right now to avoid these kinds of words, whatever lol
I like Dragon Ball more than One Piece, simply because I enjoy it more. That has nothing to do with storytelling.
So I can say that Spongebob has better storytelling than Legend of The Galactic Heroes and that's just a subjective matter? Please let's be real.
And again I DON'T LIKE ONE PIECE, but there are many elements that decide whether a storytelling is good or not.
Nakama power has nothing to do with the STORYtelling, as well as who is bigger and I can provide countless examples, but nah.
jeffbr92 wrote:
8bitdee wrote:No, it's not all subjective. You can't listen to an MP3 and a FLAC and say, "well subjectively one sounds better than the other and there's no argument against that." No, there are technical factors about the FLAC version that makes it superior to an MP3. When it comes to a comic book series, it's composed of several factors; setting, story, character development, pacing, artwork, composition, dialogue, etc etc, and quality of all these factors can be measured objectively.
I'm not saying OP surpasses DB in those and all other factors. I just mean technically speaking, just how a FLAC sounds better than an MP3, OP is better in telling a story, and does a better job at progressing its cast and developing them.
You're kidding right? We're talking about two manga series and now you're trying to make an analogy with audio formats? That's just silly man, I didn't though anyone would go so far to prove a point. Like I said to OverHeaven saying One Piece is better storywise than Dragon Ball is subjective, there's no fact in something people enjoy more than others.
Again, enjoyment has nothing to do with the quality of the story. Some might hate shows that have complex story because they can't understand, some might love something because it has a very simple story and leaning towards more action a.k.a Dragon Ball.

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Saturnine
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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by Saturnine » Mon Mar 19, 2018 2:39 am

Agreed about the enjoyment factor being separate from the quality of the story. It's just like with music - you can realize that a song is crappy, or at least lacking in many aspects. You can also realize it could be better in many ways. But you can still enjoy it, even knowing all those things. DB is an enjoyable franchise, even though the characters may not be as deep as in some other shows and the plot not as contrived.

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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by Kogu 87 » Mon Mar 19, 2018 2:49 am

Just got done watching the episode, what an incredible rush.
Was truly on the edge of my seat the whole time.

Perhaps the single best fight in the franchise ?
"Oh dear...."

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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by JazzMazz » Mon Mar 19, 2018 3:12 am

jeffbr92 wrote:
Asura wrote:What would contacting them and complaining do?
For them to realize they could do much better with a little more effort?
I feel like that's an incredibly dis-ingenuous thing to say.

"Good job guys, you worked yourselves half to death, but please try harder next time."

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Freeza9000
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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by Freeza9000 » Mon Mar 19, 2018 3:14 am


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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by Gig » Mon Mar 19, 2018 4:53 am

My thoughts:
- Very nice looking episode!
- Jiren trying to kill Goku's friends was a bit weird, also considering there were GoDs and Angels there. But I can can understand that when frustrated, people can do stupid things.
- I didn't notice that Goku did a series of small "slide hamehameha" from this hands and foots (after being enraged) through Jiren's shots. Then someone pointed it out here on the forum and I watched the scene at half speed. Sometimes excessively fast animation makes you miss things!
- UI seemed less effective in this episode, so incredible raw power can beat it. Okay, I guess... otherwise we would have had an unbeatable technique...
- Only one episode left and the match isn't over yet. Wondering how much "rushed" will the final episode feel, with the risk of it being even worse than FT saga ending. Fearing it may be ending with a cliffhanger, altough the tiltes seem to suggest a GT-like ending...
- I heard the story will go on with the next movies... wondering if after the movies we will get another series starting with movie->series adaptions, which were the most boring part of Super...

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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by Hawk9211 » Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:02 am

Gaffer Tape wrote:I never post over in the Super section, but, geez, this episode was just absolutely terrible. If there's one thing that amazes me about this series is how, every time I think it's hit rock bottom, it always, always, ALWAYS finds a new way to disappoint. The only thing this episode had going for it was good animation, but that just means it looks pretty while having no substance. For the first two-thirds of the episode, I was just bored, but that's nothing new for me. This tournament has just gone on for so long that it's impossible for me to stay invested in it. Well, I should add that there's very little emotion in this arc to get me invested in the first place. But even if it did, it has long overstayed its welcome to the point that I can barely remember anything that happens anymore. It all just runs together. Case in point: when the recap started up this time, I honestly had to check to make sure I didn't skip an episode because none of that was ringing a bell.

But then, lo and behold, the episode finally managed to get my attention. I did somewhat enjoy the flashbacks and speeches. Although they were slightly cringy in their shonen stereotype kind of way, at least they seemed like they were finally trying to make this about something. And I was very curious to see where it went. And then Jiren, the most boring antagonist in Dragon Ball's history... cracked. And he attacked the stands. And for the first time in months, this show had my full, undivided attention. What was going to happen now? Had Jiren gone maverick? After all, that was coming dangerously close to hitting his own gods. What were they going to do about this? Well, turns out, and I really shouldn't have been surprised, the answer is nothing. As always, this show continues to take an interesting idea and do absolutely nothing creative with it.

And yet I could still overlook it to a degree because at least it motivated Goku, so it wasn't a total waste. So I was all prepared to witness the endgame, and concede that at least it ended on a relatively high note. Granted, for a second it looked like Goku was going to do that stupid ki-sharing thing again since this arc can't do anything without aping the Freeza Arc. But it didn't. Instead, in a very cool-looking segment, Goku's back exploded, and he went down. I was on the edge of my seat. What could have happened? For a moment, it occurred to me that maybe Freeza finally betrayed the team. To what end, who knows, but I couldn't wait to find out. And then, in the clunkiest bit of exposition in a tournament filled to the brim with clunky exposition, Whis reveals that Goku's Ultra Instinct just crapped out. What?

Do these people just not know how to end a story? Because it was the same problem with the Trunks Arc too. They had what could have been a satisfying ending and couldn't follow through with it because throwing in a lame twist was more important. And they didn't manage to learn their lesson with that! They had to do it again! But I still held out a glimmer of hope that if Goku did get taken out, maybe, just maybe, they'd manage to come up with an unpredictable ending. Maybe. But, no, they couldn't even do that. They just had to keep Goku safe. Oh, and then #17 just casually wandered back in going, "Hey, guys. I was just hiding under a rock for no reason. Oh? You thought I was dead? What in that scene made you think I was dead? I don't see how anybody would have even assumed that in the first place. Honestly, I can't imagine how you could have had any idea what was going on at all. Oh? The Grand Priest told you I was dead, and since that was literally all you had to go on, you just assumed he knew what he was talking about? No, he's an idiot. I'm alive. I just decided to make you sweat it out for the past month thinking I was dead for... reasons."

And now what? The next episode wraps everything up, right? So now what? A whole episode to deal with the aftermath would have been the smart thing to do. Now we have to have the final final battle and deal with the erasure and the winning and the wishing and the ending all in less than half an hour? I don't see how that could possibly be anything but rushed and disappointing. And maybe I'll be wrong. And if so, I'll gladly admit it. But I'm sick of giving this garbage the benefit of the doubt. Every single time I try to give it credit, I end up, at best, furious, and, more likely, just looking at my watch hoping this snooze-fest ends soon. This is going to be manga Freeza Arc ending all over again. They'll just hold on an image of the dragon and have the narrator rush through exposition of what everybody did.

I tried. I really tried. I've tried to give this show credit for the small successes it has had. I came into this arc hyped as all get out. I want to like this. But it's finally broken me. This show is a disaster. An absolute disaster. I hope it ends and never comes back again.
Have you read the manga?It's available for free on viz and I have seen that a lot of people like it over the anime.
Why power levels are important?
The genre and roots of dragon ball

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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by sangofe » Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:51 am

Gohan123 wrote:
Asura wrote:
Gohan123 wrote:This episode really entertain me and other people . If you guys complain about friendship or this episode why don't you guys contact to Toyotaro , Toshio or Toei company and complain about this episode ?
That's a bad idea for obvious reasons, not to mention it's an idea that doesn't even make much sense. What would contacting them and complaining do?
Of course most of you guys complain about friendship power up or bla bla in this episode .

You guys can complain to this site

http://corp.toei-anim.co.jp/en/contact
What are you guys complaining about? Goku's friends always have been very important to him , especially since the daimaoh arc and out.

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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by foxfang4 » Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:13 am

sangofe wrote:
Gohan123 wrote:
Asura wrote: That's a bad idea for obvious reasons, not to mention it's an idea that doesn't even make much sense. What would contacting them and complaining do?
Of course most of you guys complain about friendship power up or bla bla in this episode .

You guys can complain to this site

http://corp.toei-anim.co.jp/en/contact
What are you guys complaining about? Goku's friends always have been very important to him , especially since the daimaoh arc and out.
They complain because they interpreted the act as if that was the main reason why he defeated Jiren. Instead of just being his explanation for not giving up easily. Which is all it was. And my Japanese friend Yuzo told me that the subs were pretty off, especially during the Piccolo/Roshi/Krillin speech.

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Re: Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

Post by JazzMazz » Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:21 am

foxfang4 wrote:
sangofe wrote:
Gohan123 wrote:
Of course most of you guys complain about friendship power up or bla bla in this episode .

You guys can complain to this site

http://corp.toei-anim.co.jp/en/contact
What are you guys complaining about? Goku's friends always have been very important to him , especially since the daimaoh arc and out.
They complain because they interpreted the act as if that was the main reason why he defeated Jiren. Instead of just being his explanation for not giving up easily. Which is all it was. And my Japanese friend Yuzo told me that the subs were pretty off, especially during the Piccolo/Roshi/Krillin speech.
How so?
What did you friend say was the meaning of their speeches?

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