Super Episode 130 (18 March 2018)

[jeffbr92]

Man, I'm can not compute what was this episode yet... Even though the whole battle was epic animated... Probably the best I ever seen in the franchise...

Why the need of having not just Freeza, but 17 (still god damn alive) to fight a fully powered Jiren while Goku is "almost dead" but will still fight regardless of being vastly powerless?

This is just ridiculous to the point they think the audience will eat every shit they drop it.

Well people wanted Jiren to have a bit more character. Triggered PTSD, hatred for trust and friendship, saying he will destroy what Goku believes in, actively trying to murder all of Team 7 despite being a hero yet not happy about winning becuase Goku's burned out were some very nice touch's to his character I think.

Yeah people can't complain about Jiren not having a character anymore.

Actually we can, he just became a generic asshole villain who could not stand losing, reminds me of Cell.

[fadeddreams5]

I was actually hoping for Frieza to have been the one to incapacitate Goku at the end, if only to firmly cement his place as a villain. I really, really, REALLY don't like the direction they're heading with that character.

[WittyUsername]

On the other hand, I’m not a big fan of them going through the whole “power of friendship” trope. That’s way too cliche for a shonen series.

It's not too cliche for a shounen series when 99% of shounen is all about "teaching" that lesson. That's like complaining that a horror film has a scene that takes place in the dark.

But that hasn’t really been what Dragon Ball has generally been about. The fact that Goku has a reputation for being a selfish jerk is probably a testament to the fact that DB isn’t really a series about friendship.

[Doctor.]

First and foremost, bravo to the animation crew for an outstanding spectacle. It may not be the best choreographed Dragon Ball fight, but surely it is the most impressive-looking one. Absolutely spectacular.

Two very minor gripes before I get into the meat of things: 1. I could have been more hyped over Ultimate Battle if it hadn't played like 10 times before this point; 2. Nozawa's scream/acting during Shida's big scene could have been a lot better. Now, as to the big negatives.

I'm sorry to burst everyone's bubble here, but the writing was atrocious. I'm not exactly sure how anyone can be happy about the way these characters are being portrayed. Firstly, Jiren was reduced to nothing more than a caricature of what a Dragon Ball antagonist should be like; he's up against Goku so let's villanize him at the cost of everything that made Jiren be. He lost anything original that he had before with that stunt of attacking Goku's friends. Secondly, #17 being alive, unbeknownst to ALL the angels and Gods (might as well tell me Tenshinhan and Hit still have clones in the arena), makes his already weightless sacrifice completely pointless. Thirdly, Goku is being hit and damaged in Ultra Instinct... how, exactly? Theoretically, just because your body reacts on its own doesn't mean it has time to react, I get that. That's a solid enough excuse. Shame the series didn't bother to provide it. UI was always portrayed as this unstoppable force before this point, and its only downsides were the time limit and the need to focus to attack (which are now obsolete), but here it is, getting hit... just because.

The worst part of the episode, however, was the over-the-top melodrama. Characters getting stronger by reminiscing over their past or their loved ones. What is this, Fairy Tail? Dragon Ball had done of good job of avoiding this kind of kitsch shit. It's just so incredibly awful, melodrama like this has no place in Dragon Ball. Jiren gets mad and thinks of his past. Makes a big speech about it. Gets massively stronger. Goku gets mad and thinks of his friends. Makes a big speech about it. Gets massively stronger. You know what those kinds of emotions got you in the original series (minus some very scarce exceptions, and ignoring the fact that melodramatic speeches weren't present in the original series to begin with)? An ass-kicking.

Loved the visuals during the scene where Goku powers down from UI, but I'm kinda torn on the idea. Seems very convenient to pop out now after the only downside to UI being Omen tiring him out quickly (which should now be an irrelevant downside considering UI was 'mastered'). I want to think it's building on the 'SSBKK causes muscle strain' concept, but I'm sure it isn't considering Toei already forgot that was a thing.

All in all, great spectacle with absolutely godawful writing. I'm glad Toei stepped up to give DB the visuals it deserves, but I'm still waiting for the writing it deserves. A shame we can't have both.

[Torturephile]

And this breaks the streak of average to bad episodes. This episode renders for me 129 almost entirely useless just like how 114 did to 113 and how 116 did to 115.

-It is now evident where the budget and talent for episode 129's animation went to. I am fond of the fluidity of this episode's animation while retaining a good level of art, even for the smallest movements, and it managed to remind me of some old Disney films at certain points. What else can be expected from our flouidity master, Naoki Tate.
-I have an adoration towards hellish settings in fiction, so seeing the tournament arena get turned into a fiery wasteland got me excited. I wish it prolonged more than it did.
-Showing colored silhouettes of Goku and Jiren fighting during the mandatory flashback/commentary scene was clever, just so that we can still see what's going on in the fight.
-Roshi's glasses confirm our characters talk faster than they can fight.
-I still have a preference towards the black-haired ultra instinct form over the silver-haired one. The silver haired one reminds me of Silver the Hedgehog.
-The more personality Jiren shows, the more Goku gets silent. I assume that's what that Toei aimed at once their plan to make Jiren talkative like how Toppo is was shut down. Today's episode, however, reversed Jiren's dynamic with Vegeta from episode 128 in that now Jiren is the one chanting "I'm not giving up!" repeatedly while Goku is beating him up.
-The Kachi Katchin material has a conveniently inconsistent level of resistance. We've seen weaker characters break segments of the arena, yet the two strongest characters in the tournament can't break opponents through fragments of the arena to ring them out.
-I wanted 17 to stay dead even if he was my favorite character in the tournament.
-The updated eyecatcher featuring the silver-haired ultra instinct looks bad.

I had to remove the spaces between my notes as it would have made my post take up too much space on the screen. Thank me later.

[Dave2770]

Why was Jiren trying to kill gokus friends? Whis ans beerus were there.

Also I kinda feel bad for jiren.

[Dave2770]

Why was Mastered Ultra Instinct here weaker looking than Omen UI?

Last episode he was dominating and his movements were crazy now Jiren is blocking his punches?

It doesn't make sense. MUI should mean all his punches hit and any attacks towards him should miss. That's my main problem here MUI was pointless

[ToshioWrites]

Why was Jiren trying to kill gokus friends? Whis ans beerus were there.

Also I kinda feel bad for jiren.

I think he was trying to prove a point to goku that all that he holds dear - friendship and family can be taken away from him so easily. Kind of like it was from him

[precita]

. Firstly, Jiren was reduced to nothing more than a caricature of what a Dragon Ball antagonist should be like; he's up against Goku so let's villanize him at the cost of everything that made Jiren be. He lost anything original that he had before with that stunt of attacking Goku's friends.

Jiren is an asshole who only cares about strength, and this ep showed his true colors. Not sure what you expected, Jiren was always a jackass. Glad to see it confirmed.

Secondly, #17 being alive, unbeknownst to ALL the angels and Gods, makes his already weightless sacrifice completely pointless.

Zeno never marked 17 off as far as I remember. Likewise being an Android they shouldn't be able to sense his energy. I also don't think it makes his sacrifice pointless, it just highlights what 17 was willing to do and the surprise of seeing him still around. Looking back at it now people said his sacrifice didn't have enough impact, now I can see why because he was planned to return.

Thirdly, Goku is being hit and damaged in Ultra Instinct... how, exactly? Theoretically, just because your body reacts on its own doesn't mean it has time to react, I get that. That's a solid enough excuse. Shame the series didn't bother to provide it. UI was always portrayed as this unstoppable force before this point, and its only downsides were the time limit and the need to focus to attack (which are now obsolete), but here it is, getting hit... just because.

Jiren is still unbelieveably powerful and Goku just mastered it with his body not being used to it. It was never supposed to make you completely un=hittable.

The worst part of the episode, however, was the over-the-top melodrama. Characters getting stronger by reminiscing over their past or their loved ones. What is this, Fairy Tail? Dragon Ball had done of good job of avoiding this kind of kitsch shit. It's just so incredibly awful, melodrama like this has no place in Dragon Ball. Jiren gets mad and thinks of his past. Makes a big speech about it. Gets massively stronger. Goku gets mad and thinks of his friends. Makes a big speech about it. Gets massively stronger. You know what those kinds of emotions got you in the original series (minus some very scarce exceptions, and ignoring the fact that melodramatic speeches weren't present in the original series to begin with)? An ass-kicking.

This is the same thing Dragonball has always done, what the Spirit Bomb scenes are about, what characters giving Goku energy is about, and what Goku always does. He'll always save and believe in his friends and fight for them. This is what Dragonball is about.

[obiwan23s]

I'm a little bummed that 17's death is now a fakeout death. That was a cool moment and it could be easily fixed with the dragon balls. We were all expecting Freeza so it wasn't a surprise to see him there at the end too. The part when Krillin explains how they were all friends because of Goku got me in the feels man. Great episode.

[BlueBasilisk]

Why was Jiren trying to kill gokus friends? Whis ans beerus were there.

Also I kinda feel bad for jiren.

I think he was trying to prove a point to goku that all that he holds dear - friendship and family can be taken away from him so easily. Kind of like it was from him

It was that. His entire ideology of "Absolute might is absolute justice" was breaking down.

The worst part of the episode, however, was the over-the-top melodrama. Characters getting stronger by reminiscing over their past or their loved ones. What is this, Fairy Tail? Dragon Ball had done of good job of avoiding this kind of kitsch shit. It's just so incredibly awful, melodrama like this has no place in Dragon Ball. Jiren gets mad and thinks of his past. Makes a big speech about it. Gets massively stronger. Goku gets mad and thinks of his friends. Makes a big speech about it. Gets massively stronger. You know what those kinds of emotions got you in the original series (minus some very scarce exceptions, and ignoring the fact that melodramatic speeches weren't present in the original series to begin with)?

Super Saiyan.

[Torturephile]

Why was Mastered Ultra Instinct here weaker looking than Omen UI?

Last episode he was dominating and his movements were crazy now Jiren is blocking his punches?

It doesn't make sense. MUI should mean all his punches hit and any attacks towards him should miss. That's my main problem here MUI was pointless

They were even in the previous episode in a lower power state. In this episode, they were taking turns dominating each other while both were powered up.

[Extreme_kai]

Wow, I'm shocked 17 is alive that's so Hit hiding in a pocket dimension stuff. I won't judge until I actually see the episode, Crunchyroll being Crunchyroll right now. What a twist though, although it throws a wrench in my theory damn, I got to see this for myself!

[TheShadowEmperor8055]

Very beautifully animated episode. One of the best, if not the best. Less peanut gallery and less reused animation from the last episode's disappointing showing is a plus.

Though Super is still... "meh" from a narrative standpoint. You simply need sheer strength and speed to temporarily overcome an ability that's supposed to "avoid any danger no matter how severe". Seriously, what happened to that concept regarding UI? Everytime Goku got hit in UI I was like "ughhh...." (but it would have been too one-sided if Goku dodged everything, which I get). They did, however, make it clear Goku would have won if his body was able to hold up, which I guess makes sense, given he's been going at it the whole time. Jiren showing more personality than ever, which is nice, but Jeezus, he was about to blow away his own teammates just to prove a point to Goku. 17 being back is nice. Maybe his fans will come back too, since they fell off the face of the Earth. But I don't think they should have tried to make it seem as if he was dead if he wasn't the whole time.

While the storytelling sucks, can't take away how impressive the episode was visually, however. Quite good indeed.

[Lord Beerus]

The worst part of the episode, however, was the over-the-top melodrama. Characters getting stronger by reminiscing over their past or their loved ones. What is this, Fairy Tail? Dragon Ball had done of good job of avoiding this kind of kitsch shit. It's just so incredibly awful, melodrama like this has no place in Dragon Ball. Jiren gets mad and thinks of his past. Makes a big speech about it. Gets massively stronger. Goku gets mad and thinks of his friends. Makes a big speech about it. Gets massively stronger. You know what those kinds of emotions got you in the original series (minus some very scarce exceptions, and ignoring the fact that melodramatic speeches weren't present in the original series to begin with)?

Super Saiyan.

And Super Saiyan 2.

[TheShadowEmperor8055]

First and foremost, bravo to the animation crew for an outstanding spectacle. It may not be the best choreographed Dragon Ball fight, but surely it is the most impressive-looking one. Absolutely spectacular.

Two very minor gripes before I get into the meat of things: 1. I could have been more hyped over Ultimate Battle if it hadn't played like 10 times before this point; 2. Nozawa's scream/acting during Shida's big scene could have been a lot better. Now, as to the big negatives.

I'm sorry to burst everyone's bubble here, but the writing was atrocious. I'm not exactly sure how anyone can be happy about the way these characters are being portrayed. Firstly, Jiren was reduced to nothing more than a caricature of what a Dragon Ball antagonist should be like; he's up against Goku so let's villanize him at the cost of everything that made Jiren be. He lost anything original that he had before with that stunt of attacking Goku's friends. Secondly, #17 being alive, unbeknownst to ALL the angels and Gods (might as well tell me Tenshinhan and Hit still have clones in the arena), makes his already weightless sacrifice completely pointless. Thirdly, Goku is being hit and damaged in Ultra Instinct... how, exactly? Theoretically, just because your body reacts on its own doesn't mean it has time to react, I get that. That's a solid enough excuse. Shame the series didn't bother to provide it. UI was always portrayed as this unstoppable force before this point, and its only downsides were the time limit and the need to focus to attack (which are now obsolete), but here it is, getting hit... just because.

The worst part of the episode, however, was the over-the-top melodrama. Characters getting stronger by reminiscing over their past or their loved ones. What is this, Fairy Tail? Dragon Ball had done of good job of avoiding this kind of kitsch shit. It's just so incredibly awful, melodrama like this has no place in Dragon Ball. Jiren gets mad and thinks of his past. Makes a big speech about it. Gets massively stronger. Goku gets mad and thinks of his friends. Makes a big speech about it. Gets massively stronger. You know what those kinds of emotions got you in the original series (minus some very scarce exceptions, and ignoring the fact that melodramatic speeches weren't present in the original series to begin with)? An ass-kicking.

Loved the visuals during the scene where Goku powers down from UI, but I'm kinda torn on the idea. Seems very convenient to pop out now after the only downside to UI being Omen tiring him out quickly (which should now be an irrelevant downside considering UI was 'mastered'). I want to think it's building on the 'SSBKK causes muscle strain' concept, but I'm sure it isn't considering Toei already forgot that was a thing.

All in all, great spectacle with absolutely godawful writing. I'm glad Toei stepped up to give DB the visuals it deserves, but I'm still waiting for the writing it deserves. A shame we can't have both.

Wow, didn't see your post, makes mine look redundant, but I'm glad there's someone who agrees with me here. Great visuals, but poor writing.

[Doctor.]

Jiren is an asshole who only cares about strength, and this ep showed his true colors. Not sure what you expected, Jiren was always a jackass. Glad to see it confirmed.

Yes, and that is generic and makes the character seem like a caricature of a DB villain. That was my point.

Zeno never marked 17 off as far as I remember. Likewise being an Android they shouldn't be able to sense his energy. I also don't think it makes his sacrifice pointless, it just highlights what 17 was willing to do and the surprise of seeing him still around. Looking back at it now people said his sacrifice didn't have enough impact, now I can see why because he was planned to return.

That's a poor excuse. The Grand Priest and the Angels have shown a greater ability to assess the situation than everyone else; they should have known #17 was still alive just like Whis and the Grand Priest pointed out multiple times during the tournament that someone was alive when someone thought a character was dead or knocked out. It's pointless because it's a poor bait-and-switch. It tries to get you emotionally invested in a character that you think will die only to show that he's OK after all.

Jiren is still unbelieveably powerful and Goku just mastered it with his body not being used to it. It was never supposed to make you completely un=hittable.

Again, nice excuses. A shame the show doesn't provide them to you.

This is the same thing Dragonball has always done, what the Spirit Bomb scenes are about, what characters giving Goku energy is about, and what Goku always does. He'll always save and believe in his friends and fight for them. This is what Dragonball is about.

Not exactly sure which show you've been watching, but Dragon Ball has never been this melodramatic and was always subtle in its execution of its emotional moments. You very rarely have characters blatantly screaming out what they're about, what they're fighting for and making big speeches to power-up because of their resolve. That's not Dragon Ball. That's Naruto, Bleach, Fairy Tail, garbage.

[precita]

The writing was probably the pinnacle of Super. Goku's characterisation was also excellent, this is exactly how Goku is. He cares for his friends and he fights for them. And Jiren of course descends into the jackass only caring for strength that he is.

[lord godly da don]

why? why the fuck are they force feeding us #17? friendship really? holy fuck why? it was soooo good before that stupid shit

(takes a deep breath)
besides that awesome 10/10 episode but in all honesty the #17 wanking has ruined this arc for me

[Super Saiyan Swagger]

I liked the writing in the episode. Goku and Jiren are both obsessed with becoming stronger, but they're polar opposites. Jiren going so far as to trying to murder Goku's friends was crazy. Was not expecting that. Not to mention the presentation was fantastic. Roshi and Krillin's speeches accompanied by those incredible visuals were really touching.

None of this by any means is deep at all. We have seen it done in other shows. I don't see how it's "atrocious" though. Goku's always gotten stronger thanks to the people he has around him, it's just that this episode was more explicit about it to make a point against Jiren's character.