Super Episode 131 (25 March 2018)

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Raphael_Z
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Re: Super Episode 131 (25 March 2018)

Post by Raphael_Z » Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:12 am

Okara wrote:Good:
Ending with Goku and Vegeta as actual rivals.
Goku not having immediate access to Ultra Instinct.

Bad: Everything else.

It rendered the whole premise of the arc pointless. Why not just do a universal tournament without the stupid, meaningless “erasure” threat? The characters took their sweet ass time having fun for 95% of the arc anyway, so what was the point? It’s just more of Super’s artificial drama.

I’ve always had problems with some of Toriyama’s ultimately-meaningless plot developments, such as Krillin’s second death (reviving Krillin made it meaningless). But this just takes “pointless and fake” to a whole new level. The characters didn’t even have to come up with a creative way to get Zeno or GP to undo the erasures. It’s just the typical “get out of jail free” card with the Dragon Balls because “Oh, Zeno was just testing you guys the whole time trolololol,” which his reasoning for conducting the test doesn’t even make sense. It was random chance that 17 ended up surviving to the end and making a selfless wish. What does that prove about mortals in general? That there are good among the bad? That’s called common sense.

And what the hell is going on with Frieza? Why are they letting him live? The deal was that he’d be revived, not that they’d let him go commit more genocide.
The get out of jail free card has been in Dragon Ball ever since Day 1.

Oh no!!! The Indian boy's dad died? No prob. Dragon Balls.

Oh no!!! Chiaotzu, Krillin and Roshi died? No prob. Dragon Balls.

Oh no!!! Goku died? No prob. Dragon Balls.

The ONLY time when the stakes were high was during the Saiyan arc since Piccolo died so death became permanent (even for just a brief time) but then Namek arc happened.

Then, in Namek the stakes were kind of high again since Goku and Krilin only had one shot at life again (due to the resurrection only once rule) but then Porunga appeared and said "your friend died twice? No prob. Dragon Balls".

Ever since, the stakes have gotten lower and lower and lower. The whole Cell arc was a joke since at any point they could have used the Dragon Balls to solve absolutely everything. Then Kid Buu was only killed BECAUSE of the Dragon Balls (wishing back the Earth, restoring Goku's energies and if Vegeta had asked for a resurrected Ultimate Gohan to be transported to the Kaioshin Planet, everything would have been solved way easier way sooner).

Complaining about the lack of high stakes in Dragon Ball is kind of laughable.

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Re: Super Episode 131 (25 March 2018)

Post by Michsi » Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:19 am

lord turbo wrote:
Michsi wrote:By far the greatest annoyance is how they actually wrote 18 genuienly asking 17 if he is alright with choosing to save the universes instead of having his cruise ship . What's with her characterization in this arc, it's been all over the place and mostly not good.
To be fair, 18 was always a shallow character so her line here wasn't out of place despite being bizarre since she's been characterised as a materialistic person in general.
This goes beyond being materialistic. I mean, earlier in the arc we've even had 17 comment on how kind she had gotten because he saw her get perturbed over the annihilation of U9. Now this?
So we first see her get upset that an entire universe is wiped out, then she asks if 17 wouldn't have rather had his boat; she gets saved by her husband and is all sweet, then the next episode she lambastes him for losing to one of the TOP strongest fighters; 17 comes in and saves her against Katopesla and she acts all affronted one episode, but then said nothing all the other times he and the others save her. If there is one character that shows how out-of-sync the episode writers were, it's her.
Asura wrote:
Michsi wrote:By far the greatest annoyance is how they actually wrote 18 genuienly asking 17 if he is alright with choosing to save the universes instead of having his cruise ship . What's with her characterization in this arc, it's been all over the place and mostly not good.
She's honestly written like a complete sociopath asshole. Won't participate in the tournament that decides the fate of her universe unless she gets paid, basically calls her husband pathetic after he gets knocked out (even though he saved her ass), and now she prioritizes a cruise ship over restoring billions of lives. Very strange.
Very strange, indeed. Compared to how well her brother got treated, this looks bad.

Then again, 17 got almost a complete make-over so it wasn't hard to build a character that didn\t have much to contradict.

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Re: Super Episode 131 (25 March 2018)

Post by julianix » Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:26 am

The other erased universes are probably back too.. not just the ones from the tournament.

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Re: Super Episode 131 (25 March 2018)

Post by SupremeKai25 » Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:28 am

The Future timeline could possibly have been restored as well. It was erased by the Future Omni-king, after all. Which means there is the small possibility of Zamasu's return.
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Re: Super Episode 131 (25 March 2018)

Post by chickensguys » Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:28 am

Just as an aside. I wonder how many universes have been created because of the wish? This could possibly be a point of contention when the show returns.

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Re: Super Episode 131 (25 March 2018)

Post by nato25 » Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:28 am

lord turbo wrote:
Michsi wrote:By far the greatest annoyance is how they actually wrote 18 genuienly asking 17 if he is alright with choosing to save the universes instead of having his cruise ship . What's with her characterization in this arc, it's been all over the place and mostly not good.
To be fair, 18 was always a shallow character so her line here wasn't out of place despite being bizarre since she's been characterised as a materialistic person in general.
I actually don't mind this. 18 has proven to be selfish and in a weird way that extends to her friends getting what they want as well. She has no attachment to the other universes so she'd want to see her brother get the prize over that.

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Re: Super Episode 131 (25 March 2018)

Post by Vegeta_Sama » Sun Mar 25, 2018 3:48 am

I wonder, why didn't Vegeta go Super Saiyan Evolution at the end against Goku? He said he wanted a Power greater than his. Since Goku can't access Ultra Instinct anymore, SSB E would have given him a nice edge
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Re: Super Episode 131 (25 March 2018)

Post by JazzMazz » Sun Mar 25, 2018 4:23 am

Vegeta_Sama wrote:I wonder, why didn't Vegeta go Super Saiyan Evolution at the end against Goku? He said he wanted a Power greater than his. Since Goku can't access Ultra Instinct anymore, SSB E would have given him a nice edge
They obviously weren't going all out. Neither Goku nor Vegeta were going all out.

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Re: Super Episode 131 (25 March 2018)

Post by Greator » Sun Mar 25, 2018 4:28 am

I smiled from the beginning to the end. Simply loved everything in the episode, both action and heartwarming scenes. Oh and especially Freeza, his fighting, resurrection and final speech with his force were handled perfectly (although I'd wanted to see his 1st form).

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Re: Super Episode 131 (25 March 2018)

Post by Shaqazooloo » Sun Mar 25, 2018 4:33 am

Alright, that was better than I expected.

I was really worried it would be rushed and it kind of still was, but it think it was really well done. The fight was good, the story was good and I love Frieza and 17. I'm happy Frieza is still a bad guy and is gonna be up to his old tricks and maybe we'll see 17 more. I love the push they gave him this arc (I wish he had shared some of it with Krillin...) and hope he becomes an actual character we see so theirs someone other than the Saiyans that can keep up.

I guess Ultra Instinct was a movie power-up then? Its never gonna be used again I suppose... same might be true for Vegeta's power-up as well...

The fist bump between the Zeno's and Goku, I was half expecting Goku to implode from that or for Zeno's arms to shatter for some reason...

All in all, I think it was a good episode. I enjoyed it, for me its the best episode of this arc.
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Re: Super Episode 131 (25 March 2018)

Post by thegamer23 » Sun Mar 25, 2018 4:35 am

What i loved about this episode is that it doesn't feel like an ending at all.

More like a beginning of something even bigger. :D :D

It's been a blast, those years. Thank you Toei Animation & all the guys involved.

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Re: Super Episode 131 (25 March 2018)

Post by Xeogran » Sun Mar 25, 2018 4:40 am

Vegeta_Sama wrote:I wonder, why didn't Vegeta go Super Saiyan Evolution at the end against Goku? He said he wanted a Power greater than his. Since Goku can't access Ultra Instinct anymore, SSB E would have given him a nice edge
I have a hunch we'll never be seeing SSB Evolution again. Toei addition, just like the first UI.

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Re: Super Episode 131 (25 March 2018)

Post by TheDipDap1234 » Sun Mar 25, 2018 4:55 am

I liked everything about this episode aside from 2 things.

1) I didn't like how they didn't show Marcarita's reaction to Universe 11's erasure at all. This is just a nitpick though.
2) 18's response to 17's wish. I get it what the writers were going for here, they wanted to show how much she loves her brother, but it just made her look like a horrible person because she didn't care at all about the other universes. She showed feelings when Universe 9 and 2 got erased, so she's not a horrible person, 17 even said that she became much nicer than she was before. I liked 18 in this arc overall, but I can't deny that she was inconsistently written, both when it comes to power and character.
Asura wrote:
Michsi wrote:By far the greatest annoyance is how they actually wrote 18 genuienly asking 17 if he is alright with choosing to save the universes instead of having his cruise ship . What's with her characterization in this arc, it's been all over the place and mostly not good.
She's honestly written like a complete sociopath asshole. Won't participate in the tournament that decides the fate of her universe unless she gets paid, basically calls her husband pathetic after he gets knocked out (even though he saved her ass), and now she prioritizes a cruise ship over restoring billions of lives. Very strange.
She said later on in the tournament that she wants to win to save the life of everyone she likes, so she didn't participate just to get paid.
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Re: Super Episode 131 (25 March 2018)

Post by Captain Sauza » Sun Mar 25, 2018 5:22 am

The ending was so stupid. Not only did they make a bad character win it, but his wish and the revelation about what a selfish wish would have done just makes the entire story arc meaningless. :thumbdown:
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Re: Super Episode 131 (25 March 2018)

Post by emperior » Sun Mar 25, 2018 5:24 am

And so it's over... what a good ride Super has been, I will miss watching a new episode every week, but at least there's the movie to look forward to and the possibility Super will come back stronger than ever in 2019.

This episode was just awesome, I loved every bit of it. The battle was intense, I didn't expect Jiren to go down to a Goku and Freeza team-up at all, and I'm glad 17 was the one getting the wish in the end. The universes being brought back was a predictable wish, but everything surrounding it wasn't, especially 17 being the one to make such a selfless wish - he's really one of the best additions of Super and I'm so happy Toriyama brought him back because he is one of my favorite characters now, and I want to see him again in the future.

The finale is really open-ended and I like it. Seeing all the universes getting brought back was really touching, and I am really interested in seeing what Freeza will be doing, him being Dragon Ball's anti-villain is something I would really like, I think. Whis being the one to resurrect Freeza was really unexpected. And the whole "Zeno wanted a virtuous wish at the end of this tournament" thing is really mysterious and intriguing... do the Gods have some hidden agenda and want to groom the mortals to help them in something much bigger?

I'm so happy with this episode, it's a 10/10 for me. It was just perfect.
Last edited by emperior on Sun Mar 25, 2018 5:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Okara
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Re: Super Episode 131 (25 March 2018)

Post by Okara » Sun Mar 25, 2018 5:25 am

Raphael_Z wrote:
Okara wrote:Good:
Ending with Goku and Vegeta as actual rivals.
Goku not having immediate access to Ultra Instinct.

Bad: Everything else.

It rendered the whole premise of the arc pointless. Why not just do a universal tournament without the stupid, meaningless “erasure” threat? The characters took their sweet ass time having fun for 95% of the arc anyway, so what was the point? It’s just more of Super’s artificial drama.

I’ve always had problems with some of Toriyama’s ultimately-meaningless plot developments, such as Krillin’s second death (reviving Krillin made it meaningless). But this just takes “pointless and fake” to a whole new level. The characters didn’t even have to come up with a creative way to get Zeno or GP to undo the erasures. It’s just the typical “get out of jail free” card with the Dragon Balls because “Oh, Zeno was just testing you guys the whole time trolololol,” which his reasoning for conducting the test doesn’t even make sense. It was random chance that 17 ended up surviving to the end and making a selfless wish. What does that prove about mortals in general? That there are good among the bad? That’s called common sense.

And what the hell is going on with Frieza? Why are they letting him live? The deal was that he’d be revived, not that they’d let him go commit more genocide.
The get out of jail free card has been in Dragon Ball ever since Day 1.

Oh no!!! The Indian boy's dad died? No prob. Dragon Balls.

Oh no!!! Chiaotzu, Krillin and Roshi died? No prob. Dragon Balls.

Oh no!!! Goku died? No prob. Dragon Balls.

The ONLY time when the stakes were high was during the Saiyan arc since Piccolo died so death became permanent (even for just a brief time) but then Namek arc happened.

Then, in Namek the stakes were kind of high again since Goku and Krilin only had one shot at life again (due to the resurrection only once rule) but then Porunga appeared and said "your friend died twice? No prob. Dragon Balls".

Ever since, the stakes have gotten lower and lower and lower. The whole Cell arc was a joke since at any point they could have used the Dragon Balls to solve absolutely everything. Then Kid Buu was only killed BECAUSE of the Dragon Balls (wishing back the Earth, restoring Goku's energies and if Vegeta had asked for a resurrected Ultimate Gohan to be transported to the Kaioshin Planet, everything would have been solved way easier way sooner).

Complaining about the lack of high stakes in Dragon Ball is kind of laughable.
Did you miss the part where I said “I’ve always had problems with some of Toriyama’s ultimately-meaningless plot developments, but this just takes “pointless and fake” to a whole new level.”?

Or how about the part where I said “It’s just the typical get out of jail free card with the Dragon Balls,” clearly acknowledging this issue was present in the original DB.

I guess you were too busy going on a damage-controlling tirade to notice. This being an issue in the past doesn’t excuse them rendering the entire concept of the arc pointless with the same exact issue. It’s drastically worse than it has ever been before.

This arc is one of those rare phenomena where the writers execute pretty much everything wrong and nonsensically.
Last edited by Okara on Sun Mar 25, 2018 5:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Super Episode 131 (25 March 2018)

Post by kemuri07 » Sun Mar 25, 2018 5:25 am

Despite hemming and hawing throughout this entire arc....

I was kind of surprised how positive I am about the episode. I mean, it's fine. Despite my issues with 17 coming back, it was a fun fight. And watching Freeza and Goku team up was cool.

17 "winning" and being the one to make the wish......of course he did. It's obvious the only reason he made it to the end is because he was a popular character. But it didn't bother me. It was....fine.

I'm also glad they didn't go with the "now Frieza is gonna be the new Vegeta" route I was terrified/kind of expecting to happen. It didn't happen...yet. whether or not this will all be on service of some sort of redemption arc remains to be seen.

This episode doesn't change how I feel about Super as a whole, but on its own, it was a decent sendoff.

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Re: Super Episode 131 (25 March 2018)

Post by sintzu » Sun Mar 25, 2018 5:33 am

The last bit of the ending must suck for people who wanted Goku to get a new rival. :lol:

Vegeta is and always will be Goku's only rival cause like he said, a Saiyan's power and potential are endless and Vegeta is the only Saiyan around. 8)
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Re: Super Episode 131 (25 March 2018)

Post by TobyS » Sun Mar 25, 2018 5:36 am

precita wrote:Is it just me or was Yamcha not shown in the ending?
In the ending montage he was wiggling a toy bear at Bulla while everyone stood around smiling and chatting/Vegeta stood off to the side like a grumpy douche. Iirc
Yamcha almost certainly did not cheat on Bulma:
He was afraid of Women, Bulma was the flirty one.
Yamcha wanted to get married (it was his gonna be his wish)
He suggested they settle down in the Trunks saga.
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Re: Super Episode 131 (25 March 2018)

Post by Super Saiyan Swagger » Sun Mar 25, 2018 5:39 am

If I had to complain about something, it's that we didn't get to see Beerus tell the Universe 7 fighters how proud he was. I at least wanted him to say something to Goku.

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