FoolsGil wrote: ↑Tue Mar 17, 2020 10:15 am
When I was a kid to now I was pretty much neutral to the idea of Great Saiyaman. But hearing it analyzed I do wonder why Toriyama pivoted, and if it was because it was unpopular, why he pivoted to the old, instead of pivoting to a new direction involving Gohan.
From a meta perspective, Buu era Dragon Ball is probably the most interesting Dragon Ball ever got. Before Buu the reasoning behind story decisions were easy enough to work out even if the plot point themselves weren't that good. Why does Cell come back ten times stronger than he had been? Because the story would benefit from an over the top finale. Why does the 23rd Budokai end with the destruction of the tournament grounds? Because it's the conclusion of Goku's journey to become the number 1 martial artist on Earth and the characters have outgrown tournaments. It's a good way to emphasize how super human the cast has become.
But why does Buu have three stages? Why can't Goku maintain SSJ3? Why is Buu reincarnated as some dorky Indian kid? Why is the next generation of warriors so hopelessly inept? There aren't any answers that make narrative sense, not unless we assume themes too cynical even for Toriyama.
So I'm really looking forward to hearing Mistaire's take on the Buu Arc. I don't care about its ranking alongisde the other DB arcs. I just need someone to help make sense of it all lmao
My opinions suck. You should probably mute me to spare yourself having to see them.
"If someone gets Star Wars wrong? Death threats. If a kid learns that a shitty song they liked when they were 12 was a cover of a song made in 1984? Death threats. If someone makes a Sonic game that's too dark and edgy? Death threats. If someone makes a Sonic game that isn't too dark and edgy? Death threats. If someone criticizes Naruto? Lots of death threats. Sexualizes pokemon? UNIVERSAL PRAISE." - Plague of Gripes
I liked Videl with pigtails more too It might be unpopular opinion, but i think Toriyama drawings got worse in Buu Saga, backgrounds became less detailed, and way characters are drawn is worse too, they became more ugly.
My Twitter: @kamil198811
Bulma fan
Thanks to Discotek:
Magic Knight Rayearth get DVD release in 2015 and Blu-Ray release on 2016
Saint Seiya: The Lost Canvas get DVD release in 2015
I had become so accustomed to DBD's well-deserved absence after December that I double-taked when I saw the upload alert!
Is there one thing that made it so clear to you that Dragon Ball's "civilian" side had changed so much? The breakdown on how out of place a secret-identity bearing super hero really is in Dragon Ball, a world in which just 20~ years prior mere mortals were watching superhuman feats with such interest that the World Tournament was held more frequently to capitalize on it, and King Piccolo returned to destroy cities. Funny as well that Gohan is the one to do it, when he was born not long after Piccolo Junior destroys the Tournament and cuts that exposure off. If anything, I feel like there is a generation gap joke in there somewhere, between those that remember King Piccolo's return and old the tournaments and those who came after them, but even then Videl is vaguely aware of Goku's Champion title, and surely not without some mention of all the cool stuff he did.
JulieYBM wrote:
Pannaliciour wrote:Reading all the comments and interviews, my conclusion is: nobody knows what the hell is going on.
As usual, patrons got to see this a couple of days early, but I figured we all needed a stay-at-home distraction. Plus, since last episode was all about Gohan becoming a superhero, I couldn't wait to dig in to how badly it got screwed up! Enjoy!
BlazingFiddlesticks wrote: ↑Mon Mar 30, 2020 2:34 pm
Is there one thing that made it so clear to you that Dragon Ball's "civilian" side had changed so much?
I don't know if there was one thing. It's certainly a combination of elements I mentioned back in The Cell Arc. However, if I did have to narrow it down to one thing, it would certainly be the character of Mr. Satan and the populace's blind devotion to him.
Do you follow the most comprehensive and entertaining Dragon Ball analysis series on YouTube? If you do, you're smart and awesome and fairly attractive. If not, see what all the fuss is about without even having to leave Kanzenshuu:
Great Saiyaman was where Gohan showed the most amount of flair in his character. It's such a shame it only lasted a handful of chapters and most of the elements introduced with the Great Saiyaman persona were abandoned so quickly.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
Poor Sonya Gomez. She was Geordie's last chance at a relationship and we didn't even know it yet.
Thanks for the episode! Great work as usual.
My opinions suck. You should probably mute me to spare yourself having to see them.
"If someone gets Star Wars wrong? Death threats. If a kid learns that a shitty song they liked when they were 12 was a cover of a song made in 1984? Death threats. If someone makes a Sonic game that's too dark and edgy? Death threats. If someone makes a Sonic game that isn't too dark and edgy? Death threats. If someone criticizes Naruto? Lots of death threats. Sexualizes pokemon? UNIVERSAL PRAISE." - Plague of Gripes
But even if some things are walked back a bit I do agree that Toriyama is trying real change this arc, and that Super don't seem ready to commit to that.
Dragon Ball Dissection returns with training for the upcoming tournament. So naturally this episode focuses on Son Goten and Videl and Super Saiyan Bargain Sales. Is Goten a worthy addition to the cast? How about that Videl and Gohan romance?
Do you follow the most comprehensive and entertaining Dragon Ball analysis series on YouTube? If you do, you're smart and awesome and fairly attractive. If not, see what all the fuss is about without even having to leave Kanzenshuu:
I've always been conflicted about Goten and Trunks attaining SSJ the way they did in the Majin Boo arc.
It certainly works as a decent swerve of what we expect SSJ transformation to be like. And it also wonderfully ties into the core theme of progress in Dragon Ball, with how each new generation learns a supposedly difficult ability/technique with greater ease than the previous generation.
However...
With how much SSJ is built up from the very moment it was first named dropped back on Namek, and how the transformation is used later as a foundation for physical and personal growth for the some of the main cast, seeing it reduced to basically a gag is pretty damn jarring. I wouldn't say it completely devalues the form. But when take into consideration how much hard work Goku, Gohan, Vegeta and Future Trunks went through to attain the SSJ form, it certainly does ruin a lot of its mystique by making the form less of a significant physical and mental journey, and more of just an inconvenience that you can easily overcome.
I honestly think Toei's additions to some of the narrative context for surrounding how SSJ was achieved really did a lot to amplify the resentment some fans had towards Goten and Trunks for gaining SSJ the way they did. Especially when you take into consideration how much Toei provided additional visual content for some SSJ transformation (Vegeta and Gohan) or made changes to other SSJ transformations to provide more emotional impact (Future Trunks and Goku).
Overall, it's a unique gag that still somehow works on a thematic level, but at the same, you can't really hold it against somebody if they were to look at that scene and go, "What just happened?"
As far as Videl is concerned, for me, her character peaked when she wanted to learn how to fly and manipulate Ki. Honestly though, the anime did a WAY better job of handling those scenes than Toriyama. Which would be a recurring theme for the Majin Boo arc in general.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
Toriyama really should have spent more time with the "domesticated" Vegeta if he wanted to sell Majin Vegeta just a few months later. As an aside I always thought Gohan's whole relationship with that family (Vegeta, Bulma, Trunks) could have been explored more. Not dwelt on, because this is Dragon Ball, but maybe a few chapters to establish the new normal between the Son family and Bulma's family in the seven year gap.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote:
Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
So, DBZ Movie 9, AKA Movie that killed the (Team Four) star is next...
My Twitter: @kamil198811
Bulma fan
Thanks to Discotek:
Magic Knight Rayearth get DVD release in 2015 and Blu-Ray release on 2016
Saint Seiya: The Lost Canvas get DVD release in 2015
It shocked me that Broli's movie ended up being as long a video as it was. That this one was almost exactly as long is astounding to me. So enjoy me talking about this movie for nearly half an hour!
Do you follow the most comprehensive and entertaining Dragon Ball analysis series on YouTube? If you do, you're smart and awesome and fairly attractive. If not, see what all the fuss is about without even having to leave Kanzenshuu:
Thanks Gaffer Tape for making me clamour for a Dragon Ball kart racing game.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
Lord Beerus wrote: ↑Mon May 25, 2020 1:28 pm
Thanks Gaffer Tape for making me clamour for a Dragon Ball kart racing game.
That's the whole reason I do what I do!
Do you follow the most comprehensive and entertaining Dragon Ball analysis series on YouTube? If you do, you're smart and awesome and fairly attractive. If not, see what all the fuss is about without even having to leave Kanzenshuu:
Really enjoyed the talk about colors. The animation in these films is always a bit on the stiff side but I really enjoy the talk about the colors since I feel like they not only popped more but because they help set up a sort of second-dialogue other than just silly ol' written words.
I kind of wish the entire movie was just that tournament, as it's by far the highlight of it. Apart from that, nothing really memorable happened. I just found this channel recently so I'm not caught up, but so far the content is great, especially for someone who's not interested in all the modern focused channels that just cover new content. It's refreshing to see the original material get covered in such a detailed way.
As one who somehow finds little fun Mario Kart and much prefers Diddy Kong Racing's priorities, I appreciate that analogy.
Bojack's an enjoyable movie, but it's always been top of the middle at best to me. You have the very novel first act, great artwork all around, and some of the widest use of the cast in any of the Z movies, but when the villains don't exist and most of the character roles are weak what's left is entertaining but still more DBZ movie fighting. At risk of quoting Nick Landis, its in a similar place to arguing Lord Slug is super formulaic but deceptively enjoyable due to its consistently dirty fighting, though I would put Bojack above it for mixing things up (and it is not as if the bad blue five aren't underhanded themselves). On Bojack's crew not being the announced intergalactic fighters, I can see the writers wanting to make them mysterious in a vacuum, most of them have good intro shots that wouldn't have worked if you knew characters of that species were forthcoming, but I could settle for Bojack being the one show up on camera promising challenges to his amigos who turn out to be lethal. But then that takes the spotlight off a fight with Mr. Satan being the end of the tournament, doesn't it?
JulieYBM wrote:
Pannaliciour wrote:Reading all the comments and interviews, my conclusion is: nobody knows what the hell is going on.
It might be unpopular opinion, but i think Toriyama drawings got worse in Buu Saga, backgrounds became less detailed, and way characters are drawn is worse too, they became more ugly.
