Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

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RandomGuy96
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by RandomGuy96 » Sun Nov 29, 2015 4:44 am

SSJ3 Vegeta wrote:Re: Spopovich and Yamu having those white auras.

Didnt Dende after being powered up by Guru also have those? And he was hinted to be below Mr.Satan
Good point. Dende had a flight aura despite being weaker than Satan.
DBZAOTA482 wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:Saying that Spopo or Videl are anywhere close to BODB Goku in strength is a huge joke. They can't casually lift cars, they can't get shot in the face with a pistol and be okay (on the contrary, one pistol bullet could kill either of them), they can't kill a bear in one punch, they can't take an axe to the head and be okay, they can't decapitate dinosaurs with a stick, they can't get punched through stone pillars and be okay, they can't hunt animals that would rip a normal human to shreds for fun, they can't break a stack of three bricks by poking it, they can't punch someone so hard they go flying a dozen meters, they can't break a rock bigger than them by hugging it, the list goes on and on. It's not on BODB Goku's level, not on BODB Yamcha's level, and it's not on BODB Krillin's level.

They're probably below peak human levels in pure strength, durability, and speed. Gohan was unsure if Videl was superior to Satan (who is weaker than Bob Sapp) at first, and 1 month of training wouldn't increase her power by that much. Videl herself was pretty clearly superior to Spopovich in a normal brawl, he could just regenerate from whatever she could throw at him, e.g. the broken neck.
Oh wow... you hit the nail right on the coffin. Good work.

Oh and Krillin is not in BoDB. Don't forget BoDB Chi-Chi (outran and decapitating a T-rex while scared) and even Blonde Lunch (she broke out the grip and one-shotted a man of a similar build to the thug Videl took a few hits to bring down) are stronger.
Krillin wasn't in the first arc, technically, but I was referring to his power from around that era, prior to his training with Roshi.
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RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Saiga » Sun Nov 29, 2015 5:09 am

What suggests Dende is weaker than Satan? Not that I doubt it, I just didn't think we had anything to compare them.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by RandomGuy96 » Sun Nov 29, 2015 5:32 am

Saiga wrote:What suggests Dende is weaker than Satan? Not that I doubt it, I just didn't think we had anything to compare them.
Goku decides to fuse with Satan instead of Dende, because "Dende's not a warrior".
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Saiga » Sun Nov 29, 2015 9:05 am

Yeah, I've seen people say that isn't about strength but fighting skills. Though I really don't buy that, because it's not like Goku is lacking in skill compared to either of them.

New question: is there anything that explicitly contradicts the Daizenshuu's claim that Goten's battle power is equal to Gohan's?
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Sun Nov 29, 2015 11:44 am

Saiga wrote:What suggests Dende is weaker than Satan? Not that I doubt it, I just didn't think we had anything to compare them.
Dende was constantly referred to as weak (and nothing else, really)... while Mr. Satan is at least treated as a powerful fighter by human standards.
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DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by LightBing » Sun Nov 29, 2015 12:08 pm

Saiga wrote:New question: is there anything that explicitly contradicts the Daizenshuu's claim that Goten's battle power is equal to Gohan's?
There's Gohan own words. He said if he's not careful the kids will catch up to him(before the 25th TB). So unless one thinks Goten got a decent power up from the RoSaT, he should be weaker than Gohan.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by DanielSSJ » Sun Nov 29, 2015 4:09 pm

Let's compare the Boo Arc Super Saiyans, in equal forms. If Cell Games Gohan was a 10, how strong would theses guys be?
Gohan (Boo Arc)
Goten and Trunks (pre RoSaT)
Goten and Trunks (post RoSaT)
Vegeta (pre Majin)
Vegeta (post Majin)
Goku
Gotenks (pre RoSaT)
Gotenks (post RoSaT)

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Sun Nov 29, 2015 4:19 pm

DanielSSJ wrote:Let's compare the Boo Arc Super Saiyans, in equal forms. If Cell Games Gohan was a 10, how strong would theses guys be?
Gohan (Boo Arc): 10 --> 10.3 [25th TB] --> 15 [Z sword]
Goten and Trunks (pre RoSaT): Goten: 7.6 ---> 8 [25th TB], Trunks: 8 --> 8.3 [25th TB]
Goten and Trunks (post RoSaT): Goten: 8.6, Trunks: 9
Vegeta (pre Majin): 10.3 --> 10.6 [25th TB]
Vegeta (post Majin): 13.3
Goku: 13 --> 13.3 [25th TB]
Gotenks (pre RoSaT): 23.3
Gotenks (post RoSaT): 30

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by RandomGuy96 » Sun Nov 29, 2015 6:52 pm

Saiga wrote:Yeah, I've seen people say that isn't about strength but fighting skills. Though I really don't buy that, because it's not like Goku is lacking in skill compared to either of them.

New question: is there anything that explicitly contradicts the Daizenshuu's claim that Goten's battle power is equal to Gohan's?
Well, there's this:

Chapter: 427 (DBZ 233), P12.2-6
Context: after Gohan and Goten spar a little bit
Goten: “But you really are amazing, big brother! I couldn’t even hit you once.”
Gohan: “You’re very gifted at grappling too, Goten! You really surprised me! I hadn’t known you were that good! If you train well, maybe you’ll be able to enter the Tenkaichi Budoukai too!”
Goten: “Really!? But Trunks is even stronger than me. We play-fight together!”
Gohan: “Really!? That’s how you guys have been playing?...*thinking* If I’m not careful, I’ll be outstripped…by these little squirts…”

Goten's first sentence certainly implies that Gohan is superior to him in the same form, even if the second can be dismissed as "Gohan is still one form above Goten". Of course, you can just take the comment to mean that Goten is equal to Gohan in the same form after the ROSAT training.
Last edited by RandomGuy96 on Mon Nov 30, 2015 12:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by ThePiccolo » Sun Nov 29, 2015 7:06 pm

DanielSSJ wrote:Let's compare the Boo Arc Super Saiyans, in equal forms. If Cell Games Gohan was a 10, how strong would theses guys be?
Gohan (Boo Arc)- 6.4 (Post Budokai Training) -8.2 (Post Z-Sword Training)- 11.4
Goten and Trunks (pre RoSaT)- 1.4
Goten and Trunks (post RoSaT)- 2.7
Vegeta (pre Majin)- 11
Vegeta (post Majin)- 13.6
Goku- 13.6
Gotenks (pre RoSaT)- 54.5
Gotenks (post RoSaT)- 109

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by dbgtFO » Mon Nov 30, 2015 3:21 am

DanielSSJ wrote:Let's compare the Boo Arc Super Saiyans, in equal forms. If Cell Games Gohan was a 10, how strong would theses guys be?
Goten and Trunks (pre RoSaT): 3.
Goten and Trunks (post RoSaT): 6.
Vegeta (pre Majin): 9.
Vegeta (post Majin): 12.
Goku: 12.
Gohan (Post retcon): 16.8.
Gotenks (pre RoSaT): 60.
Gotenks (post RoSaT): 120.[/quote]

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Saiga » Mon Nov 30, 2015 8:43 am

RandomGuy96 wrote:
Saiga wrote:Yeah, I've seen people say that isn't about strength but fighting skills. Though I really don't buy that, because it's not like Goku is lacking in skill compared to either of them.

New question: is there anything that explicitly contradicts the Daizenshuu's claim that Goten's battle power is equal to Gohan's?
Well, there's this:

Chapter: 427 (DBZ 233), P12.2-6
Context: after Gohan and Goten spar a little bit
Goten: “But you really are amazing, big brother! I couldn’t even hit you once.”
Gohan: “You’re very gifted at grappling too, Goten! You really surprised me! I hadn’t known you were that good! If you train well, maybe you’ll be able to enter the Tenkaichi Budoukai too!”
Goten: “Really!? But Trunks is even stronger than me. We play-fight together!”
Gohan: “Really!? That’s how you guys have been playing?...*thinking* If I’m not careful, I’ll be outstripped…by these little squirts…”

Goten's first sentence certainly implies that Gohan is superior to him in the same form, even if the second can be dismissed as "Gohan is still one form above Goten". Of course, you can just take the comment to mean that Goten is equal to Gohan in the same form after the ROSAT training.
The only problem I was thinking of is if you take that to mean Gohan's more skilled, especially given Gohan's follow-up. But skill is such an untouched-upon subject I do assume they're referring to strength any time it's vague-ish.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Kaboom » Mon Nov 30, 2015 1:16 pm

DanielSSJ wrote:Let's compare the Boo Arc Super Saiyans, in equal forms. If Cell Games Gohan was a 10, how strong would theses guys be?
Let's see here...

Teen Gohan: 9.5 (I don't think anything but his SS2 power dropped all that much)
Goten & Trunks: 4 & 4.5 (About half as strong as him, remarkably powerful for their age)
-- Post-RosaT: 5.5 & 6 (Most of the change seems limited to Gotenks himself)
Vegeta: 9/9.5 (More or less caught up to Gohan)
-- Power unlocked: 12 (More powerful than kid Gohan and equal to Goku, thanks to Bobbidi)
Goku: 12 (Noticeably more powerful than Gohan was, a new high that Vegeta became desperate to match)
Gotenks: 20 (A lot more powerful than the others, but still below Goku or Vegeta as SS2s and not quite able to beat Boo yet)
-- Post-RoSaT: 40 (Now things are a lot different, even without SS2 and SS3 on top of it)
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by DanielSSJ » Mon Nov 30, 2015 1:53 pm

Now that I have your answers, here are mine:

Gohan: 9
Goten & Trunks: 4----(RoSaT)---->10
Vegeta: 10 --(Majin boost)-->12
Goku: 12
Gotenks: 20 ----(RoSaT)---->50

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Noah » Mon Nov 30, 2015 3:45 pm

I want a consensus of this:

- SSJ Gotenks (Pre RoSaT) is strong but still could be defeated by SSJ2 Goku or SSJ2 Vegeta, right?

- SSJ Gotenks (Post RoSaT) is indeed above or the same level as SSJ3 Goku? Or would be only SSJ2 Gotenks (Post RoSaT) > SSJ3 Goku?
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by ahill1 » Mon Nov 30, 2015 4:31 pm

Kaboom wrote:
DanielSSJ wrote:Let's compare the Boo Arc Super Saiyans, in equal forms. If Cell Games Gohan was a 10, how strong would theses guys be?
Let's see here...

Teen Gohan: 9.5 (I don't think anything but his SS2 power dropped all that much)
Goten & Trunks: 4 & 4.5 (About half as strong as him, remarkably powerful for their age)
-- Post-RosaT: 5.5 & 6 (Most of the change seems limited to Gotenks himself)
Vegeta: 9/9.5 (More or less caught up to Gohan)
-- Power unlocked: 12 (More powerful than kid Gohan and equal to Goku, thanks to Bobbidi)
Goku: 12 (Noticeably more powerful than Gohan was, a new high that Vegeta became desperate to match)
Gotenks: 20 (A lot more powerful than the others, but still below Goku or Vegeta as SS2s and not quite able to beat Boo yet)
-- Post-RoSaT: 40 (Now things are a lot different, even without SS2 and SS3 on top of it)
Kaboom, only a question : Why do you have Teen Gohan stronger than Vegeta ( pre power unlocked ) ?

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by dbgtFO » Mon Nov 30, 2015 4:43 pm

Noah wrote:I want a consensus of this:
Don't get your hopes up.
- SSJ Gotenks (Pre RoSaT) is strong but still could be defeated by SSJ2 Goku or SSJ2 Vegeta, right?
Only if he was screwing around, otherwise he should be plenty stronger than them.
- SSJ Gotenks (Post RoSaT) is indeed above or the same level as SSJ3 Goku? Or would be only SSJ2 Gotenks (Post RoSaT) > SSJ3 Goku?
Either the same tier or a tier above SS3 Goku.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by LightBing » Mon Nov 30, 2015 5:04 pm

Noah wrote:I want a consensus of this:

- SSJ Gotenks (Pre RoSaT) is strong but still could be defeated by SSJ2 Goku or SSJ2 Vegeta, right?

- SSJ Gotenks (Post RoSaT) is indeed above or the same level as SSJ3 Goku? Or would be only SSJ2 Gotenks (Post RoSaT) > SSJ3 Goku?
I have SSJ Gotenks(Pre RoSaT) slightly weaker than SSJ3 Goku. SSJ Gotenks (Post RoSaT) decently stronger than SSJ3 Goku. For what it's worth.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by ThePiccolo » Mon Nov 30, 2015 6:24 pm

Noah wrote:I want a consensus of this:

- SSJ Gotenks (Pre RoSaT) is strong but still could be defeated by SSJ2 Goku or SSJ2 Vegeta, right?

- SSJ Gotenks (Post RoSaT) is indeed above or the same level as SSJ3 Goku? Or would be only SSJ2 Gotenks (Post RoSaT) > SSJ3 Goku?
Depends on if you use the Daizenshuu statement, where Gotenks surpassed Vegeta only after the RoSaT. Going by the manga, I have SSJ Gotenks stronger than SSJ2 Goku/Vegeta, but weaker than the max power we see from Majin Buu. Post RoSaT, I have very close to Kid Buu level.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by DanielSSJ » Mon Nov 30, 2015 7:10 pm

Noah wrote:I want a consensus of this:

- SSJ Gotenks (Pre RoSaT) is strong but still could be defeated by SSJ2 Goku or SSJ2 Vegeta, right?

- SSJ Gotenks (Post RoSaT) is indeed above or the same level as SSJ3 Goku? Or would be only SSJ2 Gotenks (Post RoSaT) > SSJ3 Goku?
I put SSJ Gotenks (pre RoSaT) sightly below SSJ2 Goku and SSJ2 Vegeta. Post Room of Spirit and Time, I put him somewhat above Fat Boo, but significantly below SSJ3 Goku or Kid Boo. Mind you, I subscribe to the idea that Fat Boo is about twice as strong as the Super Saiyan 2 characters, based on how Gohan's SSJ2 energy was almost half of what they needed to revive Boo, and how Goku was confident that he could've beaten Fat Boo with SSJ3 if he really wanted to.

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