Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Kaboom » Sun May 01, 2016 9:27 pm

Piccolo's official 3,500 is likely meant to be his max output when attacking or something, since his normal "resting" power was read at only 1,000-something by Nappa's scouter. So the idea would be that even when Piccolo puts his all into his attacks, he still doesn't quite measure up to Nappa's normal power level and abnormal durability.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Analytic » Sun May 01, 2016 9:40 pm

ZombieVito wrote:Burter is faster yet weaker than Ginyu. Same goes for Goku when he arrived to Namek.

Just because you have the same power level as someone else it doesn't mean you have the same speed.
I don't see how two examples equates to "never" being the case.

Not to mention, the point of FPSS was to find and utilize the perfect balance between speed and power (and to remove the strain). I don't see why Gohan would just randomly be off balance while everyone else is normal.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by RandomGuy96 » Mon May 02, 2016 2:06 am

I would like to note that, while Piccolo appears to do poorly against Nappa, they never directly fight each other:

-Piccolo and Krillin launch an attack on Nappa while using Ten as a distraction; they both hit him. He's stunned for a moment is noticeably bleeding after.

-Piccolo shoots a blast at him after Gohan screws the pooch. Nappa dodges it.

-Piccolo tries to grab Nappa's tail, but that tactic doesn't work for obvious reasons. Nappa elbows him on the head, knocking him out cold for a minute.

-Piccolo gets back up and shoots Nappa in the back with a quick one-handed ki blast while he's distracted with Gohan. The blast hurts Nappa enough to get a reaction out of him and leaves a noticeable burn.

-Nappa charges up a blast and throws it at Gohan. Piccolo jumps in the way, takes it, and dies.

I don't see an enormous difference in power between them from these scenes. Piccolo hurt Nappa noticeably whenever he landed a hit, Nappa cared enough to dodge Piccolo's blast, and Piccolo wasn't so much slower than Nappa that Nappa could outspeed him like Goku outsped the Ginyu Force. I know some people will say that Nappa knocking out Piccolo with one hit "proves" his superiority, but that blow was an elbow to the back of the skull. Nappa's elbow is nearly as big as Piccolo's entire head, and Piccolo wasn't on guard at all. That probably would've knocked him out even if they were equally powerful... and in the case, Nappa was actually noticeably more powerful than Piccolo. In unluckier circumstances, that could have easily killed him.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Mon May 02, 2016 2:47 am

SSJ3 Vegeta wrote: — Yeah but Piccolo still considers Freeza as far superior to Gohan [200,000 in your list] and Vegeta.
— You think he fought the Androids again after he returned ?
— As Piccolo noted,#18 was able to destroy Vegeta because #18's' stamina won't fall.
Chapter: 353 (DBZ 159), P12.4-6
Context: after Trunks says Vegeta seems to be doing OK fighting No.18
Piccolo: “Vegeta’s going to be killed…[ ] Watch…Bit by bit, the android is starting to push him back. It’s because his enemy’s power never falls at all, while Vegeta’s stamina falls the more he moves.”
— Oh,so you nerfed the kids,well it's the opposite for me.Since i bumped Piccolo. :)
- Well Piccolo is sensing Freeza's full power mid conversation. Nail couldn't since he was dying. That's my reasoning at least.
- Yes. In the Mecha arc he says he's hopeless against them but in the Android arc he apparently can fight them and do alright for a while.
- I take that quote as meaning that currently Vegeta is doing good but eventually will fall because of the stamina issue. I don't think he was that tired at that time.
- Shocking isn't it? Since I'm probably the biggest Piccolo fanboy in the site. After reflecting on him and putting the fanboy in me aside, I came to the conclusion that there's literally nothing indicating Piccolo had a bigger training increase than Goku and Vegeta from Cell to RoF. At least by the U6 arc he trained with Gohan and later a "weakened Ultimate" Gohan, so he could be SS2 tier without causing much (If any) issue.

P.S. One more thing I like to add to Random's post is that there's another good example of a fighter knocking out cold another fighter of similar power by a surprise attack: Majin Vegeta vs Goku.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Analytic » Mon May 02, 2016 7:30 am

Can't take credit for this argument, but something Super Saiyan Turlast x4 brought up was that Krillin still considered Nappa's battle power "beyond belief" (or something like that) even after sensing Goku's 5,000. I'm pretty sure that that'd at least prove Nappa > 5,000.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by DanielSSJ » Mon May 02, 2016 7:59 am

Analytic wrote:Can't take credit for this argument, but something Super Saiyan Turlast x4 brought up was that Krillin still considered Nappa's battle power "beyond belief" (or something like that) even after sensing Goku's 5,000. I'm pretty sure that that'd at least prove Nappa > 5,000.
That doesn't necessarily mean anything. Even if Nappa isn't quite as strong as Goku's 5,000, he's still over twice as strong as Kuririn and is right in front of him.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by apex_pretador » Mon May 02, 2016 8:54 am

Analytic wrote:Can't take credit for this argument, but something Super Saiyan Turlast x4 brought up was that Krillin still considered Nappa's battle power "beyond belief" (or something like that) even after sensing Goku's 5,000. I'm pretty sure that that'd at least prove Nappa > 5,000.
Nappa implied that he can take "5000" goku if he killed gohan & Krillin & Piccolo, but if they are alive, then he will have trouble.

He is definitely much below 8000 for sure. He didn't even believe in "8000+" so him fighting goku and thinking he can win doesn't prove anything.
He should be slightly above 5000 IMO.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by DanielSSJ » Mon May 02, 2016 9:57 am

apex_pretador wrote:
Analytic wrote:Can't take credit for this argument, but something Super Saiyan Turlast x4 brought up was that Krillin still considered Nappa's battle power "beyond belief" (or something like that) even after sensing Goku's 5,000. I'm pretty sure that that'd at least prove Nappa > 5,000.
Nappa implied that he can take "5000" goku if he killed gohan & Krillin & Piccolo, but if they are alive, then he will have trouble.

He is definitely much below 8000 for sure. He didn't even believe in "8000+" so him fighting goku and thinking he can win doesn't prove anything.
He should be slightly above 5000 IMO.
You'd be surprised, but I think I saw someone say that Nappa's full strength would've been around 12,000.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by apex_pretador » Mon May 02, 2016 10:11 am

DanielSSJ wrote:
apex_pretador wrote:
Analytic wrote:Can't take credit for this argument, but something Super Saiyan Turlast x4 brought up was that Krillin still considered Nappa's battle power "beyond belief" (or something like that) even after sensing Goku's 5,000. I'm pretty sure that that'd at least prove Nappa > 5,000.
Nappa implied that he can take "5000" goku if he killed gohan & Krillin & Piccolo, but if they are alive, then he will have trouble.

He is definitely much below 8000 for sure. He didn't even believe in "8000+" so him fighting goku and thinking he can win doesn't prove anything.
He should be slightly above 5000 IMO.
You'd be surprised, but I think I saw someone say that Nappa's full strength would've been around 12,000.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
I think I've seen it somewhere too.
I've seen vegeta's power around 37000 also (while firing galick gun)
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Analytic » Mon May 02, 2016 11:07 am

Yes, but if I recall correctly, Krillin thought that Goku was crazy for trying to go up against Nappa, too. I don't have the VIZ app on my phone, so I can't go back and check at the moment.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by ahill1 » Mon May 02, 2016 3:38 pm

Analytic wrote:Can't take credit for this argument, but something Super Saiyan Turlast x4 brought up was that Krillin still considered Nappa's battle power "beyond belief" (or something like that) even after sensing Goku's 5,000. I'm pretty sure that that'd at least prove Nappa > 5,000.
That's a pretty good point. Good catch, Super Saiyan Turlast x4.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by ahill1 » Tue May 03, 2016 9:36 pm

I probably already asked it, but I'd like to see your numbers again:

Future Android #17
Future Android #18

Trunks SSJ (Androids saga)
Goku SSJ (Androids saga)
Vegeta SSJ (Androids saga)

Imperfect Cell (Ginger Town)

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by DanielSSJ » Tue May 03, 2016 10:25 pm

ahill1 wrote:I probably already asked it, but I'd like to see your numbers again:

Future Android #17
Future Android #18

Trunks SSJ (Androids saga)
Goku SSJ (Androids saga)
Vegeta SSJ (Androids saga)

Imperfect Cell (Ginger Town)
Future 17 - 280,000,000
Future 18 - 260,000,000

Future Trunks - 200,000,000
Goku - 240,000,000
Vegeta - 260,000,000

Imperfect Cell - 290
Last edited by DanielSSJ on Wed May 04, 2016 12:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Bansho64 » Tue May 03, 2016 10:55 pm

Kaboom wrote:Piccolo's official 3,500 is likely meant to be his max output when attacking or something, since his normal "resting" power was read at only 1,000-something by Nappa's scouter. So the idea would be that even when Piccolo puts his all into his attacks, he still doesn't quite measure up to Nappa's normal power level and abnormal durability.
How high do you put Nappa? Sorry I know this has probably been a frequently asked question but I'm curious considering that I've seen many debates on whether he was 6,000 or 7,500.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Tue May 03, 2016 11:36 pm

ahill1 wrote:I probably already asked it, but I'd like to see your numbers again:
Future Android #17: 280,000,000
Future Android #18: 260,000,000

Trunks SSJ (Androids saga): 220,000,000
Goku SSJ (Androids saga): 240,000,000
Vegeta SSJ (Androids saga): 250,000,000

Imperfect Cell (Ginger Town): 270,000,000

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by apex_pretador » Wed May 04, 2016 1:08 am

ahill1 wrote:I probably already asked it, but I'd like to see your numbers again:

Future Android #17
Future Android #18

Trunks SSJ (Androids saga)
Goku SSJ (Androids saga)
Vegeta SSJ (Androids saga)

Imperfect Cell (Ginger Town)
I probably already answered but:

Future 17 = 170 million
Future 18 = 165 million

Trunks = 125 million
Goku = 150 million
Vegeta = 150 million

Imperfect cell = 165 million
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by RandomGuy96 » Wed May 04, 2016 4:53 am

ahill1 wrote:I probably already asked it, but I'd like to see your numbers again:

Future Android #17
Future Android #18

Trunks SSJ (Androids saga)
Goku SSJ (Androids saga)
Vegeta SSJ (Androids saga)

Imperfect Cell (Ginger Town)
Future Android #17: 280,000,000
Future Android #18: 270,000,000

Trunks SSJ (Androids saga): 180,000,000
Goku SSJ (Androids saga): 240,000,000
Vegeta SSJ (Androids saga): 250,000,000

Imperfect Cell (Ginger Town): 270,000,000
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by ThePiccolo » Wed May 04, 2016 8:41 pm

ahill1 wrote:I probably already asked it, but I'd like to see your numbers again:

Future Android #17
Future Android #18

Trunks SSJ (Androids saga)
Goku SSJ (Androids saga)
Vegeta SSJ (Androids saga)

Imperfect Cell (Ginger Town)
Future Android #17 - 260,000,000
Future Android #18 - 240,000,000

Trunks SSJ (Androids saga) - 195,000,000
Goku SSJ (Androids saga) - 225,000,000
Vegeta SSJ (Androids saga) - 240,000,000

Imperfect Cell (Ginger Town) - 250,000,000
Last edited by ThePiccolo on Wed May 04, 2016 8:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Analytic » Wed May 04, 2016 8:42 pm

ahill1 wrote:I probably already asked it, but I'd like to see your numbers again:

Future Android #17
Future Android #18

Trunks SSJ (Androids saga)
Goku SSJ (Androids saga)
Vegeta SSJ (Androids saga)

Imperfect Cell (Ginger Town)
Future Android #17: 100
Future Android #18: 100

Trunks SSJ (Androids saga): 90
Goku SSJ (Androids saga): 96
Vegeta SSJ (Androids saga): 100

Imperfect Cell (Ginger Town): 120

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by VegetaSSJBlue » Wed May 04, 2016 9:41 pm

What are your numbers for Pui Pui?

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