Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[Sailor Haumea]

Anyone wanna do anime PLs (+ movies and specials)?

[dragonball0900]

Yes, I'm making them right now. Here it's Dragon Ball Z Movie 1:

Weighted Goku – 336

Weighted Piccolo – 322

Krillin – 206

Kami – 310

Base Ginger – 168

Base Sansho - 172

Base Nicky – 176

Transformed Ginger – 210

Transformed Sansho - 215

Transformed Nicky - 220

Base Garlic Jr – 400

Transformed Garlic Jr – 500

Goku – 416

Piccolo – 408

Enraged Gohan – 1307

Any comments regarding these and Raditz' arc power levels are welcomed.

[Sailor Haumea]

Since Dead Zone is over a year before Raditz Saga chronologically, the power levels should be lower in Dead Zone than in Raditz Saga.

[dragonball0900]

Where was stated that it took place a whole year before Raditz? I remember it was before yeah, but 1 year? Well then again, the power levels wouldn't be that different though.

[Sailor Haumea]

Where was stated that it took place a whole year before Raditz? I remember it was before yeah, but 1 year? Well then again, the power levels wouldn't be that different though.

It has to be a year before for the DBs to be active. Gohan's hat has the Four-Star Ball, and it's not stone, so a year must have passed since Dead Zone.

[dragonball0900]

Where was stated that it took place a whole year before Raditz? I remember it was before yeah, but 1 year? Well then again, the power levels wouldn't be that different though.

It has to be a year before for the DBs to be active. Gohan's hat has the Four-Star Ball, and it's not stone, so a year must have passed since Dead Zone.

Oh yeah. You're right there. I completely forgot about that. But still, the powers shouldn't really change that much. Maybe Goku is 405 and Piccolo 400. Krillin would be 202-3 or so. The big boosts happened in Z.

[ZombieVito]

What do you guys have Saiyan Saga Vegeta at after he turns back into human after having his tail chopped off?

Above Nappa? Below?

Vegeta: 18,000
-- Oozaru transformation: 80,000
-- After Oozaru transformation: 4,000
-- After getting hit by the Genkidama: 1,500

The thing is that I put 1200 to Raditz, because a 1307 of power from Gohan managed to weakened him a lot. And Piccolo's Special Beam Canon, which was 1330 (1440 at maximum) killed Raditz, that makes me think that Raditz is more or less around the 1200-1300 place than 1500.

You don't need to be stronger than someone to damage him.

[dragonball0900]

Anyways, here are the Power Levels of the Saiyan Saga battle against Nappa and the Saibamen (Vegeta coming next):

Gohan (Supressed) – 981

Piccolo (Supressed) – 1220

Krillin (Supressed) – 1083

Saibamen – 1200

Tien – 1830

Yamcha – 1480

Krillin – 1770

Chiaotzu – 610

Weighted Piccolo – 1970

Piccolo – 2500

Gohan’s Masenko - 2800

Nappa – 4000

Goku (Supressed) – 5000

Goku – 8000

Full Power Nappa – 7500

Goku Kaioken X2 – 16000


Now, here’s my reasoning for some of them.

I don’t believe on Piccolo’s power level being 3500 as the Daizenshuu says so. It’s too close to Nappa’s 4000, so I lowered him down to 2500. Also there’s Angry Gohan, who’s Masenko was 2800. Surely Gohan being angry should surpass Piccolo since Piccolo himself stated that, so 2500 it’s what fits here.

Also Weighted Piccolo is 1970 because I’m using an strictly X1.27 multiplier for Piccolo’s weighting clothes, since that’s what happens on the Raditz Arc.

[Noah]

On scales of 1 to 10, how would you put these characters:

Super Vegetto
Super Boo-han
Super Boo-tenks
Ultimate Gohan
SSJ3 Gotenks
Super Boo
Fat Boo
Grey Boo
SSJ3 Goku
SSJ2 Vegeta (after Majin Boost)


I'm mainly asking because, I don't remember much about the manga, but Super Boo is supposed to be already leagues beyond SSJ3 Goku's power, right? So why didn't SSJ2 Goku/Vegeta didn't instant died attempting to fight Boo-han? Isn't the gap just too wide?

[Khin]

I'm mainly asking because, I don't remember much about the manga, but Super Boo is supposed to be already leagues beyond SSJ3 Goku's power, right? So why didn't SSJ2 Goku/Vegeta didn't instant died attempting to fight Boo-han? Isn't the gap just too wide?

SS2 Goku and Vegeta didn't fight Buuhan in the manga. They fused before Buuhan arrived.

[Noah]

SS2 Goku and Vegeta didn't fight Buuhan in the manga. They fused before Buuhan arrived.

Well, that's better! Now show me your scale

[Khin]

Well, that's better! Now show me your scale.

Scaling from 1 to 10 will be messy with a ton of decimals, and its impossible to scale all of them that way. So I'll put my normal numbers with while removing several zeros.

Super Vegetto: 30,000
Buuhan: 650

Buutenks: 530
Ultimate Gohan: 400

SS3 Gotenks: 280
Super Buu: 250

Fat Buu: 20

Grey Buu: 12
Good Buu: 8

SS3 Goku: 34
SS2 Vegeta (after Majin Boost): 8.5

Since I have no numbers so far for Super Buu and everyone stronger than him, I putted my old numbers for them instead, and those could be changed soon.

[dragonball0900]

Goku – 8000

Vegeta - 16000

Goku Kaioken X2 – 16000

Full Power Vegeta - 18000

Goku Kaioken X3 – 24000

Vegeta (Garlick Gun) - 26000

Goku Kaioken X3 (Kamehameha) - 27000

Goku Kaioken X4 (Kamehameha) – 36000

Vegeta (Fake Moon) – 8000

Oozaru Vegeta – 80000

Goku (Spirit Bomb) – 200000

Yajirobe - 910

Vegeta (vs Gohan) – 6000

Enraged Gohan – 2800

Krillin – 1770

Krillin (Spirit Bomb) – 20000

Vegeta (Weakened) – 1500

Oozaru Gohan (weakened) - 3600


The power levels from the Vegeta fight. Throw your opinions on here.

[ZombieVito]

On scales of 1 to 10, how would you put these characters:

I'm mainly asking because, I don't remember much about the manga, but Super Boo is supposed to be already leagues beyond SSJ3 Goku's power, right? So why didn't SSJ2 Goku/Vegeta didn't instant died attempting to fight Boo-han? Isn't the gap just too wide?

I'll use a 1-100 scale instead:

Super Vegetto: 100
Super Boo-han: 64.1375
Super Boo-tenks: 55.4375
Ultimate Gohan: 37.5
SSJ3 Gotenks: 30
Super Boo: 25
Fat Boo: 5
Grey Boo: 3.25
SSJ3 Goku: 8
SSJ2 Vegeta (after Majin Boost): 2

[DanielSSJ]

What do you guys have Saiyan Saga Vegeta at after he turns back into human after having his tail chopped off?

Above Nappa? Below?

I personally say that being smacked in the face with a Genki Dama and creating that power ball diminished his Ki by about half, leaving him at around 9,000 or so, and I don't think losing his tail would be much of a detriment to his power. After taking that Genki Dama, he's probably down to about 3,000, and After getting crushed by Great Ape Gohan, Vegeta drops below to the low hundreds. All of this is very scientific, of course.

The thing is that I put 1200 to Raditz, because a 1307 of power from Gohan managed to weakened him a lot. And Piccolo's Special Beam Canon, which was 1330 (1440 at maximum) killed Raditz, that makes me think that Raditz is more or less around the 1200-1300 place than 1500.

Taking an unexpected full power hit from someone with a 1,300 power would be enough to seriously injure another with a 1,500. Besides the Makankosappo isn't like other Ki attacks. Just like how Kuririn's Kienzan can cut through vastly stronger opponents without necessarily possessing a power equal to or greater than its target, the Makankosappo is specifically designed to drill through things.

Well, that's better! Now show me your scale

I'm basically gonna do what Khin did and just use my numbers, in units of millions:
Son Goku: 90
-- SS: 4,500
-- SS2: 9,000
-- SS3: 36,000

Vegeta: 75
-- SS: 3,750
-- SS2: 7,500
Dormant Power Unleashed: 90
-- SS: 4,500
-- SS2: 9,000

Son Gohan: 64
-- SS: 3,200
-- SS2: 6,400
-- Ultimate Warrior: 180,000

Fat Boo: 15,000
Mr. Boo: 6,000
Pure Evil Boo: 9,000
Evil Boo: 120,000
-- Gotenks absorbed: 240,000
-- Gohan absorbed: 300,000

Vegetto: 18,000
-- SS: 900,000
-- True Power: ∞

[ahill1]

What do you guys have Saiyan Saga Vegeta at after he turns back into human after having his tail chopped off?

Above Nappa? Below?

Enranged Gohan could more or less keep up with him and I don't think Gohan had access to a power much higher than his enranged Masenko's power level, listed as 2,800. So weakened Vegeta would be at most at 4,000 in my book, more or less equal to the level Nappa used to tool the Z warriors, but still weaker than full power Nappa, whom I have at 7,500.

Post Genki-Dama Vegeta was weakened even more, though his power is still enough to defeat Yajirobe, whose 970 power level seems fine to me, so maybe at Raditz' level sounds good.

[dragonball0900]

The thing is that I put 1200 to Raditz, because a 1307 of power from Gohan managed to weakened him a lot. And Piccolo's Special Beam Canon, which was 1330 (1440 at maximum) killed Raditz, that makes me think that Raditz is more or less around the 1200-1300 place than 1500.

Taking an unexpected full power hit from someone with a 1,300 power would be enough to seriously injure another with a 1,500. Besides the Makankosappo isn't like other Ki attacks. Just like how Kuririn's Kienzan can cut through vastly stronger opponents without necessarily possessing a power equal to or greater than its target, the Makankosappo is specifically designed to drill through things.

I don't know if a power of 1300 would be able to injure someone to the point when the fighter gets completely weakened and someone with a third of his power manages to hold him up from behind.

The guides are wrong on that 1500 listing. It should be 1250 at least to be above the Saibamen. I just don't see how Raditz can be at 1500. About the Makankosappo, you can see how big of a difference between their power levels are comparing to Goku's kamehameha which only got to 924, this one got to 1330, that makes the Makankosappo special since it can increase the energy to a much larger gap, drilling things that are weaker than it, Krillin's attack is the only one special that can be used against any strong opponent, like Nappa or Frieza, since that was stated. I don't recall the same happens with the Makankosappo, or that it was ever stated.

Also, if Raditz was 1500, then why did he dodge Piccolo's Makankosappo instead of just do what he did with the kamehameha? Surely if Raditz was 1500, he would do that. Just like Frieza against Kaioken X20 Goku.

[DanielSSJ]

I don't know if a power of 1300 would be able to injure someone to the point when the fighter gets completely weakened and someone with a third of his power manages to hold him up from behind.

The guides are wrong on that 1500 listing. It should be 1250 at least to be above the Saibamen. I just don't see how Raditz can be at 1500. About the Makankosappo, you can see how big of a difference between their power levels are comparing to Goku's kamehameha which only got to 924, this one got to 1330, that makes the Makankosappo special since it can increase the energy to a much larger gap, drilling things that are weaker than it, Krillin's attack is the only one special that can be used against any strong opponent, like Nappa or Frieza, since that was stated. I don't recall the same happens with the Makankosappo, or that it was ever stated.

Also, if Raditz was 1500, then why did he dodge Piccolo's Makankosappo instead of just do what he did with the kamehameha? Surely if Raditz was 1500, he would do that. Just like Frieza against Kaioken X20 Goku.

If a regular old ray gun can critically injure a Super Saiyan Blue via a sneak attack, then a fighter with a 1,300 power level could seriously injure a fighter with a 1,500 power level if the stronger one is too surprised to put up his guard, especially given that there's no hard or fast rule about "power gaps".

In regards to Goku's Kamehameha, Raditz's first response was to dodge the attack, and he only put up his guard to block it when it continued to follow him. As for the Makankosappo, there's nothing that states that it's only effective against people weaker than the technique. And you can't compare the effect of a Kamehameha, which relies on regular old brute force, and the Makankosappo, which is specifically designed to impale the target. I think it makes perfect sense that, given the nature of the attack, that it would be able to severely damage an opponent with a higher power level.

[dragonball0900]

I don't know if a power of 1300 would be able to injure someone to the point when the fighter gets completely weakened and someone with a third of his power manages to hold him up from behind.

The guides are wrong on that 1500 listing. It should be 1250 at least to be above the Saibamen. I just don't see how Raditz can be at 1500. About the Makankosappo, you can see how big of a difference between their power levels are comparing to Goku's kamehameha which only got to 924, this one got to 1330, that makes the Makankosappo special since it can increase the energy to a much larger gap, drilling things that are weaker than it, Krillin's attack is the only one special that can be used against any strong opponent, like Nappa or Frieza, since that was stated. I don't recall the same happens with the Makankosappo, or that it was ever stated.

Also, if Raditz was 1500, then why did he dodge Piccolo's Makankosappo instead of just do what he did with the kamehameha? Surely if Raditz was 1500, he would do that. Just like Frieza against Kaioken X20 Goku.

If a regular old ray gun can critically injure a Super Saiyan Blue via a sneak attack, then a fighter with a 1,300 power level could seriously injure a fighter with a 1,500 power level if the stronger one is too surprised to put up his guard, especially given that there's no hard or fast rule about "power gaps".

In regards to Goku's Kamehameha, Raditz's first response was to dodge the attack, and he only put up his guard to block it when it continued to follow him. As for the Makankosappo, there's nothing that states that it's only effective against people weaker than the technique. And you can't compare the effect of a Kamehameha, which relies on regular old brute force, and the Makankosappo, which is specifically designed to impale the target. I think it makes perfect sense that, given the nature of the attack, that it would be able to severely damage an opponent with a higher power level.

Well, maybe you're right on the Makankosasppo, but still, why would Raditz dodge the attack if he was 1500, the attack was 1330 AND he was unaware of how dangerous the attack was? He could've done like what he did with the kamehameha, instead of dodging it. Like Nappa, he only dodge the kienzan because Vegeta told him to.

Yeah a 1300 atack can injure someone with 1500, but not to the point that it can be risking the life. I don't know if comparing Super, which has a lot of inconsistencies with the power scalling, to Z, which is more consistent on that, would be fair.

[DanielSSJ]

Well, maybe you're right on the Makankosasppo, but still, why would Raditz dodge the attack if he was 1500, the attack was 1330 AND he was unaware of how dangerous the attack was? He could've done like what he did with the kamehameha, instead of dodging it. Like Nappa, he only dodge the kienzan because Vegeta told him to.

Yeah a 1300 atack can injure someone with 1500, but not to the point that it can be risking the life. I don't know if comparing Super, which has a lot of inconsistencies with the power scalling, to Z, which is more consistent on that, would be fair.

It is worth noting that when Raditz brought up the 1,330 number, he also mentioned that all that power as concentrated into Piccolo's fingertips, so maybe he realized there was something off about the technique.