Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

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Bullza
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:21 pm

So I've finally gotten around to watching GT (again) so I'm going to attempt to make a Power Level list for that having done one for Dragon Ball and Z a couple years ago.

My first question is how strong is Base Goku GT supposed to be? He's apparently stronger than Buu right? Most likely Kid Buu. Anything more specific?

Second question is with Ledgic would you say he's closer to Base Goku in strength or Super Saiyan Goku?

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:23 pm

Bullza wrote:So I've finally gotten around to watching GT (again) so I'm going to attempt to make a Power Level list for that having done one for Dragon Ball and Z a couple years ago.

My first question is how strong is Base Goku GT supposed to be? He's apparently stronger than Buu right? Most likely Kid Buu. Anything more specific?

Second question is with Ledgic would you say he's closer to Base Goku in strength or Super Saiyan Goku?
I would say adult base Goku is on par with Kid Buu(or above), kid base Goku not, I would imagine he is Mr. Buu tier, above actually. I base this on the day he met Rildo, he warns Trunks about his power comparing him to Buu (the only Buu Trunks knows are the fat one, Super Buu and the good one, now he doesn't specifiy but doesn't refer to Buu as MAJIN, so I conclude he was talking about the good Buu, the one that they've been around for 10 years and probably got to the finals in the TB from EoZ. Goku overpowers Rildo and forces him to become the planet and SS comes in. Later on, Majuub (probably Super Buu level or higher) one-shots that same Rildo like is no thang. Although Base Goku's PL is a mess, I don't think he'd need to be Kid Buu level to deal with his non-training children as SS. The following arcs do have a stronger base Goku.

I am against taking GT power levels to a great extend because they made the main character lose power by becoming a kid again and the rest of the cast got a life, training and fighting wasn't a part of their lives anymore. I disregard GT Perfect Lies for contradicting the show itself.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:12 am

Bullza wrote:My first question is how strong is Base Goku GT supposed to be? He's apparently stronger than Buu right? Most likely Kid Buu. Anything more specific?

Second question is with Ledgic would you say he's closer to Base Goku in strength or Super Saiyan Goku?
When Goku says Majin Boo, I think he is most likely referring to the evil Boo that he defeated, while when he is referring to the Fat Boo, he calls him just Boo, right?

Ledgic's strength is likely below Majin Boo or any other enemy that Goku fought after him. I would say Goku was still acclimating to his original strength in first portion of Dragon Ball GT, so I would say Ledgic is closer to Base Goku.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:19 am

Not watching the subs, that's something I have no idea about. If he always referred to Kid Buu as Making Buu and the Good Buu as Buu in the Japanese version then I suppose that would be something.

Goku does fight and beat Frieza and Cell without transforming. Didn't they say they'd gotten stronger?

Are there any other direct comparisons?

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:32 am

Base Goku being stronger than Mr. Buu makes sense with how the fight in hell turned out. Actually he is stronger by that arc, maybe Fat Majin Buu tier which is pretty close to Kid Buu

Yes, I believe they said Goku wasn't the only one who's gotten stronger but I never took those two as a serious threat, and neither did Goku, he makes a comment about how the ki is actually used, he wasn't impressed so I guess their power up wasn't a big deal, maybe Imperfect Cell with lips tier for Freeza and Majin Vegeta for Cell? back then when there was no Golden Freeza it wouldn't have been an outrageous guess, also maybe they just focused more on combined techniques like the one they used to freeze Goku. Supressed Fat Boo actually ate Dabura who was Cell tier, Goku wouldn't need to be that high on the Buu tier list to perfom as he did.

If he were stronger than Kid Buu, then Rildo would've never gone down as he did at Majuub's hands, I guess only Gohan Buu could have taken a SS3 tier that easily (Gotenks Buu couldn't although it was filler), and I have Majuub being Kid Buu + Mr. Buu which would make him Super Buu, but he has been training for years, mainly to get to Kid Buu level but probably he already surpassed that, so above Super Buu for sure, Ultra Buu tier maybe? but still the Gotenks and Gohan boost isn't there. I don't think that the buffed Buu could one-shot Kid Buu, honestly, but wouldn't surprise me if he did it to a weaker fat version.

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How big do you think the gap between Goku/Vegeta and GoDs is?

Post by BlueVegerot » Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:25 pm

Obviously this is just pure speculation but take a guess at how far off you think SSBE Vegeta and SSBkkx20 goku at the end of the Universe Survival Arc are from the level of Active/Actual GoDs?

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Chickenchaser » Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:48 pm

Bullza wrote:So I've finally gotten around to watching GT (again) so I'm going to attempt to make a Power Level list for that having done one for Dragon Ball and Z a couple years ago.

My first question is how strong is Base Goku GT supposed to be? He's apparently stronger than Buu right? Most likely Kid Buu. Anything more specific?

Second question is with Ledgic would you say he's closer to Base Goku in strength or Super Saiyan Goku?
[spoiler]
1.My first question is how strong is Base Goku GT supposed to be? He's apparently stronger than Buu right? Most likely Kid Buu. Anything more specific?

Base Goku in GT has power which is more than SSJ Gohan who's training all the time, that was said by GT perfect files.

Also Goku states General Rildo is "Stronger than buu" this is probably said about Super Buuhan who was the strongest form of him.

Image
[/spoiler]
[spoiler]Second question is with Ledgic would you say he's closer to Base Goku in strength or Super Saiyan Goku?

I think Ledgic is close to Base Kid Goku because Goku use Super Saiyan (with not full power/ or even 10% of SSJ Multiplier) to beat him. I think difference in power is 4% - 20%, when Zarbon (23k) and Vegeta (24k) has 4% difference of power.[/spoiler]

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:17 pm

Chickenchaser wrote: Also Goku states General Rildo is "Stronger than buu" this is probably said about Super Buuhan who was the strongest form of him.
Isn't GT a continuation of the Anime though? Anime has Pure Boo as the strongest Boo.
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Re: How big do you think the gap between Goku/Vegeta and GoDs is?

Post by theherodjl » Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:07 pm

No UI? Well, I suppose SSJBE Vegeta & Kaio-ken x20 SSJB Goku are still some way off from surpassing the Hakaishin; not even being stronger than Sidra yet, let alone Beerus. Vegeta was narrowly above Toppo's Hakaishin power-up, and nearly died using a technique strong enough to knock out Toppo. I don't think Toppo was particularly powerful among the ranks of the existing Hakaishin since his status was rushed, purely for the sake of needing more power immediately, so Toppo is quite likely not at his full potential. I'm sure that if they're given another arc or two to go through, that Goku & Vegeta can reach Sidra's level. Maybe even begin to tail Beerus finally.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Analytic » Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:21 pm

Bullza wrote:My first question is how strong is Base Goku GT supposed to be? He's apparently stronger than Buu right? Most likely Kid Buu. Anything more specific?


Second question is with Ledgic would you say he's closer to Base Goku in strength or Super Saiyan Goku?
It depends on which point in GT you're talking about. Goku is constantly increasing his strength throughout the show, and even surpasses his beginning of GT Super Saiyan power in his base form by the time he fights Rild.

Closer to his base form for sure.. He was barely advantaged against Base Goku and got manhandled by Super Saiyan Goku. Are you watching the English dub? Because I know Redjic mentions holding back in the English dub, which he never does in the original Japanese version.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:48 pm

I've favourited the above page to look at when I reach that point in the show. For now though it seems a bit farfetched to say Base Goku surpassed his previous Super Saiyan Goku strength. I don't recall any power up of any kind but I'll see when I get to it.

I suppose Mutchy would be stronger than Ledgic?

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by PFM18 » Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:37 pm

SonofThePrince wrote:I'm not sure what you mean by SEG, but it is rather impossible for base Goku to still be below Freeza. I know most of his strength comes from his transformations, but that BoG line was pretty much the ultimate plotholes of plotholes. And to be fair, this guide was made a long time ago, you can't really get mad at it if it starts clashing with the newer material.
It isn't a plothole at all. If anything, it gives people a nice guideline to go by instead of guessing how large these gaps must be. The only thing that even kind of contradicts this is Vegeta commenting he can win the tournament without using SSJ during the Buu Arc despite Piccolo and 18 being there. This can easily be dismissed by Vegeta's cockiness. Power levels can still work and fit within the statements and feats while keeping Buu Arc Goku at around 100M or even less. For that matter, that's how my numbers came out without even adjusting for it.

Either way, the statement during BoG is about a million times more reputable than "El Legendario" or whatever.

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Re: How big do you think the gap between Goku/Vegeta and GoDs is?

Post by PFM18 » Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:03 pm

As far as my estimations of the numbers go things look like this:

SSBE Vegeta: 1
Beerus:1.4
UI Goku(post rage boost): 2.4
SSBKKx20 Goku:0.67

I see Vegeta's SSBE after he unlocked more power against Toppo to be 30x over SSB and UI Goku after his rage boost that he used to beat Awakened Jiren is far above Beerus.

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Re: How big do you think the gap between Goku/Vegeta and GoDs is?

Post by Hugo Boss » Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:13 pm

I think that counting SSBKaioken and SSBE, Goku and Vegeta might be on that realm, since Vegeta could beat one God of Destruction and Goku is comparable to Vegeta. A veteran God of Destruction might seem a bit of a stretch, since it’s implied Beerus at least can use Hakai more efficiently than Toppo and can use Ultra Instinct.

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Re: How big do you think the gap between Goku/Vegeta and GoDs is?

Post by supersaiyangodgogeta » Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:19 pm

Sidra: 9,800,000,000,000,000,000,000

Helles: 9,850,000,000,000,000,000,000

Iwne: 9,870,000,000,000,000,000,000

Arack: 9,870,000,000,000,000,000,000

Liquiir: 9,870,000,000,000,000,000,000

Geene: 9,880,000,000,000,000,000,000

Mosco: 9,900,000,000,000,000,000,000

Rumsshi: 9,900,000,000,000,000,000,000

Champa: 9,950,000,000,000,000,000,000

Beerus: 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

Quitela: 10,100,000,000,000,000,000,000

Belmod: 10,200,000,000,000,000,000,000

Base Goku: 1,170,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Blue Goku: 8,775,000,000,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Blue Kaiokenx20 Goku: 175,500,000,000,000,000,000,000

Base Vegeta: 1,170,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta: 8,775,000,000,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Blue Evolution Vegeta: 9,775,350,000,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Blue Evolution Vegeta(Beyond Limits): 175,500,000,000,000,000,000,000
Final Explosion: 11,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

Toppo(God of Destruction Mode): 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Full Power Energy of Destruction: 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

Goku and Vegeta rival the Gods in Blue as stated before the tournament. Vegeta in SSBE can edge out a God of Destruction with Final Explosion. Goku hasn't shown anything equivalent to the Final Explosion in power, so he can't overcome a God of Destruction without Ultra Instinct. No reason to list the higher powers like UI. They're higher than Vegeta and the Gods.

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Re: How big do you think the gap between Goku/Vegeta and GoDs is?

Post by Koitsukai » Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:37 pm

supersaiyangodgogeta wrote:Sidra: 9,800,000,000,000,000,000,000

Helles: 9,850,000,000,000,000,000,000

Iwne: 9,870,000,000,000,000,000,000

Arack: 9,870,000,000,000,000,000,000

Liquiir: 9,870,000,000,000,000,000,000

Geene: 9,880,000,000,000,000,000,000

Mosco: 9,900,000,000,000,000,000,000

Rumsshi: 9,900,000,000,000,000,000,000

Champa: 9,950,000,000,000,000,000,000

Beerus: 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

Quitela: 10,100,000,000,000,000,000,000

Belmod: 10,200,000,000,000,000,000,000

Base Goku: 1,170,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Blue Goku: 8,775,000,000,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Blue Kaiokenx20 Goku: 175,500,000,000,000,000,000,000

Base Vegeta: 1,170,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta: 8,775,000,000,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Blue Evolution Vegeta: 9,775,350,000,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Blue Evolution Vegeta(Beyond Limits): 175,500,000,000,000,000,000,000
Final Explosion: 11,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

Toppo(God of Destruction Mode): 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Full Power Energy of Destruction: 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

Goku and Vegeta rival the Gods in Blue as stated before the tournament. Vegeta in SSBE can edge out a God of Destruction with Final Explosion. Goku hasn't shown anything equivalent to the Final Explosion in power, so he can't overcome a God of Destruction without Ultra Instinct. No reason to list the higher powers like UI. They're higher than Vegeta and the Gods.
How about losing like 10 or 15 zeros? there is really no need to start with such big numbers, don't take it the wrong way, I'm saying this in the kindest way possible and with the best intention, i'm not hating or anything, I aprecciate the effort, but it would be easier for the reader IMO.

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Re: How big do you think the gap between Goku/Vegeta and GoDs is?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:39 pm

I think that without UI, Goku is weaker than all of them except Toppo and maybe Sidra. Same for Vegeta.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Chickenchaser » Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:01 am

GreatSaiyaman123 wrote:
Chickenchaser wrote: Also Goku states General Rildo is "Stronger than buu" this is probably said about Super Buuhan who was the strongest form of him.
Isn't GT a continuation of the Anime though? Anime has Pure Boo as the strongest Boo.
Oh, i didn't notice that.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Bullza » Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:39 am

So if Goku says that Rilldo is stronger than Buu....does that mean Ledgic, Mutchy, Luud and the Sigma Cannon are not?

Or are they all stronger as well but it was only mentioned for Rilldo?

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:08 am

Bullza wrote:So if Goku says that Rilldo is stronger than Buu....does that mean Ledgic, Mutchy, Luud and the Sigma Cannon are not?

Or are they all stronger as well but it was only mentioned for Rilldo?
Barring Rilld, I think they are all below Boo. I checked the line in question and Goku says he didn’t think to encounter someone with energy as large as Rilld, which suggests he is stronger than everyone he met previously. At the same time, Boo possibly had the greatest energy he could remember.

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