Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

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Hugo Boss
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Tue Feb 25, 2020 6:43 pm

Dbzk1999 wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 2:33 pm
Hugo Boss wrote:
Sun Feb 23, 2020 9:01 pm
I would say Freeza’s 1st form is slightly stronger than Vegeta when they fought, but Krillin and Gohan would compensate that difference to give Vegeta an advantage.

For some reason, I have the impression Goku was considerably stronger than Vegeta even after both got a near death power-up, when they fought Freeza’s final form.

Also, I think Vegeta was the strongest fighter against #17 and #18. Maybe Goku was equal to him, but Piccolo implied Vegeta could be stronger than Goku and by proxy stronger than everyone besides the cyborgs.
Is it implied or stated in regards to Vegeta being stronger? I wanna say Herms’ strength checker flat out says that Vegeta surpassed Goku, I’d have to look back over it though
His words..

Chapter: 348 (DBZ 154), P5.5
Context: after Vegeta leaves to fight No.17 and No.18
Piccolo: “…But…It seems that Vegeta really has obtained power surpassing Goku now that he’s become a Super Saiyan…He just might be able to take care of them like he says…”

See Piccolo is not really making a direct statement. Vegeta obviously couldn’t take care of #18. God also doesn’t direct say that Vegeta is stronger than Goku, despite directly comparing Vegeta with Future Trunks. Possibly, Goku and Vegeta could be equals in this particular context.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Mon Mar 16, 2020 3:29 pm

So, how strong Kibito-Shin actually was? he claimed to be much stronger than Shin was but Elder Kaioshin said he still was no match for the current threat (Super Buu-ish)

Shin on his own was strong enough to one-shot Freeza and to survive Kid Boo/Fat Boo but in the DBS manga he died against Dabura, so I guess he would be somewhere around Cell Games SS? Then he fuses with Kibito who is way weaker, so if he was SS level, would the fusion make him SS2 level?
Nevermind who'd win, Majin Vegeta vs KibitoShin would've been an even fight?

I guess I'm wondering would've Kibito-Shin been more useful than SS2 Vegeta vs Kid Buu? or just as useful?

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Mad Swami » Mon Mar 16, 2020 3:51 pm

Koitsukai wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 3:29 pm
So, how strong Kibito-Shin actually was? he claimed to be much stronger than Shin was but Elder Kaioshin said he still was no match for the current threat (Super Buu-ish)

Shin on his own was strong enough to one-shot Freeza and to survive Kid Boo/Fat Boo but in the DBS manga he died against Dabura, so I guess he would be somewhere around Cell Games SS? Then he fuses with Kibito who is way weaker, so if he was SS level, would the fusion make him SS2 level?
Nevermind who'd win, Majin Vegeta vs KibitoShin would've been an even fight?

I guess I'm wondering would've Kibito-Shin been more useful than SS2 Vegeta vs Kid Buu? or just as useful?
I often rank him at low SSJ2 level. I think Shin goes from high SSJ1 to low SSJ2 with the fusion. That's just me. So in short weaker than Majin Vegeta but still plenty strong. He would probably be weaker than Super Cell because Majin Vegeta is a tad stronger than that

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Hugo Boss » Mon Mar 16, 2020 5:14 pm

I have Merged Shin about as strong as Dabra, considering how both Shin and Kibito are conveniently weaker than him, and his uselfulness against Majin Boo is questionable.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Mad Swami » Tue Mar 17, 2020 1:04 am

Hugo Boss wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 5:14 pm
I have Merged Shin about as strong as Dabra, considering how both Shin and Kibito are conveniently weaker than him, and his uselfulness against Majin Boo is questionable.
I think that's fair

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Limitless123 » Wed Mar 18, 2020 4:56 pm

So, here's how I think the characters compare to each other post Freeza. What do you guys think? I've put some explanations in it since I don't think numbers alone call tell the full story.


Might to a Super one later, not sure.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Mad Swami » Wed Mar 18, 2020 5:48 pm

Limitless123 wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 4:56 pm
So, here's how I think the characters compare to each other post Freeza. What do you guys think? I've put some explanations in it since I don't think numbers alone call tell the full story.


Might to a Super one later, not sure.

I personally think they get a bit too high near the end but they are pretty good I would say. I put Goku buu saga at 45M and Gohan Cell saga like 38M. I think when he goes SSJ2 however he unlocks more power pushing Gohan from like 3.8B to around 4.2B. Again just my calculations

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:11 pm

Limitless123 wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 4:56 pm
So, here's how I think the characters compare to each other post Freeza. What do you guys think? I've put some explanations in it since I don't think numbers alone call tell the full story.


Might to a Super one later, not sure.


I like most of this numbers except two of them.

-I disagree about Goten and Trunks, if they were that strong (high Cell Games tier), then vs 18, even with the difficulties of the MM suit, they should've taken her out without much effort. On their own they would be over 10x stronger than her, that kind of gap can't be closed just by an uncomfortable suit. I don't think they are stronger than SS Vegeta.

-I think Piccolo by the Cell Games should be closer to 2nd form Cell, considering he wasn't being crushed by the Cell Jrs although being outclassed, and that he trained his ass off. He could hardly help with such a low BP.

Also, I'm curious about why you think Gogeta would be weaker than Buuhan. I agree the rival boost gives the edge to Vegito, but the latter was still way above Buuhan, so without the rival boost Gogeta should still have the edge.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Limitless123 » Thu Mar 19, 2020 12:19 pm

Mad Swami wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 5:48 pm
I personally think they get a bit too high near the end but they are pretty good I would say. I put Goku buu saga at 45M and Gohan Cell saga like 38M. I think when he goes SSJ2 however he unlocks more power pushing Gohan from like 3.8B to around 4.2B. Again just my calculations
Funny, because I tried to be very minimalistic here. You can see that in the Gotenks part even where I just make him 5x stronger with SSJ3.

As for the Base forms, I think they kinda just max out. You’ll often find statements in the series about characters reaching their limits, and that their new form is what allowed them to go further. So I think all Base Saiyans are still stuck in the 3 million base, with only their SSJ power constantly increasing until they reach a peak with their Full Power SSJ2 or SSJ3 power.
Koitsukai wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:11 pm
I like most of this numbers except two of them.

-I disagree about Goten and Trunks, if they were that strong (high Cell Games tier), then vs 18, even with the difficulties of the MM suit, they should've taken her out without much effort. On their own they would be over 10x stronger than her, that kind of gap can't be closed just by an uncomfortable suit. I don't think they are stronger than SS Vegeta.

-I think Piccolo by the Cell Games should be closer to 2nd form Cell, considering he wasn't being crushed by the Cell Jrs although being outclassed, and that he trained his ass off. He could hardly help with such a low BP.

Also, I'm curious about why you think Gogeta would be weaker than Buuhan. I agree the rival boost gives the edge to Vegito, but the latter was still way above Buuhan, so without the rival boost Gogeta should still have the edge.
The suit will always be limiting them no matter the power advantage, because abrupt movements would simply torn the suit apart. They had enough power to beat 18 as shown with their suppressed blast scaring her, but could barely move in it.

Well, very early on Vegeta told Nappa that hybrids are naturally stronger than the pure Saiyans. While it’s arguable Goten and Trunks were in different stages of the SSJ power than Vegeta thanks to lesser experience, Goten is shown to be a solid sparring partner for Gohan and his Daizenshuu 2 bio states they’re equals. Vegeta is still stronger thanks to having SSJ2 in his pocket and being a better fighter overall.

The Cell Jrs weren’t taking most Z Fighters seriously and stated by Cell and shown by the humans taking quite a beating as well, so I don’t think that means much. Sure he trained, but in a time when transformations were the bulk of their gains I don’t see Piccolo improving much. Maybe I could raise him past #16?

Gohan-Boo said Goku and Vegeta shouldn’t be a problem even if they merged and Goku said Potara was the only way to beat Majin Boo, so it seems like at least rival boost-less Gogeta should be below Majin Boo. He may be stronger thanks to rival boost, but he ought to still be below Vegetto.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Mad Swami » Thu Mar 19, 2020 2:22 pm

Limitless123 wrote:
Thu Mar 19, 2020 12:19 pm
Mad Swami wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 5:48 pm
I personally think they get a bit too high near the end but they are pretty good I would say. I put Goku buu saga at 45M and Gohan Cell saga like 38M. I think when he goes SSJ2 however he unlocks more power pushing Gohan from like 3.8B to around 4.2B. Again just my calculations
Funny, because I tried to be very minimalistic here. You can see that in the Gotenks part even where I just make him 5x stronger with SSJ3.

As for the Base forms, I think they kinda just max out. You’ll often find statements in the series about characters reaching their limits, and that their new form is what allowed them to go further. So I think all Base Saiyans are still stuck in the 3 million base, with only their SSJ power constantly increasing until they reach a peak with their Full Power SSJ2 or SSJ3 power.
Hmm that's interesting. I do like the power differences for the most part but the actual numbers I find rather large. For me personally I put Super Perfect Cell at like 3.9B and SSJ2 Gohan at max like 4.2B. I think overall your numbers are rather good and I kind of agree with the small base theory as Super all but confirms it with statements from Whis about them having small base power (in the grand scheme of things). However in the Buu saga Goku fights Yakon in base, Yakon is said to have an official power of 40B. So I always put Buu saga Goku at 45M. Again though thats my thoughts

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Mireya » Sat Mar 21, 2020 3:32 am

Fight againt Mecha Freeza

King Cold: 90,000,000
Mecha Freeza: 140,00,000
Trunks SSJ: 160,000,000
Goku SSJ: 180,000,000

Those are my current numbers from the time of Trunks killing Freeza. Do you agree?

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Mad Swami » Sat Mar 21, 2020 3:39 am

Mireya wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 3:32 am
Fight againt Mecha Freeza

King Cold: 90,000,000
Mecha Freeza: 140,00,000
Trunks SSJ: 160,000,000
Goku SSJ: 180,000,000

Those are my current numbers from the time of Trunks killing Freeza. Do you agree?
All great except, why is King Cold so much weaker than Frieza? They were compared and said to be roughly the same

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Mireya » Sat Mar 21, 2020 4:43 am

Mad Swami wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 3:39 am
Mireya wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 3:32 am
Fight againt Mecha Freeza

King Cold: 90,000,000
Mecha Freeza: 140,00,000
Trunks SSJ: 160,000,000
Goku SSJ: 180,000,000

Those are my current numbers from the time of Trunks killing Freeza. Do you agree?
All great except, why is King Cold so much weaker than Frieza? They were compared and said to be roughly the same
I think those comparisons took place when Freeza was heavily suppressed.

But still, I think I could boost him up to 100,000,000 considering it's said in the Daizenshuu that he's "somewhat" weaker than Freeza. Btw as a side note, do we even know which Freeza (organic or mechanical) the Daiz is referring to?

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Mad Swami » Sat Mar 21, 2020 4:46 am

Mireya wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 4:43 am
Mad Swami wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 3:39 am
Mireya wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 3:32 am
Fight againt Mecha Freeza

King Cold: 90,000,000
Mecha Freeza: 140,00,000
Trunks SSJ: 160,000,000
Goku SSJ: 180,000,000

Those are my current numbers from the time of Trunks killing Freeza. Do you agree?
All great except, why is King Cold so much weaker than Frieza? They were compared and said to be roughly the same
I think those comparisons took place when Freeza was heavily suppressed.

But still, I think I could boost him up to 100,000,000 considering it's said in the Daizenshuu that he's "somewhat" weaker than Freeza. Btw as a side note, do we even know which Freeza (organic or mechanical) the Daiz is referring to?
I think it's Mecha because its a current comparison made by the team. Like as they both touch down they are comparable in strength. At least I think that's what it refers to

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Mireya » Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:37 am

Mad Swami wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 4:46 am
Mireya wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 4:43 am
Mad Swami wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 3:39 am


All great except, why is King Cold so much weaker than Frieza? They were compared and said to be roughly the same
I think those comparisons took place when Freeza was heavily suppressed.

But still, I think I could boost him up to 100,000,000 considering it's said in the Daizenshuu that he's "somewhat" weaker than Freeza. Btw as a side note, do we even know which Freeza (organic or mechanical) the Daiz is referring to?
I think it's Mecha because its a current comparison made by the team. Like as they both touch down they are comparable in strength. At least I think that's what it refers to
The comparisons made by the warriors are concerning Mecha and Cold's current strengths, of course. Still, they weren't exactly comparisons. They just grouped them together as behemoths, bearers of amazing ki, although I grant that the lack of indication of who's stronger by any may be a good indicator that Cold and suppressed Mecha Freeza were comparable to each other.

Still, it's suppressed Mecha Freeza in the equation. Gohan noticed that the ki they are sensing from Freeza can get way bigger.

We don't have any indication as for Cold being suppressed, but still due to him being indicated as only "somewhat" weaker than Freeza (which I assume to be organic Freeza) coupled with him being considered as a game changer in the battle against SSJ Goku (150M as expected by Freeza), I think it isn't a stretch to think he was pulling his strength a little as well. So yeah, I think 100,000,000 may work fine.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Mad Swami » Sat Mar 21, 2020 2:12 pm

Mireya wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 11:37 am
Mad Swami wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 4:46 am
Mireya wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 4:43 am

I think those comparisons took place when Freeza was heavily suppressed.

But still, I think I could boost him up to 100,000,000 considering it's said in the Daizenshuu that he's "somewhat" weaker than Freeza. Btw as a side note, do we even know which Freeza (organic or mechanical) the Daiz is referring to?
I think it's Mecha because its a current comparison made by the team. Like as they both touch down they are comparable in strength. At least I think that's what it refers to
The comparisons made by the warriors are concerning Mecha and Cold's current strengths, of course. Still, they weren't exactly comparisons. They just grouped them together as behemoths, bearers of amazing ki, although I grant that the lack of indication of who's stronger by any may be a good indicator that Cold and suppressed Mecha Freeza were comparable to each other.

Still, it's suppressed Mecha Freeza in the equation. Gohan noticed that the ki they are sensing from Freeza can get way bigger.

We don't have any indication as for Cold being suppressed, but still due to him being indicated as only "somewhat" weaker than Freeza (which I assume to be organic Freeza) coupled with him being considered as a game changer in the battle against SSJ Goku (150M as expected by Freeza), I think it isn't a stretch to think he was pulling his strength a little as well. So yeah, I think 100,000,000 may work fine.
I personally think that may be a low ball but I see your point

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by apex_pretador » Sat Mar 21, 2020 2:29 pm

Given the canon BoZ numbers of:
- Goku (FP) 924
- Farmer 5
- Tenshinhan 250
- Krillin 206
- Yamcha 177

how would you place the following characters?
  • Nam
  • King Chappa (both appearances, separately)
  • Pamput
  • Tao Pai Pai (human)
  • Grandpa Gohan, Mummy and Akkuman
  • Yajirobe (first appearance)
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Sat Mar 21, 2020 3:55 pm

Mireya wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 3:32 am
Fight againt Mecha Freeza

King Cold: 90,000,000
Mecha Freeza: 140,00,000
Trunks SSJ: 160,000,000
Goku SSJ: 180,000,000

Those are my current numbers from the time of Trunks killing Freeza. Do you agree?
I agree but like Mad Swami said, I'd put Cold closer to Freeza.
apex_pretador wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 2:29 pm
Given the canon BoZ numbers of:
- Goku (FP) 924
- Farmer 5
- Tenshinhan 250
- Krillin 206
- Yamcha 177

how would you place the following characters?
  • Nam
  • King Chappa (both appearances, separately)
  • Pamput
  • Tao Pai Pai (human)
  • Grandpa Gohan, Mummy and Akkuman
  • Yajirobe (first appearance)
Wasn't there a power level list for DB? I always thought it to be official, maybe it's not but I think it works

- Nam 70
- Chappa 91 /108
- Pamput 62
- Tao Pai Pai 120
- Gohan 123
- Mummy 75
- Akuman 106
- Yajirobe 87

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by apex_pretador » Sat Mar 21, 2020 4:23 pm

Koitsukai wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 3:55 pm

apex_pretador wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 2:29 pm
Given the canon BoZ numbers of:
- Goku (FP) 924
- Farmer 5
- Tenshinhan 250
- Krillin 206
- Yamcha 177

how would you place the following characters?
  • Nam
  • King Chappa (both appearances, separately)
  • Pamput
  • Tao Pai Pai (human)
  • Grandpa Gohan, Mummy and Akkuman
  • Yajirobe (first appearance)
Wasn't there a power level list for DB? I always thought it to be official, maybe it's not but I think it works

- Nam 70
- Chappa 91 /108
- Pamput 62
- Tao Pai Pai 120
- Gohan 123
- Mummy 75
- Akuman 106
- Yajirobe 87
iirc the only "official" number in DB is Goku's 10 - which is still a bit sketchy for me but it's kinda ok. No way are these official.

Anyways, the order is interesting, except Yajirobe, which is clearly way off.
Yajirobe shouldn't be below any of them, let alone almost all of them. Tao wasn't even a threat to Goku 3 years back, while Yajirobe matched post 22nd TB Goku, who said he hasn't fought anyone as tough as him (after fighting tien. let alone tao). He easily took care of chappa while heavily holding back, while didn't do anything to Yajirobe, who also seemed as fast as Goku.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Koitsukai » Sat Mar 21, 2020 4:53 pm

apex_pretador wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 4:23 pm
Koitsukai wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 3:55 pm

apex_pretador wrote:
Sat Mar 21, 2020 2:29 pm
Given the canon BoZ numbers of:
- Goku (FP) 924
- Farmer 5
- Tenshinhan 250
- Krillin 206
- Yamcha 177

how would you place the following characters?
  • Nam
  • King Chappa (both appearances, separately)
  • Pamput
  • Tao Pai Pai (human)
  • Grandpa Gohan, Mummy and Akkuman
  • Yajirobe (first appearance)
Wasn't there a power level list for DB? I always thought it to be official, maybe it's not but I think it works

- Nam 70
- Chappa 91 /108
- Pamput 62
- Tao Pai Pai 120
- Gohan 123
- Mummy 75
- Akuman 106
- Yajirobe 87
iirc the only "official" number in DB is Goku's 10 - which is still a bit sketchy for me but it's kinda ok. No way are these official.

Anyways, the order is interesting, except Yajirobe, which is clearly way off.
Yajirobe shouldn't be below any of them, let alone almost all of them. Tao wasn't even a threat to Goku 3 years back, while Yajirobe matched post 22nd TB Goku, who said he hasn't fought anyone as tough as him (after fighting tien. let alone tao). He easily took care of chappa while heavily holding back, while didn't do anything to Yajirobe, who also seemed as fast as Goku.
So, how does 150 sound for Yajirobe? I'm afraid closing in on the 200s would be already talking about Piccolo Daimaoh's realm.

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