Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[RandomGuy96]

I'll just go with that then.

Have another question, even though I haven't actually gotten this far yet... how strong do you guys have the Southern Supreme Kai? A lot of people use the Z-Sword scene to say that he's an absolute weakling, but the massive boost he gave Kid Buu after being eaten and the Eastern Supreme Kai not only going out of his way to point that he's strong, but saying that he "somehow" got absorbed (he's surprised that it could even happen) suggests to me that he's pretty powerful, at least comparable to SS3 Goku. There's also that anime-only sequence where he fights evenly against Kid Buu. I am one of those "if it doesn't contradict the source material, then it's fine" kind of guys, but I don't know if that sequence actually does. It seems to me it doesn't.

I never really got the impression that Buu's absorbptions were anything other than additive, so to me the Southern Supreme Kai would have to be pretty strong, as he's the difference between Kid Buu and Buff Buu.

[Saiga]

To me, "somehow" doesn't imply anything beyond that Kaioshin just doesn't understand how Boo is capable of absorbing people as he does, even after he's witnessed it for himself. It's an unusual power that never gets explained, it's just something that Boo can "somehow" do.

[ZombieVito]

Well here is my PL list (my personal canon), feedback is welcome.

In The Beginning

Bardock
~ Initial: 8,000
~ Ozaru (*10): 80,000
~ After Zenkai And Back To Normal: 9,800
~ Weakened By Dodoria: 2,000
~ Fainaru Supirittsu Kyanon (*1.5): 3,000

Toma
~ Initial: 4,500
~ Ozaru (*10): 45,000
~ Weakened By Dodoria's Elite And Back To Normal: 500

Totepo
~ Initial: 4,200
~ Ozaru (*10): 42,000
~ Weakened By Dodoria's Elite And Back To Normal: 1,000

Panpūkin
~ Initial: 4,000
~ Ozaru (*10): 40,000

Seripa
~ Initial: 3,800
~ Ozaru (*10): 38,000

Kanassan Warriors: 9,000 - 12,000

Toro
~ Initial: 12,000
~ Weakened: 3,000

Meatians: 2,000 - 2,500

Dodoria's Elite: 6,000 - 6,500

Dodoria: 20,000

Zarbon: 22,000

Freeza
~ 3rd Suppression: 350,000

Freeza’s Soldiers: 800 - 1,000

King Vegeta: 12,000

Kid Vegeta: 13,000

Nappa: 5,000

Saibamen: 1,200

Saiyans At Bar: 1,000 - 2,000

Baby Son Goku: 2

Son Gohan: 100

Raditz Arrival

Farmer: 5

Son Goku
~ With Weights: 334
~ Without Weights: 416
~ Kamehameha (*2.22): 924
~ Weakened By Raditz: 300

Piccolo
~ With Weights: 322
~ Without Weights: 408
~ Weakened By Raditz: 380
~ Makankōsappō (*3.5): 1,330
~ After Makankōsappō: 200
~ Second Makankōsappō (*3.5): 700
~ After Second Makankōsappō: 100

Son Gohan
~ Initial: 1
~ Scared: 710
~ Enraged: 1,307

Raditz
~ Initial: 1,225
~ Weakened By Son Gohan: 400

One Year For The Ultimate Battle

Kami-Sama: 300

Mr. Popo: 280

Milk: 150

Master Roshi: 139

Tenshinhan
~ Initial: 250
~ After Kami's Training: 850

Krillin
~ Initial: 206
~ After Kami's Training: 750

Yamcha
~ Initial: 177
~ After Kami's Training: 650

Chaozu
~ Initial: 144
~ After Kami's Training: 500

Yajirobe
~ Initial: 152
~ After Kami's Training: 450

Piccolo
~ With Weights: 329
~ After 6 Months Of Training With Weights: 750
~ Without Weights: 1,000

Gohan
~ Initial: 1
~ Enraged: 1,500
~ After One Day In The Wild: 50
~ Ozaru (*10): 500
~ After 6 Months In The Wild: 350

Goku
~ After Running Snake Way With Weights: 1,000
~ Without Weights: 1,250
~ After 40 Days Of North Kaiosama's Training With Weights: 2,250
~ Without Weights: 2,500

Lord Enma: 2,000

Bubbles: 1,400

North Kaiosama: 3,500

The Most Powerful Saiyans Arrive

Piccolo
~ Suppressed: 1,220
~ Full Power: 2,000
~ Kikō (*1.2): 2,400

Son Gohan
~ Suppressed: 981
~ Full Power: 1,200
~ Enraged: 2,435
~ Masenkō (*1.15): 2,800

Krillin
~ Suppressed: 1,083
~ Full Power: 1,500
~ Kakusadan (*1.3): 1,950

Tenshinhan
~ Initial: 1,700
~ Weakened By Nappa: 130
~ Kikōhō (*20): 2,600

Yamcha
~ Initial: 1,300

Chaozu
~ Initial: 1,000
~ Sayonara Ten-San (*2): 2,000

Saibamen
~ Initial: 1,200
~ Jibaku (*2): 2,400

Nappa
~ Relaxed: 2,500
~ Power Up: 3,200
~ Raiki (*1.2): 3,840
~ Derakkusu Bonbā (*1.15): 3,680

Vegeta
~ Relaxed: 2,500

Son Goku To Save the Day

Son Goku
~ Suppressed: 5,000
~ Full Power: 8,050
~ Kamehameha (*1.2): 9,660
~ Kaiōken: 16,100
~ Kaiōken x3: 24,150
~ After Kaiōken x3: 6,400
~ Kaiōken x3: 19,200
~ Kaiōken X3 Kamehameha (*2.5): 48,000
~ Kaiōken x4 Kamehameha (*2.5): 64,000
~ After Kaiōken x4: 2,000
~ Genki Dama: 120,000

Son Gohan
~ Initial: 1,200
~ Enraged: 4,000
~ Weakened By Vegeta: 500
~ Ozaru (*10): 5,000

Krillin
~ Initial: 1,500
~ Genki Dama: 40,000
~ Weakened By Vegeta: 600

Yajirobe: 800

Nappa
~ Initial: 3,200
~ Raiki (*1.2): 3,840
~ Full Power: 8,000
~ Bureiku Kyanon (*1.2): 9,600

Vegeta
~ Initial: 2,500
~ Power Up: 17,000
~ Full Power: 18,000
~ Weakened By Son Goku: 16,000
~ Gyarikku Hō (*3): 48,000
~ Weakened By Kaiōken x4 Kamehameha: 12,000
~ After Creating Artificial Moon: 8,000
~ Ozaru: 80,000
~ After Ozaru Transformation: 5,000
~ Weakened By Genki Dama: 1,500

Milk: 148

Karin: 150

Planet Namek

Son Gohan
~ Suppressed: 5
~ Full Power: 1,500
~ Enraged: 5,000
~ Potential Unlock Increase: 12,000

Krillin
~ Suppressed: 5
~ With Weights: 1,500
~ Without Weights: 1,750
~ Potential Unlock Increase: 11,000

Moori: 1,400

Old Namekian: 1,400

Dende: 10

Namekian Fighters
~ Suppressed: 1,000
~ Full Power: 3,000

Vegeta
~ Suppressed: 15,000
~ Full Power: 24,000
~ After Second Zenkai: 30,000

Son Goku
~ After Zenkai: 12,000
~ Training Under x50 Gravity: 40,000
~ Training Under x100 Gravity: 80,000
~ After Last Zenkai: 90,000

Nail
~ Suppressed: 10,000

Banan: 500

Sūi: 500

Cui: 18,000

Freeza’s Elite Soldiers: 1,250 - 2,000

Appule: 2,500

Dodoria: 20,000

Zarbon
~ Initial: 22,000
~ Transformed: 28,000

Freeza
~ 3rd Suppression: 350,000

The Ginyu Force

Krillin
~ Initial: 11,000
~ Continued Potencial Unlock Increase: 24,000

Son Gohan
~ Initial: 12,000
~ After Zenkai: 16,000
~ After Continued Potencial Unlock Increase: 28,000

Vegeta
~ Initial: 30,000
~ Fainaru Kurasshu (*1.2): 36,000
~ Weakened By Recoome: 5,000
~ After Zenkai: 50,000

Son Goku
~ Suppressed: 5,000
~ Bursts While Battling Burter, Jeise And Suppressed Ginyu: 60,000
~ Full Power: 90,000
~ Kaiōken: 180,000
~ In Ginyu's Body: 10,000

Nail
~ Suppressed: 10,000
~ Full Power: 42,000
~ After Regeneration: 35,000
~ Weakened By Freeza: 1,000

Dende
~ Initial: 10
~ Potencial Unlock Increase: 100

Guldo: 5,000

Recoome
~ Initial: 40,000
~ Eraser Cannon (*1.2): 48,000

Burter: 40,000

Jeice: 40,000

Ginyu:
~ Suppressed: 62,500
~ Full Power: 120,000
~ After Injuring Himself: 10,000
~ In Son Goku’s Body: 23,000

Freeza
~ 3rd Suppression: 350,000

Freeza's Wrath

Krillin
~ Continued Potential Unlock Increase: 180,000

Son Gohan
~ Continued Potential Unlock Increase: 240,000
~ Enraged: 900,000
~ Zenkai: 400,000
~ Enraged: 1,500,000
~ Bakuretsu Ranma (*1.2): 1,800,000

Piccolo
~ After North Kaiosama's Training With Weights: 260,000
~ Without Weights Not Shown: 300,000
~ Fused With Nail With Weights: 1,240,000
~ Without Weights: 1,400,000
~ Weakened By Freeza: 200,000

Vegeta
~ Initial: 325,000
~ Full Power: 500,000
~ Zenkai: 2,800,000
~ Fainaru Bāsuto Kyanon (*1.3): 3,640,000

Freeza
~ 3rd Suppression: 350,000
~ Full Power: 530,000
~ 2nd Suppression: 1,060,000
~ Power up: 1,175,000
~ Full Power: 1,325,000
~ 1st Suppression: 2,000,000
~ True Form: 2,700,000
~ Serious: 4,500,000

Son Goku's Hardest Battle

Krillin
~ Initial: 180,000
~ After Giving Energy: 10,000
~ Kamehameha (*1.5): 15,000
~ After Kamehameha: 500

Son Gohan
~ Initial: 400,000
~ After Giving Energy: 10,000
~ Masenkō (*1.5): 15,000
~ After Masenkō: 500

Piccolo
~ Without Weights: 1,400,000
~ Energy Given: 1,960,000
~ After Super Kick: 250,000

Freeza
~ Initial: 4,500,000
~ 50% of Full Power: 95,000,000
~ Weakened By Genki Dama: 84,000,000

Son Goku
~ After Zenzai: 4,000,000
~ Kaiōken x10: 40,000,000
~ Weakened By Freeza: 3,500,000
~ Kaiōken x20: 70,000,000
~ Kaiōken x20 Kamehameha (*1.5): 105,000,000
~ After Kaiōken x20 Kamehameha: 2,500,000
~ Weakened Even More By Freeza: 700,000
~ Genki Dama: 160,000,000
~ After Genki Dama: 100,000

The Legendary Super Saiyan

Freeza
~ Initial: 84,000,000
~ 70% of Full Power: 133,000,000
~ Full Power: 190,000,000
~ Noba Sutoraiku (*3): 570,000,000
~ After Noba Sutoraiku: 170,000,000
~ Weakened by Son Goku's Beating: 145,000,000
~ Cut In Half: 50
~ Energy Given: 10,000,000
~ Last Stand Energy Wave (*2): 20,000,000

Son Goku
~ Super Saiyan: 200,000,000
~ Kamehameha (*3): 600,000,000
~ After Kamehameha: 160,000,000
~ After Giving Energy: 150,000,000

The Mysterious Stranger

Milk: 146

Chaozu: 50,000

Yamcha: 275,000

Tenshinhan: 325,000

Krillin: 350,000

Son Gohan: 450,000

Piccolo
~ With Weights: 4,200,000
~ Without Weights Not Shown: 4,700,000

Vegeta: 5,000,000

Future Trunks
~ Suppressed: 5
~ Base: 6,500,000
~ Super Saiyan: 320,000,000
~ Holding Back Against Son Goku: 240,000,000

Son Goku
~ Base: 8,000,000
~ Super Saiyan: 400,000,000

Freeza's Soldiers: 500 - 1,000

Mecha Freeza
~ Suppressed: 105,000,000
~ Full Power Not Shown: 210,000,000

King Cold: 100,000,000

3 Years Later

Milk: 140

Yajirobe: 750

Chaozu: 250,000

Yamcha: 3,500,000

Tenshinhan: 5,500,000

Krillin: 6,000,000

Son Gohan: 8,500,000

Son Goku
~ Base: 11,600,000
~ Super Saiyan: 580,000,000
~ Sick Super Saiyan: 440,000,000
~ After Kamehameha: 280,000,000
~ More Sick: 151,000,000
~ Severely Sick And Back To Base: 3,020,000

Vegeta
~ Base: 12,000,000
~ Super Saiyan: 600,000,000
~ After Energy Taken: 450,000,000
~ Biggu Ban Atakku (*3): 1,350,000,000
~ After Biggu Ban Atakku: 330,000,000

Piccolo
~ With Weights Suppressed: 40,000,000
~ With Weights: 450,000,000
~ Without Weights: 500,000,000

Future Trunks
~ Base: 11,000,000
~ Super Saiyan: 550,000,000

#19
~ Initial: 300,000,000
~ Weakened By Son Goku: 250,000,000
~ After Son Goku's Kamehameha Absorption: 357,000,000
~ After Son Goku's Energy Absorption: 360,000,000
~ Weakened By Vegeta: 220,000,000
~ After Vegeta's Energy Absorption: 370,000,000
~ Crippled By Vegeta: 200,000,000

#20
~ Initial: 350,000,000
~ After Yamcha's Energy Absorption: 354,000,000
~ After Vegeta's Power Energy Ball Absorption: 380,000,000
~ After Piccolo's Energy Absorption: 420,000,000
~ Weakened By Piccolo: 360,000,000

Androids #17 And #18

Vegeta
~ Base: 12,000,000
~ Super Saiyan: 600,000,000
~ Weakened By #18: 500,000,000
~ Arm Broken: 340,000,000
~ Weakened Even More By #18: 180,000,000

Future Trunks
~ Base: 11,000,000
~ Super Saiyan: 550,000,000
~ Weakened By #17: 200,000,000

Piccolo: 500,000,000

Krillin: 6,000,000

Tenshinhan: 5,500,000

#18
~ Initial: 625,000,000
~ Serious: 700,000,000
~ Full Power: 900,000,000

#17
~ Initial: 950,000,000
~ Full Power: 1,000,000,000

#16: 5,500,000,000

Cell The Ultimate Android

Piccolo
~ Fused With Kami With Weights And Suppressed: 500,000,000
~ With Weights Power Up: 950,000,000
~ After Energy Taken By Cell: 920,000,000
~ After Regeneration: 900,000,000
~ Energy Regained With Weights: 950,000,000
~ Without Weights: 1,000,000,000
~ Makūhōidan (*1.5): 1,500,000,000
~ Weakened By #17: 980,000,000
~ Weakened By Cell: 800,000,000
~ Gekiretsu Kōdan (*3.5): 2,800,000,000
~ After Gekiretsu Kōdan: 600,000,000
~ Neck Broken: 5,000,000

Tenshinhan
~ Initial: 5,500,000
~ Shin Kikōhō (*2000): 11,000,000,000

#16
~ Initial: 5,500,000,000
~ Heruzu Furasshu (*1.5): 8,250,000,000
~ Damaged By Cell: 550,000,000

#17
~ Initial: 950,000,000
~ Initial: 1,000,000,000
~ Energy Shield (*2): 2,000,000,000

Cell
~ Initial: 400,000,000
~ Full Power: 750,000,000
~ Kamehameha (*2.5): 1,875,000,000
~ After Piccolo's Energy Absorption: 780,000,000
~ After Human's Energy Absorption: 5,600,000,000
~ After Regeneration: 5,580,000,000
~ Weakened By #16: 4,000,000,000
~ 2nd Form: 11,200,000,000

Perfection Acquired

Vegeta
~ After RoSaT Training Base: 260,000,000
~ Super Saiyan: 13,000,000,000
~ Ascended Super Saiyan: 26,000,000,000
~ Losing Power Because Of Stamina Problems: 25,500,000,000
~ Weakened By Cell: 20,000,000,000
~ Fainaru Furasshu (*4): 80,000,000,000
~ After Fainaru Furasshu: 15,000,000,000

Trunks
~ After RoSaT Training Base: 240,000,000
~ Super Saiyan: 12,000,000,000
~ Ascended Super Saiyan: 24,000,000,000
~ Ascended Super Saiyan Buffed Suppressed: 42,000,000,000
~ Ascended Super Saiyan Buffed Full Power: 72,000,000,000

Krillin: 6,000,000

Son Gohan
~ Beginning RoSaT Training Base: 8,500,000
~ Super Saiyan: 425,000,000
~ During RoSaT Training Base: 48,000,000
~ Super Saiyan: 2,400,000,000

Son Goku
~ During RoSaT Training Base: 50,000,000
~ Super Saiyan: 2,500,000,000
~ Ascended Super Saiyan: 5,000,000,000
~ Ascended Super Saiyan Buffed: 15,000,000,000

Cell
~ Initial: 11,200,000,000
~ Full Power: 16,000,000,000
~ Weakened By Vegeta: 11,500,000,000
~ Perfect Form: 25,000,000,000
~ Power up: 52,000,000,000
~ Weakened by Vegeta's Fainaru Furasshu: 44,000,000,000
~ After Regeneration: 40,000,000,000
~ Ready To Fight Again: 52,000,000,000
~ Buffed: 78,000,000,000

10 Days For The Cell Games

Son Gohan
~ After RoSaT Training Mastered Super Saiyan: 20,000,000,000

Son Goku
~ After RoSaT Training Mastered Super Saiyan: 22,000,000,000
~ 50% of Full Power: 50,000,000,000

Vegeta
~ After Second RoSaT Training Base: 1,400,000,000

Trunks
~ After Second RoSaT Training Base: 1,360,000,000

Piccolo
~ After RoSaT Training With Weights: 42,000,000,000

Dende: 110

Mr. Satan: 20

History of Trunks

Future Son Gohan
~ One year Ago Base: 4,400,000
~ Super Saiyan: 220,000,000
~ One Year Later Base: 6,000,000
~ Super Saiyan: 300,000,000

Future Trunks
~ Base: 110,000
~ Super Saiyan: 5,500,000
~ 3 Years Later Base: 6,200,000
~ Super Saiyan: 310,000,000
~ After Zenkai Base: 6,400,000

Future #17
~ Less Than 50%: 260,000,000
~ Full Power: 650,000,000

Future #18: 600,000,000

Cell Games

Mr. Satan: 20

Son Goku
~ Base: 2,000,000,000
~ Mastered Super Saiyan 50% of Full Power: 50,000,000,000
~ Full Power: 100,000,000,000
~ Shunkan Idō Kamehameha (*4): 400,000,000,000
~ After Shunkan Idō Kamehameha: 77,500,000,000
~ Renzoku Kamehameha (*2): 155,000,000,000
~ Weakened By Cell: 32,000,000,000

Son Gohan
~ Base: 2,700,000,000
~ Mastered Super Saiyan Full Power: 135,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2: 1,350,000,000,000
~ Kamehameha (*2): 2,700,000,000,000
~ Weakened By Cell: 675,000,000,000
~ Kamehameha (*4): 2,700,000,000,000
~ Enraged Kamehameha (*8): 5,400,000,000,000

Vegeta
~ Base: 1,400,000,000
~ Super Saiyan: 70,000,000,000
~ Weakened By Cell: 60,000,000,000
~ Fainaru Furasshu (*4): 240,000,000,000

Trunks
~ Base: 1,360,000,000
~ Super Saiyan: 68,000,000,000

Piccolo
~ With Weights: 42,000,000,000
~ Without Weights: 44,000,000,000

#16: 5,500,000,000

Krillin: 6,000,000

Tenshinhan: 5,500,000

Yamcha: 3,500,000

Cell
~ Warm Up: 52,000,000,000
~ Power up Against Son Goku: 107,000,000,000
~ Kamehameha (*2): 214,000,000,000
~ Real Speed: 130,000,000,000
~ Weakened By Son Goku's Kamehameha: 120,000,000,000
~ After Regeneration: 116,000,000,000
~ Pāfekuto Bariā (*2): 232,000,000,000
~ Weakened By Son Goku: 105,000,000,000
~ Healed And Ready To Fight Son Gohan: 130,000,000,000
~ Effort Against Son Gohan: 142,000,000,000
~ Full Power: 750,000,000,000
~ Weakened By Son Gohan: 500,000,000,000
~ Kamehameha (*4): 2,000,000,000,000
~ Weakened By Son Gohan's Kamehameha: 334,000,000,000
~ After Regeneration: 330,000,000,000
~ Buffed: 990,000,000,000
~ 2nd Form: 16,000,000,000
~ Self-Destruct (*10): 160,000,000,000
~ After Zenkai: 1,275,000,000,000
~ Kamehameha (*4): 5,100,000,000,000

Cell juniors: 75,000,000,000

Saving the Future

Future Trunks
~ Base: 1,360,000,000
~ Super Saiyan: 68,000,000,000
~ Base 3 Years Later: 1,600,000,000
~ Super Saiyan: 80,000,000,000
~ Hīto Dōmu Atakku (*3): 240,000,000,000

Future #17: 650,000,000

Future #18: 600,000,000

Future Cell
~ Initial: 1,200,000,000
~ Full Power: 5,000,000,000


7 Years Later

Gohan
~ Base: 1,900,000,000
~ Mastered Super Saiyan: 95,000,000,000

Videl: 22

Trunks
~ Initial: 1,550,000,000
~ Super Saiyan: 77,500,000,000

Goten
~ Initial: 1,500,000,000
~ Super Saiyan: 75,000,000,000

Krillin: 8,450,000

18: 900,000,000

Piccolo
~ With Weights: 57,950,000,000
~ Without Weights Not Shown: 59,950,000,000

Vegeta
~ Base: 2,300,000,000
~ Mastered Super Saiyan: 115,000,000,000

Son Goku
~ Base: 2,900,000,000
~ Mastered Super Saiyan: 145,000,000,000

Milk: 130

Dende: 120

South Kaiosama: 3,500

East Kaiosama: 3,500

West Kaiosama: 3,500

Dai Kaio: 100,000

The 25th Tenkaichi Budokai

Son Goten
~ Base: 1,600,000,000
~ Suppressed Super Saiyan: 40,000,000,000

Trunks
~ Base: 1,650,000,000
~ Suppressed Super Saiyan: 41,250,000,000

Mr. Satan: 18

Krillin: 8,500,000

Punta: 12

East Kaioshin: 1,200,000,000

Piccolo
~ With Weights: 58,000,000,000
~ Without Weights Not Shown: 60,000,000,000

Videl
~ Initial: 24
~ Weakened By Spopovitch: 20
~ Weakened Even More By Spopovitch: 10

Spopovitch
~ Non Majin: 12
~ Majin: 25

Kibito: 250,000,000

Son Gohan
~ Base: 2,000,000,000
~ Mastered Super Saiyan: 100,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2: 1,000,000,000,000

Yamu: 24

Yajirobe: 600

Yamcha: 3,500,000

The Warlock Babidi

Vegeta
~ Base: 2,400,000,000
~ Mastered Super Saiyan Not Shown: 120,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2 Not Shown: 1,200,000,000,000
~ Majin Base Not Shown: 3,000,000,000
~ Majin Mastered Super Saiyan: 150,000,000,000
~ Majin Super Saiyan 2: 1,500,000,000,000
~ Weakened By Son Goku: 700,000,000,000

Son Goku
~ Base: 3,000,000,000
~ Suppressed Mastered Super Saiyan: 10,500,000,000
~ Mastered Super Saiyan: 150,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2 Burst: 1,300,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2: 1,500,000,000,000
~ Weakened By Vegeta: 700,000,000,000

Gohan
~ Base: 2,000,000,000
~ Mastered Super Saiyan: 100,000,000,000

Babidi: 5

Pui Pui: 1,400,000,000

Yakon: 2,800,000,000

Dabura: 104,000,000,000

#18: 900,000,000

Trunks
~ Base: 1,650,000,000
~ Suppressed Super Saiyan: 41,250,000,000
~ Suppressed To Maximum Super Saiyan: 4,000,000,000
~ Biku Torī Kyanon (*1.25): 5,000,000,000

Mr. Satan: 18

Jewel: 13

Killer: 11

The Invincible Monster Boo

Gohan
~ Mastered Super Saiyan: 100,000,000,000
~ Kamehameha (*2.5): 250,000,000,000
~ After Zenkai And Back To Base: 2,200,000,000
~ Mastered Super Saiyan: 110,000,000,000

Vegeta
~ Majin Super Saiyan 2: 1,500,000,000,000
~ Weakened By Fat Boo: 800,000,000,000
~ Fainaru Ekusupurojon (*10): 8,000,000,000,000

Son Goku
~ Base: 3,000,000,000
~ Mastered Super Saiyan: 150,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2: 1,500,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 3: 30,000,000,000,000
~ Kamehameha (*3): 90,000,000,000,000

Goten
~ Base: 1,600,000,000
~ Suppressed Super Saiyan: 40,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan Full Power: 80,000,000,000

Trunks
~ Base: 1,650,000,000
~ Suppressed Super Saiyan: 41,250,000,000
~ Super Saiyan Full Power: 82,500,000,000

East Kaioshin
~ Initial: 1,500,000,000
~ Weakened By Fat Boo: 500

Chaozu: 450,000

Tenshinhan: 8,000,000

Dabura
~ Initial: 104,000,000,000
~ Weakened By Fat Boo: 80,000,000,000

Babidi
~ Initial: 5
~ Near Death: 1

Fat Boo
~ Initial: 140,000,000,000
~ Power up Against Dabura: 1,400,000,000,000
~ Second Power Up Against Vegeta: 1,800,000,000,000
~ Angurī Ekusupurōjon (*3): 5,200,000,000,000
~ Third Power Up Against Son Goku: 24,000,000,000,000
~ Kamehameha (*3): 72,000,000,000,000

The Fusion Dance

Fat Gotenks: 1,000,000

Anorexic Gotenks: 1,000

Gotenks
~ Initial: 1,800,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan: 90,000,000,000,000

Son Gohan
~ After Z Sword Training Base: 40,000,000,000
~ Mastered Super Saiyan: 2,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2: 20,000,000,000,000

Goku
~ Initial: 3,000,000,000
~ Suppressed To Maximum: 500,000

Old Kaioshin: 500,000

Mr. Satan: 18

Fat Boo: 24,000,000,000,000

Evil Boo: 18,000,000,000,000

Good Boo: 6,000,000,000,000

Super Boo
~ Initial: 140,000,000,000,000

A New Evil Is Born

Son Goten
~ After RoSaT Training Base: 2,200,000,000
~ Super Saiyan Full Power: 110,000,000,000

Trunks
~ After RoSaT Training Base: 2,250,000,000
~ Super Saiyan Full Power: 112,500,000,000

Piccolo
~ With Weights: 58,000,000,000
~ Without Weights Not Shown: 60,000,000,000

Gotenks
~ After RoSaT Training Base: 140,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan: 7,000,000,000,000,000
~ Sūpā Gōsuto KamiKaze Atakku (*4): 28,000,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2 Not Shown: 70,000,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 3: 1,400,000,000,000,000,000

Gohan
~ During Old Kaioshin's Ritual: 1,000,000,000,000,000,000
~ Maxium Potential Unlocked: 2,000,000,000,000,000,000
~ Weakened By Super Boo (Gotenks Absorbed): 1,500,000,000,000,000,000
~ Weakened Even More By Super Boo (Gotenks Absorbed): 500,000,000,000,000,000

Tenshinhan
~ Initial: 8,000,000
~ Shin Kikōhō (*2200): 17,600,000,000

Kibitoshin: 750,000,000,000

Goku
~ Initial: 3,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 3: 30,000,000,000,000

Super Boo
~ Initial: 140,000,000,000,000
~ Ready To Fight: 12,500,000,000,000,000
~ Full Power: 1,250,000,000,000,000,000
~ Ribenji Desu Bonba (*5): 6,250,000,000,000,000,000
~ Gotenks Absorbed: 2,650,000,000,000,000,000
~ Piccolo Absorbed: 1,250,000,060,000,000,000
~ Gohan Absorbed: 3,250,000,000,000,000,000

The Ultimate Warrior

Vegetto
~ Base: 3,000,000,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan: 150,000,000,000,000,000,000

Goku
~ Initial: 3,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2: 1,500,000,000,000

Vegeta
~ Initial: 3,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2: 1,500,000,000,000

Super Boo
~ Gohan Absorbed: 3,250,000,000,000,000,000
~ Sūpā Gōsuto KamiKaze Atakku (*4): 13,000,000,000,000,000,000
~ Piccolo Absorbed: 1,250,000,060,000,000,000
~ Back To Normal: 1,250,000,000,000,000,000
~ Buffed: 1,700,000,000,000,000,000

Kid Boo
~ Initial: 1,000,000,000,000
~ Full Power: 30,000,000,000,000
~ Puranetto Bāsuto (*6): 180,000,000,000,000

North KaioShin: 2,500,000,000

West KaioShin: 4,000,000,000

South KaioShin: 10,000,000,000

Grand Supreme KaioShin: 7,500,000,000

Boo's Defeat

Son Goku
~ Super Saiyan 2: 1,500,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 3: 30,000,000,000,000
~ Losing Power Because Of Stamina Problems: 28,500,000,000,000
~ Stamina Strained And Back To Base: 500,000,000
~ Friends Genki Dama: 25,000,000,000,000
~ Earth Genki Dama: 250,000,000,000,000
~ Healed: 3,000,000,000
~ Mastered Super Saiyan: 150,000,000,000

Vegeta
~ Base: 3,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2: 1,500,000,000,000
~ Weakened By Kid Boo And Back To Base: 800,000,000

Good Boo
~ Initial: 6,000,000,000,000
~ Weakened By Kid Boo: 3,500,000,000,000
~ Weakened Even More By Kid Boo: 200,000,000

Mr. Satan: 18

Kid Boo: 30,000,000,000,000

Avo And Cado

Gohan: 2,000,000,000,000,000,000

Good Boo: 6,000,000,000,000

Piccolo
~ With Weights: 64,000,000,000
~ Without Weights Not Shown: 66,000,000,000

#18: 900,000,000

Krillin: 9,000,000

Tenshinhan: 8,500,000

Yamcha: 3,500,000

Chaozu: 500,000

Yajirobe: 575

Dende: 130

Milk: 128

Videl: 25

Mr. Satan: 17

Tarble: 400,000

Goten
~ Supressed: 193,132
~ Full Power: 2,800,000,000
~ Super Saiyan Not Shown: 140,000,000,000

Trunks
~ Suppressed: 198,632
~ Full Power: 2,850,000,000
~ Super Saiyan Not Shown: 142,500,000,000

Fat Gotenks: 10,000,000

Gotenks
~ Base: 180,000,000,000,000
~ Sūpā Gōsuto KamiKaze Atakku (*4): 720,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan: 9,000,000,000,000,000

Vegeta
~ Base: 5,600,000,000,000
~ Mastered Super Saiyan Not Shown: 280,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2 Not Shown: 2,800,000,000,000,000

Goku
~ Suppressed: 250,000
~ Full Power: 6,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan: 300,000,000,000,000
~ Kamehameha (*3): 900,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2 Not Shown: 3,000,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 3 Not Shown: 60,000,000,000,000,000

Avo: 550,000

Cado: 550,000

Aka
~ Initial: 55,000,000,000,000
~ Supā Wahahanoha (*2.5): 137,500,000,000,000
~ Faiyā Wahahanoha (*3): 165,000,000,000,000


The God of Destruction Bills

*************ESTIMATES!!***************************

Bills: 380,000,000,000,000,000,000

Wiss: 540,000,000,000,000,000,000

Goku
~ Initial: 12,500,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan: 625,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2: 6,250,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 3: 125,000,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan God: 375,000,000,000,000,000,000

Son Gohan: 2,000,000,000,000,000,000

Gotenks
~ Base: 300,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan: 15,000,000,000,000,000

Vegeta
~ Base: 12,000,000,000,000
~ Mastered Super Saiyan: 600,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2: 6,000,000,000,000,000
~ Enraged Super Saiyan 2: 6,000,000,000,000,000,000

Good Boo: 6,000,000,000,000

Trunks
~ Initial: 3,550,000,000
~ Super Saiyan: 177,500,000,000

Goten
~ Initial: 3,500,000,000
~ Super Saiyan: 175,000,000,000

Piccolo
~ With Weights: 70,000,000,000
~ Without Weights: 72,000,000,000

#18: 900,000,000

Krillin: 11,000,000

Tenshinhan: 10,500,000

Yamcha: 3,500,000

Chaozu: 575,000

Dende: 160

Milk: 124

Videl: 27

Mr. Satan: 16

Ten Years Later Farewell Dragon World

Mr. Satan: 14

Videl: 30

Milk: 118

Dende: 200

Yajirobe: 450

Chaozu: 700,000

Yamcha: 3,500,000

Tenshinhan: 12,000,000

Krillin: 12,500,000

Bra: 100,000,000

#18: 900,000,000

Piccolo
~ With Weights: 82,000,000,000
~ Without Weights Not Shown: 84,000,000,000

Son Gohan: 2,000,000,000,000,000,000

Nok: 10

Otokosuki: 12

Captain Chicken: 12

Kirano: 25

Son Goten
~ Base: 5,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan Not Shown: 250,000,000,000

Trunks
~ Base: 5,050,000,000
~ Super Saiyan Not Shown: 252,500,000,000

Good Boo: 6,000,000,000,000

Vegeta
~ Base: 24,000,000,000,000
~ Mastered Super Saiyan Not Shown: 1,200,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2 Not Shown: 12,000,000,000,000,000

Pan: 500,000,000

Mokekko: 14

Oob
~ Initial: 20
~ Enraged: 24,500,000,000,000
~ Rage Burst: 30,000,000,000,000

Son Goku
~ Base: 25,000,000,000,000
~ Mastered Super Saiyan Not Shown: 1,250,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2 Not Shown: 12,500,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 3 Not Shown: 250,000,000,000,000,000

************************

Multipliers

SSJ: 50 times base
USSJ: 2 times SSJ
USSJ2: 3 times USSJ
MSSJ: 50 times base
SSJ2: 10 times MSJ/SSJ
SSJ3: 20 times SSJ2
SSJG: 3,000 times SSJ3

*************************

[RandomGuy96]

Wow, I got a lot of problems with that list actually... well, first and foremost, why do you just throw out so many official numbers that are given to you?

[TheMightyOzaru]

Yeah... You ignore way too many official numbers for this to be taken seriously. Also they seem way too damn high....

[ZombieVito]

What? I have all the numbers fron the manga....

What numbers do you think are high?

[TheMightyOzaru]

What? I have all the numbers fron the manga....

What numbers do you think are high?

Well for starters. Ssj2 is stated to be 2x Ssj and Ssj3 is stated to be 4x Ssj2. Nappa is stated to be 4,000 and Raditz is stated to be 1,500. As for the shear height of these numbers, I don't even have Ssj3 Goku breaking 1 Trillion during the Buy saga. My highest numbers are for Uisu, Birusu, Ssj God Goku, and Vegetto, and they are only breaking 200 Quintillion+ because Vegetto's power level is supposedly Goku's x Vegeta's. Everyone else is lucky to break 10 Trillion. Now these are just my opinions on how high the power levels are but still, I don't normally see Gohan breaking 2,000,000,000,000,000,000.

[ZombieVito]

Those numbers or multipliers weren't given by AT or the manga, in any case they don't make sense. Raditz was said to rival the Saibamen, a 1.25x difference is not rivaling (that's an even bigger difference than Vegeta vs Dodoria LOL). Same with Nappa, Goku implied that their fight was going to last quite a while if he didn't used Kaiōken, those just don't work. And while they seem bloated (trust me compared to others I see, they are not that bloated) that's what the manga implies with the gaps, mostly IPC and Piccolos Light Grenade. That instance bloats everything. Ah and Gotenks, we must not forget Gotenks.

[JulieYBM]

Alrighty, time for some Battle of Gods battle powers!

Son Gokuu: stronger than his Majin Boo arc self.
Son Gohan: weaker than Bill'z.
Gotenks: weaker than Bill'z.
Vegeta: stronger than Gokuu, weaker than Bill'z.
Piccolo: Bill'z, Vegeta, Gotenks, Gohan, Gokuu, and Whis.
Giant Fish: stronger than little fish he eats.
Little Fish: weaker than the stronger fish who eats him.
Saiyan King: weaker than Bill'z foot.
Bill'z: stronger than everyone in the film but Whis.
Whis: stronger than everyonei n the film, including Bill'z.


Phew, that sure did take a while.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Alrighty, time for some Battle of Gods battle powers!

Son Gokuu: stronger than his Majin Boo arc self.
Son Gohan: weaker than Bill'z.
Gotenks: weaker than Bill'z.
Vegeta: stronger than Gokuu, weaker than Bill'z.
Piccolo: Bill'z, Vegeta, Gotenks, Gohan, Gokuu, and Whis.
Giant Fish: stronger than little fish he eats.
Little Fish: weaker than the stronger fish who eats him.
Saiyan King: weaker than Bill'z foot.
Bill'z: stronger than everyone in the film but Whis.
Whis: stronger than everyonei n the film, including Bill'z.


Phew, that sure did take a while.

[Godo]

Yeah... You ignore way too many official numbers for this to be taken seriously. Also they seem way too damn high....

Well, the thread is in Fan-Created Works...no need for the numbers to correlate with the official numbers at all really.
I for one appreciate fresh numbers, especially if there are notations explaining why they are changed (as one's interpretation of the fight and such).
I think that it is unfair not to take someone seriously just because of that they don't use the official numbers. If we did that, would there be a need for a thread like this?
Officially, power levels are unreliable.
Officially, power levels are obsolete after the Freeza arc. And if I remember it correct, power levels became too huge to count with numbers (I may be wrong).
In the case of the latter, power levels may really have become as high as 120.000.000.000.000.000.000.000 towards the end.

One thing I don't get with that powerlevel list though, is why there is a need to romanize names based on English words?
I mean, because of the Japanese pronounciation, it would sound like they are saying "Biggu Ban Atakku", but the attack is Big Bang Attack, based on English, right?

It's like someone speaking in Persian would pronounce the attack "Final Blast" as "Fajnal Belaast", I would call the attack "Fajnal Belaast", while he meant from the beginning "Final Blast" as the name.
I don't get it.

[ZombieVito]

I get it, you guys are talking about those power levels for the Daizenshuu right? lol, sorry I should have been more specific, I don't care for them or used them. The are inaccurate. I only take into account the manga or AT word (hence the constant x50 multiplier for SSJ).

As for the the name of the attacks, I grew up with the Latin America dub, the were no Special Beam Cannons or Spirit Bombs, they had the correct translation, I just thought they looked cool and left them in Japanese.

[TheMightyOzaru]

I get it, you guys are talking about those power levels for the Daiz right? lol, sorry I should have been more specific, I don't care for them or used them. The are inaccurate. I only take into account the manga or AT word (hence the constant x50 multiplier for SSJ).

As for the the name of the attacks, I grew up with the Latin America dub, the were no Special Beam Cannons or Spirit Bombs, they had the correct translation, I just thought they looked cool and left them in Japanese.

Except they are accurate... Toriyama approves of these guides and they make sense. Nappa doesn't have to be at 5,000, it wouldn't even make a difference seeing how there it just went from a difference of 4,000 to 3,000 which is still larger than the gap between Dodoria and Vegeta. The size of the difference between power levels is inconsequential since the plot determines when the difference truly matters. SSJ is 50x base, SSJ2 is 2x SSJ, and SSJ3 is 4x SSJ2. As for Raditz, there is a direct quote from Toriyama that states that Raditz is decently stronger than a Saibaman. Raditz was also killed by the Mankankosappo which is stated to be a sort of piercing technique, so what if was 170 units off. Plus Raditz might be able to produce an attack with a measurement of 1,500 but that doesn't necessarily mean he can defend himself with a measurement of 1,500. It's been established that Raditz has a very limited concept of Ki.

[ZombieVito]

I'm sorry but if it's not in the manga or is a direct quote from AT, its of no value for me. 4000 for Nappa just doesn't work, it's almost the same gap than SSJ Goku and %50 Freeza and Freeza got owned in seconds. Dodoria's gap is no more than a 1.2x gap and was one shotted. He needs to be at 7700+ to make that quote from Goku work. Raditz can't also be any higher than 1250, Gohan at 1,307 owned him.

Can you please provide the direct quote from AT that says Raditz is at 1,500?

[RandomGuy96]

I think that's ridiculously close-minded and that the guides actually make perfect sense. Nappa didn't do ANYTHING against Goku- he was crapping his pants at the thought of facing someone at 5,000 and never even managed to land a single hit on 8,000 Goku. Goku even casually deflected his ultimate attack with basically no effort. There's no way he can possibly be that high. He also cannot power up. This is explicit; everyone except a select few walk around at full power all the time, hence why Nappa was surprised that the scouter couldn't read all of the Earthlings' power levels. So that power he showed against the humans, Gohan, and Piccolo was his full power, and he still got hit several times and nearly died twice. His sole saving grace is that he can take a beating- which doesn't have to be related to power level. Raditz getting owned can also be explained by him simply being caught off guard- when Piccolo caught Freeza off guard, he kicked him and sent him flying into a mountain despite Freeza being 50 times stronger than him. And, in my opinion, 120 vs 150 is easily rivaling- there's only a 20% difference.

I think Dodoria vs Vegeta really screws up a lot of peoples' perceptions of how power scaling works. You get people saying stuff like "NO! THIS NUMBER CAN'T POSSIBLY BE ACCURATE BECAUSE THE GAP IS A WHOLE 0.0000000001% AND CHARACTER A DIDN'T GET ONE-SHOTTED". Power scaling isn't always consistent, and Dodoria vs Vegeta was a pretty atypical case that's easily explained by the circumstances. Also, IIRC, didn't Piccolo win against form 2 Freza despite form 2 Frieza having a slightly higher power level? Didn't Krillin land several hits on Nappa despite being half his strength?

Also also: I'm pretty sure that wasn't 50% Freeza... couldn't Freeza go up to 70% without bulking up?

This is a general subject I'd like to get into. What are other people's opinions on how power differences effect battles? With me, I have it like:

91-100% of your opponent's power: You're about on par. Fight could go either way, though obviously the opponent with the higher level will have a bit of an edge.

75-90% of your opponent's power: You can put up a pretty decent fight, and even win if you're skilled enough and/or your opponent's dumb enough, but you're at a stark disadvantage.

74-66% of your opponent's power: You're pretty much screwed, you'd be lucky if you managed to land two good hits. However, it's not IMPOSSIBLE to win per se, just near impossible; a good technique or a lucky hit (like with, say, a charged Kamehameha, which completely surprised a low-level Freeza soldier with how powerful it was) can still net you a win.

50-65% (or lower): You'd be lucky to survive two good hits, unless you're a tough mofo or your opponent is toying with you (happens way too much in this series...). Better have a good technique AND a distraction (or a teammate) cause that's the only way you have a chance.

[Rocketman]

Piccolo and Goku were about 33% of Raditz.

[ZombieVito]

Like it or not Nappa and Vegeta both powered up, these instances can't be ignore:

http://view.thespectrum.net/series/drag ... 8&page=172

Piccolo his amazed how much Nappa powered up thinking previously that he could not get that strong.

http://view.thespectrum.net/series/drag ... +20&page=4

http://view.thespectrum.net/series/drag ... +20&page=5

That's clearly a power up, why would Goku be amazed then?.

Hell even Piccolo didn't know Vegeta was stronger than Nappa:

http://view.thespectrum.net/series/drag ... 19&page=35

Did he forgot to sense Ki?

Also this:

http://view.thespectrum.net/series/drag ... 9&page=132

Is Goku a liar then? Why use Kaioken if hes twice as fast? We already have an example of a fight with one opponent being 2x the other (50% Freeza vs SSJ Goku) can you honestly think Goku's fight with that Freeza will last FOREVER? He was crusing him, bad. Even then Vegeta told Nappa to calm down and fight, Vegeta doesnt know Nappa's PL now? Sorry but no dice, it's a direct power statement from the manga, Nappa =< Goku.

A 1.25X gap can't work (120 vs 150), it's just too close to the 1.33x gap Vegeta had on Cui. Theres also nothing wrong with the fight with Dodoria. Another example is Monster Zarbon vs Vegeta, most put Zarbon in the 28K range, that's a 1.18-1.16X gap and he totally trashed Vegeta. Sorry but no, I might accept that number (120) but after it's stated Freeza is getting weaker that Goku decides to stop the fight, no way its at the beginning of the fight.

A powerfull character can be hit by a weaker one for example Freeza might have been caught off guard by Piccolo but he was never stated to be weakened. Raditz was, hence Gohan (enraged) > Raditz.

When exactly was Nappa in danger of dying against Piccolo and Co.? Maybe with the Kienzan but that's it.

[Kaboom]

This is a general subject I'd like to get into. What are other people's opinions on how power differences effect battles?

If there's anything I've learned over the years I've fiddled with numerical power levels, it's that worrying too much about specific gaps and what can or can't be done with them is nothing but a big road to a headache. Even if the outcome of battles comes down to who's got the higher power level 99% of the time, there's no set rules determining how close someone has to be just to put up a fight. There's a lot of other factors besides just raw power which can play into that sort of thing.

That said... "Like it or not," there's absolutely nothing in the series that disproves the official numbers for Raditz, Nappa, or Freeza. Just fans drawing their own conclusions, and holding themselves back with overly strict "rules" they've crafted themselves. However, it's still entirely that fan's prerogative whether or not to use those numbers. I, personally, find it needlessly complicating and kind of backwards to ditch the official numbers in favor of one's own made-up scaling system, but I've got no place in putting anyone down for it. The reverse also holds true; don't dis anyone for accepting or defending the official numbers, or act as if they just aren't as enlightened about it as you or something.

[TheMightyOzaru]

I'm sorry but if it's not in the manga or is a direct quote from AT, its of no value for me. 4000 for Nappa just doesn't work, it's almost the same gap than SSJ Goku and %50 Freeza and Freeza got owned in seconds. Dodoria's gap is no more than a 1.2x gap and was one shotted. He needs to be at 7700+ to make that quote from Goku work. Raditz can't also be any higher than 1250, Gohan at 1,307 owned him.

Can you please provide the direct quote from AT that says Raditz is at 1,500?

It's a direct quote in the Daizenshuus. Like I said, giving Nappa an extra 1,000 makes the gap still larger than the gap between Dodoria and Vegeta so again it's pointless to put him at 5,000. Like I already said, Raditz has a rather limited concept of Ki, he was also caught off guard. Raditz likely doesn't know how to defend himself properly which is why attacks of about 1,300+ will hurt him. 1,500 does work. There is no need to alter the already given numbers.

[ZombieVito]

So no quote then. Good to know.

EDIT: also, give me one, one example in the manga when a fighter gets weakened by a weaker fighter to the point they can't even fend off a character that was 1/3 off him.