Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

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Mjb1985
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Mjb1985 » Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:26 pm

For me the " need " to absorb South Kaioshin is immediately thrown out the window when Buff Buu " needs " to Dai Kaioshin.

Clearly Dai Kaioshin can not do anything to Buff Buu, a being superior to Super Buu and Super Gotenks. So if Buu can absorb when he is clearly multi folds above someone, then South Kaioshin being strong or weak in comparison to Kid Buu is irrelevant.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Vertical » Wed Jul 10, 2013 6:33 am

Mjb1985 wrote:For me the " need " to absorb South Kaioshin is immediately thrown out the window when Buff Buu " needs " to Dai Kaioshin.

Clearly Dai Kaioshin can not do anything to Buff Buu, a being superior to Super Buu and Super Gotenks. So if Buu can absorb when he is clearly multi folds above someone, then South Kaioshin being strong or weak in comparison to Kid Buu is irrelevant.
Does Kid Buu ever use magic? I do not recall so, if he did.

If he did not then it could be that the magic used by the previous Buu forms came from Dai Kaioshin... and said powerful magic was the reason he was absorbed. We've seen what the weakest Kaioshin could do with his magic (holding back a certain SSJ2). Is it not feasible that Dai Kaioshin could inflict damage, or at least be decently annoying a being many times stronger than himself?

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Mjb1985 » Wed Jul 10, 2013 7:46 am

I don't think East Kaioshin uses magic. His abilities seem consist with a being who is primarily a psychic entity. And I have a hard time seeing why East would describe South as the strongest, if Dai Kaioshin had abilities that blew him out of the water.

So no, Dai Kaioshin being a threat to Buff Buu seems like an absurd thought to me.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:28 am

Vertical wrote:
Mjb1985 wrote:For me the " need " to absorb South Kaioshin is immediately thrown out the window when Buff Buu " needs " to Dai Kaioshin.

Clearly Dai Kaioshin can not do anything to Buff Buu, a being superior to Super Buu and Super Gotenks. So if Buu can absorb when he is clearly multi folds above someone, then South Kaioshin being strong or weak in comparison to Kid Buu is irrelevant.
Does Kid Buu ever use magic? I do not recall so, if he did.
He tries to use the Chocolate Beam against Goku. Or at least something that looks just like it.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Vertical » Wed Jul 10, 2013 3:04 pm

Kamiccolo9 wrote:He tries to use the Chocolate Beam against Goku. Or at least something that looks just like it.
Is that in the manga, or anime exclusive?
Mjb1985 wrote:I don't think East Kaioshin uses magic. His abilities seem consist with a being who is primarily a psychic entity.
He clearly possesses the ability to use magic though, as displayed when he summons the cube of Katchin.
Mjb1985 wrote:And I have a hard time seeing why East would describe South as the strongest, if Dai Kaioshin had abilities that blew him out of the water.

So no, Dai Kaioshin being a threat to Buff Buu seems like an absurd thought to me.
Buu and Babidi.

Buu is clearly the stronger of the two but Babidi is a definite threat to him. It could be the exact same situation here. South-K could be ridiculously stronger but Dai-K could possess ridiculous abilities. This would lead East-K to describe South-K as the stronger of the two, as he would describe Buu as being the stronger of he and Babidi.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Wed Jul 10, 2013 3:09 pm

Vertical wrote:
Kamiccolo9 wrote:He tries to use the Chocolate Beam against Goku. Or at least something that looks just like it.
Is that in the manga, or anime exclusive?
It's in the manga. It's right after Goku bites Buu.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by RandomGuy96 » Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:47 pm

Isn't Pure Buu not listed as a user of the Chocolate Beam in the Daizenshuu? That might point to it being a generic antenna beam.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Wed Jul 10, 2013 8:52 pm

RandomGuy96 wrote:Isn't Pure Buu not listed as a user of the Chocolate Beam in the Daizenshuu? That might point to it being a generic antenna beam.
The beam didn't actually hit, so we can't be sure. Still, considering that it's Buu, who has never been seen using a generic antenna beam, what the attack looks like, and Goku's panicked expression when dodging it, I think it's safe to say that this is the chocolate beam. It's not like the Daizenshuu is perfect, after all.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Mjb1985 » Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:14 pm

I think it can turn you into whatever he wants it to. I don't think chocolate is the only option.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by RandomGuy96 » Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:17 pm

We know that he can, since Fat Buu fired a single beam that turned millions of people into clay, and he turned Dabura into a cookie. In the anime, Super Buu also turned a rock into a toilet.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Mjb1985 » Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:19 pm

Oh yea and candy, Chi Chi was an egg. Yea so there's no such thing as a generic beam or chocolate beam. It's at Buu's discretion.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:20 pm

Mjb1985 wrote:Oh yea and candy, Chi Chi was an egg. Yea so there's no such thing as a generic beam or chocolate beam. It's at Buu's discretion.
I've always just called it chocolate beam out of convenience. That's what the games call it.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Saiga » Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:21 pm

Yeah, I've always thought that it was something the Daizenshuu missed. It's only one small panel, or they may have excluded it because it can't be confirmed if it is the chocolate beam since it's effects weren't seen.

Given the sheer utility of it I'd say "shapeshift beam" or something similar would be a better name for it, however.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by RandomGuy96 » Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:22 pm

I may start calling it the Transmutation Beam, 'cause it sounds cooler. By far my favorite ability in the series, except maybe Buu's absorption. I really think that they should've been hybridized and interchangeable, like when Evil Buu absorbed Good Buu. The only problem is that it's incredibly broken, and every fight where Buu doesn't one-shot his opponent looks like PIS.

...as an aside, does anyone HATE it when a fighter who can one-shot their opponent uses their special ability once, has it dodged/blocked/countered, and just decides to never do it again? It happens with Piccolo, Dabura, Good Buu, Kid Buu...

Anyway, what I was saying is it's not impossible for that ability to have come from Grand Kaioshin. We never saw Kid Buu's beam connect, so it could've just been a generic non-reality warping antenna beam, like the ones Piccolo used.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Saiga » Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:39 pm

We saw how easily Pure Evil Boo countered it, though. He blew it back with his breath. And Goku dodged it at close range. I would say that while the effect is powerful, the technique is unreliable.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by RandomGuy96 » Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:43 pm

All I'm saying is that Piccolo/Dabura/Buu would have been much more effective if he had just machine gunned his two handed SBC/Stone Spit/Transmutation Beam in his fight with Nappa/Gohan/Goku.

Even if Goku dodged it at close range, how many times can he really dodge it if Buu just keeps spamming it in melee range? It's a one hit kill if it connects.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Saiga » Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:52 pm

Lots, because your opponent is being mega predictable once they start doing the same shit over and over again.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Draken » Wed Jul 10, 2013 10:53 pm

RandomGuy96 wrote:All I'm saying is that Piccolo/Dabura/Buu would have been much more effective if he had just machine gunned his two handed SBC/Stone Spit/Transmutation Beam in his fight with Nappa/Gohan/Goku.

Even if Goku dodged it at close range, how many times can he really dodge it if Buu just keeps spamming it in melee range? It's a one hit kill if it connects.
Maybe it's one of those unspammables. I mean Piccolo sure didn't seem like he could spam his SBC...

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by TheMightyOzaru » Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:53 pm

Ok so I basically made Gotenks stronger than Goku post ROSAT and this is how it affected everything:

Great Saiyaman Arc

7 Years Later
Gohan: 55,000,000
SSJ Gohan: 1,375,000,000
Goten: 26,000,000
SSJ Goten: 1,300,000,000
Trunks: 26,600,000
SSJ Trunks: 1,330,000,000
Videl: 9

25th Tenkaichi Budokai
Goten: 27,000,000
SSJ Goten: 1,350,000,000
Trunks: 28,000,000
SSJ Trunks: 1,400,000,000
Mr Satan: 11
Gohan: 56,000,000
Piccolo: 1,200,000,0000
Goku: 80,000,000
Vegeta: 64,000,000
Krillin: 196,000
Cyborg #18: 350,000,000
Yamcha: 75,000
Kaioshin: 2,100,000,000
Kibito: 56,000,000
Spopobitchi: 50
Yamu: 45
Videl: 32
FPSSJ Gohan(Angry): 3,080,000,000
SSJ2 Gohan: 5,600,000,000

Majin Buu Arc

The Wizard Babidi
Pui Pui: 400,000
Yakon: 64,000,000
SSJ Goku: 2,400,000,000
Dabura: 2,800,000,000
FPSSJ Gohan: 2,800,000,000
Majin FPSSJ Vegeta: 4,000,000,000
FPSSJ Goku: 4,000,000,000
Majin SSJ2 Vegeta: 8,000,000,000
SSJ2 Goku: 8,000,000,000

Majin Buu Awakens
Majin Buu: 18,000,000,000
-Final Explosion: 16,000,000,000
SSJ3 Goku: 32,000,000,000
Gotenks: 540,000,000
SSJ Gotenks: 27,000,000,000
Majin Buu(Angry to the Point of Splitting): 36,000,000,000
Pure Evil Buu: 26,000,000,000
Good Buu: 10,000,000,000
Evil Buu: 260,000,000,000

Fusion Arc

Fu-Sion-Ha!
Gohan(Post Z-Sword Training): 80,000,000
Goten: 35,000,000
Trunks: 36,000,000
Gotenks: 700,000,000
SSJ Gotenks: 35,000,000,000
SSJ2 Gotenks: 70,000,000,000
SSJ3 Gotenks: 280,000,000,000
Ultimate Gohan: 400,000,000,000
Buutenks: 541,200,000,000
Kibitoshin: 5,750,000,000
Buuhan: 661,271,500,000
Tenshinhan: 180,000
Vegetto: 640,000,000,000
FPSSJ Vegetto: 32,000,000,000,000

Kid Buu Returns!?
Kid Buu: 30,000,000,000
Western Kaioshin: 7,000,000,000
Northern Kaioshin: 3,000,000,000
Southern Kaioshin: 27,000,000,000
Majin Buu(Southern Kaioshin Absorbed): 270,000,000,000
Eastern Kaioshin: 2,000,000,000
Daikaioshin: 15,000,000,000
SSJ3 Goku: 32,000,000,000
-True Kamehameha: 40,000,000,000
SSJ2 Vegeta: 8,000,000,000
Good Buu: 10,000,000,000
-Super Genki Dama: 36,000,000,000
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours."
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Draken » Thu Jul 11, 2013 3:56 pm

Far too lazy to scour for old PL lists, but was it you who used to have UG at 300 billion and Super Buu at 180 bill or was that RandomGuy?

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