Any general discussion regarding fan-created works of the Dragon Ball franchise, including AMVs, fan-art, fan-fiction, etc.
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RandomGuy96
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by RandomGuy96 » Fri Dec 13, 2013 9:57 pm
Kakashi wrote:RandomGuy96 wrote:DBZGTKOSDH wrote:It still doesn't place Piccolo in the hundreds of thousands, it only places him in the dozens.
For the power-up being so huge, I guess we could explain it from running through the Serpentine Road for a month, and the fact that Piccolo can train almost all day since he is dead, plus that Kaio's training gives an incredible power-up.
As for Gohan's & Kuririn's power, I don't buy that they went from over 10.000 to hundreds of thousands in a few hours. Yes, their power was rising over time, but not to that point. Besides, Kuririn is officially at 75.000 during the battle with Freeza, and Gohan is at 200.000 after his near-death power-up with Freeza.
What's the point, then? Him being in the dozens of thousands is only very slightly less improbable than him being in the hundreds of thousands. Him having made any noticeable gain at all is. So why insist he's not?
I have no problem with him being 400,000 now. Not like it matters at all.
But it's wrong. Freeza before he powered up would beat Piccolo handily
Except we don't know what level he was at prior to Vegeta pissing him off. In fact, do we even know that he changed his power level at all?
The Monkey King wrote:RandomGuy96 wrote:dbgtFO wrote:
Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
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Kakashi
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by Kakashi » Fri Dec 13, 2013 10:08 pm
RandomGuy96 wrote:
But it's wrong. Freeza before he powered up would beat Piccolo handily
Except we don't know what level he was at prior to Vegeta pissing him off. In fact, do we even know that he changed his power level at all?[/quote]
He powered up
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RandomGuy96
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by RandomGuy96 » Fri Dec 13, 2013 10:08 pm
Again, do we know that he actually changed his power level?
The Monkey King wrote:RandomGuy96 wrote:dbgtFO wrote:
Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
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Kakashi
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by Kakashi » Fri Dec 13, 2013 10:11 pm
RandomGuy96 wrote:Again, do we know that he actually changed his power level?
He powered up vs Vegeta and the rest and he told Nail he would not use his full power
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RandomGuy96
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by RandomGuy96 » Fri Dec 13, 2013 10:13 pm
Kakashi wrote:RandomGuy96 wrote:Again, do we know that he actually changed his power level?
He powered up vs Vegeta and the rest and he told Nail he would not use his full power
Again, that proves nothing. Where do we actually get confirmation on him changing his power level?
Never mind, I found the Nail quote. Still, that says nothing about WHAT percentage of his power that he was using. It can be 529,000 for all we know.
The Monkey King wrote:RandomGuy96 wrote:dbgtFO wrote:
Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
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Saiga
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by Saiga » Sat Dec 14, 2013 12:15 am
RandomGuy96 wrote:Saiga wrote:Tenshinhan showed up to help against Evil Boo. You don't need a certain power level to want to help someone, and Nail straight up tells Piccolo he'll be killed by Freeza if he doesn't merge with Nail.
That example doesn't really fit. Ten used a special technique to block an attack. Piccolo sensed all powers involved and still thought he could actually help them win, just because of the power he gained in that week. He never said anything like "Oh no, I THOUGHT that I'd powered up massively, but it turns out even Krillin is several times stronger than me!". I don't see how any of this fits without some serious Piccolo-hax from a week of training.
It does fit, because Ten didn't go there specifically to use that technique to block that attack and save Dende. He was only able to use that technique because it was a weak blast intended to off someone weaker than even Ten. If it wasn't for that specific scenario he couldn't have known when he decided to come help, he wouldn't have been able to do shit, as seen when he stands around helplessly when Boo prepares a
real ki attack. Piccolo never says they'll still win after sensing Freeza's power, and he's convinced into fusing with Nail because Nail specifically points out he'll just die if he goes there. He didn't do that because he wanted to, if he was confident he could have just ignored Nail.
I'm re-watching Dragon Ball GT in full on
my blog. Check it out if you're interested in my thoughts on the series as I watch through it!
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ZombieVito
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by ZombieVito » Sat Dec 14, 2013 1:06 am
Wasn't Kuririn's 75,000 and Gohan's 200,000 PL from V-Jump and not the Daiz? Are the V-Jump ones official too?
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Kakashi
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by Kakashi » Sat Dec 14, 2013 9:13 am
RandomGuy96 wrote:Kakashi wrote:RandomGuy96 wrote:Again, do we know that he actually changed his power level?
He powered up vs Vegeta and the rest and he told Nail he would not use his full power
Again, that proves nothing. Where do we actually get confirmation on him changing his power level?
Never mind, I found the Nail quote. Still, that says nothing about WHAT percentage of his power that he was using. It can be 529,000 for all we know.
Frieza was holding back a lot, that's obvious
Piccolo says Frieza got stronger when he powered up vs Vegeta. That's shown
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Kaboom
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by Kaboom » Sat Dec 14, 2013 3:12 pm
Freeza IS one of the few non-Earthling beings said and shown to have some degree of control over his battle power. If he could change his power in his 2nd form, then it stands to reason he could do the same in his 1st form.
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ZombieVito
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by ZombieVito » Sat Dec 14, 2013 4:14 pm
I don't know why is this a debate, Piccolo confirmed Freeza did powered up in his 3rd suppression.
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Kaboom
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by Kaboom » Sat Dec 14, 2013 4:43 pm
Zombie wrote:I don't know why is this a debate, Piccolo confirmed Freeza did powered up in his 3rd suppression.
True, but the question seems to be about him doing the same in his first form.
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ZombieVito
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by ZombieVito » Sat Dec 14, 2013 5:23 pm
Just to see if we are on the same page.
For me 3rd suppression = his first form that we saw. Is that the form you are referring to? He did clearly powered up in that one.
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Kaboom
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by Kaboom » Sat Dec 14, 2013 5:36 pm
Zombie wrote:Just to see if we are on the same page.
For me 3rd suppression = his first form that we saw. Is that the form you are referring to? He did clearly powered up in that one.
Ah, yes, it is. I've always preferred a simpler "1st-2nd-3rd-True" motif for referencing Freeza's forms.
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Kakashi
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by Kakashi » Sun Dec 15, 2013 12:40 pm
Birus power level
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DBZGTKOSDH
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by DBZGTKOSDH » Sun Dec 15, 2013 12:50 pm
Kakashi wrote:Birus power level
I have him at 100.000.000.000.000.000.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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Godo
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by Godo » Sun Dec 15, 2013 2:20 pm
I think that 70,000,000,000 sounds reasonable.
Considering some old-timey lists (out of the funk regarding levels) which place Ultimate Gohan around 25,000,000,000, we could have SSJ Vegetto at 60,000,000,000 and still make Birus power the strongest they have felt ever.
Anyone below Vegetto couldn't have grown that enormously, meaning that Goku's max power in the Buu arc compared to Gohan's would be 10,000,000,000 (max).
Make SSJ3 Goku grow to the triple to 30,000,000,000, making him the strongest fighter, and he is still no match.
SSJ God would make Goku around 55,000,000,000 which fits well by my standards.
Either way, setting a power level on Birus is IMO not necessary.
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Kakashi
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by Kakashi » Sun Dec 15, 2013 2:36 pm
Godo wrote:I think that 70,000,000,000 sounds reasonable.
Considering some old-timey lists (out of the funk regarding levels) which place Ultimate Gohan around 25,000,000,000, we could have SSJ Vegetto at 60,000,000,000 and still make Birus power the strongest they have felt ever.
Anyone below Vegetto couldn't have grown that enormously, meaning that Goku's max power in the Buu arc compared to Gohan's would be 10,000,000,000 (max).
Make SSJ3 Goku grow to the triple to 30,000,000,000, making him the strongest fighter, and he is still no match.
SSJ God would make Goku around 55,000,000,000 which fits well by my standards.
Either way, setting a power level on Birus is IMO not necessary.
Too low
I have him slightly stronger than SSjin2 Vegetto and in the low quadrillions
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Kakashi
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by Kakashi » Sun Dec 15, 2013 2:38 pm
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Kakashi wrote:Birus power level
I have him at 100.000.000.000.000.000.
You have Birus > SSjin 4 Gogeta? Lol
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DBZGTKOSDH
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by DBZGTKOSDH » Sun Dec 15, 2013 2:47 pm
Kakashi wrote:DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Kakashi wrote:Birus power level
I have him at 100.000.000.000.000.000.
You have Birus > SSjin 4 Gogeta? Lol
Yes. Nothing says which one is the strongest, so it's entirely opinion-based.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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ZombieVito
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by ZombieVito » Sun Dec 15, 2013 2:48 pm
I have Birusu 2.5 times stronger than SSJ2 Vegetto.
250,000,000,000,000