Nice work I'd say. Looking forward for the next arcs.GreatSaiyaman123 wrote: ↑Sun Dec 19, 2021 6:13 pm So, this is my definitive format for power levels. Borrowed it from someone else from another forum. It’s pretty much a power levels guide, with little pictures of each character and explanations for each number with sources. Only did the Saiyan Saga and 2/3s of the Freeza Saga this far, but I plan to do all of Dragon Ball minus Heroes which I’ve never watched in my life.
Here’s the list. I’ll make a new post every time I finish a saga. I think this approach is better for discussion than dropping a whole list most people won’t even bother to read.
Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
The more I think about it, the less I believe it myself too really.Koitsukai wrote: ↑Tue Nov 23, 2021 8:44 am No, the opposite was implied, actually, with GT having base Goku beat stronger versions of Cell and Freeza at the same time without breaking a sweat, and there are filler episodes that I'm forgetting that surely imply base Goku > Freeza. There's still people not buying Beerus' statement.
I, myself, prior to 2013 was dead sure SS would've been overkill.
11 years to train to get a 40x power level increase isn't anything too drastic given Gokuu got nearly 20x stronger training with Kaio for 5 months, and over 11x stronger training on a 100x gravity spaceship for 6 days.
I forgot Daiz 7 made that statement actually. Though in their defense, base Gotenks did do worse than Majin Vegeta against Fat Buu, but yeah, it sounds really weird.GreatSaiyaman123 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 1:34 pm Though even guidebooks themselves have some weird stuff that don't make a lot of sense. Daizenshuu 7 claiming Gotenks didn't surpass Vegeta until after training in the Rosat is a famous example. I have no idea where the people who wrote this entry got this idea from. Probably filler.
I think you could try your hand at making a list slowly. Lot of people do their lists on Google Docs, maybe you could do one saga at a time. I'm doing a very fancy list there with images and explanations and all. Only did the Saiyan Saga though, and haven't touched the list on a couple weeks.
I don't really like to hang on multipliers because they're mostly plot based. If I see something doesn't work then I change it, even if it's just for one saga.
Anyway, as the name suggests SSJGSSJ is SSJ stacked on top of SSJG, so it should be 50x or whathever SSJ1 multiplier you use at the time. SSJG seems to lose it's potency after the ritual: In BoGs SSJG Goku is stronger than a hypothetical SSJ3 Vegetto, but in the ToP Kefla is far above SSJG Goku without even transforming. A fatigued SSJG Goku sure, but she still have even Blue Goku a hard time and made him go UI Sign for the second time. This is probably because Goku had already absorbed SSJG into his lower forms, so the form doesn't offer much of a boost anymore.
Goku doesn't absorb SSJG's power in the manga, but the fight with Hit also suggests some puny multipliers.
Don't ever expect my list to be anywhere near the quality of yours, if it ever even comes to existence.
This is where I have deviate from you regarding multipliers, since I am kind of a simp for them. Even though I do agree with your explanation.
Yeah, I kinda came to a similar conclusion with SSG, the multiplier becomes less as you "absorb" the God Ki mastery or whatever into your base form.
I have to disagree with a few of these since SSGSSE is likely 20x SSGSS scaling off Gokuu, at least in the anime.Hugo Boss wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:48 pm For me the manga implies there is a huge difference between SS3 and SSG and a not so drastic difference between SSG and SSGSS. I suggest you check Goku vs. Toppo in the manga when you have the time.
I would say it’s more or less something like this:
SSG: SS x50
SSGSS: SSG x2
SSGSS Evolution: SSGSS x4
Ultra Ego/Instinct: SSG x50
SSGSS itself is 5~10x in the manga, and likely 50x in the anime.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
Rewatched the Broly movie the other day, and I'd like to do some rough relative scaling of Goku, Vegeta, and Broly.
To avoid confusion and for the sake of simplicity, I'll just use the Broly by the end of the movie. Cause his growth is kind of , like the entirety of Super itself. I'll also be assuming Goku and Vegeta are the same powers.
Ikari Broly = SSGSS Goku/Vegeta
base Broly = SSG Goku/Vegeta
so after Goku turned SSB, Ikari Broly sort of plateaued, but he did well enough to pressure SSB Goku that they could be considered even.
In terms of multipliers, if we go by the highballed manga statement, SSGSS is 10x SSG. Broly's Ikari, being pretty much the "Ultimate Oozaru" form, would assume to be also a consistent 10x boost.
So base Broly would be equal to SSG at that point. Using another multiplier for SSB would mean base Broly could be anywhere between 2x weaker to 5x stronger.
SSGSS Gogeta > SS Gogeta >= SSFP Broly > SS Broly >= base Gogeta > SSGSS Goku/Vegeta
Please challenge me on this one if you disagree, but I do believe SS Broly is actually a 500x multiplier instead of 50x, as under the condition he transformed from, he probably stacked Ikari on top of it.
Base Gogeta basically does not have screentime, all he does is dodges Broly's ki blast and goes SS1.
Going by my "Ikari Broly = SSGSS Goku/Vegeta" statement above, it means SS Broly is 50x stronger than the SSB's individually. Gogeta did not have difficulty dodging Broly's ki blasts and was smirking the entire time, but he also did not bother to go into the offensive before turning SS1. (Yeah, I'm also trying to extrapolate a fusion mutliplier from this) It's simplest to assume base Gogeta is equal to SS Broly, if not SS Broly being slightly higher. Hell, the soundtrack literally shouted "CHOU BURORIIII. GOJITAAAA"
SS Gogeta vs SS Broly was pretty one-sided. 50x bitch.
SS Gogeta vs SSFP Broly lasted what, 4 punches? Also basically no screentime, but I'm going to assume they're even, if not SS1 Gogeta being slightly above (he didn't react as much to Broly's punches iirc).
Broly's SSFP mutliplier is decided based on where I put base Gogeta, where the weaker base Gogeta is, the weaker the LSS mutliplier is. Since I put them as equals, LSS, would actually be another 50x on top of SS. So literally, SS Squared.
And no, I don't subscribe to the belief that he needed SSB to finish Broly, he just wanted to do it efficiently (and it would've been strange to not show Gogeta in his highest form for the climax of the movie from an artistic standpoint let's be honest). SS2, assuming Gogeta can do it quickly, would've been enough, if not SSG for sure.
Not to mention Gogeta didn't want to kill Broly until the very end where he didn't really have a choice, which basically confirms he was massively holding back during SSB, not unlike SS1 Vegito vs Buuhan in the past. I also doubt that Kamehameha at the end for the finisher he was going all out as well, just enough to do the job without shattering another dimension for the 4th time.
With the texts outta the way, I'll get some numbers:
Ikari = 10x base
SS Broly = 500x base Broly
SSFP Broly = 25,000 base Broly
SSG = 10x SS3 (or 80x SS1)
I know the movie kind of implies it's 10x SS1, like some of you have pointed out as well. But for charitability sake, I'll assume base Broly got 8x stronger within those seconds in base on top of the Ikari form. I mean, what's 8x when he got literally more than 50x earlier right?
SSB = 10x SSG
This also means:
SSB = 40,000x base
Gogeta = 2 million times Goku/Vegeta
(I'm wary to also state Gotenks gets the same multiplier, I'll have to decide if he does when/if I make my list and get to the Buu saga).
Fun fact: I also realized that Broly's Ikari form is an ingenius stealthy way to sort of make Super Saiyan 4 canon.
To avoid confusion and for the sake of simplicity, I'll just use the Broly by the end of the movie. Cause his growth is kind of , like the entirety of Super itself. I'll also be assuming Goku and Vegeta are the same powers.
Ikari Broly = SSGSS Goku/Vegeta
base Broly = SSG Goku/Vegeta
so after Goku turned SSB, Ikari Broly sort of plateaued, but he did well enough to pressure SSB Goku that they could be considered even.
In terms of multipliers, if we go by the highballed manga statement, SSGSS is 10x SSG. Broly's Ikari, being pretty much the "Ultimate Oozaru" form, would assume to be also a consistent 10x boost.
So base Broly would be equal to SSG at that point. Using another multiplier for SSB would mean base Broly could be anywhere between 2x weaker to 5x stronger.
SSGSS Gogeta > SS Gogeta >= SSFP Broly > SS Broly >= base Gogeta > SSGSS Goku/Vegeta
Please challenge me on this one if you disagree, but I do believe SS Broly is actually a 500x multiplier instead of 50x, as under the condition he transformed from, he probably stacked Ikari on top of it.
Base Gogeta basically does not have screentime, all he does is dodges Broly's ki blast and goes SS1.
Going by my "Ikari Broly = SSGSS Goku/Vegeta" statement above, it means SS Broly is 50x stronger than the SSB's individually. Gogeta did not have difficulty dodging Broly's ki blasts and was smirking the entire time, but he also did not bother to go into the offensive before turning SS1. (Yeah, I'm also trying to extrapolate a fusion mutliplier from this) It's simplest to assume base Gogeta is equal to SS Broly, if not SS Broly being slightly higher. Hell, the soundtrack literally shouted "CHOU BURORIIII. GOJITAAAA"
SS Gogeta vs SS Broly was pretty one-sided. 50x bitch.
SS Gogeta vs SSFP Broly lasted what, 4 punches? Also basically no screentime, but I'm going to assume they're even, if not SS1 Gogeta being slightly above (he didn't react as much to Broly's punches iirc).
Broly's SSFP mutliplier is decided based on where I put base Gogeta, where the weaker base Gogeta is, the weaker the LSS mutliplier is. Since I put them as equals, LSS, would actually be another 50x on top of SS. So literally, SS Squared.
And no, I don't subscribe to the belief that he needed SSB to finish Broly, he just wanted to do it efficiently (and it would've been strange to not show Gogeta in his highest form for the climax of the movie from an artistic standpoint let's be honest). SS2, assuming Gogeta can do it quickly, would've been enough, if not SSG for sure.
Not to mention Gogeta didn't want to kill Broly until the very end where he didn't really have a choice, which basically confirms he was massively holding back during SSB, not unlike SS1 Vegito vs Buuhan in the past. I also doubt that Kamehameha at the end for the finisher he was going all out as well, just enough to do the job without shattering another dimension for the 4th time.
With the texts outta the way, I'll get some numbers:
Ikari = 10x base
SS Broly = 500x base Broly
SSFP Broly = 25,000 base Broly
SSG = 10x SS3 (or 80x SS1)
I know the movie kind of implies it's 10x SS1, like some of you have pointed out as well. But for charitability sake, I'll assume base Broly got 8x stronger within those seconds in base on top of the Ikari form. I mean, what's 8x when he got literally more than 50x earlier right?
SSB = 10x SSG
This also means:
SSB = 40,000x base
Gogeta = 2 million times Goku/Vegeta
(I'm wary to also state Gotenks gets the same multiplier, I'll have to decide if he does when/if I make my list and get to the Buu saga).
Fun fact: I also realized that Broly's Ikari form is an ingenius stealthy way to sort of make Super Saiyan 4 canon.
Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
You don’t have to necessarily follow anime’s logic. My assessment is based purely on what the manga conveys. We have at least confirmation that SSG is much more than 10% of SSGSS and based on how SSGSS wasn’t that much more effective than SSG against Toppo, I think anything around 50% is fair enough.
SSGSS Evolution is entirely arbitrary as we don’t have anyone to compare with it in regards to percentages. Though I would argue it’s more effective than two SSGSS level fighters combined, as Goku and Hit didn’t leave much impression on Jiren as Vegeta did.
SSGSS Evolution is entirely arbitrary as we don’t have anyone to compare with it in regards to percentages. Though I would argue it’s more effective than two SSGSS level fighters combined, as Goku and Hit didn’t leave much impression on Jiren as Vegeta did.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
Blue being only 2 times stronger than SSG seems way too low. Especially if you include Completed Blue in there which is confirmed to be a big boost from normal Blue.Hugo Boss wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:48 pmFor me the manga implies there is a huge difference between SS3 and SSG and a not so drastic difference between SSG and SSGSS. I suggest you check Goku vs. Toppo in the manga when you have the time.Ultimate_Nova_X wrote: ↑Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:47 am I don't have the galaxy brain to make a Super list, but do we have a consensus on the multipliers of SSG and SSGSS?
I would say it’s more or less something like this:
SSG: SS x50
SSGSS: SSG x2
SSGSS Evolution: SSGSS x4
Ultra Ego/Instinct: SSG x50
And yes, the manga implies a big boost between SS3 and SSG but the Broly film doesn't.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
Roshi was pretty much retired at that point in the series while Chaozu was still one of the active fighters, even if he was the lesser of them. The fact Roshi even is in the 100 range is pretty impressive already given how outclassed he was by the end of the first series.Koitsukai wrote: ↑Mon Dec 20, 2021 9:28 am I agree mostly, my only grievance is that I wouldn't say Roshi was weaker than Chaozu. I doubt that line you brought up meant to include him but just Goku, Ten, Yamcha and Krilin. He might have problems with Chaozu's magic but he is smart enough and can probably bypass it like Krilin did.
I like the official numbers for the kamehameha, showing it doubles -and then some- the power of the user. But that seems to have been dropped, or was he actually around 4,000 after the taxating KKx3, went up to 12,000 to fight the Galic Gun back and the KHH put him at 24,000? and I see you have Fatigued Goku at 4,000, as well.
This would also have to be applied to what happened on Namek, with the KKx20+KHH, but I don't think it would work. Or maybe for users that strong the attack no longer doubles their power.
Let us know when the next part of your power list is out
There's a lot of discussion about the amplification power of the Kamehameha. I think the 2.22x thing was definitely dropped because that would mean a SSJ1's Kamehameha is stronger than a SSJ2... That makes no sense.
The Kamehameha is described as gathering latent power within the body and firing it. So the power of a full power blast is simply the amount of Ki the fighter wasn't employing on hand to hand before. So Goku's power would be multiplied because his body and Ki weren't as attuned, but after that he kinda closes this gap. A well charged Ki blast will always pack more power than a punch, but the gap may vary.
In other words, it's simply inconsistent.
Definitely below Kaioshin going by the hierarchy. I don't think he needs to be above Piccolo though. I think Android 16 level is a good placement for him.Koitsukai wrote: ↑Tue Dec 21, 2021 7:11 pm How strong is Dai Kaio sama supposed to be? SS Goku and Paikuhan sure made him nervous, at least to the possibility of having to train them. So he can't be above that.
So, is he in android 17 and 18's realm? above that? Super Vegeta material? below the androids??
It's definitely a pretty complicated format, which is why it's taking me so long. I'm pretty lazy too, so sometimes I go weeks without touching thisZombieVito wrote: ↑Thu Dec 23, 2021 2:16 am I like the format although I will never do it myself since I'm lazy lol.
Not really a fan of not using official power levels but I understand why some wouldn't use them.
I tried to use as many official power levels as possible, even if I had to reinterpret them sometimes (Like when 4,000 is Nappa's initial effort even though his power level is always 8,000 or Piccolo only being at 3,500 when firing his best attacks). A couple of them end up not fitting though, but I'm not really bothered. The way I see it, the official power levels are more estimatives than precise figures. Look at how 8,000+ Goku gets rounded to just 8,000 for example. Plus I always go back and forth on Dodoria and Zarbon's levels anyway.
I don't see it. They were pretty even most of the fight, and whenever Gogeta got the upperhand Broly came out unscathed.Ultimate_Nova_X wrote: ↑Sat Dec 25, 2021 4:53 pm SS Gogeta vs SS Broly was pretty one-sided. 50x bitch.
Here's what I got from them:
SSJB Gogeta >>> LSSJ Broly >>> SSJ Broly = SSJ Gogeta >>> Base Gogeta >>> SSJB Goku/Vegeta > FP Ikari Broly >>> SSJG Goku > Initial Ikari Broly >>> SSJG Vegeta (Suppressed) >>> Broly (Adapting) >> SSJ Goku/Vegeta >>> Broly > Base Goku/Vegeta
I think it's pretty easy to reconcile those two statements. Raditz being 3x stronger than Goku and Piccolo already made him a god compared to them. Even Recoome isn't even twice as strong as Saiyan Saga Vegeta and there's lot of stomping gaps in the middle of that.ZombieVito wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 1:42 am And yes, the manga implies a big boost between SS3 and SSG but the Broly film doesn't.
Not to mention, Broly's power was constantly rising. For Vegeta to skip SSJ2 entirely and go straight to God could mean Broly was already that strong.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
I see SSFP Broly as the one somewhat equal to SS Gogeta, not SS Broly. Gogeta could have been holding back even in a lower form, and I do subscribe to this. Or that SSFP doesn't actually offer a power increase, but a mastery of the form, exactly like SSFP pre-Cell games Goku and Gohan.GreatSaiyaman123 wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 6:22 pm I don't see it. They were pretty even most of the fight, and whenever Gogeta got the upperhand Broly came out unscathed.
Here's what I got from them:
SSJB Gogeta >>> LSSJ Broly >>> SSJ Broly = SSJ Gogeta >>> Base Gogeta >>> SSJB Goku/Vegeta > FP Ikari Broly >>> SSJG Goku > Initial Ikari Broly >>> SSJG Vegeta (Suppressed) >>> Broly (Adapting) >> SSJ Goku/Vegeta >>> Broly > Base Goku/Vegeta
I'm not as favourable to the latter idea personally but it's also a fair one given that Toriyama didn't want that green form and it was snuck in without his consent.
I don't think SS Gogeta was onscreen for more than 20 seconds, so any interpretation is probably fair game.
Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
I think it’s hard to justify anything bigger than that when Goku and Toppo were fighting evenly when Goku used SSG and Goku didn’t overwhelm Toppo with SSGSS, even if it’s the mastered version. It took Toppo to only get serious and hit Goku off guard.ZombieVito wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 1:42 amBlue being only 2 times stronger than SSG seems way too low. Especially if you include Completed Blue in there which is confirmed to be a big boost from normal Blue.Hugo Boss wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:48 pmFor me the manga implies there is a huge difference between SS3 and SSG and a not so drastic difference between SSG and SSGSS. I suggest you check Goku vs. Toppo in the manga when you have the time.Ultimate_Nova_X wrote: ↑Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:47 am I don't have the galaxy brain to make a Super list, but do we have a consensus on the multipliers of SSG and SSGSS?
I would say it’s more or less something like this:
SSG: SS x50
SSGSS: SSG x2
SSGSS Evolution: SSGSS x4
Ultra Ego/Instinct: SSG x50
And yes, the manga implies a big boost between SS3 and SSG but the Broly film doesn't.
I think Blue normally operates at 70%, which is significantly better than SSG’s 50%, but still far behind what 100% would accomplish, even if it doesn’t look like that different when Goku fights against Toppo.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
Zamasu's fusion boost is confirmed to be big by official sources so it can't be that low going from SSB to CSSB.Hugo Boss wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 9:23 pmI think it’s hard to justify anything bigger than that when Goku and Toppo were fighting evenly when Goku used SSG and Goku didn’t overwhelm Toppo with SSGSS, even if it’s the mastered version. It took Toppo to only get serious and hit Goku off guard.ZombieVito wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 1:42 amBlue being only 2 times stronger than SSG seems way too low. Especially if you include Completed Blue in there which is confirmed to be a big boost from normal Blue.Hugo Boss wrote: ↑Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:48 pm
For me the manga implies there is a huge difference between SS3 and SSG and a not so drastic difference between SSG and SSGSS. I suggest you check Goku vs. Toppo in the manga when you have the time.
I would say it’s more or less something like this:
SSG: SS x50
SSGSS: SSG x2
SSGSS Evolution: SSGSS x4
Ultra Ego/Instinct: SSG x50
And yes, the manga implies a big boost between SS3 and SSG but the Broly film doesn't.
I think Blue normally operates at 70%, which is significantly better than SSG’s 50%, but still far behind what 100% would accomplish, even if it doesn’t look like that different when Goku fights against Toppo.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
Does anyone have an idea how strong was Buuccolo and Buutenks?
Could Gohan have defeated Buuccolo?
Does Buuccolo prove that Piccolo is still above the kids even in SS1? Which implies the kids is far behind their fathers and pre-Ultimate Gohan as Dabura implied their base forms was above Piccolo earlier.
Could Gohan have defeated Buuccolo?
Does Buuccolo prove that Piccolo is still above the kids even in SS1? Which implies the kids is far behind their fathers and pre-Ultimate Gohan as Dabura implied their base forms was above Piccolo earlier.
Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
Boo's absorption only seems to simply add someone's power to his own (except when it's the Kaioshin, that gets more complicated), so Gotenks would roughly double his power while Piccolo would only be a relatively tiny increase, probably well under 10%.Ultimate_Nova_X wrote: ↑Tue Dec 28, 2021 11:33 amDoes anyone have an idea how strong was Buuccolo and Buutenks?
Yes, Goku says as much when Gotenks' power wears off and Piccolo becomes the dominant absorb-ee.
Chapter: 502 (DBZ 308), P10.4-5
Goku: “Hahha—ah! Piccolo’s coming out strong now! Looks like the Fused squirts have returned to normal! You ran out of time! Tooo—oo bad! Your power’s fallen a whole lot. Cheh…I’m a little disappointed. This way, Gohan will be able to beat you even on his own…”
It probably doesn't "prove" anything, but it could be taken to imply almost whatever you want. For what it's worth, the de-fused kids are only in their base forms when we see them inside Boo a short time later.Ultimate_Nova_X wrote: ↑Tue Dec 28, 2021 11:33 amDoes Buuccolo prove that Piccolo is still above the kids even in SS1? Which implies the kids is far behind their fathers and pre-Ultimate Gohan as Dabura implied their base forms was above Piccolo earlier.
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Powar Levuls: Main Series | Movies and Specials | GT
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
I think Boo accesses the full power of a person when he absorbs them. That's the only explanation I can think of as to why Gotenks lasted the full 30 minutes as a Super Saiyan 3.
Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
Going from 70% to 100% seems to be a reasonable large gap in my opinion and makes more sense if you consider they are the same form, with just a varying degree of efficiency. That’s of course only my opinion, based on Goku vs. Toppo and Vegeta vs. Toppo. You could still say it’s something like 30%, as SSG is at least above 10%.ZombieVito wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 9:43 pmZamasu's fusion boost is confirmed to be big by official sources so it can't be that low going from SSB to CSSB.Hugo Boss wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 9:23 pmI think it’s hard to justify anything bigger than that when Goku and Toppo were fighting evenly when Goku used SSG and Goku didn’t overwhelm Toppo with SSGSS, even if it’s the mastered version. It took Toppo to only get serious and hit Goku off guard.ZombieVito wrote: ↑Mon Dec 27, 2021 1:42 am
Blue being only 2 times stronger than SSG seems way too low. Especially if you include Completed Blue in there which is confirmed to be a big boost from normal Blue.
And yes, the manga implies a big boost between SS3 and SSG but the Broly film doesn't.
I think Blue normally operates at 70%, which is significantly better than SSG’s 50%, but still far behind what 100% would accomplish, even if it doesn’t look like that different when Goku fights against Toppo.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
As others have said, Goku says Gohan should be capable of beating Piccolo-Boo. The boost Piccolo offers to a SSJ3+ fighter is little to none.Ultimate_Nova_X wrote: ↑Tue Dec 28, 2021 11:33 am Does anyone have an idea how strong was Buuccolo and Buutenks?
Could Gohan have defeated Buuccolo?
Does Buuccolo prove that Piccolo is still above the kids even in SS1? Which implies the kids is far behind their fathers and pre-Ultimate Gohan as Dabura implied their base forms was above Piccolo earlier.
When Kibitoshin explains his backstory, he says that South Kaioshin was the strongest Kaioshin of his generation. Yet we see Boo take Dai Kaioshin’s appearance after absorbing both Kaioshins. This shows that Boo’s appearance isn’t just dictated by who’s the strongest in his body.
Also worth noting we get to see a Super Boo with only Piccolo absorbed later (Piccolo is the last guy Goku and Vegeta free from Boo’s body), and he looked quite different from the Buuccolo who had the defused boys.
Spoiler:
Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
But the Dai Kaioshin was the strongest, even if we don't take the Moro arc into account, he still fought Buff Buu and was absorbed, not beaten. I'm sure he'd do much better against the weaker Kid Buu than South Kaioshin.GreatSaiyaman123 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 30, 2021 4:30 pmAs others have said, Goku says Gohan should be capable of beating Piccolo-Boo. The boost Piccolo offers to a SSJ3+ fighter is little to none.Ultimate_Nova_X wrote: ↑Tue Dec 28, 2021 11:33 am Does anyone have an idea how strong was Buuccolo and Buutenks?
Could Gohan have defeated Buuccolo?
Does Buuccolo prove that Piccolo is still above the kids even in SS1? Which implies the kids is far behind their fathers and pre-Ultimate Gohan as Dabura implied their base forms was above Piccolo earlier.
When Kibitoshin explains his backstory, he says that South Kaioshin was the strongest Kaioshin of his generation. Yet we see Boo take Dai Kaioshin’s appearance after absorbing both Kaioshins. This shows that Boo’s appearance isn’t just dictated by who’s the strongest in his body.
Also worth noting we get to see a Super Boo with only Piccolo absorbed later (Piccolo is the last guy Goku and Vegeta free from Boo’s body), and he looked quite different from the Buuccolo who had the defused boys.Spoiler:
I guess he isn't part of Shin's generation given that he seemed to be of a higher rank and also much older.
Also, nice catch about pure Buuccolo. I guess the fingers and small details were additions of the children, considering Piccolo in the manga has 4 fingers.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
Didn't KibitoShin said South Kaioshin was the strongest out of the 5 Kaioshins?Koitsukai wrote: ↑Thu Dec 30, 2021 5:02 pmBut the Dai Kaioshin was the strongest, even if we don't take the Moro arc into account, he still fought Buff Buu and was absorbed, not beaten. I'm sure he'd do much better against the weaker Kid Buu than South Kaioshin.GreatSaiyaman123 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 30, 2021 4:30 pmAs others have said, Goku says Gohan should be capable of beating Piccolo-Boo. The boost Piccolo offers to a SSJ3+ fighter is little to none.Ultimate_Nova_X wrote: ↑Tue Dec 28, 2021 11:33 am Does anyone have an idea how strong was Buuccolo and Buutenks?
Could Gohan have defeated Buuccolo?
Does Buuccolo prove that Piccolo is still above the kids even in SS1? Which implies the kids is far behind their fathers and pre-Ultimate Gohan as Dabura implied their base forms was above Piccolo earlier.
When Kibitoshin explains his backstory, he says that South Kaioshin was the strongest Kaioshin of his generation. Yet we see Boo take Dai Kaioshin’s appearance after absorbing both Kaioshins. This shows that Boo’s appearance isn’t just dictated by who’s the strongest in his body.
Also worth noting we get to see a Super Boo with only Piccolo absorbed later (Piccolo is the last guy Goku and Vegeta free from Boo’s body), and he looked quite different from the Buuccolo who had the defused boys.Spoiler:
I guess he isn't part of Shin's generation given that he seemed to be of a higher rank and also much older.
Also, nice catch about pure Buuccolo. I guess the fingers and small details were additions of the children, considering Piccolo in the manga has 4 fingers.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
Do we know it's actually addition? It seems to be generally taken for granted.Kaboom wrote: ↑Tue Dec 28, 2021 1:34 pm Does anyone have an idea how strong was Buuccolo and Buutenks?
Boo's absorption only seems to simply add someone's power to his own (except when it's the Kaioshin, that gets more complicated), so Gotenks would roughly double his power while Piccolo would only be a relatively tiny increase, probably well under 10%.
This also means Gohan is slightly under 2x stronger than SS3 Gotenks and Super Buu.
I could totally remember this wrong, but Gohan wasn't much weaker than Buutenks, they were actually pretty evenly matched at the start of their fight. Half the reason he lost the fight was because of the psychological manipulation that what he was fighting was his own.
Damn, completely forgot about that line.Kaboom wrote: ↑Tue Dec 28, 2021 1:34 pm Yes, Goku says as much when Gotenks' power wears off and Piccolo becomes the dominant absorb-ee.
Chapter: 502 (DBZ 308), P10.4-5
Goku: “Hahha—ah! Piccolo’s coming out strong now! Looks like the Fused squirts have returned to normal! You ran out of time! Tooo—oo bad! Your power’s fallen a whole lot. Cheh…I’m a little disappointed. This way, Gohan will be able to beat you even on his own…”
I would assume Buu could still access their SS1 powers. Otherwise, it'd imply he could only use base Gotenks powers, who's weaker than SS2 Majin Vegeta pre-RoSaT, and I doubt they're much stronger than SS3 Goku in base even post-RoSaT.
These days I don't have time to read manga anymore, but damn, good catch!GreatSaiyaman123 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 30, 2021 4:30 pm As others have said, Goku says Gohan should be capable of beating Piccolo-Boo. The boost Piccolo offers to a SSJ3+ fighter is little to none.
When Kibitoshin explains his backstory, he says that South Kaioshin was the strongest Kaioshin of his generation. Yet we see Boo take Dai Kaioshin’s appearance after absorbing both Kaioshins. This shows that Boo’s appearance isn’t just dictated by who’s the strongest in his body.
Also worth noting we get to see a Super Boo with only Piccolo absorbed later (Piccolo is the last guy Goku and Vegeta free from Boo’s body), and he looked quite different from the Buuccolo who had the defused boys.Spoiler:
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
Pretty sure the psychological manipulation angle was something the anime added. In the manga, Boo is just plain stronger than Gohan by a whole lot.Ultimate_Nova_X wrote: ↑Sun Jan 02, 2022 7:15 pm Do we know it's actually addition? It seems to be generally taken for granted.
This also means Gohan is slightly under 2x stronger than SS3 Gotenks and Super Buu.
I could totally remember this wrong, but Gohan wasn't much weaker than Buutenks, they were actually pretty evenly matched at the start of their fight. Half the reason he lost the fight was because of the psychological manipulation that what he was fighting was his own.
My Official Unofficial Battle Power list (in-progress: updated 11/8/2022—FREEZA ARC COMPLETED)
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
Did the Garlic Jr. filler saga and about half of the Androids Saga. Would've done more, but this is pretty tiresome. Link is in my signature now.
By the way, here's the original list that inspired mine. The formats are pretty close obviously, but the numbers are quite different.
By the way, here's the original list that inspired mine. The formats are pretty close obviously, but the numbers are quite different.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
So I guess you don't believe Beerus line about Freeza > Base Goku.GreatSaiyaman123 wrote: ↑Fri Jan 07, 2022 1:05 am Did the Garlic Jr. filler saga and about half of the Androids Saga. Would've done more, but this is pretty tiresome. Link is in my signature now.
By the way, here's the original list that inspired mine. The formats are pretty close obviously, but the numbers are quite different.