Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Grand Marshal 1 · Post by **Grand Marshal 1** » Sat Jul 25, 2020 4:44 pm

Koitsukai wrote: ↑Sat Jul 25, 2020 2:15 pm I don't suscribe as hard as other people to the idea of Goten and Gohan being equals, I disagree that the only difference between them is Gohan having SS2. I believe Gohan never went all out against his 7-year-old brother, just like Goku used to do before that year in the ROSAT. For example I don't think SS Goten would've fought as well as SS Gohan vs Dabura (experience aside).

Vegeta and Trunks either. While sparring, Trunks could only graze Vegeta who sat him down on the floor with one hit and made him cry too. Trunks also says he has no chance against his father.

However, I do think they are incredibly strong for their age and they aren't far from their elders, I'd say if Gohan and Vegeta are in the 60-70M, Goten and Trunks might be around the 40-45 M

Always believed that the kids were Namek 1st form Freeza level

But that comes from SS Gotenks ≈ SS3 Goku and using the fusion formula.

Koitsukai · Post by **Koitsukai** » Sat Jul 25, 2020 4:50 pm

Grand Marshal 1 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 25, 2020 4:44 pm
Koitsukai wrote: ↑Sat Jul 25, 2020 2:15 pm I don't suscribe as hard as other people to the idea of Goten and Gohan being equals, I disagree that the only difference between them is Gohan having SS2. I believe Gohan never went all out against his 7-year-old brother, just like Goku used to do before that year in the ROSAT. For example I don't think SS Goten would've fought as well as SS Gohan vs Dabura (experience aside).

Vegeta and Trunks either. While sparring, Trunks could only graze Vegeta who sat him down on the floor with one hit and made him cry too. Trunks also says he has no chance against his father.

However, I do think they are incredibly strong for their age and they aren't far from their elders, I'd say if Gohan and Vegeta are in the 60-70M, Goten and Trunks might be around the 40-45 M
Always believed that the kids were Namek 1st form Freeza level

But that comes from SS Gotenks ≈ SS3 Goku and using the fusion formula.

I think that is a hell of a lowball, to be honest. 500,000 PL is too little for Buu arc characters, I think that would be too low even for some earthlings.

despayeeto593 · Post by **despayeeto593** » Sat Jul 25, 2020 9:44 pm

So, these are my updated power levels for Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z.

I was going to include Super as well, but that was before I realized how inconsistent the scaling is for that series, so I'm going to ignore it.

Multipliers

Spoiler:

Dragon Ball

Spoiler:

Saiyan and Freeza Sagas

Spoiler:

Cell and Buu Sagas

Spoiler:

Mireya · Post by **Mireya** » Wed Jul 29, 2020 5:53 am

Very good levels for part 1. Small notes:

I think I'd keep old Piccolo at 220 since that's right in the middle between his old and young powa.

I'd be a little pressed not to have 23rd Budokai Tenshinhan as above Popo. I think the fact that Kami and Popo still trained them all for the Saiyans implies the Earthlings, Tenshinhan included, had still some ways to go. But yeah, I get that it's hard to keep Tenshinhan as >> 260 while << Popo, who is in turns << Kami, who shouldn't be even near the 400s threshold. There is simply not enough space, so I understand.

If going by the "earthlings were suppressed" rule, I'd apply that only to Tenshinhan. Kuririn told Bulma to measure his BP and he seemed satisfied with the result, not adding up anything like "and that's not even my Full Power". I think you can argue Tenshinhan was more in-tune with Ki and its specialties, also implied by him being the one who seemed to catch up on what Goku was doing against King Chappa (concealing all his Ki) the most.

ZombieVito · Post by **ZombieVito** » Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:23 pm

I would like to add that Raditz was never said to be equal to the Saibaimen. Only that they rivaled him so 1,500 fits.

despayeeto593 · Post by **despayeeto593** » Thu Jul 30, 2020 6:05 pm

ZombieVito wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:23 pm I would like to add that Raditz was never said to be equal to the Saibaimen. Only that they rivaled him so 1,500 fits.

I think that Raditz shouldn't be stronger than enraged Gohan or the Makankosappo, which is why I went with 1,200.

ZombieVito · Post by **ZombieVito** » Thu Jul 30, 2020 6:19 pm

despayeeto593 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 6:05 pm I think that Raditz shouldn't be stronger than enraged Gohan or the Makankosappo, which is why I went with 1,200.

Why?

Kuririn's Kienzan wasn't stronger than Freeza and it still cut his tail. Same would have happened to Nappa's head.

An attack doesn't have to be stronger than you to damage you if it gets you off guard.

LightBing · Post by **LightBing** » Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:05 pm

ZombieVito wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:23 pm I would like to add that Raditz was never said to be equal to the Saibaimen. Only that they rivaled him so 1,500 fits.

That's a 20% gap which is huge, I don't see Nappa or Vegeta(can't remember who said the rival line) making such an evaluation, specially since they are so reliant on power levels.

I usually put Raditz at 1250 just to give him the nod over the Saibamen, but even at equal or slightly inferior power would be fine. Saibamen seem to simply be brute force, skill would prevail. I would give the win to Raditz without being damaged at all since he should have knowledge about them.

ZombieVito · Post by **ZombieVito** » Thu Aug 06, 2020 12:37 am

LightBing wrote: ↑Wed Aug 05, 2020 7:05 pm That's a 20% gap which is huge, I don't see Nappa or Vegeta(can't remember who said the rival line) making such an evaluation, specially since they are so reliant on power levels.

I usually put Raditz at 1250 just to give him the nod over the Saibamen, but even at equal or slightly inferior power would be fine. Saibamen seem to simply be brute force, skill would prevail. I would give the win to Raditz without being damaged at all since he should have knowledge about them.

Freeza and SS Goku had the same gap and the former kept up until he ran out of stamina.

Gaps aren't everything.

LightBing · Post by **LightBing** » Fri Aug 07, 2020 1:24 pm

ZombieVito wrote: Freeza and SS Goku had the same gap and the former kept up until he ran out of stamina.

Gaps aren't everything.

Those are guides numbers which leave a lot to be desired. For reference here's my analysis on gaps using only the manga, if you want to bother reading it all.

Spoiler:

Regardless, this isn't even about gaps. I checked the quote and Nappa says "going by power he rivals".
This is about language. 20% difference seems to me wrong with such a word choice. Slightly/moderately stronger or weaker would fit better.

Dragon Ball Daisuki · Post by **Dragon Ball Daisuki** » Wed Aug 12, 2020 1:14 pm

I’m sure this has been pointed out before, but a possible explanation for this discrepancy is that Goku’s stamina had fallen.

I believe Freeza commented that Goku’s power had dropped quite a bit after launching the 20-fold Kaiō-Ken (I believe in the anime he even commented that 1/3 of his power was too much for him).

If you imagine that Goku’s power had dropped 20% or so, from 3,000,000 to 2,500,000, that would place his SSJ power at 125,000,000, neatly putting him at pace with Freeza before the latter’s own stamina issues.

Limitless123 · Post by **Limitless123** » Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:47 pm

Dragon Ball Daisuki wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 1:14 pm I’m sure this has been pointed out before, but a possible explanation for this discrepancy is that Goku’s stamina had fallen.

I believe Freeza commented that Goku’s power had dropped quite a bit after launching the 20-fold Kaiō-Ken (I believe in the anime he even commented that 1/3 of his power was too much for him).

If you imagine that Goku’s power had dropped 20% or so, from 3,000,000 to 2,500,000, that would place his SSJ power at 125,000,000, neatly putting him at pace with Freeza before the latter’s own stamina issues.

There was a clear difference between Goku's stamina before and after transforming though. The little power he had left was barely enough for him to stand up, but he could clearly fly and fight with seemingly infinite stamina after becoming many times stronger. I'd say it's clear he's been healed when he transformed into a Super Saiyan.

Hugo Boss · Post by **Hugo Boss** » Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:56 pm

I guess this is one of my disagreements with the Daizenshuu powerlevels. As far as I remember, Goku and Freeza’s battle powers were very close and Freeza’s dropped quicker, much like what happened in the Golden Freeza movie.

Dragon Ball Daisuki · Post by **Dragon Ball Daisuki** » Wed Aug 12, 2020 11:07 pm

Limitless123 wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:47 pm
Dragon Ball Daisuki wrote: ↑Wed Aug 12, 2020 1:14 pm I’m sure this has been pointed out before, but a possible explanation for this discrepancy is that Goku’s stamina had fallen.

I believe Freeza commented that Goku’s power had dropped quite a bit after launching the 20-fold Kaiō-Ken (I believe in the anime he even commented that 1/3 of his power was too much for him).

If you imagine that Goku’s power had dropped 20% or so, from 3,000,000 to 2,500,000, that would place his SSJ power at 125,000,000, neatly putting him at pace with Freeza before the latter’s own stamina issues.
There was a clear difference between Goku's stamina before and after transforming though. The little power he had left was barely enough for him to stand up, but he could clearly fly and fight with seemingly infinite stamina after becoming many times stronger. I'd say it's clear he's been healed when he transformed into a Super Saiyan.

That’s a fair point - perhaps there’s some distinction between the state of Goku’s body and the amount of ki he can put out? Or, if you like, maybe Goku was still getting a feel for the form’s upper limit? He starts out at a level where he can be affected by ~70% Freeza’s ki blast, then gets overpowered by 100% Freeza initially, but as the battle goes on, he matches Freeza and then begins to overtake him post-Porunga wish. Just spit-ballin’ here.

despayeeto593 · Post by **despayeeto593** » Wed Sep 09, 2020 10:13 pm

That’s a fair point - perhaps there’s some distinction between the state of Goku’s body and the amount of ki he can put out? Or, if you like, maybe Goku was still getting a feel for the form’s upper limit? He starts out at a level where he can be affected by ~70% Freeza’s ki blast, then gets overpowered by 100% Freeza initially, but as the battle goes on, he matches Freeza and then begins to overtake him post-Porunga wish. Just spit-ballin’ here.

I like this idea, I think I'll start using it.

Noah · Post by **Noah** » Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:21 pm

Is it Cell Games SSJ2 Gohan > SSJ2 Vegeta (Pre Majin)?

Trachta10 · Post by **Trachta10** » Sat Sep 19, 2020 4:41 am

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10-second_barrier

I find it interesting that in Dragon Ball when Goku and Krilin made a race, Krilin run 100m in 10.4 seconds, Goku in 8 seconds and Master Roshi in 5.6 seconds, the human record is from Usain Bolt 9.58 seconds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_XzmhuDNN0

If you make a convertion to km/h they run
Master Roshi: 64.29 km/h
Goku: 45 km/h
Usian Bolt: 37.58 km/h
Krilin: 34.62 km/h

seeing the power levels of that moment, Goku is 42, Krilin 32, Master Roshi 75

their power levels seem to make sense with their speed, that means the power level of Usain Bolt is about 37

and if Master Roshi destroyed the Moon with 100 of power and the Moon has a mass of 7.349*10^22 which is 73,490,000,000,000,000,000,000 kilograms (1/81 of the Earth mass) that means you need a power level of 8100 to destoy the Earth.
The same power level of Goku after King Kai training.
To destroy the Sun you need a power level of 2,706,490,679 thats why when they throw powers like a Kamehameha to the Sun for kill an enemy they can not destroy the Sun.

So Usain Bolt can destroy 27,191,300,000,000,000,000,000 kilograms with his power if he want

Koitsukai · Post by **Koitsukai** » Sat Sep 19, 2020 2:35 pm

Noah wrote: ↑Thu Sep 17, 2020 5:21 pm Is it Cell Games SSJ2 Gohan > SSJ2 Vegeta (Pre Majin)?

It's up in the air, so it could be either way.

Vegeta downplayed Dabura (compared to at least Perfect Cell), so he must be at least stronger than that. Still a long way to go to catch SS2 Gohan, where I'd say pre-Majin Vegeta and initial SS2 Goku vs Yakon were.
My guess is Geets was pretty close to Gohan, then witnessed Goku also being close with just a glimpse of his power (or maybe even with Gohan), and went for the majin boost and finally surpassed Gohan.

PowerLevel Science · Post by **PowerLevel Science** » Thu Oct 01, 2020 9:59 am

OFFICIAL UNITS & SOURCES FOR POWER LEVELS:

Spoiler:

Mad Swami · Post by **Mad Swami** » Sun Oct 04, 2020 7:34 pm

Is Tien maybe about as strong as Frieza on Namek in the Cell saga? 120,000,00? Or around that at least?

He rushes to fight A17 and 18 despite Vegeta, Piccolo, and Trunks rushing the androids. Sure it could just be his character, not wanting to sit on the sidelines and not contribute, but he is treated as bad as the others. Not worse or anything. I am not saying he is their equal, but could Toriyama think Tien and Piccolo (Before Kami fusion) are relative in power?

I can't recall him being blown away by Piccolo's power or mentioning feeling dwarfed. That only happens later, when Piccolo refuses with Kami.

I don't know, could an Earthling like Tien reach that power in base without the use of the kikoho or the Shin Kikoho?

I would love Tien to be stronger than base Goku and Vegeta, but is that possible?

Kanzenshuu

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