Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[Kaboom]

Where do you guys have the base Saiyans during Boo saga?

In units of millions:

Goku: 80
Vegeta: 60
-- Bobbidi'd: 80
Gohan: 64
-- Ultimate'd: WHOA NELLY
Trunks: 32
Goten: 28

[RandomGuy96]

Where do you guys have the base Saiyans during Boo saga?

In units of millions:

Goku: 80
Vegeta: 60
-- Bobbidi'd: 80
Gohan: 64
-- Ultimate'd: WHOA NELLY
Trunks: 32
Goten: 28

Vegeta should be stronger than Gohan. He said "our battle powers are higher than his now". Did you mean to list Gohan as a 60 and Vegeta as a 64?

@RandomGuy96 @DanielSSJ

Gohan that close to pre Majin Vegeta? Vegeta was sure he could beat Dabra, no?

I believe Dabra's battle power was around 5 billion (or 2.5 billion if you think Gohan was just a SS). Gohan seemed more powerful than Dabra already, overpowering him in their hand on sword clash. He was losing because his skills were lacking and Dabra had a lot of magic tricks. Add slightly more power, and take away his rustiness, and Gohan should be able to manage a solid if not effortless win. That's basically what Vegeta vs Dabra would be.

[Kaboom]

Vegeta should be stronger than Gohan. He said "our battle powers are higher than his now". Did you mean to list Gohan as a 60 and Vegeta as a 64?

Maybe. I've been considering re-evaluating my Boo-arc numbers in light of that stuff. RIght now I'm assuming that Gohan's power kind of degraded from the top down, to satisfy what one of the Daizenshuu said about Gohan's battle power "not changing" since his boyhood. So even if he had an edge on Vegeta in base, his SS and especially SS2 powers may be noticeably weaker.

[apex_pretador]

I really, really like this. There's nothing wrong with my numbers, I'd say.

Since I've already debated with you and put my point what is wrong with these numbers, I'm not gonna do it again. I don't think I can convince you otherwise because

I really, really like this. There's nothing wrong with my numbers, I'd say.

However, I will post my own numbers for these beings:

Freeza = 60,000,000 (50%) , 36,000,000 (Post GD) , 96,000,000 (100%, injured) , 55,000,000 (No stamina)

Goku = 62,000,000 (x20) , 18000 (Post genki dama) , 4,000,000 (Zenkai) , 100,000,000 (SS)
SS trunks = 99,000,000
Mecha freeza = 30,000,000
King cold = 30,000,000

Future gohan = 70,000,000 (2 arms) , 96,000,000 (1 arm)
Future androids = 164,000,000 (#17) , 152,000,000 (future #18)
Yadrat Goku = 115,000,000

--- 3 years later ---
Goku = 150,000,000
Vegeta = 150,000,000 (Or a bit higher) , Tired = 65,000,000
Trunks = 130,000,000
Piccolo = 95,000,000
#19 = 20,000,000 , post vegeta = 60,000,000
Dr gero = 60,000,000 , post = 70,000,000

#17 = 190,000,000
#18 = 180,000,000
Cell = 156,000,000
Kamiccolo = 180,000,000 (weights), 190,000,000 (unweighted)
Cell (post) = 240,000,000
#16 = 241,000,000

Do you think Freeza wasn't at his best when he used his 100%? I think 100% means 100%.

Tell me how does he recover the 24 million points lost in surviving the spirit bomb and beatdown by SS goku when he was at 50%? Did goku give him a senzu? No that was cell.

So, his 24 million points remain lost unless going bulky heals him (Which doesn't)

Where do you guys have the base Saiyans during Boo saga?

Obviously in millions: (Rounded off for simplicity)

Goten / trunks = 8 - 8.5

Gohan = 11(pre training) , 14 (Budokai) , 17 (Cell games)

Vegeta = 17

Goku = 21

[Khin]

Where do you guys have the base Saiyans during Boo saga?

Goku : 85,000,000
Gohan : 70,000,000

Vegeta : 75,000,000
--- Majin : 85,000,000


Goten : 50,000,000
--- Post RoSaT : 70,000,000

Trunks : 52,00,000
--- Post RoSaT : 70,000,000

[Captain Space]

So, I guess less in terms of numbers and more in terms of comparison to past Cell/Buu saga characters, what do you guys think about the U6 arc saiyans' base and SSJ1?

Because I'm pretty sure what's happening is they've done with SSJ1 in regards to 2 and 3 what they previously did with Grade 2 and 3--i.e. surpassed those 'higher' forms in a more energy-efficient manner (a Toriyama interview from way back when around BoG's release hinted at something like this). And then they can turn their god ki on and off like a switch, i.e. intentionally activating the SSJ-with-god-power absorbed state Goku had during the latter parts of his fight with Beerus, and due to having greater control over it, that switch also happens to make them blue I guess. But (contrary to the movie version) it doesn't seem like their base or SSJ usually is on the god level.

So...where are they, then? Is base Vegeta stronger than SSJ Gohan, since Gohan knocked Tagoma around but Vegeta was able to completely ONE-PAAAAWNCH him? Or was that just that he was already weakened from fighting Gohan, or something? And if base Vegeta is stronger, is that because his training's come so far that he's above a low-end FPSSJ, or is it more that Gohan had degraded so much, or sort of a bit of both? Piccolo only seemed a little ahead of base Gohan in their sparring much, but maybe he wasn't going all-out since it was training, but...aah, I don't know.

[Khin]

The power scaling in Super is very messy at this point.You can put the them anywhere but they should be at least above Ginyu,First Form Freeza [Post Training] and SSJ3 Goku in BoG.

Minute: 17
Context: Whis provides highly detailed expository dialogue.
Whis: "Those two have just barely reached the level where they can sense the ki of a god. If that castle up there were the level of the gods, then their power is only about this high. They need to raise the level of their ki without becoming Super Saiyan. Otherwise, they won't be able to grow much stronger, since they won't be able to see the realm which lies ahead. Most likely, those two realize this themselves. After all, I never once told them not to become Super Saiyans."

If high battle power is required to sense Beerus and Whis' ki.Then Base Vegeta and Goku is stronger than SSJ3 Goku.

[Captain Space]

Hmm, that's a good point.

[kingkaiultraron]

Turns out I forgot some amazing characters who appeared in part 5 of Dragon Ball Broly.

part 5

God Satan: Immeasurable by the power of Infinite
Buff Roshi: 69 porn pics
Fat Billz: 0.006 (He is a warty mother fucker)
Silver Surfer: 7,000,000
Communist Majin Buu: 987654321
Atom Ant: Up and at 'em, Atom Ant!
Toguro 420%: Blaze Weed
Chiaotzu: Grahams Number by the power of Googolplex
Knuckles: Oh no
Anime Labs Vegeta: FUCK YOU!!!!! X4
Mr. Meaty Satan: Invincible Omnipotent Ultra Wopper with a side of fries
Zebedee: 95,000,000,000,000
Super Space Warrior Goku: 150,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Kuralla: 7.7.7.7.7.7.7.7
Future Evil Buu: 76
Future Cell: phone
Future Piccolo Daimaō: 129
Future Hirudegarn: 4 + Super Spirit Bomb
Buffer Roshi: ((((((infinity))^3))^3))^3
Big Green: Let that child alone
Speedy Dub Goku: You Die!!!!
Italian Dub Kenshiro: 9,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999,999
Zen’ō: 0.001
Ssj4 Umigame: 4
Grandpa Happy Hands: 5 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Googolplex
Kami: 888
Baby Cell: 666
Majin Gluu: 420.69
Para Brothers: True Meaty King Burger

[apex_pretador]

Ok it may sound funny, but what are your power levels for: (Given farmer = 5)

- Avg MMA champ
- Mr satan (no gag-force)
- Gorilla
- Lion
- Tiger
- Sabertooth tiger
- Kodiak bear
- Polar bear
- Bear thief
- Kid krillin
- BoDB goku

[kingkaiultraron]

Ok it may sound funny, but what are your power levels for: (Given farmer = 5)

- Avg MMA champ
- Mr satan (no gag-force)
- Gorilla
- Lion
- Tiger
- Sabertooth tiger
- Kodiak bear
- Polar bear
- Bear thief
- Kid krillin
- BoDB goku

Avg MMA champ: 14
Mr satan (no gag-force): 20 (Mr Satan is still pretty strong compared to most humans)
Gorilla: 40
Lion: 25
Tiger: 23
Sabertooth tiger: 28
Kodiak bear: 34
Polar bear: 37
Bear thief: 40
Kid krillin: 30 (Before training with Muten Rōshi 70 after)
BoDB goku: 55
Muten Rōshi: 115
Goku after Muten Rōshis training: 105

[DanielSSJ]

Ok it may sound funny, but what are your power levels for: (Given farmer = 5)

- Avg MMA champ: 6~7
- Mr Satan (no gag-force): 6.66
- Gorilla/Lion/Tiger: 7~8
- Saber tooth tiger: 8
- Kodiak bear: 7
- Bear thief: 7 (he's just smarter and uses weapons)
- Kuririn: 8 (He knocked out that Sabre-Toothed Tiger with a pressure point.)
- Goku: 10

[VegetaSSJBlue]

- Avg MMA champ : 8
- Mr satan (no gag-force) : 10
- Gorilla : 13
- Lion: 12
- Tiger: 12
- Sabertooth tiger: 15
- Kodiak bear: 16
- Polar bear: 16
- Bear thief : 17
- Kid krillin : 20
- BoDB goku : 35

[kingkaiultraron]

More Powah levuls.

Jimmy Neutron the movie dbz

Goku: 69
Perfect Cell 3.0: 9,000
Not Baby: 4 grams of salt
Cheesy Mecha: 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Thomas the tank engine: 1 pound = Small lone of a million dollars
Boom Knuckles: Infinite
Popeye: spinach
Dr Eggman: 7,000,000
Dillon the hacker: 0.3 mega hertz of data
Cool Cat: Boogie Woogie
King Burger: Mr. Meaty
Plankton: ran over
Billz: 420
Grandad: 500,000
Blue Armed Sonic: 90,000,000,000,000
Commandoman: 696,969,696,969
Cheetahmen: action 52
Ratafak plachta: 800,000,000
Genius Turtle: 5,555,555,555
Big The Cat: 9,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Asshole Woody: 60,008
Perfect arnold cell: 8,888,888,888,888
Boom Knuckles: Infinite ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Infinite ^^^^^^^ Infinite
Obama: 7,000

[DanielSSJ]

More Powah levuls.

Jimmy Neutron the movie dbz

Goku: 69
Perfect Cell 3.0: 9,000
Not Baby: 4 grams of salt
Cheesy Mecha: 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Thomas the tank engine: 1 pound = Small lone of a million dollars
Boom Knuckles: Infinite
Popeye: spinach
Dr Eggman: 7,000,000
Dillon the hacker: 0.3 mega hertz of data
Cool Cat: Boogie Woogie
King Burger: Mr. Meaty
Plankton: ran over
Billz: 420
Grandad: 500,000
Blue Armed Sonic: 90,000,000,000,000
Commandoman: 696,969,696,969
Cheetahmen: action 52
Ratafak plachta: 800,000,000
Genius Turtle: 5,555,555,555
Big The Cat: 9,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Asshole Woody: 60,008
Perfect arnold cell: 8,888,888,888,888
Boom Knuckles: Infinite ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Infinite ^^^^^^^ Infinite
Obama: 7,000

The average human body: Water (35 L), Carbon (20 kg), Ammonia (4 L), Lime (1.5 kg), Phosphorous (800 g), Salt (250 g), Saltpeter (100 g), Sulfur (80 g), Fluorine (7.5 g), Iron (5 g), Silicon (3 g) and trace amounts fifteen other elements.

[kingkaiultraron]

Multipliers

Oozaru: X10
Ssj: X50
Ssj G2: Ssj X1.5
Ssj G3: Ssj X1.7
Ssj2: Ssj X2
Ssj3: Ssj2 X4
Golden Oozaru: Oozaru X50
Ssj4: Ssj3 X10
Ssjg: ???
Ssjgss or SsjB: Ssjg X50
LSsj: Ssj X2
Lssj Oozaru: Oozaru X100

[VegetaSSJBlue]

Multipliers

Oozaru: X10

Ssj: X50

Ssj G2: Ssj X1.5

Ssj G3: Ssj X2

Ssj2: Ssj X4

Ssj3: Ssj2 X2

Ssj4: Ssj3 X20

Ssjg: Ssj X10,000

Ssjgss: Ssjg X50

[kingkaiultraron]

Magic Roundabout (Doogal) Power Levels

Dylan: 15
Skeletons: 7 each
Fused Skeleton: 55
Zebedee: 65
Zeebad: 65
Doogal: 3
Train: 40
Ermintrude: 11
Brian: 0.0005
Soldier Sam: 11
Florence: 1
Moose: 13

Atom Ant groovy

Mouths: 4 each
Atom Ant: 9,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Elephant: 12
Mecha dino: 100
Crooks: 4 each
Tank: 70
Bombs: 200
Bomb man: 1,000

[RandomGuy96]

If high battle power is required to sense Beerus and Whis' ki.Then Base Vegeta and Goku is stronger than SSJ3 Goku.

Piccolo could sense Kaioshin's ki, and he had godly ki. Sensing god ki is about more than just raw strength. Having a high power level = sensing god ki doesn't even make sense anyway. Whis seemed to be referring to Goku and Vegeta transitioning into using godly ki, not just getting a higher power level.

So, I guess less in terms of numbers and more in terms of comparison to past Cell/Buu saga characters, what do you guys think about the U6 arc saiyans' base and SSJ1?
So...where are they, then? Is base Vegeta stronger than SSJ Gohan, since Gohan knocked Tagoma around but Vegeta was able to completely ONE-PAAAAWNCH him? Or was that just that he was already weakened from fighting Gohan, or something? And if base Vegeta is stronger, is that because his training's come so far that he's above a low-end FPSSJ, or is it more that Gohan had degraded so much, or sort of a bit of both? Piccolo only seemed a little ahead of base Gohan in their sparring much, but maybe he wasn't going all-out since it was training, but...aah, I don't know.

I'll give my usual stump speech...

Some people still stick to the two base theory, i.e. "they can turn god ki on and off like a switch". I do not know if there was any additional evidence for that in the manga, but in the anime it's pretty much bunk. Not enough evidence. So I think they just have one base level.

How strong is that base level? Well, base Goku fought evenly with true form, post-training Freeza, who was much stronger than 1st form Freeza, who crushed FPSSJ Gohan with ease. So at least that strong. Some people think that their base forms are nearly as strong as their god forms, based on the end of the Beerus fight. I do not think that for one simple reason: if that were true, than their Super Saiyan forms would be stronger than Beerus. SS is evidently still a x50 multiplier (see: the Cabba fight), and SSG Goku was putting up a decent fight against ~10% Beerus; if his base was nearly as strong as his SSG, and he stacked a x50 boost on top of that, he'd far exceed Beerus's strength without even needing SSB, to say nothing of KK x10 stacked on top of it! So I just think their base forms are at some level way above their previous bases but way below any god tier, thanks to Whis's training. How strong exactly? There's two very clear pieces of evidence in this regard:

-Piccolo is heavily implied to be weaker than Mr. Buu, yet is still not dimensions below final form Frost in their battle. He had no chance in a regular battle, but he wasn't so much weaker that Frost could just swat him like a fly or tank his SBC, which he only spent ~3 minutes charging. Granted, Frost was exhausted at the time, but he was still strong enough that Vegeta had to use SS to win, so he should at least be around as strong as Goku/Vegeta's base if not stronger.

-The Uub epilogue, which is still canon for Z, sets a hard limit: base Goku is noticeably weaker than a fully enraged Uub; he gets pushed back quickly in a short fight despite the boy completely lacking any fighting skill. He later says Uub is "exactly as amazing as I thought [he was going to be]", meaning Pure Buu level. So, after whatever training he does post-tournament, base Goku is still considerably weaker than his SS3 self from the Buu arc.

I place their base forms between SS2 and SS3 level (by Buu arc standards) during the tournament, leaving room for them to get to low SS3 tier by the Uub epilogue. Botamo, first form Frost, and Piccolo are slightly below them, at various levels of SS2-tier (say, Piccolo is Majin Vegeta, Frost is 25th Budokai Gohan, and Botamo is Dabra). Base Cabba and Assault Form Frost are on par with or slightly above them (the most comparable character would be Fat Buu after his second power-up, when SS3 Goku could dominate him but SS2 Goku + SS2 Vegeta + SS2 Gohan were stated to be useless against him). Final Form Frost is well above their base forms, but nowhere near their Super Saiyan forms (and way closer to their bases than their Super Saiyans, as Piccolo could still potentially win, and I doubt the beating he got from Goku drained that much of his power). All of the above are weaker than Mr. Buu, who was moderately below Pure Buu/SS3 Goku back in the Buu arc. The only thing I'm not sure about is Super Saiyan. The Cabba fight seems to imply that it still is just fifty times stronger than their base forms, though it's a bit confusing because the ending of that fight could imply that Cabba is a weakling and Veggie was screwing around with him the whole time. But taken at face value, it would make Magetta damn strong, probably stronger than anyone in the Buu arc except maybe Super Vegetto. Wouldn't help him against certain special techniques though.

[apex_pretador]

-The Uub epilogue, which is still canon for Z, sets a hard limit: base Goku is noticeably weaker than a fully enraged Uub; he gets pushed back quickly in a short fight despite the boy completely lacking any fighting skill. He later says Uub is "exactly as amazing as I thought [he was going to be]", meaning Pure Buu level. So, after whatever training he does post-tournament, base Goku is still considerably weaker than his SS3 self from the Buu arc.

Yeah, a heavily suppressed goku, who was barely trying. That means nothing when goku knows how to suppress ki and was just playing around.