Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[Desassina]

Hugo Boss, I won't forget your reply, but let me just comment this.

In the manga, ssbfp is ssb x10 because of merged zamasu being 10 times stronger than a ssb, so the God x10 doesn't work neither in that case.

How do you know that merged Zamasu is 10 times stronger than SSJB? I don't remember that, but I know that SSJ Goku Black went from losing against SSJB Vegeta to topping him with SSJR, the latter and Blue most likely being less than full power. Then, with Vegeta closer to him with SSJG, both his full power hits and Goku's complete SSJB were able to match merged Zamasu. I would put them like this:

Super Saiyan 2 Trunks = 312.5
God-like SSJ Goku Black = 400

Super Saiyan God Vegeta = 500
Vanilla SSJ Blue Vegeta = 1'000

Super Saiyan Rosé Black = 2'500
Complete SSJ Blue Goku = 5'000

Merged Zamasu = 10'000
Vanilla SSJB Vegetto = 50'000

I decided to keep the characters within range of each other with 2 or 5 times the power level so that they could fight and change forms. Note: vanilla SSJB is within a range when it could be lower or higher.

[p-hyvo]

Hugo Boss, I won't forget your reply, but let me just comment this.

In the manga, ssbfp is ssb x10 because of merged zamasu being 10 times stronger than a ssb, so the God x10 doesn't work neither in that case.

How do you know that merged Zamasu is 10 times stronger than SSJB? I don't remember that, but I know that SSJ Goku Black went from losing against SSJB Vegeta to topping him with SSJR, the latter and Blue most likely being less than full power. Then, with Vegeta closer to him with SSJG, both his full power hits and Goku's complete SSJB were able to match merged Zamasu. I would put them like this:

Super Saiyan 2 Trunks = 312.5
God-like SSJ Goku Black = 400

Super Saiyan God Vegeta = 500
Vanilla SSJ Blue Vegeta = 1'000

Super Saiyan Rosé Black = 2'500
Complete SSJ Blue Goku = 5'000

Merged Zamasu = 10'000
Vanilla SSJB Vegetto = 50'000

I decided to keep the characters within range of each other with 2 or 5 times the power level so that they could fight and change forms. Note: vanilla SSJB is within a range when it could be lower or higher.

Toriyama said that merged zamasu is 10 times stronger than a ssb in an interview.
Initially, he wanted him to be twice as strong as he is in the anime, but toyotaro changed the thing making merged zamasu 10 times stronger than a ssb in the manga.
Also, base vegetto in the manga is able to chop off one of m.zamasu's arms, surprising him and making him think that vegetto is another transformation from Goku.
That makes base vegetto (manga)> ssb Goku by a good amount, let's say that base vegetto is ssb x2 in the dbs manga.

Also, regaining black Goku , the manga is like this :
Base black Goku >ssj3 Goku, also his base is a sort of beyond God but weaker cause he isn't used to the body

Then, black Goku adapts and unlocks ssj, that is intact a ssj chou (same form that Goku used against bit in the manga and against beerus in the anime)

Ssj chou vegeta beats up ssj chou black Goku

Black Goku gets a zenkai, making him able to fight on par with ssb vegeta

Vegeta goes back in time and trains : now, his ssg is in par with black's rosè state

Goku didn't train, so by logic he should be a lot weaker than vegeta. Anyway, toyotaro is a terrible writer and Goku is magically as strong as vegeta against merged zamasu

If I have to scale, i'd say :
Goku = vegeta 1
Ssj3 400
Ssj chou 2'000'000
God 4'000'000
Ssb 20'000'000

Mirai trunks 1,05
Ssj2+ 525

Black Goku, initial 640
Black Goku, full power beyond God 32'000
Black Goku, ssj chou 1'600'000
Zenkai 19'200'000
Black Goku, rosè 192'000'000

Vegeta , trained 50
God 200'000'000
Ssb 1'000'000'000

Merged zamasu 10'000'000'000
Enraged, against Goku 12'500'000'000

Vegetto 2'000'000'000
Ssb 40'000'000'000'000'000 (yes, vegetto is a fucking monster)

Beerus 35'000'000'000'000'000

Goku, zenkai 60
Ssb. 1'200'000'000
Ssbfp 12'000'000'000

[Desassina]

As promised:

If I were to use one of the official multipliers, I would try to stick with the other given numbers as well, for consistency, even if this RPG formula particularly has no meaning whatsoever.

Spoiler:

Super Saiyan - 50-fold increase over Base
Super Saiyan 2 - 2-fold increase over Super Saiyan
Super Saiyan 3 - 4-fold increase over Super Saiyan 2

The rest would be something like this:

Spoiler:

Super Saiyan God - 50-fold increase over Super Saiyan
Super Saiyan Blue - 50-fold increase over Super Saiyan God

The variations of Super Saiyan used in the Cell Arc, I personally have like this:

Spoiler:

Super Saiyan “Grade 2” - 2-fold increase over Super Saiyan
Super Saiyan “Grade 3” - 4-fold increase over Super Saiyan “Grade 2”

What I like about your numbers is that they consider the same base transformation and many branches due to Grade II being the same as SSJ2 with their stat differences as Grade III dramatically increases their power with a hindrance. They came at different instances in the power creep, so they're not necessarily on the same level, because SSJ can be either vanilla or full power. I hoped that Dragon Ball allowed someone to use any form for their atributes instead of linear power. We saw a glimpse of that in Ultra Instincts, but the latter is definitely higher than Blue...

[Hugo Boss]

About Toriyama saying Merged Zamas is 10 times stronger than Super Saiyan Blue. Well, he never said that.

[Grand Marshal 1]

So, may I also showcase my multipliers for forms.

(of course only the basic and main forms)

Super Saiyan (Grade 1 and Grade 4) = 50×Base
Super Saiyan Grade 2 = 150×Base
Super Saiyan Grade 3 = 500×Base

Super Saiyan 2 = 100×Base

Super Saiyan 3 = 400×Base

Super Saiyan 4 = 4,000×Base

Super Saiyan God = 12,500×Base

Super Saiyan Blue = 62,500×Base

[Soldierofficial]

Battle against Freeza - Power Levels

Freeza: 350,000
-- Full Power: 530,000

Vegeta: 480,000
Krillin: 125,000

Gohan: 200,000
-- Enraged: 1,000,000

Freeza (Second Form): 1,050,000
-- Power Up (vs Gohan): 1,300,000
-- Full Power: 1,600,000

Piccolo: 200,000
-- Without Weighted Clothes (Unseen): 250,000
-- Merged With Nail: 1,350,000
-- Without Weighted Clothes: 1,700,000

Gohan (Post Zenkai): 450,000
-- Enraged: 1,800,000
-- Masenko: 2,250,000

Freeza (Third Form): 2,400,000

Vegeta (Post Zenkai): 3,600,000
-- Planet Buster: 4,800,000

Freeza (Final Form): 4,000,000
-- Power Up (vs Vegeta): 6,000,000
-- Without Hands: 8,000,000
-- 50%: 175,000,000
-- 70%: 245,000,000
-- 100%: 350,000,000

Goku (Post Zenkai): 6,000,000
-- Full Power: 7,500,000
-- Kaioken x10: 75,000,000
-- Kaioken x20: 150,000,000
-- Kamehameha: 187,500,000
-- Genkidama: 250,000,000
-- Super Saiyan: 375,000,000

[Noah]

Goku pretty much told him that match was too bad for him, Goten had no chance. He didn’t have a chance when he was stronger as a kid, let alone at that point. I like the idea that Boo got asleep in the middle of the fight and that counted to Goten’s favor.

What? Where the heck was even implied that Goten won against Boo in the 28th Tenkaichi Budokai? As Boo is Satan trump card to wipe the floor with everybody else justo to "lose" to him on the finals, remaining as the Champion.

[p-hyvo]

Goku pretty much told him that match was too bad for him, Goten had no chance. He didn’t have a chance when he was stronger as a kid, let alone at that point. I like the idea that Boo got asleep in the middle of the fight and that counted to Goten’s favor.

What? Where the heck was even implied that Goten won against Boo in the 28th Tenkaichi Budokai? As Boo is Satan trump card to wipe the floor with everybody else justo to "lose" to him on the finals, remaining as the Champion.

In the anime, we see how the tournament went and at the second round we see goten vs pan. That implies that somehow goten won against buu

[Soldierofficial]

Goku pretty much told him that match was too bad for him, Goten had no chance. He didn’t have a chance when he was stronger as a kid, let alone at that point. I like the idea that Boo got asleep in the middle of the fight and that counted to Goten’s favor.

What? Where the heck was even implied that Goten won against Boo in the 28th Tenkaichi Budokai? As Boo is Satan trump card to wipe the floor with everybody else justo to "lose" to him on the finals, remaining as the Champion.

In the anime, we see how the tournament went and at the second round we see goten vs pan. That implies that somehow goten won against buu

That's filler.

[p-hyvo]

What? Where the heck was even implied that Goten won against Boo in the 28th Tenkaichi Budokai? As Boo is Satan trump card to wipe the floor with everybody else justo to "lose" to him on the finals, remaining as the Champion.

In the anime, we see how the tournament went and at the second round we see goten vs pan. That implies that somehow goten won against buu

That's filler.

So? It matters in gt scaling.
Gt follows the classic anime and movies, not the manga

[Grand Marshal 1]

I just learned that in DBFighterZ, when AGAINST blue Vegito, Jiren says that he is facing an opponent of similar strength to his.

Not-Canon yeah, but this further proves personally my point, that MUI and Blue fusion are in the same level. I have SFP/LB Jiren slightly below though. He could mean than his FP is comparable to Bleu fusion, but that would complicate the things a bit and MUI shouldn't have that much of an advantage over Blue Fusion, even with a rage boost.

[p-hyvo]

I just learned that in DBFighterZ, when AGAINST blue Vegito, Jiren says that he is facing an opponent of similar strength to his.

Not-Canon yeah, but this further proves personally my point, that MUI and Blue fusion are in the same level. I have SFP/LB Jiren slightly below though. He could mean than his FP is comparable to Bleu fusion, but that would complicate the things a bit and MUI shouldn't have that much of an advantage over Blue Fusion, even with a rage boost.

Heroes straight contraddicts that.
In dbh, blue fusion>>mui

Still not canon, but contraddicts fighterz

[Koitsukai]

How strong would you say GT Super Gogeta would be?

Stronger than SS4 Goku?
Stronger than Omega Shenron without absorbing the DB?
Stronger than Ohzaru Vegeta Baby?

How about in Super? how would he fare against DBS characters?

[Kenneth La Torre]

I just learned that in DBFighterZ, when AGAINST blue Vegito, Jiren says that he is facing an opponent of similar strength to his.

Not-Canon yeah, but this further proves personally my point, that MUI and Blue fusion are in the same level. I have SFP/LB Jiren slightly below though. He could mean than his FP is comparable to Bleu fusion, but that would complicate the things a bit and MUI shouldn't have that much of an advantage over Blue Fusion, even with a rage boost.

Heroes straight contraddicts that.
In dbh, blue fusion>>mui

Still not canon, but contraddicts fighterz

actually, heroes had UI > fusion. now depending on how current event folds, heroes will likely contradict itself by having fusion > UI in this arc.

tho i dont know why people even beging to argue by using heroes, the biggest walking contradiction when it comes to power scaling.

[Kenneth La Torre]

How strong would you say GT Super Gogeta would be?

Stronger than SS4 Goku?
Stronger than Omega Shenron without absorbing the DB?
Stronger than Ohzaru Vegeta Baby?

How about in Super? how would he fare against DBS characters?

IF... the scaling from the broly movie applies to GT gogeta, then GT super gogeta beats omega shenron, but if it doesnt, then we have to go with the GT perfect files that state that ssj4 gogeta is dozens of times stronger than a regular ssj4, which means GT super gogeta would probably not even scale to a regular ssj4.

we dont know how GT ssj4 gogeta compares to DBS characters, but based on feats and scaling, he is probably not even BoG ssg goku level.
but this is just guessing

[p-hyvo]

I just learned that in DBFighterZ, when AGAINST blue Vegito, Jiren says that he is facing an opponent of similar strength to his.

Not-Canon yeah, but this further proves personally my point, that MUI and Blue fusion are in the same level. I have SFP/LB Jiren slightly below though. He could mean than his FP is comparable to Bleu fusion, but that would complicate the things a bit and MUI shouldn't have that much of an advantage over Blue Fusion, even with a rage boost.

Heroes straight contraddicts that.
In dbh, blue fusion>>mui

Still not canon, but contraddicts fighterz

actually, heroes had UI > fusion. now depending on how current event folds, heroes will likely contradict itself by having fusion > UI in this arc.

tho i dont know why people even beging to argue by using heroes, the biggest walking contradiction when it comes to power scaling.

Really, In heroes we have :

World mission : ssb potara fusion>mui
Xeon goku beats dbs goku, forces him to go ui and, as a ssj4 dominates. That results in dbs goku and vegeta fusing into vegeth to fight back

Prison planet arc : ssb and ssj4 vegeth wrecks kamba, ui goku faced and won against an heavy injured kamba and nothing implies that hi Gorky could have won against a fullpower kamba too (basing my judge in the videogame, not mention the anime or anything because the game has the best scaling system)

[Hugo Boss]

SS Gogeta from Dragon Ball GT would probably be stronger than SS Gogeta from Dragon Ball Super, so he might be able to rival Omega Shenron.

[Grand Marshal 1]

For me, SS Gogeta wouldn't be able to rival Yi Xing Long at his normal state. As a SS2 he would. This implies his inferiority to a SS4. As a SS3 he would perform the same as SS4 Goku and Vegeta, or UFP SS4 Goku. This is the reason that he used SS4 against Super Yi Xing Long. It was needed, but the form itself provided a boost great enough to allow for a big increase in power, despite the previous form still not being enough.

SS4 Gogeta is by logic several times stronger than Super Yi Xing Long and by definition tens/dozens of times stronger to a normal SS4.

[Shintoki]

SS4 Gogeta was said to be dozens of times stronger than an SS4 whom itself was compared to SS vegito. combine that with the filler/films scaling and you pretty much have a solid case that SS4 gogeta > beerus (universal?)

[p-hyvo]

SS4 Gogeta was said to be dozens of times stronger than an SS4 whom itself was compared to SS vegito. combine that with the filler/films scaling and you pretty much have a solid case that SS4 gogeta > beerus (universal?)

Well yes, but actually no.
Ok, he's universal, no doubt and no argue, but he's not beerus level.
Feats wise, all the strongest characters in dbs are stronger than anyone in gt.
I mean, people like jiren , kefla and god toppo shakes an infinite space, no one in gt can really replicate that counting that not omega nor gogeta even shook the normal universe, which isn't infinite.
Not saying they can't, if base goku could in s17 arc they definitely can, but still that's far from shaking something infinite by various degrees.
Imo beerus>>ssbE vegeta >=god toppo>>>>ssj2b skefla >uio1 goku>= suppressed jiren >>>>everyone in gt

Personally, I put omega shenron between merged zamasu halo and merged zamasu corrupted, and I have ssj4 gogeta = ssb vegeth x3
Like :
Gogeta 180
Vegeth 60
Merged zamasu, corrupted 50
Omega 14
Ssj4s 1

Obviously is just an opinion of mine. You are free to dissent