Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by FeatsofPower » Sun Jul 31, 2022 12:45 am

Kaboom wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 12:42 am
FeatsofPower wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 12:40 amWhat if we could make the most consistent list ever though, wouldn't that be cool and fun?
No, it sounds overly rigid, creatively limiting, and not at all fun.
Yeah, I'm not about that either. It should be fun and exciting, encouraging each other to push beyond the status quo and dig deeper into the material. It should be fun and constructively done, not abusive.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by FeatsofPower » Sun Jul 31, 2022 1:38 am

Super Saiyan Vegeta 1,000
Android 20 (Post Humans) 835
Android 20 (Post 2 Piccolos) 775
Piccolo 750
Android 20 (Post Piccolo) 625
Android 20 (Post Vegeta's Blast) 475
Android 20 (Post Yamcha) 405
Android 20 375
Android 19 350
Vegeta 200
Piccolo 150
Gohan 100
Kuririn 60
Tien 50
Yamcha 30

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by FeatsofPower » Sun Jul 31, 2022 1:40 am

FeatsofPower wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 1:38 am Super Saiyan Vegeta 1,000
Android 20 (Post Humans) 835
Android 20 (Post 2 Piccolos) 775
Piccolo 750
Android 20 (Post Piccolo) 625
Android 20 (Post Vegeta's Blast) 475
Android 20 (Post Yamcha) 405
Android 20 375
Android 19 350
Vegeta 200
Piccolo 150
Gohan 90
Kuririn 75
Tien 60

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Sun Jul 31, 2022 1:47 am

FeatsofPower wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 12:40 am That is a good point, but Trunks indicates that it wouldn't make a difference regardless of if Freeza did or not. He declared that he'd defeat Freeza in an instant and encouraged him to power up. Trunks should be plenty qualified to make such boastful claims considering Gohan was his master. He even was pretty close with what he expected out of Goku and that is a power beyond both he and Gohan.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by DanielSSJ » Sun Jul 31, 2022 2:25 am

GreatSaiyaman123 wrote: Sat Jul 30, 2022 4:39 pm How strong are the Z Fighters by the time of Freeza and Cold’s arrival?
I haven't done a full battle power list in a while, I suppose I could ballpark it.

Chaozu - 15,000
Yamcha - 30,000
Tenshinhan - 54,000
Kuririn - 100,000

(Using the gains Goku made on Kaio's Planet as a baseline, this is where everyone shakes out.

Chaozu's always been the weakest of the Earthlings, and generally doesn't seem as geared toward cultivating raw power as the rest of the gang is, so he's falling further and behind.

Yamcha was the first to be bright back to life and therfore spent the least amount of time on Kaio's Planet, so a pretty big gap is starting to open up between him and Tenshinhan, and it'll keep getting bigger and bigger from here on out.

Kuririn is still coasting off of his unleashed dormant power and is leading the pack by a huge margin, and Ten won't start closing the gap until three years later. A nice rounded 100k seems appropriate enough for 1 and 2/3rds of a year of light training.)

Gohan - 500,000
Piccolo - 3,200,000
Vegeta - 3,000,000

(Gohan's BP is just a total guess on my part, I'd have I actually lock down how strong he ultimately gets by the end of Namek before I commit to a number here. Basically, I think he's about the same as he was at the end of the Freeza fight, maybe a little weaker if he hadn't been keeping up with his training at all.

Piccolo's starting to feel the benefit of having the combined potential of two Warrior Namekians and is getting real close to pulling ahead of the base form Saiyans. He might not be up there with Goku and Trunks just yet, but I think it plausible that he's already overtaken Vegeta, if only slightly.)
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Mireya » Sun Jul 31, 2022 5:04 am

No way to accurately tell. Maybe the closest official estimation is Kuririn's 75k PL stated in the V-jump, and noted to be still rising... so it's not far-fetched at all to think he was at least 100,000 during Trunks' arrival. He's the strongest human, yeah, but I don't think the gap should be absurd. He still calls Tenshinhan and Yamcha's chi as huge chis 3 years later and there isn't a very clear distinction between them. Ofc he's considerably ahead, I just don't think they are worlds apart. So Tenshinhan could be a 60,000, maybe, and Yamcha a 40,000 (accounting for the fact Tenshinhan stayed in Kaio's planet for longer).


And that's a lowball estimation to many ppl. There's a solid logic for Kuririn to be in the low hundreds of thousands vs Freeza to make sense of Vegeta saying he's helpful against 1st form Freeza. I don't know, myself.

In the battle vs the androids, there's the point that Tenshinhan reacted to Gero's eye laser in a similar time frame to base Goku... and Goku could easily parry initial final form Freeza's death beans, so fast even >>> 1,000,000 Piccolo couldn't see. So if Goku felt the need to dodge them, and Tenshinhan could react to it, it's possible he's way ahead that post-Nail Piccolo. But that's for the androids saga, 3 years later. It may still coincide with my earlier estimation of him being 60,000 3 years earlier. Or maybe not. It'd be a very crazy jump, huh?


But that's all the points I can raise regarding their standing. There's also the more high ball estimations for their androids saga which accounts for Gero believing that absorbing Tenshinhan and Kuririn would help vs SSj Vegeta, which could potentially bring them to the tens of millions. But again, that's also in the androids saga, 3 years later.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Mireya » Sun Jul 31, 2022 5:48 am

FeatsofPower wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 1:38 am Super Saiyan Vegeta 1,000
Android 20 (Post Humans) 835
Android 20 (Post 2 Piccolos) 775
Piccolo 750
Android 20 (Post Piccolo) 625
Android 20 (Post Vegeta's Blast) 475
Android 20 (Post Yamcha) 405
Android 20 375
Android 19 350
Vegeta 200
Piccolo 150
Gohan 100
Kuririn 60
Tien 50
Yamcha 30
Is Android 20 expecting Vegeta to be what?

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by FeatsofPower » Sun Jul 31, 2022 8:09 am

Mireya wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 5:48 am
FeatsofPower wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 1:38 am Super Saiyan Vegeta 1,000
Android 20 (Post Humans) 835
Android 20 (Post 2 Piccolos) 775
Piccolo 750
Android 20 (Post Piccolo) 625
Android 20 (Post Vegeta's Blast) 475
Android 20 (Post Yamcha) 405
Android 20 375
Android 19 350
Vegeta 200
Piccolo 150
Gohan 100
Kuririn 60
Tien 50
Yamcha 30
Is Android 20 expecting Vegeta to be what?
I generally go with Piccolo = Expected Vegeta.

I don't like 19 (Post) > 20 (Post Vegeta's Blast) though, so even though I'm a bit happier with where 20's expected powers end up being, it probably isn't worth the cost. Having 19 at 50% of Vegeta is already low enough, to make him that much lower will break a lot of scaling in other sagas.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by GreatSaiyaman123 » Sun Jul 31, 2022 11:34 am

Kaboom wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 12:42 am No, it sounds overly rigid, creatively limiting, and not at all fun.
I think that’s a better description of how strictly sticking to the guidebooks sounds like. Why not a middle ground?
Mireya wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 5:04 am
In the battle vs the androids, there's the point that Tenshinhan reacted to Gero's eye laser in a similar time frame to base Goku... and Goku could easily parry initial final form Freeza's death beans, so fast even >>> 1,000,000 Piccolo couldn't see. So if Goku felt the need to dodge them, and Tenshinhan could react to it, it's possible he's way ahead that post-Nail Piccolo. But that's for the androids saga, 3 years later. It may still coincide with my earlier estimation of him being 60,000 3 years earlier. Or maybe not. It'd be a very crazy jump, huh?
I always thought it made no sense for the humans to get tens of times stronger while Goku couldn’t even double his power. But I don’t think anybody wants to give that sort of small improvement to them, and training gains never made sense anyways. Who knows what the humans were up to.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by DanielSSJ » Sun Jul 31, 2022 1:10 pm

GreatSaiyaman123 wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 11:34 am I always thought it made no sense for the humans to get tens of times stronger while Goku couldn’t even double his power. But I don’t think anybody wants to give that sort of small improvement to them, and training gains never made sense anyways. Who knows what the humans were up to.
Who knows, maybe they finally decided to give that pot of poison Karin has stashed up in his tower a taste.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by FeatsofPower » Sun Jul 31, 2022 1:46 pm

I actually have Tien very close to Base Sick Goku.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Mireya » Sun Jul 31, 2022 2:16 pm

I remember my last list rolled with 3,000,000 for Ten and 4,000,000 for Kuririn in the androids saga.

As for the Shin Kikoho, I think it can be interpreted any way.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by FeatsofPower » Sun Jul 31, 2022 3:27 pm

Mireya wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 2:16 pm I remember my last list rolled with 3,000,000 for Ten and 4,000,000 for Kuririn in the androids saga.

As for the Shin Kikoho, I think it can be interpreted any way.

One of the issues I ran into with that is that Yamcha is a good source of energy for 20. So if Yamcha is boosting 20 up by less than 1%, it seems like that wouldn't be the case.

The combined might of Gohan, Kuririn, and Tien is supposed to put Android 20 above Vegeta. With the humans this low in power, that's going to be extremely problematic.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Mireya » Sun Jul 31, 2022 5:05 pm

FeatsofPower wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 3:27 pm
Mireya wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 2:16 pm I remember my last list rolled with 3,000,000 for Ten and 4,000,000 for Kuririn in the androids saga.

As for the Shin Kikoho, I think it can be interpreted any way.

One of the issues I ran into with that is that Yamcha is a good source of energy for 20. So if Yamcha is boosting 20 up by less than 1%, it seems like that wouldn't be the case.

The combined might of Gohan, Kuririn, and Tien is supposed to put Android 20 above Vegeta. With the humans this low in power, that's going to be extremely problematic.
You have to remember though the last power Gero had registered as the highest one, was Oozaru Vegeta, who was significantly below 180,000. If someone is brandishing a power in the millions, it's bound to grab his attention and interest.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by FeatsofPower » Sun Jul 31, 2022 5:34 pm

Mireya wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 5:05 pm
FeatsofPower wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 3:27 pm
Mireya wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 2:16 pm I remember my last list rolled with 3,000,000 for Ten and 4,000,000 for Kuririn in the androids saga.

As for the Shin Kikoho, I think it can be interpreted any way.

One of the issues I ran into with that is that Yamcha is a good source of energy for 20. So if Yamcha is boosting 20 up by less than 1%, it seems like that wouldn't be the case.

The combined might of Gohan, Kuririn, and Tien is supposed to put Android 20 above Vegeta. With the humans this low in power, that's going to be extremely problematic.
You have to remember though the last power Gero had registered as the highest one, was Oozaru Vegeta, who was significantly below 180,000. If someone is brandishing a power in the millions, it's bound to grab his attention and interest.

Sure, but Gero makes multiple statements implying that the humans power will significantly power him up, allowing him to contend with a power way above his own, one he is not rivaling.

If the humans are only in the low millions, how does Gero expect to be able to win against Vegeta with their power added to his own?

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by LightBing » Sun Jul 31, 2022 6:04 pm

My logic for this part is:

- Humans always kept up with Goku.
- Dr.Gero, based on his calculations, thinks Yamcha is Goku.
- Dr.Gero values the humans powers to help defeat Piccolo.

Fair to say Dr.Gero didn't miscalculate Goku's potential growth by a significant margin. Super Saiyan is the outliner and the narrative supports this.

I don't have numbers but I usually put the Androids below Freeza to start, only surpassing him after eating some energy. With that if the humans are moderately weaker than Base Goku, they would still provide a good power source.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Sun Jul 31, 2022 6:45 pm

LightBing wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 6:04 pm My logic for this part is:
- Humans always kept up with Goku.
Did they? Goku was always considerably stronger than them every arc. The closest everyone got was Krilin during the 21st TB and Tenshinhan during the 22nd TB.
Last edited by ZombieVito on Sun Jul 31, 2022 7:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Mireya » Sun Jul 31, 2022 7:33 pm

FeatsofPower wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 5:34 pm
Mireya wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 5:05 pm
FeatsofPower wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 3:27 pm


One of the issues I ran into with that is that Yamcha is a good source of energy for 20. So if Yamcha is boosting 20 up by less than 1%, it seems like that wouldn't be the case.

The combined might of Gohan, Kuririn, and Tien is supposed to put Android 20 above Vegeta. With the humans this low in power, that's going to be extremely problematic.
You have to remember though the last power Gero had registered as the highest one, was Oozaru Vegeta, who was significantly below 180,000. If someone is brandishing a power in the millions, it's bound to grab his attention and interest.

Sure, but Gero makes multiple statements implying that the humans power will significantly power him up, allowing him to contend with a power way above his own, one he is not rivaling.

If the humans are only in the low millions, how does Gero expect to be able to win against Vegeta with their power added to his own?
It's strange either way because Gero didn't expect the same kind of growth from Goku. If Yamcha were already in the tens of millions, it'd seem weird for Gero to, when knowing it was probably Yamcha, not to even bat an eye... I mean, Goku wouldn't have the same kind of growth due to age, but Yamcha having a 40,000,000 BP is like a "ok, he'll be a good source of energy" and they aren't even creeped out? Doesn't seem likely. Unless there's something else going with their absorptions and it's a little more complex than simply adding the other's power to their one in a simple sum of power levels.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by FeatsofPower » Sun Jul 31, 2022 9:14 pm

Mireya wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 7:33 pm
FeatsofPower wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 5:34 pm
Mireya wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 5:05 pm You have to remember though the last power Gero had registered as the highest one, was Oozaru Vegeta, who was significantly below 180,000. If someone is brandishing a power in the millions, it's bound to grab his attention and interest.

Sure, but Gero makes multiple statements implying that the humans power will significantly power him up, allowing him to contend with a power way above his own, one he is not rivaling.

If the humans are only in the low millions, how does Gero expect to be able to win against Vegeta with their power added to his own?
It's strange either way because Gero didn't expect the same kind of growth from Goku. If Yamcha were already in the tens of millions, it'd seem weird for Gero to, when knowing it was probably Yamcha, not to even bat an eye... I mean, Goku wouldn't have the same kind of growth due to age, but Yamcha having a 40,000,000 BP is like a "ok, he'll be a good source of energy" and they aren't even creeped out? Doesn't seem likely. Unless there's something else going with their absorptions and it's a little more complex than simply adding the other's power to their one in a simple sum of power levels.
It doesn't appear the case, otherwise, Piccolo's power via absorption should have catapulted Gero to beyond Vegeta. Vegeta even says they absorb energy and add it to their own.

What kind of ratio are you talking. For every 1 power level, they get 10? If that was the case, they'd absorb humans all day and get mega powerful.

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by LightBing » Mon Aug 01, 2022 7:34 am

ZombieVito wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 6:45 pm
LightBing wrote: Sun Jul 31, 2022 6:04 pm My logic for this part is:
- Humans always kept up with Goku.
Did they? Goku was always considerably stronger than them every arc. The closest everyone got was Krilin during the 21st TB and Tenshinhan during the 22nd TB.
I meant in the following arc.
Humans always caught up to what Goku was before, fair to assume that following the trend they got massive power ups, although they still are off from Goku.

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